Editorial Section:
Ten Reasons why using MTGO for a Pro Tour is a great idea. But first, it seems that a lot of people have their own ideas for what I mean when I say an "MTGO Based Pro Tour", so I'll be explicit in my definitions. MTGO cannot be used in a tournament has an unknown maximum size. Something like a Grand Prix for instance, would not work at all. Namely because you don't know how many people will be there and therefore, cannot prepare the event properly. A turnout like the one in Grand Prix: Paris would be a major problem. However, for items like Worlds or a Pro Tour, where the number of contestants is fully known and below five hundred, I believe it's perfectly legitimate. Also, the event wouldn't be like playing MTGO at home, it would be the same 'WotC flies you out to the location' type of thing that exists now. Lastly, and most importantly, there is no way that this could work within the current (V3) system. It's just not ready for it. So as I enumerate these items I will also make sure to point out where things need to be better or fixed to make them happen. Essentially what I'm going to cover below are a list of things that MTGO has the opportunity to add to a high level event. I thought briefly about a rebuttal article where I dissect the criticisms and attempt to discredit them but that is really just not my style. I'm far more of a bright-sider than a nit-picker... or at least that's what I tell myself anyway.
Number Ten: Technology based solution
The current client is far short of where it needs to be for this to work. However, the possibility exists that piping the feeds right out to the internet could be done for way, way more of the matches as not each match would need to be video taped to be viewable. Surely the top matches would get the same type of pomp and circumstance they currently do; deck-tech's, interviews, etc. However, the amount of more matches that would be viewable in this manner would allow for a much more complete view of the events and the decks. Plus you could follow your friends progress throughout the day, comment on misplays, etc... all from the comfort of your own home.
What MTGO's Missing - An easy way to export the screens, the ability to see the players hands in replays, and easily transmittable replays.
Number Nine: Communication
Language barriers are certainly all over the place a large event like Worlds, or even at the Pro Tour. Essentially the communication isn't any different between MTGO and two mute players. Both are pretty quiet. However, on MTGO the game state isn't required to be said verbally, and all questions are right there on the screen: Hand size? Life total? Cards in graveyard?
What MTGO's Missing - The V3 UI is clearly lacking in this regard, and we're far behind the times when it comes to voice/video chat availability as well. It is completely missing localization wherein one player sees all the cards in Korean and the other sees them all in Italian. MTGO *could* do this, someday.
Number Eight: Pro Tour Drafts
Having heard the instructions given during a Pro Tour draft ("No looking around.", "Keep your eyes on your cards AT ALL TIMES", etc) I feel comfortable saying that this process could be improved upon by using MTGO to handle the drafts. Also, the way draft packs work at a big event is very different than the way we would probably expect. Namely they're all opened, stamped, and repacked with paper bands to protect the players from cheaters and verify that each deck could in fact have been made from the contents of said player's draft pool. That sounds like a lot of work, to be honest. Worth that doesn't
What MTGO's Missing - The capability to handle gigantic sealed events. I'm not dense enough to believe that it would even be a remotely good idea to try this with our current client/server setup. It's just not where it needs to be to reliably handle something like this.
Number Seven: Card Liquidity
What it offers - In paper Magic right now there is a concern about having enough Baneslayer Angels in each market to meet demand. There just aren't enough of them to go around, and in order to get them from online you have to eBay them or buy them from a store, and of course, you have to wait wait wait to get them. Pete had a concern about not being able to have players access the card. Which is preposterous as ever card in the MTGO world is accessible at all times. For a price, of course. As demand for cards zooms so too does the EV of each sealed event that produces them. As those cards get cracked they can and likely would be dumped right into the worldwide marketplace.
What MTGO's Missing - A trade system that can handle this stress, as well as an automated trade feature/better trading access. This has been requested since the dawn of MTGO and will continue to be requested until it's finally done. Despite the horrible shortcomings in trading on MTGO, it's still slightly faster for me to get cards from a player in Kuala Lumpur on MTGO than it is in paper.
Number Six: MTGO is a more 'pure' Magic play experience
Note well! I didn't say a more 'fun' Magic experience. I also didn't say a 'better' Magic experience. I said 'pure' and I meant it. If you doubt this, honestly watch your games in paper (if you play) and watch how much time is spent shuffling, counting, tracking, maintaining, etc and how much time is actually *playing* the game itself. The results might just shock you, especially in any format where fetchlands see play. Crack a fetchland, search, play, shuffle, cut... oh, this gets +5/+5 and you put the top six cards of your library in your graveyard. It also removes that smack-talking, mouthy guy that tries to get an edge by acting like a toddler that got into daddy's RedBull.
What MTGO's Missing - A better UI. Although the folks at WotC have done a decent job of polishing the steaming present they had to launch, it still leaves a LOT to be desired. After seeing the improvements in the 3.5 UI it struck me just how much more intuitive the client can truly be.
Number Five: "Dude, where's my deck?"
