Musings on MTGO Community Challenge Cup Standard
I have been working on the Standard decks for the MCCC. The online community got us off to a good start by creating a playable gauntlet that had no overlap. That was a huge start. Now we have to refine the decks, and possibly scrap the bad ones and find replacements.
Oh, yes. The Wizards folks have agreed not to read the forums in which we are discussing decks and strategy. WotC - this is another such article. If you are on the WotC team, or building their decks, please don't read this article until after the event. Thanks.
We are playing in a special room online - room CCC. Just type "/join ccc" in any text box and you can join us. We appreciate any help we can get. We talk strategy and decks, and look for challengers. However - please bring gauntlet decks. Yes, non-unified standard decks are better, but that's not what we have to test against or prepare for. Our opponents, like ourselves, have to stretch thier fetchlands and mana fixing, as well as bombs, across eight decks. No one will be able to play, or have to play against, 5 color good stuff.
The biggest challenge for this deck construction is removal, card drawing and the mana bases. All of these are in short supply. Creatures, threats, stuff like that are all common - there are a couple hundred creatures in Standard after all. Lands that tap for more than one color mana - not so many.
These are all fine lands. They do much of what we want them to do - and only the tri-lands come into play tapped. The only downside is that nearly all of them are already assigned to decks. Decks like Boros Bushwacker - decks that run a dozen fetchlands - simply can't work here. The decks have play nicely, and share.
Let's take them in reverse order. The Refuges are the two color reprints of the Invasion block duals (e.g. Coastal Tower) that give you one life when they come into play. Coming into play tapped is not great, but they work, if they are all you have. I have been running them in a UB deck quite successfully, but that is because the UB deck is slow.
The Panoramas are interesting, mainly because they can function like overpriced fetchlands. They can trigger landfall abilities twice, like the fetchlands. They fix mana. The downsides, however, are that the lands they produce come into play tapped. I don't think I would want more than maybe two per deck - probably less - but if we have to free up some fetches of better lands for other decks, they may be the answer. I may try some in Esper Control, Jund and/or Bant. Yes, it might make those deck slightly worse, but our goal is to build eight playable decks, not three good decks and five piles.
Targeted removal is much the same. Terror is gone, but we have Doom Blade, Deathmark, Executioner's Capsule and Terminate, plus a few lesser cards. The trick is to allocate them. It gets worse when you look at good global removal. We still have Pyroclasm and Infest and Volcanic Fallout doing two damage, but the old three damage spells, like FIrespout are gone. Now we have Caldera Hellion, or Earthquake if you don't need to hit fliers. Wrath of God and Hallowed Burial are gone, leaving just Day of Judgment, Mass Calcify and (Planar Cleasning) as global kill spells. How would you divide those among 8 decks?
That's the challenge. The other challenge is to wedge as many good cards into the decks as possible. Getting all the decks to share cards is easy if they are narrow, but if that means that you leave out something you should be playing, that's bad. For example, leaving Baneslayer Angel sitting on the sideboards is an Epic Fail.
(Baneslayer is not in a deck at the moment, because we are reworking the UW / Esper build. She will be, though, soon.)
Some decks are easy, in that they pretty much build themselves. Here's an example.
This deck is pretty straightforward, but potent. I think we will save it for one of our teammates who will not have time to playtest before the event. The deck competes with other decks for pretty much nothing, except the Deathmarks. We will be testing the (Feat of Blood)s in their play, and see if it works. Feast of Blood kills Baneslayer Angle, too.
Here's another deck that should make the grade.
Sure, this deck would like Baneslayer Angel and Path to Exile and all the rest, but it is pretty darn good without them. It may get some tweaks, like Jenara, Asura of War, Knight of the Reliquary, maybe a Panorama so we can steal a fetch and so forth, but this seems to work. It is deck # two in the gauntlet.
Deck number three is also pretty much a given. It wins tournaments.
