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By: whiffy, Georgios Efelis
Aug 29 2011 3:26am
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Hey guys, I have two events to cover today with an almost identical deck. Interested in a newer Oath variant? Then todays article is for you! Enjoy the videos.

                                               DECK TECH

Shoath
Creatures 
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 
4 cards

Other Spells 
Dragon Breath 
Lotus Petal 
Vampiric Tutor 
Show and Tell 
Imperial Seal 
1 Demonic Consultation
Mental Misstep 
Demonic Tutor 
Force of Will 
Mystical Tutor 
Channel 
Duress 
Oath of Druids 
Hurkyl's Recall 
Brainstorm 
Mana Crypt 
Beast Within 
40 cards
Lands 
Bayou 
Underground Sea 
Misty Rainforest 
Forbidden Orchard 
Polluted Delta 
Volcanic Island 
Tropical Island 
16 cards

Sideboard 
Ancient Grudge 
Red Elemental Blast 
Show and Tell 
Pyroblast 
Leyline of the Void 
(Firespout) 
Nature's Claim 
Forest 
Island 
15 cards
Channel

                           ROUND 1

                           ROUND 2

                          ROUND 3

                           ROUND 4

                          ROUND 5

                            ROUND 6

 

Thats it for this week, please blast away in the comments, and I'll see ya in seven!

39 Comments

have to say by eldarock at Mon, 08/29/2011 - 09:25
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I am surprised that you didn't run strip or wasteland bro playing oath and know your gonna face hatebears its a great card vs hatebears, but great job bro.

Go Clan Magic Eternal

Think you forgot something by dangerlinto at Mon, 08/29/2011 - 09:29
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-1 anything
+1 Sol Ring.

Sol Ring? by caterpillar at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 09:40
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I'm not an expert on the format, but I wonder why you think Sol Ring needs to go into the deck? I think there are a lot of players who think Sol Ring should go in every deck because it's that good, but I'm not one of them. Maybe you're not one of those people either, and you have a good reason for suggesting it. The only use I can see for it here is to play a quick Show and Tell. Given that the deck potentially needs access to four colours and there's nothing besides Show and Tell to ramp into (and I'd rather cast Duress before it if given the choice) I honestly just don't see the point in Sol Ring here.

Pretty simple really... by dangerlinto at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 10:01
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Having an exrta two mana every turn is incredibly awesome - especially when 1/4 of all decks in the format seek to make you pay more and more mana for each and every spell you play.

Having Sol Ring is the difference between a single Lodestone Golem and Sphere or Resistance beat you to a pulp in 4 turns and you actually getting to play Show and Tell.

Having a Sol Ring out for turn 3 is the difference between playing Demonic Tutor and Show and Tell on the same turn and waiting for your opponent to draw two cards from Dark Confidant and brainstorming down 3 more to find the Force of Will he needs to counter it.

There is simply no reason to not run Sol Ring in the deck - especially sine it's also running Mana Crypt.

sol ring again by caterpillar at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 11:52
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Hmm... that sounds like a pretty good argument. I hadn't considered how useful it could be against the prison decks.

WoW by LogantheBard at Mon, 08/29/2011 - 13:24
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1

You know what kills Karakas? That beast within you never tutored for and sided out...

you rock by apaulogy at Mon, 08/29/2011 - 14:29
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5

I look forward to this every week. And while I do not play classic, I have learned a lot from watching you play.

Thanks for being a pillar in the community, whiffy.

Round 2 by yordash at Mon, 08/29/2011 - 14:36
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Crack the fetch before brainstorm for 3 new cards, rather than seeing the card you put back on top, also agree with the beast within to kill Karakas. And, haven't used oath much, in response to the trigger can't you tap the orchard and create a spirit and get your creature? I don't see why fro reading the card why it wouldn't work but not having played at that time not sure the interaction.

At the beginning means the by Paul Leicht at Mon, 08/29/2011 - 14:45
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At the beginning means the trigger counts creatures before you can add to the count even though the trigger would resolve afterward.

ok cool by yordash at Mon, 08/29/2011 - 15:14
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wasn't sure on that one thanks for that, seemed weird now makes more sense.

Channel doesn't seem good in by GainsBanding at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 03:32
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Channel doesn't seem good in a heavy creature meta. Combined with your own fetch lands and "pay 2 life" tutors, it doesn't take long to get down to 15 life. In 7 games here, you didn't cast it once. The one time you could have, it was nullified by Ethersworn Canonist.

