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By: one million words, Pete Jahn
Feb 20 2009 11:05am
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Price of Duals and Force of Will, Part Two

Last week, I wrote about the problems the Classic format might have if cards from some classic sets are simply unavailable. At that point, a number of cards were not available at the major dealers – cards that were in Classic sets that were sold in the store and that had draft queues waiting for players.   The problem, as I showed, was that no one was drafting them.
 
I proposed a rotation schedule, under which the Classic sets (Mirage, Tempest, Saga and Masques blocks) would be introduced, and go off sale, in two year blocks, in the way Standard does. Mirage would go off sale once Urza’s Saga would be available for sale. However, once the Mercadian Masques introduction was over, Mirage would reappear, and then these four Classic blocks would reappear every four years in continuous rotation. I proposed the same thing for MEDII and MEDIII – and possibly MED IV and V, if Wizards can find enough valuable cards to make those sets work.  Wizards can do this, because, to the best of my knowledge, Wizards has never stated when, or even that they will, stop being sold.
 
Masters Edition I is a different story. Wizards did say that that set was gone and would never be reprinted. That is a problem.
 
Wizards could simply break their word. They could say “we pulled it too soon, and it was during the v2.5 migration, and...” and add it into the mix. Those are all valid reasons – but valid reasons would not change the fact that Wizards is reneging on a reprint policy statement. That would have a significant impact on both paper and online Magic.
 
Magic exists because a huge number of card sellers, like MTGOTraders and StarCityGames (and all the other – lesser, IMHO – dealers) exist. Without the dealers, players could not find the cards to make constructed decks easily enough to make large events possible. 
 
Seriously – Grand Prix Chicago is coming up in a couple weeks. It is Legacy. Hundreds and hundreds of people will appear with complete decks with cards that have been out of print for a decade. That would not happen without major dealers. For example, if the new hot deck is Natural Order in Progenitus, could you and your friends trade for sixteen copies of Natural Order?  The same thing is true online - the recent Pauper PE had over 100 players, and they could all find the necessary cards.  They didn't all have playsets of all those strange commons - many bought them from dealers.
 
The trading system on MTGO is not perfect, but it does make it a bit easier to find cards. Even online, however, I get far more cards from the MTGOTraders website and bots than from the in-game marketplace. Dealers are important. No, even more than that, dealers are critical.
 
If Wizards changes the reprint policy, it risks injuring the trust of the dealers. These dealers invest a lot of money in cards, and that investment is justified only because Wizards has stated that it will not take actions (other than set rotations, of course) to massively undercut the value of that investment. That trust has to be very important to Wizards, since it is critical to the health of the game.  Wizards will not / should not /must not damage that trust, without a very good reason (bannings are one example - and they are kept as limited as possible.) 
 
The question, though, is whether the number of staples available only in MEDI is so great that Wizards will have to reprint it. Let’s look at the set. After all, everyone knows that Force of Will is in MEDI. What else will we lose if the set is never reprinted?
 