Beyond this point, the decks get sketchier. We had both Time Sieve and Soldiers decks in the format, and they both seriously underperformed. TIme Sieve, frankly, stank. They have been replaced. Here's one replacement, in a very preliminary form. Hamtastic is working on it at the moment.
3 Expedition Map
2 Knight-Captain of Eos
4 (Scepter of Denial)
4 Luminarch Ascension
4 Angelsong
4 Safe Passage
8 (Mountian)
11 Plains
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
3 Naya Panorama
4 Ajani Vengeant
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Martial Coup
4 Intimidation Bolt
3 Earthquake
The mana is a mess, which will get a lot better if we can find free up the RW fetches. I'm not even sure of the numbers, or that they add to twenty. A couple hours ago, this was UW.
One of our team loves mill decks. Unless that changes, and Sam finds something she likes even better, this will be part of the gauntlet.
I actually like this deck - partly because I built it. The one real techie part is the Clones in the Sideboard. If you want another answer to Baneslayer, try Clone. Clone is even an answer to cards like Progenitus and Darksteel Colossus - more or less. Against Progenitus, it would help if your Clone/Progenitus had haste as well. Two Progenituses race, the one getting the head start usually wins.
One final deck - once again, this is the sort of thing that you end up playing when your card pool is severely constrained. I started building this in ,y head on the commute home - and at that point I thought Hoofprints of the Stag was in Shards of Alara. It isn't - it's Lorwyn. The deck really wanted that card, but it works without.
This started as a bit of a joke, but it actually plays pretty well. It could really use Mulldrifter or something else that can draw cards. It also needs a board sweeper: Martial Coup would be perfect. However, Martial Coup is in use already. Other great token generators, like Mobilization have rotated out. (Siege Gang Commander) might be worth testing. Actually, a lot of this might be worth testing.
The deck is really good against creature beats. It is less exciting against Cruel Control and the like.
On the plus side, this is an absolute blast to play.
I have to head to work, and I will be travelling to, then running, a PTQ this weekend. I may appear online when possible.
PRJ
"one million words" on MTGO
"CC_1M_Words" on MTGO until the MCCC ends.
31 Comments
Clones don't race Progenitus -- they kill it... Right?
As for the Enchantress deck, the Enchantress shell itself seems pretty weak. How much overlap/card loss (beyond duals) would there be trying to switch closer to a straight-up Warp World deck like this one by BDM from Daily MTG's Daily Deck List Archive?
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/300
well - the 10 fetchlands are the first conflict. Jund gets first crack at the Verdant Crossroads.
The other downside is that BDM's version has no removal or access to a sweeper. It also has very little answers to planeswalkers etc. Just SGC
Not impossible - have to see.
I believe progenitus has protection from itself.
Heh, I already posted which decks I think you should try in the wotc community boards. However if you aren't running an r/g Nissa list, Jund actually gets better with two copies of Oran-Reef the Vastwood over a forest and an M10 dual. End of turn kill my Thrainax, pump tokens up is amusing, but so are 4/3 bloodbraid elves.
And well, the milling deck that has no Howling Mines or Fonts looks 'fun' but I don't think it'll be getting match wins. Jhessian Zombies?
In the last deck, did you realize that you don't have enough plains to actually ever use Emeria? The dual and tri lands are not plains.
That was a remnant from an earlier version.
*clone doesn't "target" progenitus, so it can make a copy. Then the legendary rule would kick in and both would go to the graveyard, right?
*Yeah, the Emeria is not going to work in the last deck, as you need more basic plains to trigger it.
*in the mill deck, how about Sadistic Sacrament and Traumatize?
