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By: Lord Erman, Nafiz Erman
Feb 16 2010 3:18am
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ROGUE PLAY
New Kids on the Block
Part I

 

Hello dear readers, it's once again time for your weekly dose of Rogue Play. This week I will go over Worldwake once again but do so from a Block player's perspective. This week and next week, we wil only be talking about the new ZEN Block meta and see what new decks we will have to face in the coming days. We will also talk about the new versions of old already proven Tier-1 decks (which we will do this week).

 

Before Worldwake, we had a pretty established ZEN Block meta; Vampires and Control were the best two decks in the format and Valakut decks were coming right from behind. And those who didn't want to play those three big archetypes and wanted to go rogue, preferred Mono White Emeria Control or Kor Aggro or Mono Red Aggro or even Allies.

 

And this week I will go over each of those strategies and look at what Worldwake is giving them. Will they still continue to be Tier-1 decks? Or will they get smashed by the new ones? What are their strengths and weaknesses?

 

And without losing more time, I want to start with the first archetype which is the dreaded Vampires.dec.

 

 

VAMPIRES

To be able to talk about a deck's future, we must first understand what it is capable of doing now. So what is this vampires.dec? Why was it so successful in ZEN Block?

Here's a sample vampires decklist before Worldwake:

Vampires
As Played By Chrispettingill
Creatures
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Bloodghast
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Vampire Lacerator
24 cards

Other Spells
4 Disfigure
4 Feast of Blood
4 Quest for the Gravelord
12 cards
 
Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
16 Swamp
24 cards

Vampire Nighthawk

 

It may look very simple but this version is enough to go 4-0 in Daily Events. The strategy here is very simple; just bash bash bash and bash. It's fast, it's easy, it's pretty straightforward and any pilot who knows how to play against Control can take it down easily with this build.

Another vampires strategy is this:

 

This version is playing four less creatures but instead packs some more Control elements in the maindeck to fight Control decks. Carnage Altar is a nice combo with Bloodghast, Mind Sludge is the deadliest weapon of vampires against Control and Sorin Markov is just incredibly powerful. This is a slower version of vampires but it works better against Control. It also has Desecrated Earth in the sideboard to fight Valakut decks.

There are of course many different ways to build a vampires deck but the two main strategies are as shown above. Either you pack a heavy critter package and deal damage fast, or you give up pace but pack weapons that work like a charm against Control decks but only after mid game.

Now that we all understood the capabilities of vampires.dec, let's take a closer look at what Worldwake offers it.

Maybe not that close...

One thing is for certain: No matter how one builds his vampires deck, he will most definitely replace his Feast of Blood and Disfigure with Smother and Urge to Feed. Feast of Blood is a sorcery and you have to have two vampires on table to be able to play it. And besides, there's no difference for a vampires deck between and . And I don't think that I have to tell you why Smother is better than the Black Shock. So yes, Disfigure and Feast of Blood out, Smother and Urge to Feed in.

Okay we just did the easy part; we replaced our old removal spells with the new better ones. But what next? There are two cards we must decide and the first one is Anowon, the Ruin Sage.

I will say it right at the beginning: Anowon, the Ruin Sage isn't a good choice for an average vampires deck. Reasons? There are many in fact.

First of all he's completely useless against other vampire decks. He's also useless against Valakut decks and a single active Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle will take him down whereas it takes two to kill Malakir Bloodwitch. He is also useless against  Control decks. Surely he can get rid of that opposing Calcite Snapper and/or Sphinx of Jwar Isle, but Malakir Bloodwitch's protection from white is far more important than that.

And he's also not so scary against Mono White Emeria Control. The Emeria player will resurrect his dead creature with his land and the tokens of Conqueror's Pledge make things even more funny.

And finally against Kor Aggro decks or Allies, I would still prefer Malakir Bloodwitch. She has protection from white, she flies, she gains life and make the opponent lose life when she enters the battlefield, and she's a 4/4. Anowon, the Ruin Sage is a 4/3 for the same price, he doesn't fly, doesn't have any protection but the worse thing is that he's legendary. 