Commons
Uncommons
Rares
Apprentice Wizard
Arcane Denial
Artifact Blast
Ashnod's Transmogrant
Basal Thrull
Benalish Hero
Bestial Fury
Brothers of Fire
Chub Toad
Crookshank Kobolds
Cuombajj Witches
Death Speakers
Death Ward
Dragon Engine
Dust to Dust
Dwarven Soldier
Erg Raiders
Exile
Feast or Famine
Fissure
Fyndhorn Elves
Ghazban Ogre
Giant Tortoise
Goblin Chirurgeon
Goblins of the Flarg
Holy Light
Hungry Mist
Hyalopterous Lemure
Hydroblast
Icatian Lieutenant
Illusionary Wall
Knights of Thorn
Lightning Bolt
Mesa Pegasus
Mindstab Thrull
Mountain Yeti
Nature's Lore
Onulet
Order of Leitbur
Order of the Ebon Hand
Oubliette
Paralyze
Phantom Monster
Phyrexian Boon
Psychic Venom
Pyroblast
Righteous Avengers
River Merfolk
Roots
Scryb Sprites
Sea Sprite
Shambling Strider
Shield Sphere
Telekinesis
Thorn Thallid
Thrull Retainer
Urza's Chalice
Wanderlust
Word of Undoing
Wyluli Wolf
Angry Mob
Animate Dead
Animate Wall
Black Knight
Blight
Breeding Pit
Carnivorous Plant
Centaur Archer
Clockwork Beast
Copper Tablet
Cursed Rack
Derelor
Divine Transformation
Dwarven Catapult
Eater of the Dead
Elder Land Wurm
Energy Arc
Fire Covenant
Goblin Grenade
Goblin Mutant
Granite Gargoyle
Greater Realm of Preservation
Hallowed Ground
High Tide
Homarid Spawning Bed
Hymn of Rebirth
Hymn to Tourach
Icatian Town
Ice Storm
Illusionary Forces
Juxtapose
Keldon Warlord
Lim-Dul's Vault
Mishra's Factory
Mystic Remora
Nether Shadow
Orcish Mechanics
Phyrexian War Beast
Psychic Purge
Rabid Wombat
Seasinger
Shield of the Ages
Singing Tree
Spectral Bears
Spinal Villain
Stone Calendar
Stone Giant
Storm Seeker
Sunken City
The Fallen
Thicket Basilisk
Thunder Spirit
Tivadar's Crusade
Urza's Bauble
Vodalian Knights
Walking Wall
Winds of Change
Winter Blast
Yavimaya Ants
Zuran Orb
Adun Oakenshield
Amnesia
Ankh of Mishra
Argivian Archaeologist
Armageddon
Autumn Willow
Balduvian Horde
Ball Lightning
Baron Sengir
Berserk
Chains of Mephistopheles
Contagion
Crusade
Dakkon Blackblade
Diamond Valley
Diminishing Returns
Eureka
Force of Will
Forcefield
Gargantuan Gorilla
Goblin Wizard
Hand of Justice
Hecatomb
Ifh-Biff Efreet
Illusions of Grandeur
Island of Wak-Wak
Ivory Tower
Jacques le Vert
Jokulhaups
Juzam Djinn
Khabal Ghoul
Lake of the Dead
Lord of Tresserhorn
Mana Flare
Marton Stromgald
Mirror Universe
Moat
Nevinyrral's Disk
Petra Sphinx
Phelddagrif
Polar Kraken
Pox
Preacher
Primal Order
Rainbow Vale
Ring of Ma'ruf
Seraph
Serendib Efreet
Serpent Generator
Su-Chi
Sylvan Library
Tawnos's Coffin
Thawing Glaciers
Thrull Champion
Time Elemental
Tornado
Varchild's War-Riders
Vesuvan Doppelganger
Winter Orb
Ydwen Efreet

The list is long. The number of classic, historically important cards on it is long. The number of playable cards is pretty long. The number of tournament staples?
 
Not so long.
 
In the commons, Lightning Bolt is played a lot, and will be played a lot. It showed up in the Top 8 lists from pretty much every PE played in the last few weeks.   After that – well, both Hydroblast and Pyroblast are good sideboard cards.  Hmm - let's look again...
 
Well, I do play one copy of Exile in my Lifegain themed Singleton deck...
 
And that’s it. In short – Lightning Bolt may someday be in short supply.   
 
In the uncommons, I found two tournament staples: Mishra’s Factory and Hymn to Tourach. Wizards has already printed a promo version of Mishra’s Factory, which both looks cool and, more importantly, is available.  Beyond those staples, two uncommons have potential, but have not been played so far. These are High Tide (which is waiting for Urza’s Saga to provide the necessary broken cards that made High Tide insane) and Lim-Dul’s Vault (which is generally played as a one or two of in combo decks, so should not be in that great of demand. )   Beyond that, I have seen cards like Mystic Remora played on occasion, but not often. 
 
