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By: GoblinLackeyIsBlue, Richie
Oct 13 2009 1:12am
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Recently I’ve been tweaking around with random concepts in this lack luster meta. The boredom has driven me to explore the artist formerly known as dredge. Now, I’m quite familiar with dredge as I have piloted the deck in vintage a couple of times and I have to say, some of these top 8 lists make me question if people really understand why certain cards are in the deck. Hopefully I can clear up some of the questions and give you a current twist I’ve placed on the deck.       

Now, before I begin breaking down dredge, here is a quick lecture on how the deck works. Using Bazaar of Baghdad in combination with the mechanic dredge enables you to dump your entire library into the graveyard. Cards like Breakthrough, Careful Study, and Cabal Therapy are fast discard outlets to dump dredge cards into the yard. Once you begin dredging, your goal is to net Narcomoeba and dump Ichorid into the yard’s pile. Finally you flash back Dread Return resurrecting Flame-Kin Zealot from the yard with the combination of Bridge From Below triggering, and thus you swing in for the win!

There are many cards though that some people may not understand, and others that have no business in the deck in this humble author’s opinion. (Those who know me will promptly say “Humble? Child please.”)

Here are two lists that stem from Ichorid decks in vintage. This one finished 4-0, and was piloted by Dunkle_Stille:

 

This next one is another 4-0 list piloted by Tilt1983:
 
Manaless Ichorid
Piloted by Tilt1983
Creatures
4 Dryad Arbor
2 Cephalid Sage
2 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
32 cards

Other Spells
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dread Return
4 Serum Powder
20 cards
 
Lands
4 Gemstone Mine
4 cards

Ichorid
 
 

There are major differences in these deck lists even though they appear nearly identical in the build. Dunkle’s list is closely related more to Mana Ichorid. Mana Ichorid is a vintage dredge list that relies more on a combo engine rather than Ichorid beats. The list is better against agro builds which can use Wasteland and control magic to stop Bazaar of Baghdad ( BoB ). It is more consistent with its combo as it has tools to just flat out win on any given turn, but at times may lack in the aggressive department and can ultimately lose the game with a lackluster dredge.

Tilt’s list is more related to Manaless Ichorid. This deck uses less mana sources and relies heavily on its ability to mulligan aggressively into a hand with Bazaar of Baghdad by using Serum Powder. The game against control vastly improves as the deck is more aggressive than combo with the majority of threats being unable to be countered. Dread Return and Cabal Therapy in combination with Dryad Arbor enable an ability to generate more tokens but take away from consistency of comboing. This is more of an aggressive deck with a combo back bone.

Each deck also has certain types of hate that can shine through. Manaless Ichorid is much more vulnerable to Leyline of the Void due to its lack of mana sources to deal with the card. Remember BoB doesn’t produce mana so it must rely on color specific cards such as Emerald Charm. This limits the ability quite a bit to play its hate against such cards and can often times lose game one against a very heavy Leyline of the Void main decked metagame. Its biggest advantage though shines through clearly with the ability to deal with (Tormod’s Crypt)/Relic of Progenitus. With the ability to play multiple copies of its combo cards, it can afford to slow roll its dredge and not lose to a single Relic/Crypt while being able to create tokens through bridge and Ichorid.

Mana Ichorid has enough main deck mana sources that it can deal with those pesky leylines. The problem here is the exact opposite of Manaless Ichorid. The deck tries to dump the majority of its library into the graveyard in a single turn and this often leads to a vulnerability to crypts and relics. It doesn’t have as strong of a beat down game to really afford to play manaless Ichorid style.

I do have problems with each build in it starts with the leylines main decked. I find they get in the way and even in mirror aren’t that great. If you are going to main deck hate, Tormod’s Crypt is a much better choice as you can cast it any time. I prefer to not main deck any hate though as decks like helm line are in the current metagame. In the Manaless Ichorid I’d replace the Leylines with any combination of Emerald Charm, Oxidize, or Pithing Needle. Emerald Charm is rather obvious. Oxidize is good to deal with the pithing needles main deck shutting down BoB. Pithing Needle is very versatile card that can deal with Wasteland or Relic/Crypt. Mana Ichorid can replace the leylines with a combination of Chain of Vapor,Emerald Charm, or Pithing Needle. In this case, it is much more likely that the Emerald Charm can untap a BoB or tap down a Tormod’s Crypt. Chain of Vapor is the ultimate answer to the majority of hate in the metagame and is easier to cast with twelve mana sources that can all produce blue. The needles will stop crypts, relics, or situational creatures that can sacrifice themselves i.e. Mogg Fanatic.

