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By: one million words, Pete Jahn
Dec 15 2017 1:00pm
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State of the Program for December 15th 2017
 
In the News
Bugged Vintage Masters Cards: A few important cards appear to be bugged in VM.   Most notably, Cursed Scroll doesn’t work.  Masticore worked to well (failing to discard did not kill it) and has been removed from the packs. Crovax the Cursed is also broken, and not in a good way.  So don't pick these, and if you do, don't play them.  These cards are not yet in the Bug Blog.
 
Great Designer Search 3: Wizards was started a sign-up for the third Great Designer Search. This is a contest, with the prize being an internship at Wizards, and possibly a job there. Several current and former R&D members have earned jobs making Magic cards through the previous great Designer Searches. Details here. Sign-up is here.
 
Wizards Takes Action against Bullying: Wizards announced that they had taken action against several players for violating the Magic code of conduct. The “announcement” provided few details, but the list of suspended players was updated. Jeremy – the troll that viciously attacked Christine Sprankle and many others – received a lifetime ban. A few others have received shorter bans. The announcement was titled “A First Step”, which is promising.
 
Jar Deck “Wins” Gauntlet of Greatness: Wizards pulled the Jar deck out of the Gauntlet of Greatness early in the week. The other decks in the format had few ways of dealing with the Jar deck, which basically meant that the Jar deck was just goldfishing. Since the whole problem with Jar was that it was a turn two deck - and often won on turn one – it was busted. And emergency banned once again. (I discuss JarGrim in the Opinion Section, below.)
 
The Timeline
This is a list of things we have been promised, or we just want to see coming back.   Another good source for dates and times is the calendar and the weekly blog, while the best source for known bugs is the bug blog which appears sporadically on MTGO.com. Not listed, but important: Wizards offers either one or two online PTQs each weekend, with qualifiers running the three days prior to the PTQ.
 

Upcoming Events
Timing
Scheduled Downtime
December 13th,
Constructed Leagues End
January 15, 2018
Sealed Leagues End
January 15, 2018
Rivals of Ixalan
January 21, 2018
Core Set Magic 2019
July 20, 2018
25th Anniversary Edition Masters
March 16, 2018
Next B&R Announcement
January 15, 2018
SOI and EMN Redemption Ends
April 28, 2018
Ixalan Redemption Ends
May 23, 2018
Rivals of Ixalan Redemption Ends
May 23, 2018

 
WotC Covered Events
Wizards will be streaming a number of events next year, including all four Pro Tours, the Magic Championship and World Magic Cup, along with 35 Grand Prix. Since Wizards does not schedule premier events on prerelease weekends and certain holidays, that means they will be streaming an event nearly every weekend. Here’s the schedule we have so far.
·       Jan. 6–7: Grand Prix Santa Clara
·       Jan. 20–21: Grand Prix Indianapolis
·       Jan. 27–28: Grand Prix London
·       Feb. 3–5: Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan in Bilbao, Spain
·       Feb. 10–11: Grand Prix Toronto
·       Feb. 17–18: Grand Prix Lyon
·       Feb. 24–25: Grand Prix Memphis
·       March 2–4: Magic Online Championship in Renton, Washington
·       March 10–11: Grand Prix Madrid
·       April 6–8: Grand Prix Seattle (double-GP weekend)
·       April 14–15: Grand Prix Memphis
·       April 28–29: Grand Prix Bologna
·       May 5–6: Grand Prix Dallas
·       May 11–13: Grand Prix Birmingham (double-GP weekend)
·       May 26–27: Grand Prix Washington, DC
·       June 1–3: Pro Tour Dominaria in Richmond, Virginia
·       June 9–10: Grand Prix Copenhagen
·       June 15–17: Grand Prix Las Vegas (double-GP weekend)
·       June 23–24: Grand Prix Pittsburgh
·       July 7–8: Grand Prix São Paulo
·       July 21–22: Grand Prix Sacramento
·       July 28–29: Grand Prix Minneapolis
·       Aug. 3–5: Pro Tour 25th Anniversary in Minneapolis, Minnesota
·       Aug. 11–12: Grand Prix Brussels
·       Aug. 18–19: Grand Prix Los Angeles
·       Aug. 25–26: Grand Prix Prague
·       Aug. 31–Sept. 2: Grand Prix Richmond (double-GP weekend)
·       Sept. 8–9: Grand Prix Detroit
·       Sept. 15–16: Grand Prix Stockholm
·       Weekend of Sept. 23–24: 2018 Magic World Championship and Team Series Championship in Las Vegas, Nevada (exact event dates TBD)
·       Oct. 6–7: Grand Prix Montreal
·       Oct. 13–14: Grand Prix Denver
·       Oct. 27–28: Grand Prix Lille
·       Nov. 3–4: Grand Prix Atlanta
·       Nov. 9–11: Pro Tour "Spaghetti" in Atlanta
·       Nov. 17–18: Grand Prix Milwaukee
·       Dec. 8–9: Grand Prix Liverpool
·       Dec. 14–16: World Magic Cup in Barcelona, Spain
 