I'm going to braodly define "playable," for rares, as anything I have ever seen played in a major event.  Even so, the list is not all that long. 
 
Ankh of Mishra
Armageddon
Berserk
Contagion
Diminishing Returns
FORCE OF WILL
Illusions of Grandeur     
Moat
Nevinyrral’s Disk
Pox
Sylvan Library
Thawing Glaciers
Winter Orb
 
One of these seems to stand out. One of these cards seems bigger than the others. Force of Will is the ultimate Classic staple. It is also a major player in Vintage and Legacy paper tournaments – in every format for which it is legal, for that matter. 
 
Looking over the last few weeks of MTGO Classic PEs, I see that Moat made a small showing, and Pox did pretty well. The rest – not so much. Diminishing Returns could power combo decks in the future, as could Illusions once Urza’s block brings us Donate. Berserk can show up if creature aggro returns (does Conflux have enough treats to bring Affinity back to Classic in force? Probably not.) Armageddon and Winter Orb are part of a mana denial strategy that is no longer viable. The rest – well, I like them, but they are just not tournament worthy any more.
 
So, what do we have? A lot of cards that will probably have no impact on anything, ever. A few cards that will find homes in special decks, or as one-ofs in some decks. Berserk is a great example – but Berserk is very scarce in the paper world, and that has not has a negative impact on Vintage or Legacy events.  Even cards like Moat are really scarce and expensive in the paper world, but Vintage and Legacy players have plenty of options for Tier One decks that do not use those cards. 
 
I see just four or five tournament staples, in the entire set, that could be in short supply in the future: Force of Will, Lightning Bolt, Mishra’s Factory; and maybe Hymn to Tourach and Pox.
 
That’s not a lot. It is almost certainly not a good enough reason to reprint the set once Wizards said they would never do it. Instead, Wizards can do what they have already done with Mishra’s Factory and other important cards like Fact or Fiction – they can issue them as promos or in special sets. We have already seen that Duel Decks: Daze vs. Gush and From the Vault: Foily Scaley Critters can sell, based solely on a few chase cards. 
 
It may turn out that Force of Will becomes online’s version of Black Lotus – the Classic staple that costs a fortune. It will almost certainly become the next $100 online card, and may someday become the first $200 (non-foil) card. 
 
So be it. At some point – possibly a couple points over the years, Wizards will need to add promo versions, but an expensive – but obtainable! – staple is not the end of the format.
 
Disclaimer: I have two copies of FoW, so I can both gloat and feel your pain. 
 
Still, as Worth pointed out, this is a collectible game, and at least some cards should just continue to increase in value. 
 
Having MEDI never come back will give us something else that paper has – a bunch of quirky old cards that you rarely see, except when some old-timer shows up with some ancient causal decks. We have that now, with some long-time players playing causal games with Tier 3 Invasion block uncommons, but now we’ll have more.  After all, that’s where Eater of the Dead and Elder Land Wurm fit in the paper world. That’s where they belong online, as well.
 
To all you folks that want one more chance to buy MEDI Packs and rip FoW – sorry.
 
Making People Buy Classic Sets
 
The other problem I noted was that Magic players are simply not busting the Classic set packs. The reasons are varied, and I talked about them last article. The simple answer, however, is that the cards (aside from a handful of chase cards) are simply not very valuable. Actually, it is worse than that – they are pretty much worthless. Almost 90% of the cards in the Mirage retail for a quarter or less, and the majority of those cost just a couple cents. 
 
You don’t want to draft classic sets like Mirage, or even MEDII, for the fiscal reward. You can make more money, and fill significant holes in your collection, more easily drafting Alara, Lorwyn or Shadowmoor. Drafts in those formats fill faster, and the sets are actually more fun to draft. The cards they produce are also, if you care about those things, redeemable.
 