So what now?  Is Anowon, the Ruin Sage a completely useless junk rare? Will we only see him in our casual games in the Casual Room? I highly doubt that. So no, I don't think that he is a junk rare. But as I said, he is just not a good choice for the average vampires deck.

Maybe you aren't aware but there's a big bad mean demon in Worldwake called Abyssal Persecutor. Malakir Bloodwitch might be scary and all, but she's nowhere near this new bad boy. But there's a problem with the demon; how will we destroy it? And this is ZEN Block we're talking about and cards like Terminate, Path to Exile, Bone Splinters or Maelstrom Pulse are total strangers to us.

I think you understand what I am trying to say. I'm actually talking about a mono black deck that looks like a vampires deck but is actually a deck that is designed to play Abyssal Persecutor. An average vampires deck cannot play him. Other than Gatekeeper of Malakir, that deck has nothing big enough to kill him. Hideous End won't work. Smother doesn't cut. It takes two Urge to Feeds and three Disfigures to kill him. Feast of Blood works surely, but we cannot have our demon AND two other vampires on table all the time.

And this is where Anowon, the Ruin Sage comes in. Oh him and Carnage Altar too just in case. And this is what I'm talking about:

Abyssal Vampires
A Future ZEN Block Deck by Nafiz Erman
Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Vampire Hexmage
3 Anowon, the Ruin Sage
2 Kalastria Highborn
24 cards

Other Spells
4 Smother
4 Urge to Feed
4 Carnage Altar
12 cards
 
Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bojuka Bog
14 Swamp
24 cards

Carnage Altar

 

As you can also see, this deck has two routes to victory. One is the obvious beatdown with Abyssal Persecutor. Once you're done with him, you will either sacrifice him to Carnage Altar or to your Gatekeeper of Malakir or get rid of him with your Anowon, the Ruin Sage. And if this plan somehow fails, you can also lower your opponent's life total with the usual suspects and deal the final blow with your Bloodghast / Carnage AltarKalastria Highborn trio.

Bojuka Bog in the maindeck prevents the opponent from resurrecting his dead Bloodghasts and it also shuts down any Emeria, the Sky Ruin mumbo jumbo. But it enters the battlefield tapped and therefore four copies would be overkill. I will start testing with two copies but maybe I should play three; only testing will tell. And Tectonic Edge in the sideboard obviously will come in against manlands as well as Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle.

I am of course not saying that this above will be the exact list of seventy five cards we will see in each and every tournament, but I'm rather showing you a strategy. If you liked it, it's of course up to you to tweak it.

But no matter how you look at it, it's clear that Worldwake brought many new good toys to vampires.dec. The deck has now better removal, better critters and in my opinion it is deadlier than ever.

 

WHITE / BLUE CONTROL

The second powerful archetype of ZEN Block is without doubt  Control and one doesn't have to be a Pro Tour winner to realize how even more powerful it will get after Worldwake.

There are many good additions to this strategy but I want to start with the lands. Because even though Celestial Colonnade is a fantastic card, I think that  Control might have some problems with its lands.

Actually the lands themselves are not the problem. The real problem is choosing which ones to play. Until Worldwake each and every  Control deck played four Kabira Crossroads' and four Sejiri Refuges. But now there is Celestial Colonnade AND there is Halimar Depths too. Even eight "enters the battlefield tapped" lands were too much and now there are sixteen of them!

Against other Control decks this fact doesn't mean much. After all, nothing happens before turn eight or nine in those games. But what will happen against vampires? What will happen against  Kor Aggro? Having a Day of Judgment in hand and four lands in play but not being able to cast that spell is just annoying. 

What will happen if you lose a game like that? I know ZEN Block. I played this format a lot. And I know how crucial a fourth turn Day of Judgment is against Aggro decks. Fifth turn sometimes mean "gg". And the idea of sixteen "enters the battlefield tapped" lands makes me a little bit nervous.