2018 Magic Online Championship Series
Complete details, including schedule, rules, and which online events qualify you for which online or paper events is here.   Here are the main dates for the next quarter:
 

Event Date
Event Type
Event Format
Invites
Saturday, December 16
Monthly
Standard
February 10 MOCS Playoff
Friday, December 29
Monthly
Ixalan Sealed
February 10 MOCS Playoff
Saturday, December 30
Open
Ixalan Sealed
Magic Online Championship, Pro Tour Dominaria, PT Challenge at Pro Tour Dominaria
Saturday, January 6
Open
Ixalan Sealed
Magic Online Championship, Pro Tour Dominaria, PT Challenge at Pro Tour Dominaria
Sunday, January 7
Monthly
Modern
February 10 MOCS Playoff
Saturday, January 27
Monthly
Standard
February 10 MOCS Playoff
Sunday, January 28
Monthly
Ixalan-Rivals of Ixalan Sealed
February 10 MOCS Playoff
Saturday, February 10
Playoff
Standard
Magic Online Championship, Pro Tour Dominaria, PT Challenge at Pro Tour Dominaria

 
Magic Online Format Challenges
These are high stakes events that happen every weekend.   They cost 25 Tix / 250 play points, and last a number of rounds based on participation (assume 5-8), plus a single elimination Top 8. Details, including prize payouts, are here. Start times are:
 

Event Type
Start Time
Saturday, 8:00 am PT
Saturday, 10:00 am PT
Saturday, 12:00 pm PT
Sunday, 8:00 am PT
Sunday, 10:00 am PT

 
Flashback, Throwback Standard and CUBE for 2017
Wizards will be offering either a flashback draft league, a flashback Standard gauntlet, a CUBE league or prerelease / Release events each week.   Here’s the schedule so far.
 

Flashback and Such Rotation
Begins
Ends
Vintage Masters with real power
December 13th
December 20th
Vintage Cube
December 20th
January 15th
[time off for Rivals of Ixalan events]
January 15th
???

 
The Flashback Leagues are still draft, and still you-keep-the-cards. They are 12 TIX / product plus 2 TIX / 120 Play Points. However, they are no longer single elimination. Now you play until you have three wins or two losses. Prizes are 150 play points for three wins and 70 Play points for 2 wins. The leagues run one week.
 
The Throwback Standard Gauntlet events provide a random choice of prebuilt decks from a past standard environment. These will function like the Pro Tour Gauntlets – you won’t need to own the cards. The entry fee is 10 TIX or 100 Play Points. Prizes are in Play Points: 150 for 3-0, 100 for 2-1, 40 for 1-2 and 10 play points as a bad beats award. 
 
Opinion Section: How Bad Was JarGrim?
 
Wizards had to remove the JarGrim deck from the Gauntlet of Greatness. It was too good. JarGrim has always been too good. It is even worse in a metagame that is not prepared for it. Of course, JarGrim was legal for exactly two weeks, before Wizards killed it with the first (and only) emergency banning in Magic history.
 
Way back in 2005, I wrote about the five most broken and abusive decks in Magic history. My choice for the most broken ever was JarGrim. (The article here.)  Now that was back before Affinity and Caw-Blade, but those decks were nothing like the decks in that series.   Stasis was slow torture, and several of the others were awful to play against, but nothing was like JarGrim. 
 
I love playing JarGrim. Every game is Magic the Puzzling. And I do play it, once in a while – as a solitaire game. I goldfish it – because I don’t have anyone I hate enough to make them play against that deck.  
 
I played back when combo was a thing. I never played against CadBloom, but I did play, and play against, Trix, Fruity Pebbles, Replenish, Blackjack, Sabre Bargain, Cocoa Pebbles, Wheaties, Full English Breakfast and on and on. I remember the tension, but I also remember the boredom. Many of those games involved ten minute turns – and that is not exaggeration. Fortunately, modern Magic has no decks that force you to spend ten minutes watching your opponent manipulate their deck, then kill you. I remember games where I played Forest, Birds of Paradise, then died on turn two, many minutes later.
 
The Standard JarGrim deck was one of the worst offenders. It took a long time to win with Megrim
 
But the Standard JarGrim deck was not the worst (or most fun) deck out there. You see, back then we could also play an Extended version of the deck. Extended was – well, think Modern with true duals. Back then Extended was Ice Age through the then current set, plus the dual lands. And the Extended version of JarGrim was even more busted than the Standard version. A lot more busted.
 
Here’s part of a tournament report I wrote a long, long time ago. 
 
My turn one: Play Underground Sea, Mana Vault, Mox Diamond (discarding a land), Lotus Petal (holding Vampiric Tutor.)
 
Opponent: Savannah, Mox Diamond, River Boa. (I Vampiric Tutor for Tinker end of turn.)  
 