Drafting the classic sets does not even let you dodge sharks. At the moment, because you have to wait so very long for a draft to fire, the people who do wait are fairly fanatical drafters. Those people may not necessarily be great players, but they tend to really know the format. That means that you will rarely face push-overs in classic draft queues.
 
Drafting the Classic sets is less popular than the new sets, and that shows in the lack of drafts firing, PEs filling and, as a direct result, the cards from those sets are not just expensive, they are often unobtainable.
 
That’s the problem.   Not "expensive," "unobtainable."
 
One solution would be to cut the price of drafts. Wizards could make all Classic drafts NIX TIX – in other words, cut the 2 TIX per draft charge and require product only. This creates two possible problems. First, it might not work well enough. We had NIX TIX drafts over the holidays, and Mirage block drafts did not fire all that often even then. More importantly, it creates a precedent: that Wizards could cut prices when drafts fail to fire. That might prove self-perpetuating. Once the frequency of drafts starts to fall, players may decide to sit on their packs until the format goes NIX TIX. In short, the possibility may kill for-pay drafts faster. 
 
Not good.
 
What Wizards needs to do is cut the price of Classic packs. They should reduce the price of Mirage, Visions and Weatherlight packs to $2.99.  (Tempest, too, eventually.)  That was the original retail price of those packs, back when they initially were sold in real-world stores. Reducing the cost of the packs will also help sell the product to the people who just bust the packs. (I know, I know, it’s better to draft or whatever. Still, Algona’s data shows pretty convincingly that a large percentage of packs are just busted.) 
 
So, does this create a bad precedent?  
 
No – because the precedent is self-limiting. It will apply only to classic sets that are not available for redemption, and sets the price for those packs at original manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP.)   There are only twelve such sets: Mirage, Visions, Weatherlight, Tempest, Stronghold, Exodus, Urza’s Saga, Urza’s Legacy, Urza’s Destiny, Mercadian Masques, Nemesis and Prophecy. Those are the only sets being released online that have not already gone off sale (Invasion forward), and are releasable online (unless Wizards releases Ice Ages, or the like.) 
 
More importantly, this does not set a precedent for sets like Shards of Alara or Lorwyn: those sets never sold, in the paper world, for a lower MSRP. In paper, the MSRP has always been $3.99. Moreover, the classic sets are not redeemable. This creates another justification for applying the lower price to those sets, and no others.
 
Wizards will have to consider what to do with Masters Edition packs. They are an oddity – they never had a real-world retail price, and are not redeemable. I could see Wizards keeping them at $3.99, putting them at $2.99, or splitting the difference. Making that call would require more information than I am privy to, and Wizards might want to see how discounted prices affect sales of the other sets, first. 
 
Will that sell product?
 
It is worth a shot. In the future, players will have two price options when drafting or buying packs. They can buy the newer sets for full price, or draft old sets at a discount. The economist in me says that the price cut should stimulate purchases. More importantly, the option for lower price drafts should attract some players for whom the price of a normal draft is too high.
 
I think it should work. However, I thought Swiss constructed queues would also work, so... 
 
Will Classic set price cuts reduce the number of regular drafts?
 
This one is harder to estimate. The newer sets have a ton of advantages. Drafting Shards online provides valuable preparation for real-world tournament, drafting Tempest does not.   Busting some Lorwyn packs should give you some playable commons and uncommons for constructed play, while draft Mirage probably will not. The new sets have a lot of selling points – not to mention that the sets are just more fun to draft. Tempest is not bad, but I have drafted Urza’s (the rule: draft black) and the grey boring muck that was Masques block. They are not great draft environments. 
 