Seems like just bad luck... by dangerlinto at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 10:06
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Channel is fantastic in the deck in the right circumstances - even with creatures, getting a turn 2 channel is crazy good - remember that if you Channel out Emrakul, you get a free turn - so even if they have a creature or two out - they are going to be hard pressed to keep most of them on the board - Annihilator 6 will do that.

However, it would be better utilized with Mana Drain to take the edge off of paying 15 life for Emrakul. I'm not sure this deck can run drain as it's spending a lot of time on 1cc, but with Drain, you at least have the advantage of dancing around Mental Misstep.

I am with Dangerlinto, if by char49d at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 11:14
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I am with Dangerlinto, if your deck isn't running very specific cards, you should auto-include Sol Ring, it makes almost every deck better. Obviously if you are a Null-Rod deck, or have some very specific difficult color requirements it is worse, but that's the exception that makes the rule. Basically if you have more than 1 or 2 spells with 2 colorless or more in the, I can't see not running the ring.

I would think a deck with channel would prefer Sol Ring to Mana Crypt, but that may be a metagame dependent question.

forbidden orchard by coolsucks at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 11:49
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I'm not familiar with oath, but rd 3 game 1 what prevents you from tapping your orchard during the upkeep to get an oath trigger? do you have to have less when the ability goes on the stack?

Sorry Guys by country hillbilly at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 12:05
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5

Completely COMPLETELY disagree. Sol Ring is not an auto-include in this deck. This is my baby and we actually cut sol ring FOR crypt. If you really wanted to run ring, you would cut crypt. Sol Ring gives you nothing except an early S&T or an early firespout/Beast Within.

In regards to the beast within, wth Georgie??? :P

dangerlinto's picture

Sol Ring just gives you an early Jace
Sol Ring just gives you an early Tinker
Sol Ring just gives you an early Time Vault
Sol Ring just gives you the early mana to pay for the Spell Pierce that will counter your gas

... the list goes on. There is basically no argument for not running a Sol ring in a deck that runs as it's main win condition a spell with 2 colorless mana in it. Getting an early ANYTHING in classic is win.

Sol could gives us an by country hillbilly at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 14:58
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Sol could gives us an early... O hey wait we run NONE of those spells. Tinker was actually IN the original iteration but was cut as we do not have moxen to support it. Honestly you are wrong Mike, due to the fact the show and tells are the WORST POSSIBLE win condition (see: third option), and the crypt can help there.

I didn't just throw this hot mess together, I tested PLENTY with Sol Ring :/

The point was by dangerlinto at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 15:47
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Your argument for not running Sol ring was that it would only give you an Early SnT.

And I made the point that is what makes Sol Ring so awesome it's only allowed in classic - to give you an early ANYTHING is the reason to run it.

If SnT is really the third option for your deck (and I think you'll find that's not evident in the videos, and to boot I'd suggest from the videos it appears more like the 1st option), I'd suggest that you don't need 3 of them in your deck, and one more in the sideboard. With 4 Mystical Tutor, you can easily get 1 after you've tried Channel, and add in other goodies.

@ everything by whiffy at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 13:18
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@ waste/strip.
I feel like this is a much more combo orientated build of oath, and with the myriad and redundant ways to get emrakul into play, its more important to have lands in play.

@ sol ring
Like zach said. Mana crypt is the sol ring. There is litterly no 2colorless costs besides SnT. I will say that yes, against shops sol ring would be great. But thats it, with the prevalence of misstep sol ring is just not the right card for the deck, and it has zero synergy with channel. if we changed around a few slots, well then sure maybe we might want it then. Im with zach i dont think it belongs.

@at beast within
Yea sometimes i miss things, like that interaction. Im pretty sure i acknowledge the mistake in the videos, sorry.

@oath+orchard
Oath trigger goes on the stack and i can not tap a orchard in response. I must have more guys when my t starts, to have the search/mill trigger.

@ Channel.
Yes sometimes fow, misstep, and vamp get in the way, as well as fetches. but sometimes you go t2 channel misstep the pierce and win

Glad to get so many comments on the article. thanks for watching and talking.

It isn't that Sol Ring and by char49d at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 13:53
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It isn't that Sol Ring and Channel are synergystic, it is that Mana Crypt and Channel have anti-synergy. You need to be at 16 life for channel to be worthwhile. If you have played Mana Crypt and lost a single die roll, after fetches or cards like Vampiric Tutor it is unlikely you can channel for 15, making it essentially useless.

Your life is relevant vs shops as is colorless mana.