Here's a UW Mill deck I saw perform very well against Jund:
4 x Howling Mine
4 x Jace Belaran
3 x Path to Exile
4 x Negate
4 x Angelsong
4 x Day of Judgement
4 x Trapmaker's Snare
4 x Archive Trap
1 x Mindbreak Trap
1 x Whiplash Trap
1 x Pitfall Trap
4 x Twincast
LANDS
22 x Expensive lands
SIDEBOARD
4 x Safe Passage
1 x Hedron Crab
4 x Celestial Purge
2 x Pithing Needle
4 x Luminarc Ascension
Hey pete, good article once again but take some time reading through the article before submitting it. the high number of typo's distract alot.
It would be great for your gauntlet to include the naya lotus angel deck that has been gaining alot of popularity lately.
I know - problem is that I have a couple demands on my time...
I did go through an correct a bunch of those, but I suspect that in my rush to leave for the PTQ, I simply closed the window pre save. Sorry.
where is baneslayer i didnt see her at all...
Baneslayer is in either UW control or Esper control. Uncertain.
You have verdand catacombs in the Enchantress deck and the Jund deck.
I thought someone would pull together a relentless rats deck because of the less impact it would have on the other decks. 23 swamps, 20 rats, 4 coat of arms, 4 Consume spirit (since tendrils is used), add in a couple of tutors and whatever removal you can fish up.
The rats deck using less resources frees up cards for the other decks.
RagMan
Relentless Rats is not spared the deck building requirements. You're allowed 10 in a Standard deck, one in an EDH deck, and only 4 among all decks in this challenge.
But if it worked, it would be an awesome suggestion.
since when was rats restricted to 10 in standard?
Are you sure this is correct? I'm pretty sure you're allowed as many as you like in standard, although I don't know how this challenge was worded. Did it say "4 of each standard legal card (except basic lands)", or did it say "within deck building constraints for a standard deck" or words to that effect?
Either way, it probably wants a lot of the support cards from the vampires deck, surely?
Relentless Rats has card text that overwrites the game rules.
The first golden rule of Magic (CR 103, IIRC) is that if a card rule confilcts with the omp rules, the card rule wins.
However, that only applies to the comp rules. Relentless Rats does not overwrite the tournmanet rules, Magic infraction procedure guide, etc.
In this case, the four-of and one-of rule is in the tournament description. Relentless Rats cannot chew that up. (And, yes, I confirmed that with both Mike Gills and the Level 5 judges while at PT Austin.)
Bummer, because the Relentless Rats deck might have worked.
Sounds good.
I guess that means we should include Gleemox in one of our 100CS decks... since the 100CS tournament rules do not ban Gleemox from deck construction.
No but Gleemox does itself. It says "This card is banned."
goblins could do well?
4x goblin guide
4x warren instigator
4x siege-gang commander
4x dragon fodder
4x goblin chieftain
4x goblin bushwhacker
2x goblin ruinblaster
4x goblin shortcutter
4x burst lightning
2x banefire
2x spire barrage(?)
22 mountain
maybe..
It's not an amazing deck, but something like the valakut "combo" deck could maybe fill the hole better than the strange enchantress thing? I don't have a list off the top of my head, but it's something like:
4 valakut, the molten pinnacle
4 expedition map
4 terramorphic expanse
4 r/g panorama's
~2 forest
~15 mountain
4 harrow
4 rampant growth
4 kh expedition
4 earthquake
4 fireball
4 borderland ranger
4 elvish visionary
some other stuff
The sideboard has hellkites and some other random stuff.
The basic idea is just to stall while you get valakut and 1 forest, then play a million acceleration spells to get loads of mountains, and valakut/burn them out. It does test a little better than it ssounds, and doesn't encroach much on the other decks that you've posted, so maybe could be worth consideration.
I'd also wonder about putting 1-2 platinum angel's in sideboards here and there. with the removal having to be spread out all over the place, there might be a few decks show up with no removal at all, allowing the ultimate mise? Just an idea..