I suspect that cutting the price of Classic packs will move some people away from drafting modern sets and over to Classic. However, that lost revenue should be more than offset by attracting more drafters overall.  For many players, drafts are just too expensive – but a three dollar a draft discount might be enough to lure them in.  (It's like the dollar menu at a fast food place - it does cut the number of full price meals sold, but the increase in overall sales make overall profits rise.) On the plus side, the reduced price will put more classic cards into the pool, which will really help the Classic constructed format. That should, in years to come, produce more revenue as well.
 
In short, I think this could be a net gain for the program as a whole.
 
This works even better when leagues return.  Having classic leagues at a discount will attract more players to what were, under v2.5, badly under-attended formats. The same other factors apply here: playing in a Shards / Conflux league builds skills that could be used in a Pro Tour Honolulu qualifier. Playing in a Mirage league would not. Wizards could even control the format discount.  The current classic sets have tournament packs. (Hopefully, that will not change, and Saga and Masques will also have tournament packs. I love the original Saga “lightning strike” Islands and Plains, in the original frame.)  If tournament packs continue, keeping thier prices undiscounted would limit the price reduction for league play, compared to draft.
 
I *think* the discount idea works.  In the end, though, all I can do is speculate. The folks at Wizards have the sales data. They can review the numbers and calculate price elasticity, incremental demand and product substitution. In the end, it’s their call, but I think this is a great way to deal with the problem.
 
PRJ
 
“one million words” on MTGO

20 Comments

The problem seems to stem by Tim (not verified) at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 11:54
Tim's picture

The problem seems to stem from the fact that these old sets are no fun and have little impact in constructed and real world drafts. What if Wizards came up with a system where anybody could make say a precon or tournament pack, that is fully customizable(3 rares(no multiples), X uncommns, x commons). This format I think would drive sells of the product so that the cards would be in circulation, wether people draft or not.

Excellent analysis by midnight_dancer (not verified) at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 12:08
midnight_dancer's picture
4

I'm generally fairly sympathetic to WotC over MTGO. But the decision to sell non-redeemable sets for full MRSP is one that baffles me. Discounting Mirage et al. wouldn't cannibalize standard block sales, it wouldn't cannibalize real-world sales, and it would maximize the RoI of these already developed cards. Apart from being seen to set some sort of precident, I can't understand it.

Your articles are always well by ElwoodPDowd (not verified) at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 12:30
ElwoodPDowd's picture

Your articles are always well thought out and good reads - but - MOVE ON! You've been banging your keys over and over and over this for multiple websites for a while now; rehashing the same points.
Those points are valid but most of us simply don't give a flying monkey for classic. A little nostalgia is great - I for one started with antiquities/revised packs - but thats about all most players looks at these old sets for. Pauper has interest, but even lightning bolts are easily and cheaply obtainable.
Please, turn your considerable writing skills to something new. I am quite sure WOTC has read your diatribes and will act however they feel they need to.
Thank you.

Don't listen to this guy... :-) by Giraffe at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 14:44
Giraffe's picture

Move on? Have you seen how much debate and conversation this has inspired?

There are plenty of articles out there that address the play of various formats: block, draft, pauper, standard, etc etc etc.

There are few gems that address the state of MTGO and where things are headed for its future. You may not be interested in Classic, but the items that are presented here could influence Wizards to change future policy. The cost of the game (for new stuff & old stuff alike) may be influenced based on these topics & considerations!

I realize this sort of thing won't interest everyone - but it is important and of high relevance to everyone, whether you're up for reading about & discussing it or not!

I whole-heartedly agree by Radman99 (not verified) at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 13:14
Radman99's picture
4

I hope WOTC is listening. The discount would stimulate otherwise ignored sets. Interest in older drafts can lead to interest in current drafts. More people playing is a good thing for all users. Keep the well-written articles coming!

Awesome analysis. by Giraffe at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 13:17
Giraffe's picture
5

Pete, great work. I've enjoyed your thoughts both here and in your previous article on the topic. I'm with you in your theories. Hopefully the Wiz is watching too.