And could Amulet of Vigor be a solution? I personally don't think it will. It will consume precious deck slots and considering what it does, I don't think it will be worth dedicating those slots to it. So even though it was a very nice card, the time to say goodbye to Kabira Crossroads has come. Sad but true.

Now that we finished talking about the lands, let's move onto the actual spells of the deck. As I said, Worldwake was very generous to Blue and gave it many useful cards. And let's talk a little bit about those new goodies Control got with the new set.

1- Celestial ColonnadeHalimar Depths: We just talked about them above and yes, they will be in. No questions asked.

2- Treasure Hunt: Another auto include to the deck. It will replace Ior Ruin Expedition most definitely and it may even replace Sphinx of Lost Truths.

3- Jace, the Mind Sculptor: He will be the superstar of this deck.

4- Kor Firewalker: A fine addition to the sideboard to fight those pesky Red Aggro decks.

5- Calcite Snapper: An early solid shroud blocker that can also turn into an early solid shroud attacker is just too good to pass.

And considering all those things, I think that the new generation of  Control decks will look like this:

White Blue Control
A Future ZEN Block Deck by Nafiz Erman
Creatures
4 Calcite Snapper
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
6 cards

Other Spells
4 Cancel
4 Day of Judgment
4 Journey to Nowhere
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Treasure Hunt
4 Spreading Seas
4 Into the Roil
28 cards
 
Lands
4 Sejiri Refuge
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Halimar Depths
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
8 Island
3 Plains
26 cards

Sphinx of Jwar Isle

 

This above is what I will play during testing. For a long time I couldn't decide between Spreading Seas and Spell Pierce for the last maindeck slot, but after I realized that  Control can't deal with manlands outside of combat, I made my mind. There will be a lot of manland action in the post Worldwake ZEN meta for sure, and that fine enchantment is an easy and painless solution to them.

However my humble opinion is that Spell Pierce will also be a very important spell in the next generation of  Control decks. It works wonders during early game against any kind of deck by countering enchantments, equipments and Harrows, and even after mid game it punishes the opponent for casting a Mind Sludge without having seven lands first.


Jace killed the Sphinx.

I removed Sphinx of Lost Truths from the deck completely. I believe that with Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Treasure Hunt in the deck, a third card drawing spell is not needed. And please also do note that all my current creatures have shroud and this will mean that my opponents' hands will be clogged with removal. Which will mean that my sphinx will have absolutely no chance for survival. And I really don't want to pay seven mana for just three cards. Not when I have Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Treasure Hunt in deck.

Alternatively, you can also try creatureless versions too. Even though I strongly object that idea, you can also rely only on your manland and the token(s) you will get from your Rite of Replication. Of course you cannot Clone shroud creatures and against some decks, such as the one above, that Rite of Replication will become a dead card.

Okay, I think we talked about everything there is to talk. In my opinion the future of Control is card drawing, spell countering, creature destroying, permanent bouncing, life gaining and then bashing with all those shroud beasts. And my above version will be a nice start and only testing will show where the deck will go from there.

 

VALAKUT MANA RAMP

Valakut is one of my favorite decks for ZEN Block and for Standard, but even before Worldwake there were a lot of anti-Valakut cards around and unfortunately Worldwake brought many more.

Okay, I admit that Tectonic Edge is scary but it is no more scarier than Spreading Seas or Goblin Ruinblaster or Desecrated Earth. So one thing is for sure: There will be no such thing as playing your Valakut freely and dealing damage freely with it. So all the Valakut players have to have a solid plan B; and a very solid one.

But before I continue any further, I first want to share the pre-Worldwake list of Valakut Ramp deck so that we all know what we're talking about.

 

This list was enough to go 4-0 in a field full with Desecrated Earths and Spreading Seas' and Goblin Ruinblasters. But now, after the online release of Worldwake, this deck also has to adapt itself to the new environment. And the new land destruction cards are not the only problem. The new manlands, especially Celestial Colonnade, are the new puzzles Valakut decks must solve.

And let's look at the new cards for a second. There are more than a few new candidates and let's go over them in detail.