My turn two: play Ancient Tomb, tap Mana Vault & Mox Diamond, Tinker Mox for Memory Jar, then crack Jar (We both set aside our hands and draw seven new cards) --
 
My turn continues: Lotus Petal into Brainstorm to put another Tinker to the top of my library, play Lotus Petal, blow it, play Dark Ritual, Mana Vault, Mana Vault, Mox Diamond, Memory Jar 
 
I then sacrifice Jar #2 for another seven cards (including the Tinker I Brainstormed onto my library) and play Vault, tap Mox Diamond for U, then Tinker away Mana Vault for Lion's Eye Diamond. I play Yawgmoth's Will and sacrifice LED for mana in response. I discard my hand. 
 
At this point, I had a Mox Diamond, Underground Sea and Ancient Tomb untapped. 
 
Yawgmoth’s Will resolved, so I start playing my Graveyard. First LED, which I sacrifice for BBB. Next I play the Lotus Petals, Dark Ritual, Mana Vault, tap Mox Diamond for U and Tinker away the tapped Vault for Memory Jar, then Vampiric Tutor for Megrim, and blow Memory Jar # 3 to draw another seven cards.
 
I play Megrim. Then LED, LED, Lotus Petal, and Defense Grid, and went to end step.
 
The Memory Jar #3 EoT trigger resolves: PT Junk discards the seven cards drawn from that Jar, and Megrim does 14 points. And then the trigger from Memory Jar number 2 kills my opponent.
 
Turn two. A slow game. And I only drew 29 cards that game, and played nearly all of them – some of them twice thanks to Yawgmoth’s Will.   Nothing broken about that, right?
 
Back in the day, we said that shuffling up was the early game, resolving mulligans was the mid game and turn one was endgame.
 
If you play, or even watch, Vintage or Legacy nowadays, you may have noticed something about the cards I played. I played a multiple copies of cards that are now restricted in Vintage. In point of fact, the deck has a lot of cards that are banned in Vintage. A few more – like Memory Jar - were restricted for years. Once you get past the 16 lands, the Megrim and the four Defense Grids, all of the remaining cards were or are restricted. All of them. Here’s the deck:
JarGrim
Randy Buehler, Winner, Grand Prix Vienna 1999 - 60 Cards Total
Instant
4 Vampiric Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mystical Tutor
13 cards

Sorcery
4 Tinker
2 Yawgmoth's Will
6 cards
Artifact
4 Memory Jar
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mana Vault
4 Defense Grid
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Diamond
24 cards

Enchantment
1 Megrim
1 cards
Land
4 City of Brass
2 Gemstone Mine
4 Underground Sea
3 Underground River
3 Ancient Tomb
13 cards
 

I still love goldfishing decks like this, but I’m kinda glad Magic isn’t like this anymore.

 
Cutting Edge Tech
 
Standard: We had a Standard PTQ on MTGO last weekend. The Top 8 had two Sultai Constrictor decks, 5 Temur Energy decks and a lone mono—black aggro deck. Not the most diverse format I have ever seen.

Modern: 
Wizards gave us a Modern GP last weekend. The finals featured a TitanShift mirror match, so you know what the featured deck is gonna be. Coverage is here
 

Legacy
: Legacy events happened worldwide last weekend, but most were small. With so many choices, I looked for interesting decks (and by “interesting”, I mean decks I would play. Besides Leovold BUG, that is.)  This week’s event was won with some old school heat.
 
Burn
75 Cards Total
Creature
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
10 cards

Instant
4 Searing Blaze
4 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fireblast
16 cards
Sorcery
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
12 cards

Enchantment
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 cards
Land
10 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
18 cards
 


Sideboard
2 Pyroblast
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Vexing Shusher
1 Volcanic Fallout
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Smash to Smithereens
15 cards

Vintage
: The VSL playoffs are over. Reid duke beat Kevin Cron in the finals. Video Coverage is on Twitch and YouTube. The playoffs required each player to submit three unique decks. Both finals players submitted a Shops deck, a storm deck and something else. Decklists are here.  Here’s another favorite.
 
 
Card Prices
 
Note: all my prices come from the fine folks at MTGOTraders.com. These are retail prices, and generally the price of the lowest priced, actively traded version. (Prices for some rare promo versions are not updated when not in stock, so I skip those.)   You can get these cards at MTGOTraders.com web store, or from their bots: MTGOTradersBot(#) (they have bots 1-10), CardCaddy and CardWareHouse, or sell cards to MTGOTradersBuyBot(#) (they have buybots 1-4). I have bought cards from MTGOTraders for over a decade now, and have never been overcharged or disappointed.
 
Standard staples: Standard prices are down this week. Not a lot of activity. The list – pretty much any card that has had a price of $5 or higher for a while, or is surging, is really short compared to years past.
 

Standard Cards
Price
Last Week
Change
% Change
$4.75
$5.57
($0.82)
-15%
$8.23
$7.38
$0.85
12%
$7.74
$8.59
($0.85)
-10%
$7.34
$7.01
$0.33
5%
$29.11
$32.11
($3.00)
-9%
$7.00
$6.92
$0.08
1%
$11.79
$10.74
$1.05
10%
$5.87
$6.37
($0.50)
-8%
$7.83
$7.76
$0.07
1%
$25.03
$30.70
($5.67)
-18%
$14.59
$13.89
$0.70
5%
$11.10
$13.36
($2.26)
-17%
$9.98
$8.90
$1.08
12%

Modern staples:  Modern prices were mixed this week. The format seems to be in a pretty good place. Titan Shift had a lot of success, so the price of Scapeshift jumped.   
 