Reading the coverage of Rome via Twitter and blogs left me with a very sick feeling about humanity. The amount of people who had items stolen was disheartening. I dream of a world where people don't screw each other over. I believe in a world where people can, do and will screw each other if it suits them. This was one of the catalysts for my small blurb last week about why MTGO would be better. Imagine a tournament where you just walk in, with no cards, no bag of binders, no dice, no laptop. Just you, you clothes, and your pockets of tech items. How relaxing to not have to constantly watch your stuff, or to need to wrap a bag around your legs while you sit.
What MTGO's Missing - Biometrics. But the cost->benefit for them is absurd right now, and I don't think they'd add a lot more to the security at these specific events.
Number Four: "Cheating" disappears
There are things that are 'like' cheating, like abusing the interface or abusing a card bug, but those aren't actually cheating. Cheating is misrepresenting a game state. Cheating is palming cards. Cheating is lying to your opponent. Cheating is leaving a Cadaverous Bloom in your lap to 'pick up' later. Not a single one of these things can be done on MTGO. You don't have to constantly be on the look out for what shifty thing your opponent MIGHT try to get away with. Or why he is constantly having you count your cards in hand. Or if it was an actual accident when he looked at the top card of his library before drawing it.
What MTGO's Missing - Instant infractions. This would need to have a coordinated judge group on the floor as well as WotC CS ready to enforce stupidity
Number Three: All Oracle, All the Time
How many game states are convoluted because a player is playing a Korean version of one card, a Japanese version of another, and an Italian version of another? Oh, and throw in a few pre-sixth versions of a couple other cards for good measure. In the best case scenario judges are called, oracle wordings are looked up things are explained, and each player has to hold those rules in their heads for the rest of the game. That's the best case. Worst case, a player loses without asking for a judge and feels cheated.
What MTGO's Missing - In this instance, nothing. Oracle updates are handled completely by the client already, and correctly at that.
Number Two: No deck checks
"We got deck checked and I had for forgotten to de-sideboard and started the match with a game loss". Yeah, that sucks. It's also irrelevant with MTGO as your deck goes back to the submitted deck between each round. No more de-sideboarding mistakes, or incorrectly registered lists, or accidentally having five Lotus Cobras in your deck. They're just done, out of sight and locked away. Also, it makes it so no one knows what the other is sideboarding.
What MTGO's Missing - Nothing, assuming you don't get a 140 random sealed deck at the start of each match...
Number One: Rules Enforcement
And here is the number one reason that started this whole enchilada. Multiple players were disqualified from Worlds, which in turn disqualified their entire team. I don't know Charles Gindy, I've never met him. But I have met two of his team mates; Brad Nelson and Todd Anderson. Both Brad and Todd are fine upstanding players and great guys. It powerful sucks that they were disqualified from the team portion along with Gindy. I have the same empathy for the teammates of the other two teams that got dropped from the team portion because of players cheating. However, in the Gindy case the disqualification happened because of believed intentions of cheating. I don't know what exactly happened but every story I've heard of the incident would be rendered moot if MTGO was used instead of humans. Likewise, every story of Kibler's opponent's missed Angel of Despair trigger would also vanish. Complain about losing to a misclick I suppose. I'd take a personal fault of misplay over letting own three of my peers any day of the week.
What MTGO's Missing - Bug free cards. Things really have gotten much better, even though there are still often small issues here and there. For the most part, things are very good with new card sets as they're deployed.
Do I think we will see MTGO Pro Tours someday? I honestly don't know, probably not. But then again, I didn't think we'd ever get Pro Tour Qualifiers under MTGO V3, so anything is possible. I can see the reasons for them, of course, I can see the reasons against them too. Also there's no way that an MTGO event would make judges obsolete at the event. They would still need to be available to explain cards and effects and why something happened. In fact, I think they'd have higher powers for the events to be able to enforce rules and quickly fix anything that breaks.
Discussion Items:
The Marketplace Sucks - Not really news by this point, but it keeps being mentioned in new and unique ways that the Marketplace is become more and more unusable each week as people find and exploit the client.
MTGO Pack Payout Issues - A completely unbelievable thread, in my humble opinion. I'm not sure what I need to do to help call attention to this but this is surely a big deal. While I'm sure CS is adept at fixing this by now, that's beyond the point. It shouldn't take CS to fix this. Either something is wrong with the set up or something is wrong with the grant. It really doesn't matter which, but it really needs to be fixed.
Price Discussions:
We have a nice mix of changes this week in card prices. Good ol' Maelstrom Pulse leads the pack. It's a good card with lots of applications and always useful. Earthquake was also a strong mover this week as it is showing its power in the world of Standard. The interesting cards to me were the ones in the #2, 4, 5, and 6 slots. All Extended based cards, and not a couple of them aren't really super powerful. I'm not exactly sure why they, among all the cards online, decided to surge forward but they did. If you are aware of the reason please share it in the comments!