1- Dragonmaster Outcast: Here's the new dilemma; Rampaging Baloths or Dragonmaster Outcast? A mere 1/1 or a mighty 6/6 trampler? A casting cost of or ? 5/5 flying dragons or 4/4 beasts? 4/4's each time you play a land or a single 5/5 flyer at the beginning of your turn? I know; very hard questions. My personal answer you will see below in a second in the decklist.

2- Explore: A custom tailored card for Valakut decks. If only we had a way to have an extra land in hand before we play this...

3- Pilgrim's Eye: This new thopter is the way to have an extra land in hand before casting an Explore.

4- Comet Storm: If anything else fails, just burn them. With the amount of mana this deck can generate, Comet Storm can be a good finisher. And please let me remind you dear readers that it's an instant too.

5- Searing Blaze: Valakut might not be the best deck that will get the most out of it. It's a candidate but not the strongest one in my opinion.

6- Raging Ravine: Surely it doesn't work with Harrow or Khalni Heart Expedition. You can't fetch it with Pilgrim's Eye. It doesn't count as a Mountain so it's no good to Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. But at least two copies won't hurt, right? Maybe a few less Forests so that this one can get in?

And for the sideboard these are the candidates:


Explore-ing options.

1- Ricochet Trap: Depending on the post Worldwake meta, this card may even move to the main deck. So you just cast a Spreading Seas targeting my Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. And look what happened now. My land is there where it was but your Celestial Colonnade has been turned into an Island! Too bad.

2- Nature's Claim: There are tons of targets for this new Naturalize and the fact that it costs one less, makes it more appealing despite the drawback.

3- Stone Idol Trap: This deck has so much mana, it can even pay the full price of Stone Idol Trap without having any problems. It kills Kor Firewalker, it ambushes any nonflying creature at any size and the fact that you can also use it on offense, makes it a very good candidate for this deck. 

And now, after going over the cards one by one, I can share with you my decklist.

 

Let's go over my card selections quickly. First and foremost; Rampaging Baloths is out and Dragonmaster Outcast is in. And this has many reasons. Reason one is that I don't like having a card in deck with double Green mana symbol in its casting cost. One single Forest should be enough for me to play my spells. When Rampaging Baloths was in deck, one Forest wasn't enough. Now it is.

Reason number two is that those 5/5 tokens can block opposing Sphinx of Jwar Isles, Malakir Bloodwitches, Celestial Colonnades and Emeria Angels. 4/4 beast tokens weren't any good in those situations. And reason number three is that I always found it a bit funny to play Rampaging Baloths in a deck that also has Lavaball Trap. So I make 4/4 tokens and then what? Kill them all by myself with my own Lavaball Trap? What kind of nonsense is this?!

So yes, Rampaging Baloths is out and Dragonmaster Outcast is in.

And removing Rampaging Baloths gave a lot more freedom to my manabase. I have less Forests and I can even play two Raging Ravines now. And the rest of my card selections are easy to understand I assume.

And there you have it. The v1.0 of my next level Valakut Ramp deck. Only time and heavy testing will show where it will go from there.

 

KOR AGGRO

I will be honest with you. When I was playing ZEN Block, Kor decks were played only in the Casual Room. But apparently something has happened after I planeswalked away from Zendikar and the Kor somehow got promoted to the tournament scene.

But don't get me wrong; I'm not a total stranger to the Kor. I played ZEN Block Kor decks a lot but did so back when they were nothing more than casual entertainment. But I know how effective a single Kor Duelist can get if you manage to give him an equipment. He starts as a mere 1/1 and watching him grow first to a 3/2 double striker and then to the gigantic size of 5/4 double striker is a lot fun.

Apparently it's not only fun anymore. Players realized the potential that lies within this tribe and took them to the serious level of Magic. And from what I see, they even have success with those Kor decks.