Modern Cards
Price
Last Week
Change
% Change
$13.83
$12.84
$0.99
8%
$23.97
$26.57
($2.60)
-10%
$32.04
$31.21
$0.83
3%
$30.97
$30.82
$0.15
0%
$16.90
$18.18
($1.28)
-7%
$17.24
$19.89
($2.65)
-13%
$21.70
$15.50
$6.20
40%
$38.25
$33.62
$4.63
14%
$29.92
$26.21
$3.71
14%
$21.77
$20.87
$0.90
4%
$38.52
$36.51
$2.01
6%
$62.74
$62.99
($0.25)
0%
$33.05
$32.51
$0.54
2%
$61.86
$66.49
($4.63)
-7%
$24.94
$27.56
($2.62)
-10%
$32.00
$32.33
($0.33)
-1%
$27.27
$20.97
$6.30
30%
$28.22
$27.91
$0.31
1%
$25.92
$24.73
$1.19
5%

Legacy and Vintage: Vintage and Legacy prices generally down again, but not to an excessive amount.  Edgar Markov took off last week, because he was so new, but is dropping back to reasonable levels.
 

Legacy / Vintage Cards
Price
Last Week
Change
% Change
$43.06
$50.24
($7.18)
-14%
$20.90
$20.59
$0.31
2%
$15.48
$15.58
($0.10)
-1%
Edgar Markov
$29.44
$40.44
($11.00)
-27%
$86.24
$89.37
($3.13)
-4%
$40.71
$41.23
($0.52)
-1%
$29.81
$32.38
($2.57)
-8%
$22.14
$25.07
($2.93)
-12%
$25.95
$33.03
($7.08)
-21%
$40.83
$40.83
$0.00
0%
$26.27
$25.82
$0.45
2%
$25.63
$29.64
($4.01)
-14%
$58.34
$60.30
($1.96)
-3%
$20.02
$19.62
$0.40
2%
$65.38
$62.20
$3.18
5%
$19.07
$19.18
($0.11)
-1%
$19.94
$20.90
($0.96)
-5%
$28.87
$38.95
($10.08)
-26%

Standard Legal Sets: This table tracks the cost of a single copy of every card in each Standard legal set, plus Treasure Chests and the current booster pack. I’ll keep tracking these because they are interesting (at least to me).  
 

Complete Set
Price
Last Week
Change
% Change
Aether Revolt
$65.75
$67.51
($1.76)
-3%
Amonkhet
$74.78
$76.95
($2.17)
-3%
Ixalan
$73.07
$72.92
$0.15
0%
Hour of Devastation
$55.11
$64.10
($8.99)
-14%
Kaladesh
$101.76
$106.45
($4.69)
-4%
Treasure Chest
$2.34
$2.47
($0.13)
-5%
Ixalan Booster
$3.12
$3.12
$0.00
0%

 
The Good Stuff
 
The following is a list of all the non-promo, non-foil cards on MTGO that retail for more than $25 per card. These are the big ticket items in the world of MTGO. Nothing is above a hundred bucks. The number of cards on the list is up slightly again this week.
 