Also, you have 4 FOW 3/4 SnT and Beast Within, and that's not even counting casting multiple 1 colorless spells in a turn, or casting through shops style disruption, spell pierce etc.

consider this hand. emrakul, by whiffy at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 14:08
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consider this hand.
emrakul, show and tell, fetch land, oath of druids, channel fow and sol ring.

t1 land sol ring, misstep, do you pitch snt to foW, or if it were crypt you could play snt t1.

same hand but your on the draw. you get a petal. t1 land go from them, t1 land petal channel, he spell pierces you fow he force of wills, if the sol ring were a mana crypt again, you would run it out and win through spell pierce.

since the deck is designed to cheat emrakul into play as fast as possible, then there you go. the life loss is a risk im willing to take, and it has not some up a signifagant amount of times.

I was saying specifically by char49d at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 14:33
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I was saying specifically that Mana Crypt and Channel do not play well together, and, truthfully, they do not.

I'm not saying that you want to run Sol Ring at the exclusion of Mana Crypt, I'm saying you want to run Sol Ring, period. I'm not sure what I would cut since I haven't played the deck, but Dragon Breath would probably be the first thing I looked at, and then depending on metagame, Duress.

I think Sol Ring is better than Mana Crypt most of the time, whether or not that is true in this deck is tough to say. If you want that type of effect, and this deck clearly does, Sol Ring should probably be in your deck.

Agreed by dangerlinto at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 15:01
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Looking at the list, My guess would be breath - mostly because with 4 Enmmy in the deck you chance of hitting Breath through Oath is pretty shallow. Hard to say for certain, though.

Dear God I wish you guys by country hillbilly at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 15:08
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Dear God I wish you guys would put it together and run it.... I tested this thing EXTENSIVELY and the breath(s) were cut and added and cut and re-added for a simple reason that would be blatantly obvious if you ran the deck. Without the dragon's breaths there is almost NO OUT to jace. Sure you can beast within, but they are blue and could easily stop that plan. Not to mention the stax decks running 4+ duplicant/metamorph removal effects. The dragon's breaths give us inevitability. The sol Ring does jack.... Try it if you don't believe me.

I understand you guys want to find something to pick apart, but until you run it is this argument is meh...... Sol Ring adds nothing :////

(Look through the list and dispute what I said. I would really love to hear your out to a resolved Jace)

P.S. - aside from situational removal (hurkyl, etc) the number one card I side out is S&T. Only GREAT matchup for s&t is fish, and now they run karakas :(

Well let's see- from the by dangerlinto at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 15:24
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Well let's see- from the videos shown here it looks like you played one Jace/Tezz deck (and lost), a couple of fish decks and oath and one nothing deck in rd 4 with a middling record - not much to write home about.

If you've tested it so thoroughly vs Shops and vs all these other decks - so much so that you feel the need to include something as narrow as and as remotely useful as Breath over something as mind-bogglingly useful as Sol Ring, I'm going to suggest that if you want to avoid making emotional outbursts like "Dear God I wish you'd put it together" over questioning such a choice, you'd better come prepared to defend that choice with some actual footage of those matches.

It's funny, but I was thinking about putting together a SnT deck just last week (I'd need 3 more) but this decklist and the videos have done little to convince me such a choice is worthwhile.

i dare say that if you are by whiffy at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:00
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i dare say that if you are going to run around saying come with footage or your wrong, you should maybe play the deck.

You have such a concrete view on how it should be built, yet you have never played it. put in the playtesting and tuning that zach and i did and then show us videos of how we are wrong.

until then we have differeing opinions and thats that.

also Im pretty sure that we have never claimed that this deck is the evolution of oath, its just an idea that we are fleshing out.

Read before you write by dangerlinto at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:25
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I didn't say Zac or you were wrong. I'm perfectly willing to believe that removing Sol Ring from the deck is the correct choice - but I did say that saying "this classic deck doesn't need Sol Ring" is the kind of thing you'd better come ready to back up with more than "I built the deck and tested it a LOT!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_burden_of_evidence

You'll notice on many forums with established meta games, that if you are going to make claims that seemly defy established thinking, it's your job to convince people otherwise. There is a reason for that. Unless you honestly think that taking Sol Ring out of a deck is a decision that can be casually thrown aside- and I'm sure you know it's not. Hence, I reiterate that the videos here and your own arguments leave a lot to be desired in convincing anyone that was the correct choice.

Not exactly sure why you felt you needed to add that bit about the evolution of Oath.

Both you and Zac seem to be taking things way too personally. I think the deck is pretty good, and when i was thinking about putting it together, I would have done much the same thing. I'm offering you constructive advice on how to better go about convincing people about the choices, especially the more difficult ones, you've made here.