But to talk about the future of this equipment-lovin', hook-usin' and rope-wrappin' tribe, let's take a look first at what they are now:

Kor Tribal
As Played By krazykohman
Creatures
4 Armament Master
4 Devout Lightcaster
4 Kor Aeronaut
4 Kor Duelist
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Steppe Lynx
2 Kor Hookmaster
26 cards

Other Spells
4 Adventuring Gear
4 Brave the Elements
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 Trusty Machete
14 cards
 
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
12 Plains
20 cards

Armament Master

 

This is almost the same deck that I was playing in the Casual Room back in early November or so. It's amusing as well as interesting to see this list taking down serious Tier-1 decks. I never had the courage to play this in tournaments. To be honest, I never even thought of it. But apparently I was wrong; Kor are indeed a tribe to be taken seriously.

Okay let's continue. What does Worldwake offer to this equipment obsessive tribe? The first card I must mention is without doubt Kor Firewalker. He's a superstar in Standard but ZEN Block is infested with vampires and  Control decks. He will surely be in the deck but only in the sideboard. He will come in against Valakut decks even though he dies to Valakut itself, and he will come in against Mono Red Aggro decks. So in Block he's not the superstar he is in Standard, but he is very useful against some specific decks nevertheless.

Then of course there is the obvious Stoneforge Mystic. Now the Kor doesn't have to sit and wait to draw its precious equipments. This fine lady was all they needed and now Kor have her with them.

Then the next obvious addition is Basilisk Collar. You can now fetch it with your Stoneforge Mystic, play it and attach it to your Kor Duelist and then watch the fun. And if you fear that the opponent may Spell Pierce your equipment, you can always bring it in with your Stoneforge Mystic's ability. Very nice, no?

Considering all those things, I think the new generation of Kor-mania will look like this:

Kor Me Up
A Future Zendikar Block deck by Nafiz Erman
Creatures
4 Armament Master
4 Kor Duelist
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Steppe Lynx
3 Kor Aeronaut
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Kor Hookmaster
2 Devout Lightcaster
26 cards

Other Spells
4 Brave the Elements
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 Adventuring Gear
2 Basilisk Collar
2 Trusty Machete
14 cards
 
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
12 Plains
20 cards

Armament Master

 

One thing is for certain.  Control will be the deck to beat after Worldwake; as if it wasn't before it. So any deck that won't beat it constantly (and "constantly" is the key word here), won't be a deck to be taken seriously. And how can this be done?

There is actually only one way. You have to be fast. Very fast. You have to be incredibly fast. And that's not the only thing required. You also have to have a way to "gather your forces" after that nasty Day of Judgment hits you.

This is why I think that Kor will be a good option to beat  Control. Kor are fast. They are fast enough to win before the Control player takes control of the game. Turn five will be the decisive turn. That is one turn after they hit you with their Day of Judgment. Where will the game be at that point? What will be the opponent's life total at that point? Ten? Too bad, you just lost the game. Five? Not bad.

And the fact that Day of Judgment can't destroy equipments will work to your advantage. A single Kor creature equipped with one or two equipments will be enough to deal that last five points of damage. Just use your Brave the Elements' wisely and you'll be fine.

Speaking of decks to beat  Control, I think there is one other candidate which is...

 

RED DECK WINS

As I said, the only way to victory against Control is to be very fast. Kor are a good option. They are fast and they have the ability to recover from a Day of Judgment. The other good option is a Red Aggro deck. A turn one Goblin Guide followed by a turn two Plated Geopede will bring the opponent's life total to below ten in no time. And after the opponent hits you with Day of Judgment, you will still continue dealing damage with your burn spells.

You know what they say; Red Deck Wins...

Before Worldwake, to execute that plan players played this deck:

 

Nice, no? 

Of course if we talk about the future of RDW, we must also mention the biggest enemy of it; Kor Firewalker. Currently in Red the only card that can kill that annoying Kor Soldier is Stone Idol Trap. But even that card alone can't be a solution on its own. After you play your first Stone Idol Trap and ambush the opponent's first Kor Firewalker, the opponent will never attack with his Kor Firewalker again and then Stone Idol Trap will be a dead card. So what now? Is RDW dead?! Are we doomed?!?!