Name
Set
Rarity
 Price
Exploration
 UZ
Rare
 $ 86.24
Mox Opal
 MM2
Mythic Rare
 $ 69.21
True-Name Nemesis
 C13
Rare
 $ 66.58
True-Name Nemesis
 PZ1
Mythic Rare
 $ 65.38
Mox Opal
 SOM
Mythic Rare
 $ 65.29
Liliana of the Veil
 MM3
Mythic Rare
 $ 63.09
Liliana of the Veil
 ISD
Mythic Rare
 $ 62.74
Mox Opal
 MS2
Bonus
 $ 61.86
Rishadan Port
 MM
Rare
 $ 58.34
Mox Diamond
 TPR
Mythic Rare
 $ 54.65
Force of Will
 MED
Rare
 $ 48.74
Wasteland
 TE
Uncommon
 $ 46.84
Force of Will
 EMA
Mythic Rare
 $ 43.49
Black Lotus
 VMA
Bonus
 $ 43.06
Force of Will
 VMA
Rare
 $ 42.53
Wasteland
 TPR
Rare
 $ 41.54
Misdirection
 MM
Rare
 $ 40.83
Force of Will
 MS3
Special
 $ 40.71
Wasteland
 EMA
Rare
 $ 39.42
Engineered Explosives
 5DN
Rare
 $ 39.27
Mox Diamond
 ST
Rare
 $ 39.23
Karn Liberated
 NPH
Mythic Rare
 $ 39.04
Wasteland
 EXP
Mythic Rare
 $ 38.87
Karn Liberated
 MM2
Mythic Rare
 $ 38.52
Engineered Explosives
 MMA
Rare
 $ 38.31
Engineered Explosives
 MS2
Bonus
 $ 38.25
Dark Depths
 V16
Mythic Rare
 $ 35.62
Scalding Tarn
 EXP
Mythic Rare
 $ 34.17
Unmask
 V16
Mythic Rare
 $ 34.07
Scalding Tarn
 ZEN
Rare
 $ 33.24
Liliana, the Last Hope
 EMN
Mythic Rare
 $ 33.05
Underground Sea
 ME2
Rare
 $ 32.23
Celestial Colonnade
 WWK
Rare
 $ 32.04
Scalding Tarn
 MM3
Rare
 $ 32.00
Chalice of the Void
 MS2
Bonus
 $ 31.57
Chalice of the Void
 MMA
Rare
 $ 31.47
Chalice of the Void
 MRD
Rare
 $ 30.97
Ensnaring Bridge
 MS2
Bonus
 $ 30.64
Ensnaring Bridge
 8ED
Rare
 $ 30.56
Underground Sea
 ME4
Rare
 $ 30.43
Ensnaring Bridge
 7E
Rare
 $ 30.37
Ensnaring Bridge
 ST
Rare
 $ 29.92
Gaea's Cradle
 UZ
Rare
 $ 29.81
Mystic Confluence
 PZ1
Rare
 $ 29.73
Edgar Markov
 PZ2
Mythic Rare
 $ 29.44
The Scarab God
 MS3
Special
 $ 29.31
Chandra, Torch of Defiance
 KLD
Mythic Rare
 $ 29.11
Tarmogoyf
 FUT
Rare
 $ 28.37
Surgical Extraction
 MM2
Rare
 $ 28.27
Surgical Extraction
 NPH
Rare
 $ 28.22
Gorilla Shaman
 ALL
Common
 $ 27.31
Scapeshift
 MOR
Rare
 $ 27.27
Noble Hierarch
 CON
Rare
 $ 26.41
Mox Diamond
 V10
Mythic Rare
 $ 26.27
Tarmogoyf
 MM2
Mythic Rare
 $ 26.13
Tarmogoyf
 MM3
Mythic Rare
 $ 26.02
Leovold, Emissary of Trest
 PZ2
Mythic Rare
 $ 25.95
Tarmogoyf
 MMA
Mythic Rare
 $ 25.92
Blood Moon
 MS3
Special
 $ 25.90
Mox Sapphire
 VMA
Bonus
 $ 25.63
The Scarab God
 HOU
Mythic Rare
 $ 25.03

The big number is the retail price of a playset (4 copies) of every card available on MTGO. Assuming you bought the least expensive versions available, the cost of owning a playset of every card on MTGO is approximately $ 19,950. That’s down about $390 from last week. 
 
Weekly Highlights
 
Nothing yet, but I hope to get time to draft some VMA this weekend. I considered bringing my laptop to work, but that might be pushing it. 
 
PRJ
 
“One Million Words” on MTGO 
 
This series is an ongoing tribute to Erik “Hamtastic” Friborg.
 
HammyBot Super Sale: HammyBot was set up to sell off Erik Friborg’s collection, with all proceeds going to his wife and son. So far, HammyBot has raised over $8,000, but there are a lot of cards left in the collection. Those cards are being sold at MTGOTrader’s Buy Price.   

38 Comments

"7. Do not advertise in Magic by Hearts at Sat, 12/16/2017 - 11:48
Hearts's picture

"7. Do not advertise in Magic Online. "

https://company.wizards.com/legal/code-conduct

This means bots, which have always been in conflict with terms of use (automated 3d party software is illegal)-
But wotc have ignored penalizing/stopping/hindering them (which would be simple), which is a breach in itself, and that is and have always been a big problem.

You should also read the by Lagrange at Sat, 12/16/2017 - 13:01
Lagrange's picture

You should also read the section on ‘Explanation of Disciplinary Escalation and Procedures’. If you are in violation WotC may do ‘something’. The keyword is MAY. So even if you are in violation they MAY not do anything about it.

re by Hearts at Mon, 12/18/2017 - 09:50
Hearts's picture

1: That section does not say what you say it says.

2: In the event it did what you say would still be uninteresting.

You asked the question. If by Lagrange at Mon, 12/18/2017 - 11:11
Lagrange's picture

You asked the question. If the answer to your question is uninteresting, it is most likely because the question is uninteresting.

I asked no question. by Hearts at Mon, 12/18/2017 - 11:37
Hearts's picture

I asked no question.

1: Even if you did not ask a by Lagrange at Mon, 12/18/2017 - 12:07
Lagrange's picture

1: Even if you did not ask a question you are wrong. When WotC ignores what could be a violation then that is no breach of anything. They have never promised to punish violations. They MAY punish violations.

2: What you linked to does not say what you claim. It is not clear that bots violate advertising rules.

re by Hearts at Mon, 12/18/2017 - 12:09
Hearts's picture

I wont reply to you anymore and in the future unless I see something constructive in what you write.