You guys really ought to look into running poly-progenitus. Start with a base like this:
2x Progenitus
4x Polymorph
4x Thopter Foundry
4x Angelsong
4x Safe Passage
4x Summoner's Bane
4x Luminarch Ascension
4x Fieldmist Borderpost
Spatter with whatever lands and control elements that are remaining in the pool and Elspeth or Gargoyle Castle if they are remainibg as well. If the mana base is available Green can be added for more fog effects.
This deck is a blast to play, and would be unexpected in the field. Just something to think about :)
-Jed
possibly goblin assault as well in this one
- the warpworld deck which is mentioned earlier is way better then that enchantress deck
- maybe an Enchantress deck like: (if there are any luminarch ascensions left the can be put in this deck ofc.)_
4 Mesa Enchantress
3 Wall of Reverence
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 pacifism
3 crystallization
3 draw 2 card Expedition
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 mind control
3 ardent plea
2 Hive's mind
3 mark of asylum
2 fatties maybe mirror sigil sergeant
24 land
That's actually not a bad idea if the cards could be tweaked here and there to fit the other 7 decks. Problem is...if you get a fail draw it really fails here (nontargetable creatures etc). On the other hand assuming the main decks will not be running mass enchantment removal(say primeval light or whatever the current standard format tranquility is)x4 (which would be rather bizarre) with an ok draw you are going to be constantly removing creatures or paralyzing them or taking control of them which means you could just win from having massive removal draws.
That R/W deck most likely wants the fetches, and probably wants several of your Chandras as well, just to give it another win condition; and you might want to consider Burst Lightning for it, as a Bolt alternative (should there be Bolts in your Jund list, BTW?) and as an answer to e.g. Putrid Leech. Rupture Spire is perfectly fine in this deck, BTW, since it's slow enough and has few turn 2 plays, so that should help a lot with the mana. And I suspect the mill deck wants Telemin Performance at least in the board and quite possibly in the main too.
One category of mana fixing you missed, incidentally, is the Conflux landcyclers; they're not all great, but at least the blue one is a perfectly servicable late-game counterspell for a control deck while still getting land when you need it to.
Another possibility for Knight of the Reliquary that I haven't seen mentioned here is to put it into its own landfall/domain shell. More fetches would be better, but it's a deck that could comfortably play both Naya and Bant panoramas and might even be able to steal Hedron Crab if it wants it. Something like: 4 Wild Nacatl, 4 Steppe Lynx, 4 Plated Geopede, maybe Matca Rioters (not amazing, but why not?), 4 Knight of the Reliquary, 4 Rampaging Baloths, 4 Harrow, probably steal the Khalni Heart expeditions, and maybe even something like Voices from the Void here. A touch of removal (Lavalanche?) and this seems eminently viable, if clunky.
(d'oh, got a timeout on my first send and didn't realize I'd double-posted. Oops.)
You mentioned trying a soldier deck, but what about a WW Kor Equipment deck. naturally some combination of Armament Masters, Hookmasters, Outfitters, Duelists, Blademasters, Aeronauts and Skyfishers would be included. You could use Harm's Way, Arrow Volley or Pitfall traps to save up the Path to Exiles for another deck and Brave the Elements could be a win condition to give all your Kor protection.
The equipment options could include Behemoth Sledge (if you could sneak in a couple green sources of mana w/o hurting your curve). others includes Gorgon Flail, Quietus Spike, Trusty Machete and Bone Saw. Trailblazers boots could be SB tech against just about anything using non-basic land. Could also use Honor of the pure and Conqueror's Pledge since it makes Kor tokens as well. An armored ascension or 2 could be a nice surprise to make a beefy flying Kor dude or Windborne Charge to make 2 guys flying until EoT.
Forgot about Whispersilk Cloak. Enchant up an Armament Master with one of those and they're Unblockably Shrouded and giving everybody else +2/+2. Granted, 5 mana commitment to it, but still could be a good 1 of.
and i just realized that Kazandu Blademaster isn't a Kor...so scratch him off the list. :-(
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