I realize that the reprint policy is protecting the values for players & dealers. But would there really be a huge impact if MED1 were put back on sale? I realize it would rescind a promise, but would people lose out tremendously? The ability to buy non-draftable packs at $4 in hopes of busting a chase rare while most of the stuff is worth little probably wouldn't have huge impact, but it might keep FOW in check so that it doesn't go up to the $200 price you mention.

I also wonder whether a) listing the classic sets at $3 and b) keeping them up for sale indefinitely, or at least at a much longer rotation, would be feesible.

I'm not completely against high value cards existing.. But like you said previously, over time FOW & duals will simply not be available. At all. Those that want them will have them and there will be very small numbers for sale at giant prices. I love that some cards can have large values next to them, but I HATE that this may completely block new players from entering the Classic format. Given enough time the format could be destroyed, as you & others have mentioned.

I realize my ideas are a bit lackluster, just wanted to aid the cause with some of my thoughts.

Three issues by Umii at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 13:53
Umii's picture
4

Adhering to a broken policy (not reprinting MED) because you previously committed yourself to it is the "hobgoblin of small minds" or somesuch. Wizards needs to change their policies based on changing conditions. FoW availability (and price!) was not a problem before, but now it is. Not changing their policy would be akin to "staying the course" in Iraq (sorry if that is too political).

Dealers are not going to be hurt by changing this policy. As you note in the article, dealers don't have the cards in stock to get hurt by it. The only people who would get hurt are those that buy FoW at its peak value. This can be ameliorated by Wizards first saying they will reprint FoW, then waiting some time, then reprinting. It may hurt those few people who are invested in the game, but it will benefit 90% of the rest of users. Furthermore, anyone who spent $300 on FoW is not likely to leave the game in protest.

Finally, the idea of collectible digital objects is utterly laughable. Magic Online is meant to be played, not collected. I can understand Wizards policy for paper cards, which have analogues of stamp or coin collections, but it is preposterous for "digital objects." Could you imagine asking someone what their hobby is, and they responded, "I collect digital cards."? Perhaps I am too old to get this, and youngsters everywhere will collect digital things on protected servers.

Digital Objects by Giraffe at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 14:37
Giraffe's picture

Follow-up on your 3 points:
1. Agreed.
2. Agreed, AND - Dealers will arguably benefit MORE from a healthy classic environment. If Classic entry is barred, less people play it, dimishing the demand for Classic cards as a whole. By increasing the amt of Classic chase cards available, those prices drop, more people enter, the demand for the non-chase playables increases. Dealers make money.
3. "The idea of collectible digital objects is utterly laughable." Disagree, completely! If this were the case we would not play MTGO. We would not spend even $15 for a FOW - or anything else for that matter. We "collect" these items because they do have value. We'll buy packs & singles or play in drafts & other tournaments because the items we obtain are collectible - that being defined by the fact that they can be turned in for something of value.

Look also to other online objects. World of Warcraft gold, items, and characters. While the resale of these items is not endorced by Blizzard as Wizards supports the resale of its 'objects', this secondary market still accounts for many thousand of dollars through ebay and other offsale sites.

Further, consider Second life (or even Ultima Online.) People buy & sell currency and even online property there, among other things. I recall a game property being sold for many thousands of dollars (can't find the article at the moment.)

I won't even get into other sorts of digital items - think about how much companies might pay for the rights to a domain name, or the resale of a website for that matter (think of the amt of $ involved if Google or Ebay were to sell their core or subsidiary products.)

How about the stock market? Does it make sense to buy an arbitrary investment in a company? At least w/ digital cards we can play an awesome game of M:TG... ;-)

When you think about it, its kind of odd that I can trade some money (useful for .. fuel , communicatoin , etc...) for anything in the world? Food, Transportation, Shelter, etc. I mean, the paper at least is useful, but not THAT useful. :-)

I do understand what you mean though. Whenever I explain to friends that I play magic online and that it works similar to a physical card collection they find it quite odd. But the facts that this 'online commodity' is a) controlled in its distribution and b) that there is demand for it... It makes sense!