Calm down dear readers, there is nothing to be feared of. Protection from Red creatures always existed but RDW always found a way to win. But this also doesn't mean that we will blindly play our RDW decks the same way we used to play. No, we will also prepare ourselves. First of all, we will continue playing Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. There's no doubt about it. But just in case, we will also play this one too:

Blazing Torch plus Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle will be enough to deal with that pesky Kor Soldier.

Okay good, we now have a plan to deal with RDW's biggest enemy. And thus we can concentrate on our own game plan. Which is to be faster than light speed and end the game as quickly as possible. Which new cards do we have to achieve that goal?

The first new addition is Searing Blaze. Three to the dome and three to that annoying creature is too good to pass. Then there is Comet Storm. Normally RDW plays very few lands and this strategy normally cannot afford Comet Storm. But this is a hybrid RDW which combines fast burn spells with the rather slow Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle strategy. So I believe that we can use this new  burn spell in this deck. Not a whole playset maybe but a few won't hurt.

For the sideboard Worldwake offers two nice new cards; Ricochet Trap and Cunning Sparkmage. The only thing that bothers me about Cunning Sparkmage is the existence of Seismic ShudderSeismic Shudder can kill all the tokens of Conqueror's Pledge by itself which is something Cunning Sparkmage cannot do. But on the other hand this new cunning shaman can kill Emeria Angel tokens and that is also important.

So, considering all those things, I think this below would be the new version of RDW:

Red Deck Wins
A Future ZEN Block Deck by Nafiz Erman
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Plated Geopede
2 Goblin Bushwhacker
10 cards

Other Spells
4 Burst Lightning
4 Elemental Appeal
4 Searing Blaze
4 Punishing Fire
3 Spire Barrage
3 Zektar Shrine Expedition
2 Comet Storm
24 cards
 
Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Smoldering Spires
12 Mountain
26 cards

Goblin Guide

 

There are only a few changes I made to the maindeck. The most obvious one is the addition of Goblin Bushwhacker. With Smoldering Spires now doing the job of old Goblin Shortcutter, I think that it's now time to use Mr. Bushwhacko Bushwhacker. The other obvious addition to the maindeck is Searing Blaze of course. I also added two Comet Storms too.

But the sideboard has changed almost completely. First and foremost, Demolish replaced Goblin Ruinblaster. Reason? There are many but I will name you only one: Basilisk Collar. I cannot afford to play both Goblin Ruinblaster AND Tuktuk Scrapper in the sideboard so I combined them and decided to use Demolish.

Runeflare Trap stayed and now it's actually even more important than ever. The new Jace plus Treasure Hunt will set this trap off more often than before. Then I have Cunning Sparkmage for any X/1 creatures, Ricochet Trap against many possible targets and not only Blue, and I also have Blazing Torch especially and specifically against Kor Firewalker.

And that was my v1.0 of RDW. As always, testing will show what to change.

 

WRAP UP

And that is all for this Part I. Without doubt all the older strategies are getting stronger and no, they are going nowhere. I can easily say that  Control looks like to be the deck-to-beat but the other archetypes have also better weapons to fight it.

Vampires will play the extraordinary Abyssal Persecutor; at least my version will. Kor has better equipments and a new creature to get those equipments on table exactly when they are needed. Valakut has many nice additions and it's now less dependant on its volcano-land. And finally RDW also got new nice toys and we will see which one of those decks will be the dominant one in the coming days.

But one thing is sure; the old already established archetypes are better than ever. Making a few adjustments here and there and taking them to the first ZEN Block tournament won't be a bad idea.

 

NEXT WEEK ON ROGUE PLAY
New Kids on the Block Part II

Next week we will take a look at the new deck possibilities for ZEN Block. Old strategies are good without doubt but they are absolutely not the only options.

 Counterburn anyone? Or how about some midrange  Rock? Can we build a Control deck using the best two planeswalkers of the format? Is Mono Green possible? Or how about  Aggro? Can a Reanimator deck be built for the format? And how about a  Aggro? Yes I know what I'm saying; a Aggro and not Control. Is it possible?