Just like above, I will be by Lagrange at Mon, 12/18/2017 - 12:28
Lagrange's picture

Just like above, I will be happy to provide constructive criticism also in the future when you are wrong. Unlike the issue of warnings at tournaments in paper magic, I think that the issue with bots is interesting.

"Wizards Takes Action against by MichelleWong at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 08:06
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"Wizards Takes Action against Bullying"

The irony - Wizards has no realisation that it is the greatest bully of all (or perhaps it does realise this in its heart of hearts, but because it's in a position of power it knows it can get away with it, typical bullying behaviour by the way).

If Wizards applied the same standards to those members of the community who are aligned with it politically or who fit within its "identity politics", the amount of lifetime bans would go through the roof overnight.

I challenge anyone in the PureMTG Community to look at the evidence (yes that would involve spending equal time researching both sides, not just focusing on the dogpiling, the mantras and the slogans), and come to a different conclusion. What inconvenient things facts are, eh?

You should write an article by Lagrange at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 08:16
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You should write an article showcasing the 'evidence'. Yes, it would take some time, but just saying that the evidence is there and that we can find it ourselves leaves too much up to our own interpretation and researching skills.

Challenge accepted. I have by AJ_Impy at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 11:12
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Challenge accepted. I have examined the evidence available at length. I have witnessed the conduct of both sides. have watched what both sides have put out pertaining to the matter in question. I have looked through forums and message boards across the web to get a fully holistic view taking into account all perspectives.

My conclusion differs strongly from yours.

It would take hours of my by MichelleWong at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 09:55
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It would take hours of my time to discuss all the evidence. Sorry, you can do the research yourself, I have a full-time job and I have spent already way too much of my time examining both sides of the story (wasted 10 hours doing so, which I will never get back, although I can say that it was an eye-opening experience). Also, do you think an article presenting the side of Jeremy Hambly of Unsleeved Media would ever get published on this website (honestly)? (happy to be corrected if wrong).

After I looked at one side of the story (Christine Sprankle's and Wizards and Tolarian Community College and Mana Leek etc), I thought "Good thing that Wizards is taking action against bullying!". When I researched the other side of the story, I came to the conclusion: "Boy was I fooled". Please note that this is not an attack on Pete Jahn, as I also shared the same view until I spent 10 hours investigating...

I absolutely would not by JXClaytor at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 11:02
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I absolutely would not support an article presenting the side of Jeremy, mainly because I have also done the same research and have come to a different conclusion than you. That's okay. I'm not giving a platform for anyone to defend a serial harasser. They can do that on their own sites.

We also don't stand by for hate speech here, you'll notice a distinct lack of an archive from an anti-semite pauper writer (Dan Horning), because as soon as he started popping off with his hate speech, we cut ties and deleted it. I stand by that decision too.

Glad I didn't take Lagrange by MichelleWong at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 17:58
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I will not post further since there is no chance of genuine discussion here. And as I said to Lagrange, I wouldn't have the time anyway as this issue is more complicated than one-liners and labels. AJ, sadly we cannot have a genuine discussion about this issue as your view would be permitted and mine would be silenced.

(I am though saddened that Joshua felt the need to make reference to anti-semitism (Dan Horning whose views are clearly despicable based on what he actually said) but Dan has nothing to do with this issue about Jeremy. If Jeremy was actually anti-semitic or a serial harrasser, I would abandon him like a hotcake as I could not be more pro-Jewish or more opposed to bullying.

I mentioned Dan as an example by JXClaytor at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 19:36
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I mentioned Dan as an example of not being fine with hate speech hear. I stand by that. We're a family friendly site, and reasonable.

Your views are not silenced, that's why your replies defending him have not been deleted. I'm just not hosting an article about a fellow that has been asked to no longer show up to events. If he wants redemption, cool, I understand that, as I was much like him in my own past, but he will do it on his own platform, and we're not going to be used to prop up a campaign of hate and negativity that has attacked cosplayers, content creators and other players.

Poke me in the client, we can by AJ_Impy at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 20:13
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Poke me in the client, we can very easily have a discussion if you truly wish, I'm always happy to listen.

Hi AJ, if you have looked by MichelleWong at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 22:59
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Hi AJ, if you have looked into the evidence and came to a different conclusion to me, I respect that entirely. We all have a right to review the data and come to our own conclusions.

If I see you on Magic Online, I would prefer a 4 player commander duel between my Sheoldred and your Roon (or another commander of yours if my memory is wrong and you have no Roon) and 2 other players.

Respectfully, I don't think by Paul Leicht at Tue, 12/19/2017 - 23:25
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Respectfully, I don't think many readers on this site will agree with you on this. Many of us, have independently come to our own conclusions without needing to resort to herd mentality. Watching Hambly's videos was enough for me to never want to hear from him again.

I will say that WOTC's response could be taken as heavy handed but imho it was appropriate given the outcry and the actions that precipitated it. Not to mention the actions of his followers and those who used the chaos to spread their own venom and negativity.

And, I say respectfully because I do respect your views because you have come across as earnest in the time I've known you through mtgo. And this may be more of a matter of what we value rather than aspects of evidence that one person has access to that the others don't.