2 out of 3 ain't bad by Umii at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 21:38
Umii's picture

You're right that there are digital collectors' items in various games, but I think they are somewhat different from traditional collectors items. If you buy a special mount in WoW, you get to ride it; or in Second Life, you actually get to use the real estate. Similarly for magic, we play with these collectors items.

A more traditional collectors item might be something that is special because it is rare, like a misprint, and is never used. If I remember correctly, when Elves vs. Goblins came out, there was a non-foil Siege-Gang Commander, which was quickly changed to a foil version. Those few Promo Siege-Gang Commanders would be more of a collectors' item in my mind, since they are a rare digital misprint. FoW on the other hand was not a misprint or other bug, and is meant to be played.

Ben Bleiwess at StarCityGames covered some similar issues a few months ago:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/16737_Insider_Trading_Should_Wiz...

Money itself is a digital by Emay (not verified) at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 17:38
Emay's picture

Money itself is a digital object. When Google bought Youtube for 1.6 billion, do you reckon they rolled dozens of dump-trucks filled with crisp $100 bills up to their offices to deliver the payment? No, they just had a bank change some bits of data in a few hard drives. 97% of American currency is stored electronically, paper/coin money makes up 3% of the currency out there.

So arguing that it's "just data" and therefore shouldn't be valued is not just an old school way of thinking - it's silly. If you don't value your bank account, mind transferring it to someone who does? (Me!)

difference is, you legally by adhuin (not verified) at Sat, 02/21/2009 - 16:06
adhuin's picture

difference is, you legally own your money.
Wotc can ban you any day and you lose all the digital cards permanently. (or they can just go out of business) :)
paper cards are yours forever. digital cards that are tied to wotc servers aren't.

great article, congratulation by LOurs at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 14:10
LOurs's picture
5

great article, congratulation and go on !

i will put there comments about all what you explained, but i need more time to format it in a well english ^^

Classic by Margul (not verified) at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 15:04
Margul's picture

I won't play classic because of the huge barrier to entry. Case in point.

I see that it is to old for extended and know it is in another ballgame altogether. And the artwork certainly doesn't help.

Unavailable .ne. death of classic by Orgion (not verified) at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 15:35
Orgion's picture
2

To be fair to you, i appreciate why your worried about the supply of the current tournament staples drying up, but the idea that it'll destroy the classic format is ludicrous! As I mentioned last week, on which I believe you disagreed (thank you by the way for replying), being unable to obtain certain cards is only
a problem if there is nothing else competitive printed!
Tournament staples are only such because they are the best at what they do. But print alternative options and people suddenly have viable options. In short demand for your staples will drop. There is also the fact that if noone can get them, then they'll have to play something else anyway.
As to reducing the price of classic sets, while i agree completely in theory, i have a feeling WoC won't do so with the cash cow of Urza's block just round the corner. Lets be honest, a comparison of tournament playables in mirage vs urza's saga is greatly skewed in favour of the latter. Are you really telling me demand for the latters block is going to be weak?

Classic state by Slim at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 17:50
Slim's picture
4

Great article.

I'm new to MTGO...about 8 months now and i have to say...the classic drafts and Classic constructed formats are not appealing to me right now. I do find 4$ a pack for non-redeemable/out of print sets a little crazy. Not to mention....most of the cards are not worth playing. The cards needed to compete in the CC events are insanely priced...all for what...3-5 turns of play?!? I have to give props to the seasoned veterans of the Classic format though, they play well and they know the metagame very well.

Having said that...I am however a collector. I DO find value in collecting these digital objects and DO enjoy it. I just recently completed my Alara playset by means of drafting and competing in Daily Events and i really enjoyed that experience! As a collector i would like to build on the Classic formats but i just can't justify paying and crossing my fingers for a particular rare and getting nothing but garbage. I have tried a couple of the drafts but always got smoked by opponents who seemed to be experts in that block. I have to agree on many of the points Giraffe brought up on his 12:17 post as well.