Next week dear readers we will talk about all of those. Oh and also we will talk about the allies. Fast allies, slow allies, Aggro allies, midrange allies, milling allies, Control allies, allies allies and more allies. Next week we will also go over this new craziness too for sure.

Thanks for reading.

See you online
Nafiz Erman, aka Lord Erman 

19 Comments

ricochet trap by rayjinn at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 04:20
rayjinn's picture

im pretty sure ricochet trap doesn't work against spreading seas. since it's a permanent when it comes into play and then makes it's way onto enchanting it's target.

ricochet trap works like he says by Kuriboh (not verified) at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 04:36
Kuriboh's picture

While on the stack, Auras are spells with targets. It is legal to change the target of Spreading Seas with Ricochet Trap

Yep...one of my favorite old by elambert24 at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 16:56
elambert24's picture

Yep...one of my favorite old school moves was to Divert my opponents Squirrel's Nest onto my land during the Odyssey days of Squirrel Opposition decks.

"Of course you cannot Clone by leonvanbon (not verified) at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 07:35
leonvanbon's picture

"Of course you cannot Clone shroud creatures"
One simple comment: You CAN clone shroud creatures, Clone doen´t make any target.

Thank you for your articles, its a pleasure to read them.

I was actually talking about by Lord Erman at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 07:59
Lord Erman's picture

I was actually talking about Rite of Replication at that part and was saying that you can't use it on shroud creatures because it says "target creature".

But maybe I used the wrong words there. Thanks for noticing and for the comment.

LE

Umm...I may be wrong but I by elambert24 at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 16:51
elambert24's picture

Umm...I may be wrong but I don't think a red creature equipped with Blazing Torch can target the Kor Firewalker. I realize the damage is from the Torch and thus colorless but the equipment grants the ability to the red creature which would have to target the Firewalker to use said ability and since the creature is red, the Firewalker would not be a legal target.

Wouldn't Kitesail Apprentice by Anonymous (not verified) at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 17:04
Anonymous's picture

Wouldn't Kitesail Apprentice be a better choice than Steppe Lynx in your Kor list? Or is it just my dislike of non-tribe creatures in a tribal deck getting the best of me?

Nice catch elambert, I also by Steve (not verified) at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 17:10
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Nice catch elambert, I also believe that to be true. Though Valakut could deal with the Kor Firewalkers..

Uhm... yes, he's right. by Lord Erman at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 17:25
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Uhm... yes, he's right. Forget Blazing Torch, it wasen't a good idea in the first place :). Just replace it with Expedition Map to get your Valakut in time.

I prefer to play Steppe Lynx because of those 8 fetchlands and 3 Adventuring Gears in deck which have great synergy with Steppe Lynx. Surely Armament Master doesn't help the cat, but our aim is to lower our opponent's life total as fast as we can, and Steppe Lynx is better than Kitesail Apprentice for that purpose.

LE

It depends on how often you by Anonymous (not verified) at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 18:06
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It depends on how often you attack turn 2 with a geared up lynx vs say a turn 5 lynx with Armament Master in play. Clearly the early beats go to the lynx by a few points of damage, but mid game I think the flying on the kitesail would be key. The damage is no different once an AM is in play equiped.

Well, the white weenie deck by ArchGenius at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 18:13
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Well, the white weenie deck doesn't want to have a mid to late game. The deck usually wants to win by turn 5.

The question is not whether Kitesail Apprentice should replace the Lynx. The question is whether a couple Kitesail Apprentices should replace some of the more expensive creatures in the deck.

With cards like DoJ and the by Anonymous (not verified) at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 20:31
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With cards like DoJ and the Ascension in his side board my assumption is plenty of games do get to turns 5+. But I definitely do see the merit of keeping the Lynxes and dropping another card to fit in the kitesail... maybe the skyfisher. The list seems to be lacking very many permanents I'd actually *want* to return to my hand.

I have no clue why he has DoJ by ArchGenius at Tue, 02/16/2010 - 23:58
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I have no clue why he has DoJ in the sideboard. It will almost always hurt you more than your opponent.