I look forward to any kind of game you want to play when I am online if I have the time. Maybe I can be a 3rd in your 4 player match (I have a few commander lists still legal.)

There is gonna be an article by JXClaytor at Wed, 12/20/2017 - 02:48
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There is gonna be an article on Breitbart about this soonish.

I am not sure I'd bother by Paul Leicht at Wed, 12/20/2017 - 06:50
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I am not sure I'd bother calling anything posted on Breitbart an article but that's mighty generous of you. I will pay it the same amount of heed I pay all their "articles".

When your movement is being by JXClaytor at Wed, 12/20/2017 - 18:09
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When your movement is being written about on that site, you have to consider if you're on the right side or not.

"Article" by TheWolf at Wed, 12/20/2017 - 19:18
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Well, it certainly was an "article". I find the whole situation fascinating from a psychology point of view; like, what makes some people side with Jeremy, thinking he is the victim, while what makes others side with the content creators? Both sides think the situation is black and white, but both see it differently. The human mind is weird.

I'm gonna go with the side by JXClaytor at Wed, 12/20/2017 - 19:46
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I'm gonna go with the side that doesn't have the Daily Stormer writing about it.

I'm comfortable with my decision.

This is really rather silly by Paul Leicht at Thu, 12/21/2017 - 00:17
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This is really rather silly as comments go, Shane. Black and White? Maybe that is a casual take on all this but I don't see it that way and I haven't read anyone else's take on the subject that makes it black and white.

I think maybe the mistake you are making is one of thinking that drawing a line and saying "don't cross this line" is making the issue black and white. And this is not between an outsider (like myself or yourself as we create content, but have such a small scope as to be invisible for the most part) and content creators. He was a well known and very popular content creator and then he created a series of events (almost seemingly on purpose) that blew up in his face, making each event worse than the last. That the end result was a life time ban from WOTC is perhaps harsh, but imho he earned it. The ban from MTGO is harsher in a way as it resulted in actual loss of property (though the technical answer to that is WOTC owns all of our digital things on mtgo. :/)

CSprankle was effectively chased out of the game as well though by less legit means and it was her choice rather than someone else, but imho it was a sensible and sane one. She's smart, talented and has a lot of other avenues to find her path in life other than mtg and while I am sad about the fact that she chose to leave, I understand it. And there is no way to undo the damage done by that decision.

I think the thing to take from this isn't that people are being too simplistic but that people take sides when sides are demanded of them. This isn't unreasonable or unfair, it just is.

Let's move on to the topic of how we benefit from the lessons learned here and how do we make the community a better place as a result?

Don't get me wrong by TheWolf at Thu, 12/21/2017 - 01:28
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I actually agree with you, but it is a black and white issue - either you agree with his comments, like his followers do, or you don't. I haven't seen anyone sitting in the grey area in the middle, hence making it "black or white". I don't really see my comment as "silly" for that reason.

I agree with everything else you say, though. Most people agree Jeremy has done the wrong thing and that we shouldn't have to put up with that in an otherwise wonderful community, and yes we do need to work out how to make the community a better place as a result.

Perhaps by MichelleWong at Thu, 12/21/2017 - 04:54
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Perhaps I am the only person in the PureMTG Community who thinks that there are double-standards going on here by WotC (and hypocrisy to the highest degree). Everyone can come to their own conclusions, and I have followed the evidence to the best of my ability.

I hear your frustration. I by Paul Leicht at Thu, 12/21/2017 - 06:39
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I hear your frustration.

I understand that he claimed that he was threatened and threats should be treated seriously and doing so should not be mocked. As I said above, threats should be handled by officials (police or whatever authority is appropriate.) WOTC has no authority to deal with such matters. They can however respond to community outcry and look at the evidence they are provided. As far as I know they did so, fairly and with a lot of thought. (It took them a week to respond to the debacle with anything other than a "we're looking into this" statement.

As to the other negative responses I think they were almost entirely in response to provocation. Similar to how if someone is physically assaulted that person's friends may attempt to defend them and perhaps damage the assailant in the process. (As far as I know there has been no actual physical violence, merely retaliation and verbal "warfare" between sides.) In light of the provocation, I assume WOTC decided they were not going to ban people for non-serious acts done in the heat of the moment.

Also, Ongoing well-planned harassment and incitement to harassment and possible violence is not the same thing as spontaneous retaliations. Both are wrong but not equally wrong and one is far more provable in terms of malice.

I think claiming hypocrisy on WOTC's part, based on these things is shaky at best.

I would love to have a more legitimate explanation for each ban and why it was rendered for the length it was. I am pretty sure some bans were handed out for comments made in the "private" 3,000+ member Facebook group that was used for mocking and sexualizing women and trans people in the community.I would like to know which ones were for that and which were for the harassment/threatening of community members.

However, WOTC is typically very closed mouthed about this sort of thing and is unlikely to be forthcoming unless lots of people demand it. Which is a shame but unlikely to change soon.

Hope this mini-tome clears up my own pov on this topic.