I also keep reminding myself that I am new to MTGO and reading the many articles posted on this forum really helps me understand what is going on with MTGO. I sincerely thank all the people who write for PUREMTGO on a weekly basis. I find all the articles an interesting read and always look forward to the next arcticles. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK...all of you!

Classic Barrier by Kris (not verified) at Fri, 02/20/2009 - 23:22
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5

I also refuse to enter the classic format, due entirely to the either unavailability of the cards, or high price of these cards. If I cannot redeem these cards, and only use them in one format, there is little appeal to me to spend hundreds of dollars acquiring them. Not to mention having the specter of a format failing after I buy these overpriced digital objects. Standard for me....the lands are much cheaper, except for mutavault, and I don't see Standard failing anytime soon. Great article, love the debate going on!

I was an avid MVW drafter and by Anonymous (not verified) at Sat, 02/21/2009 - 00:26
Anonymous's picture

I was an avid MVW drafter and I didn't mind one bit paying "full price" for the packs. In fact you could get a set for less than 11 tix from dealers. But regardless, I didn't play classic, or constructed at all for that matter, and it didn't matter to me that the sets weren't redeemable. The trading is so fluid online that turning those MVW cards into tix and then trading those tix for redeemable cards (if I so wished) was incredibly easy.

Also, the value of Mirage crap rares is still better than the value of Shards crap rares. Visions is even more valuable, and Weatherlight is off the charts. Horrendously crap rares in WL still go for as much as standard tournament staples. Just compare Ancestral Knowledge to Broodmate Dragon.

Price drop on those sets by Anonymous (not verified) at Sat, 02/21/2009 - 13:13
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Price drop on those sets won't work. Unless the sets are less than a dollar, and even then, its a stretch. The sets are basically worthless other than the chase rares. Just ripping packs is never a good idea, and there isn't enough interest to make a viable limited landscape for those sets. MTGO is a money machine, that works well. They have tons of players for STD, current limited, EXT, pauper, and just about every other format, to create healthy environments, and queues that actually fire, and are more than likely extremely profitable (I have no idea, I haven't seen their balance sheet, I am just assuming from what I see with my own eyes). Classic is a fringe format (that I enjoy a lot), but to think that they are going to just start reprinting stuff so that they can grow a format that only a handful of people even participate in, when they could focus on growing formats that have wider interest, is pretty foolish. Look at moxes, lotuses, and all the rest of the T1 power cards, in extremely short supply, extremely expensive, a barrier to competitive play, NEVER reprinted, not even in the last 10 years with people begging for it, over and over. I am all for reprinting, I purchase my cards with my own money, I have no interest in selling them ever and do not view them as some sort of investment vehicle, yes, it would be nice if they gained value, but for the most part, they lose value. I love the game and will continue to play, so they have no real value to me other than play value, reprinting will only allow me to buy cheaper. With that being said, it will never happen.

Noknife

Price of FOW by tumultuous (not verified) at Mon, 02/23/2009 - 13:34
tumultuous's picture
5

Pete - great article, as always.

I can't say for sure if your article is the reason, but the price of Force of Wills spiked this weekend. I read your article on Friday and decided (like several others apparently) to pick up a playset of Forces before they got too high. I had one that I bought for 20 tickets for singleton, and I never intended on getting more, but reading your article inspired me to do so. Anyway, they were going for 60 for the last few weeks so I thought I could get my last 3 for that price, but I was sorely mistaken. I got my 2nd copy for 63 (lucky get in auction room) but I ended up having to pay SEVENTY EACH!!! for the final two. I'm glad I did though; the classified ads are filled with people trying to sell for 74-76, and I'm sure it will only get worse over time. Thanks for the tip; in our horrible economy, this is the safest investment I think I could make.

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