Ascension is used as a sideboard card against U/W, but it is a very bad sideboard strategy. Between Kor Sanctifier, Spell Pierce, and Into the Roil, the Ascension will never activate.

Of course the main problem with White Weenie is that it has very few ways to deal with a DoJ.

I actually assembled close to by Anonymous (not verified) at Wed, 02/17/2010 - 04:34
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I actually assembled close to his Kor list tonight and played about 15 games with it. The only notable changes were the Worldwake cards and I'm short 3 fetches (replaced with kabira crossroads).

Of those 15 games the lynx was stellar in exactly one, good in a bunch and bad in a few. Maybe the few extra fetches would make it better as would the ability to tutor up the gear when its the missing piece. I'd really have to see how the kitesail played in its place though. I did see how awesome the +2/+2 from an equipped AM could be... having another Kor can't be too bad.

After playing I definitely wouldn't take out the skyfisher, he's a really nice option. Adding the crossroads helped that I think, having a target to send back to gain more life. I also liked the spidersilk net with him. I had that in as a placeholder for the basilisk collar. Turn 4 play two skyfishers bouncing the net. Turn 5 play AM, equip the net, attack for 8... that was nice.

The other thing is 20 lands it too few given the lynx and all the equipment. I would get stuck on 2 or 3 lands far too often. Cutting 3-4 spells for land is a must, IMO.

As far as DoJ is concerned I don't think it would be that bad playing around it. The plan isn't really getting an army of weenies out. Two or three that you buff really big with equipment and AM does the job pretty well. A double striking, buffed duelist takes life out in BIG chunks.

BECAAAAAAAUSE sometimes you by Zwick. (not verified) at Wed, 02/17/2010 - 00:09
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BECAAAAAAAUSE sometimes you just cant race a bloodwitch. You slow roll your hand and you walk them into a bloodwitch or two, and then DOJ them off, I understand this is a narrow strategy that most of you guys can't possibly understand, but sometimes, you just dont get the amazingly aggressive hand that you wanted.

My gut tells me that if your by ArchGenius at Wed, 02/17/2010 - 10:28
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My gut tells me that if your opponent is vampires and has a Bloodwitch out and you can't race them, then a DoJ is more or less going to delay the inevitable rather than get you to a win. Post Worldwake I would much rather go an equipment strategy (Torch and Collar) than DoJ.

However I know you have much more experience with this deck than I do, so I defer to your judgement.

Running sweepers in the by middleman35 (not verified) at Thu, 02/18/2010 - 00:49
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Running sweepers in the Sideboard of aggro-ish decks is an old strategy. Essentially you bring it in for aggro mirrors, let your opponent over extend, playing just enough creatures to defend, then blow up the world and drop your hand.

Basically all of the Vamps by Metalman (not verified) at Thu, 02/18/2010 - 16:06
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Basically all of the Vamps decks that do well have main deck Mind Sludge. Most seem to run 3 on average. Also, the WW Kor decks seem to run 4 Adv Gear and 4 Machete. May want to update your "standard" decklists.

I cant see the red weenie deck doing well with Kor Firewalker post Worldwake. Especially since the Kor decks and the UW control decks get some great cards. Demolish has to be terrible in that deck, though, doesnt it? The red deck wins versus Valkuut by outracing Valkuut coming online...but now your going to draw a LD spell that will gum up your hand and never has the potential to do damage like the Goblin did? Seems bad.

For the Kor deck there may be a few additional things to consider:
-With Hada Freeblade you could go with an ally sub-theme with Kazandu Blademaster. Join The Ranks may be techy with those two.
-Marshal's Anthem seems like an auto-include of at least one-of
-Kitesail Apprentice should at least be looked at as a replacement for Kor Aeronaut

For the UW Control deck I'd think

-M

Dam you early submitting and by Metalman (not verified) at Thu, 02/18/2010 - 16:24
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Dam you early submitting and no editing ability...

I was going to say something about Admonition Angel for UW control. May even be a good card for mono-white control as it gives you an in-color answer to Valkuut.