LOL? "I'm going to suggest by country hillbilly at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:11
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LOL?

"I'm going to suggest that if you want to avoid making emotional outbursts like "Dear God I wish you'd put it together" over questioning such a choice, you'd better come prepared to defend that choice with some actual footage of those matches."

If you think THAT is an emotional outburst you do not know me too well. I also think recording TP room matches do little to drive home any points. I will have the matches I played with the deck for the current season 2 of mmogg's league up in YSO this week.

I'm starting to think you just don't like people taking your suggestions as gospel. I have no problem discussing decks and the reason I played this or didn't play that. Don't take it personally guy.

Ummm... by dangerlinto at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:28
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"also think recording TP room matches do little to drive home any points. I will have the matches I played with the deck for the current season 2 of mmogg's league up in YSO this week."

No offense, but isn't that slagging Whiffy's whole article? It's nothing but recorded TP matches.

"I will have the matches I played with the deck for the current season 2 of mmogg's league up in YSO this week"

Sounds good - I look forward to watching them.

Read my other posts to Whiffy, Zac. I've taken nothing personally. Anyone who takes my posts as Gospel is foolish.

@char Two cards don't work by country hillbilly at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 14:53
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5

@char

Two cards don't work well together, agreed. You do know channel in this deck is like "play me by turn 4 or I am useless", your argument doesn't really make much sense :/

(if you DO happen to play crypt later, or want to cast channel later with crypt out, the deck runs hurkyl or beast within...)

I'm definitely aware of how by char49d at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:03
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I'm definitely aware of how Channel works in this deck, I brought it up because there are so many ways to tutor for channel that you are going to have the option to find it and then cast it after playing crypt plenty.

I would run this deck but I lack FOW online, which is the biggest problem with classic/legacy on MTGO, obviously.

If you are that afraid of Jace due to the nature of your deck's win condition, maybe you should have 1 REB maindeck, and probably 2 more sideboard. REB/Pyroblast is the best answer to Jace ever printed, and it makes a pretty good mystical tutor target.

Fair enough by country hillbilly at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:13
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That does little to quell the other utility role of Dragon's Breath, which is pushing him through after a tense battle with duplicants and metamorphs. I appreciate the banter though. Watch my vids this week in YSO and let me know your thoughts. I'd appreciate it.

Stifle might work too by dangerlinto at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:31
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Stifle has the added benefit of being blue. It appears you'd normally only need to swing once with Emmy. It takes care of Karakas activations as well, though admittedly it possible many times they will get two cracks at your Emmy with a Karakas,

I think Karakas is THE #1 by country hillbilly at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:35
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I think Karakas is THE #1 thing I hate to play against. The sideboard is really well positioned to at least have a fighting chance against Shops. The two basics obviously come in (For GQ and general utility mana), the nature's claims and the ancient grudges serve a role here too. The best part about shop matchups is it contains their least favorite card in the world, Oath of Druids.

Stifle seems pretty decent, but I don't think it solves anything by itsself.

Example: EOT they Karakas my Emrakul, I stifle. They rinse and repeat after the untap. I had 2x Pithing Needle and ended up cutting them in favor of firespouts. Considering Fish is also the MU most likely to play Karakas, I may need to revisit that.

Is karakas that big a concern? by dangerlinto at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:43
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From what I see in decklists, they aren't running a whole lot of Karakas (like 1x in a deck). Maybe there is a bigger trend toward more Karakas in those lists?

The problem I see with using needle to stop Karakas is that if the MU is running Karakas it is also probably running so much hate for artifacts already it is unlikely to solve your problem.

Awesome comments section! by MMogg at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 18:44
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Awesome comments section! Classic really needs more debate . . . although less "don't take it personally," "no, you're taking it personally, but don't," "I so am not taking it personally, you are and there's nothing personal," "well I'm so impersonal I won't even address you," blah blah blah.

Thanks for the continued Classic content, whiffy.

rofl by apaulogy at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 19:00
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"don't take it personally," "no, you're taking it personally, but don't," "I so am not taking it personally, you are and there's nothing personal," "well I'm so impersonal I won't even address you," blah blah blah.

Good call. Although I do like the occasional Jerry Springer episode in comment threads... :)

Agreed lol. by Paul Leicht at Tue, 08/30/2011 - 21:52
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Agreed lol.

no sol ring? lol story bro. by greyes3 at Fri, 09/02/2011 - 00:38
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no sol ring? lol story bro.