I’m not a fan of the deck playing Dryad Arbor as we don’t have Reverent Silence yet. I’d replace the arbors with City of Brass. This will allow the pilot to effectively cast Chain of Vapor or Wispmare. Dryad Arbor also has summoning sickness, giving the opportunistic Wasteland to make it go bye-bye before it can add mana.  Putrid Imp is a suitable replacement to Dryad Arbor. Making room for the imps may be tricky, but I found that cutting Ancient Grudge for the Imps actually helped a bit with consistency of the deck. I made these changes to the main deck for stability and adding a second discard outlet the deck sorely needed:

 

 
4 Ancient Grudge
-4 Dryad Arbor
+4 Putrid Imp
+4 City of Brass
With Mana Ichorid, M E L K O R and I came up with a different approach:
Mana Ichorid
Created by M E L K O R and FatManInALittleCoat
Creatures
3 Ichorid
2 Fatestitcher
3 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Narcomoeba
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Stinkweed Imp
21 cards

Other Spells
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Bridge from Below
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Dread Return
4 Lotus Petal
27 cards
 
Lands
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
8 cards

Questing Phelddagrif
      
Yes, that is a hippo with wings. There are quite a few curious cards in this deck. First off, in Legacy four (Lion’s Eye Diamond) is a dredge core staple. LED’s are restricted in Vintage thanks to Mike Long!  It is an incredible discard outlet, while adding three mana, and allows BoB to dredge often times leads into a Fatestitcher which continues the combo, normally dredging your entire deck out by turn two. This build has approximately fifteen percent winning turn one, and normally is able to win consistently faster than other versions by an average of ½ a turn. Lotus Petal helps balance out the majority of the list by giving it consistency and speed. Leyline is a very useless card, as we can already outrace the mirror matchup the majority of the time. Chain of Vapor main deck deals with almost every threat. We found that Tormod’s Crypt is much better than leyline, as it can be casted easily instead of being needed in opening hand. Tolarian Winds is in our board to counteract needles naming BoB. We’ve also found success with Oxidize in that slot. The two spare lands normally are boarded in to battle hate, normally taking out a petal and a LED for them. Over all the list has held up in 2-mans going 27-6 for myself and 15-7 for M E L K O R.
Hopefully you’ve liked this article. Until next time, you stay classy PureMtgo.Com readers.

11 Comments

led is not a staple in legacy by menace13 at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 03:13
menace13's picture

led is not a staple in legacy ichorid the deck is also divided into led and ledless lists [ref:mtgthesource].

crypt is not better than leyline as chalice shuts down crypt and null rod too, also while not being able to defend your own bridges
aside from the mirror which is as fast as you are. also stops wasteland recursion and tombstalker a tad bit.

crypt/relics are not in the 50 most played cards in either vintage or legacy ichorid where as leyline shows up in both formats top 50 most played cards in the archtype.

and you need a bigger coat

Nice article mate. by xXWarIsPeaceXx (not verified) at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 03:22
xXWarIsPeaceXx's picture

I like, good wordiology.

The deck seemed insane! Nice by SnowPaperMonkey (not verified) at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 04:13
SnowPaperMonkey's picture

The deck seemed insane! Nice innovation. A true CLASSIC format article.

I was talking about online by GoblinLackeyIsBlue at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 05:57
GoblinLackeyIsBlue's picture

I was talking about online menice, not vintage of legacy with the last part of the article, just simply refering to them, shoulda cleared up confusion, but yes close to 60 percent now of the meta is relic/crypt.

Crypt is also better as once leyline is bounced, it goes bye-bye. Very rarely can you recast it, and mulliganing to try and find it is rather annoying. I like to blame the online shuffler, but in a good sample I found I'd get leyline 3/5 games in openning hand, and in a fourth game i'd draw into 1. Needle stops wasteland reccurision, you're not really caring to much about tombstalker and i've gone off quicker than the mirror, hopefully next week i'll show you in a video!

I like it, a lot by dangerlinto at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 09:04
dangerlinto's picture

I love LED in Ichy, as well as Petal. They seem the obvious choice to get mana for non-dredging spells. It looks like you put a lot of effort into getting dredge to an all-in state.

One problem. Zen is released next week. Pretty sure instead of Crypts you'll be facing Traps instead. Thoughts?

as i said you online, really by LOurs at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 12:16
LOurs's picture
5

as i said you online, really great article mate !

i really like the creative decks you're always building ... even when there are flying hyppos into ;)

Trap cards! by GoblinLackeyIsBlue at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 12:26
GoblinLackeyIsBlue's picture

Therapy can nuke out traps and I may bump it up to 4.

I dont think the Traps are by Neoshinji :) (not verified) at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 12:45
Neoshinji :)'s picture

I dont think the Traps are going to be played against Dredge. Leyline, Crypt, and Relic are just better imo due to being more useful against other decks. People already dedicate enough SB to hate against Dredge.

Trap seems to very strong by ncnxwrwk at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 13:45
ncnxwrwk's picture

I think trap will redefine the classic format, it is a instant... In my opinion this is a big thing because it can't be destroyed or bounced. For now I would not know how dredge can handle this spell in a consistent manor.

I think Leyline can be replaced as hate card of choice by the trap. This will make life alot easier for the non dredge player, because he doesn't need to mulligan into it.

I hope that this card will make dredge a bit weaker, and give other decks a fighting change.

i agree by whiffy at Tue, 10/13/2009 - 14:04
whiffy's picture

for instance trap will benifet in thresh over the uncastable lotv. and w/ sensei it can dodge discard. lotv may be better at stopping dredge but sometimes all you need is a little time to reset the gy ala crypt,relic.

Good analysis and Tech by under_the_hammer at Wed, 10/14/2009 - 18:51
under_the_hammer's picture
5

Good article logical and insightful.
Pleae write about FatController ^_^