Oh there is for sure some by JXClaytor at Thu, 12/21/2017 - 12:22
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Oh there is for sure some double standards, and the people that have harassed jeremy are worthy of being banned too. Other than not taking action against those people I'm not sure where WotC is being hypocritical.

Thanks Joshua, this is one of by MichelleWong at Thu, 12/21/2017 - 17:22
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Thanks Joshua, this is one of my main points.

If WotC were to apply the same standards to others that they imposed on Jeremy, there would need to be many more lifetime bans imposed.

The fact that they don't do this (nor do I expect they will) means that WotC are essentially using the ban hammer to weaponise themselves in order to destroy their political opponents. I say "political" opponents because it is no surprise that the lifetime ban was handed to a pro-trump supporter (and a Pepe the Frog Memer) following his criticism of a person who fits within the "identity politics" victim narrative which WotC subscribes to.

There is a disconnect in your by Lagrange at Thu, 12/21/2017 - 17:46
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There is a disconnect in your reasoning. Just because there have not yet been other lifetime bans does not imply that the ban of Jeremy was politically motivated. If you read politics into this then you are creating a conspiracy theory. There is simply no evidence supporting that this is politically motivated (Whatever that means). Be careful what you read into the actions of WotC and remember that you dont know what kind of evidence they have based their decision upon.

An equivalent argument is that they dont like people named Jeremy. Other people dont get lifetime bans because they were not named Jeremy.

I know a lot of magic players by JXClaytor at Fri, 12/22/2017 - 02:59
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I know a lot of magic players that are trump supporters. I know plenty of magic players that are conservatives.

The difference between the people I know, and the people like Jeremy, Travis, those on the draft women pages is kinda simple.

The people I know are not using their voice or platforms to attack others.

It's okay to be conservative/pro trump.

It's not okay to harass people enough to drive them out of the game or protect twitter accounts.

I've been debating about leaving magic behind because of this, at 37 I'm much too old to deal with this, and because of it, I'm very glad that something I've spent 24 years doing is not a thing that my son wants to pick up. I don't want to subject from this potential behavior, or let him watch daddy pick himself up after getting attacked again.

Ah OK I guess I misunderstood by Paul Leicht at Thu, 12/21/2017 - 05:52
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Ah OK I guess I misunderstood what you wrote, as I assumed you were talking about the discussion surrounding J & Co, rather what he actually said. Yeah I do think that's pretty clear, cut and dried, with little room for spin or nuance. He made few bones.

His followers made another by JXClaytor at Sun, 12/24/2017 - 00:46
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His followers made another pick one pack one today, and shared it on twitter.

I'm waiting for the redemption arc of this story that clearly is not going to happen.

The Pack 1 Pick 1s are crude. by MichelleWong at Sun, 12/24/2017 - 06:30
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The Pack 1 Pick 1s are crude and distasteful. But twitter feeds are private, no one would know about it unless one is a part of the feed, or unless outraged people disseminate it more broadly.

I am still not aware of any action taken by WotC against those who committed harrassment against Jeremy (including the use of death threats, posting his home address publicly as an intimidation tactic, encouraging others to mass flag his videos, the mass doxing against him and the use of extreme levels of verbal attacks, all of which go far beyond any criticisms made by Jeremy of Christine). We can't dismiss it by saying that such hate is not as reprehensible when committed by the opponents of Jeremy because it was done in the heat of the moment (as was suggested in a post above), because such haters could have easily taken down their messages days or weeks after posting them, but they failed to do so. The double-standards at play here are real.

Twitter feeds are not private by JXClaytor at Sun, 12/24/2017 - 14:58
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Twitter feeds are not private unless they are marked private.

And I am sure if WotC deems action necessary, it will happen, but right now they are on holiday break.

Bullying is not criticism.

Happy Holidays y'all!

"And I am sure if WotC deems by MichelleWong at Tue, 12/26/2017 - 09:02
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"And I am sure if WotC deems action necessary, it will happen".
This is circular reasoning. It is a truism that if WotC deems it necessary, it will happen. The more pertinent question is: Do proven death threats and targeted harrassment (when directed against a person whom WotC does not like) mean that WotC will deem that action is necessary? Given that such incidents have been taking place for months, it seems not.

"But right now they are on holiday break".
This has been going on for months, not days before the Christmas break. So what is the significance of the holiday break? And let's be real, does anyone think that after the Christmas break we will all wake up to Magical Christmas Land where death threats, intimidation and harrassment are deemed worthy of bans by WotC (when it's directed against Jeremy - but not when it's directed against Christine)?

I will be happy to eat my words if WotC take action against the harrassers of Jeremy in 2018, but I am not holding my breath.

The double-standards and hypocrisy are real, and I continue to call them out for it.

Thanks Paul. Look forward to by MichelleWong at Wed, 12/20/2017 - 07:04
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5

Thanks Paul.

Hope we can fire up a Christmas Holidays Commander brawl with the PureMTG community.

Sure thing. by Paul Leicht at Thu, 12/21/2017 - 00:18
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Sure thing.