As for the droppers, Cobra, Nissa, Eldrazi are there in full effect which is understandable as they left the sanctuary of their format strongholds and promptly got hit by an SUV driven by Bloodbraid Elf while she was talking on her cell phone. Like, for sure. Oddly enough Emeria Angel cooled off a bit this week, despite still being a very strong creature in the format she hasn't been able to really hold her value very well after Worlds. Phyrexian Dreadnought Slides down a bit from 'really expensive' to 'pretty expensive'.
Price Tables:
Price Graphs:


maelstrom pulse chart
the rack chart
earthquake chart
stuffy doll chart
engineered explosives chart
sliver legion chart
damnation chart
jace beleren chart
yavimaya elder chart
thrumming stone chart
stuffy doll chart
malakir bloodwitch chart
undead warchief chart
seaside citadel chart
wall of denial chart
extraplanar lens chart
blastoderm chart
battlegrace angel chart
the rack chart
earthquake chart
lotus cobra chart
nissa revane chart
eldrazi monument chart
haunting echoes chart
phyrexian dreadnought chart
vampire nocturnus chart
emeria angel chart
badlands chart
abeyance chart
savannah chart
emeria angel chart
ethersworn canonist chart
haunting echoes chart
eldrazi monument chart
scute mob chart
nissa revane chart
cephalid coliseum chart
crypt of agadeem chart
master of etherium chart
protean hydra chart
Tournament Data:
Exodus Prerelease TODAY!
Exodus Release NEXT WEEK!
|
321 Draft
|
16 player Daily Swiss Daily
|
16 Player Sealed Swiss (on demand)
|
16 player Daily Swiss (Release)
|
Promo
|
None
|
Zuran Orb |
None
|
Avatar, extra avatar to winners
|
Rounds
|
3
|
4
|
3
|
4
|
Expected Value (prizes):
|
42.8% |
50.9% |
50% |
54.9% |
Estimated Time
|
Three to Four hours
|
Four Hours
|
Three Hours
|
Four Hours
|
Payout
|
3-0: 3 Packs
2-1: 2 Packs
1-2: 1 Packs
0-3: 0 packs
|
4-0: 11 Packs
3-1: 6 Packs
2-2: 3 Packs
1-3 or lower: 0 Packs
|
3-0: 9 Packs
2-1: 4 Packs
1-2: 1 Packs
0-3: 0 Packs
|
4-0: 15 Packs
3-1: 12 Packs
2-2: 3 Packs
1-3 or lower:0 Packs |
MOPR Points
|
3
|
4
|
4
|
4
|
Cost
|
3 Boosters + 2 Event Tickets
($14.97 from the store)
|
Six Boosters + 2 Event Tickets
($25.94 from the store)
|
Six Boosters
($23.94 from the store)
|
Six boosters + 4 Event Tickets
($27.94 from the store)
|
Dailies:
|
Standard
|
Block
|
Extended
|
Classic
|
Promo
|
Zuran Orb, foil for winning
|
Zuran Orb, foil for winning |
Zuran Orb, foil for winning |
Zuran Orb, foil for winning |
EV (prizes)
|
|
|
|
|
Estimated Time
|
Four hours
|
Four hours |
Four hours |
Four hours |
Rounds
|
4
|
4
|
4
|
4
|
Payout
|
4-0: 11 Zen Packs
3-1: 6 Zen Packs
|
4-0: 11 Zen Packs
3-1: 6 Zen Packs |
4-0: 11 ACR (4/3/4)
3-1: 6 ACR (2/2/2)
|
4-0: 11 ME3 Boosters
3-1: 6 ME3 Boosters
|
| MOPR Points |
4
|
4
|
4
|
4
|
Cost
|
6 Event Tickets + Deck
|
6 Event Tickets + Deck |
6 Event Tickets + Deck |
6 Event Tickets + Deck |
Premier Events:
|
Standard
|
Block
|
Extended
|
Classic
|
Promo
|
Zuran Orb, foil for top 8
|
Zuran Orb, foil for top 8 |
Zuran Orb,foil for top 8 |
Zuran Orb, foil for top 8 |
Estimated Time
|
6+ hours, + top 8
|
6+ hours, + top 8 |
6+ hours, + top 8 |
6+ hours, + top 8 |
Rounds
|
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-96
|
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-96 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-96 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-96 |
Payout
|
1st: 36 Zen Packs
2nd: 27 Zen Packs
3rd & 4th: 18 Zen Packs
5th - 8th: 9 Zen Packs
|
1st: 36 Zen Packs
2nd: 27 Zen Packs
3rd & 4th: 18 Zen Packs
5th - 8th: 9 Zen Packs |
1st: 36 ACR (12/12/12)
2nd: 27 ACR (9/9/9)
3rd & 4th: 18 ACR (6/6/6)
5th - 8th: 9 ACR (3/3/3)
|
1st: 36 ME3 Packs
2nd: 27 ME3 Packs
3rd & 4th: 18 ME3 Packs
5th - 8th: 9 ME3 Packs |
| MOPR Points |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128 |
Cost
|
10 Event Tickets + Deck |
10 Event Tickets + Deck |
10 Event Tickets + Deck |
10 Event Tickets + Deck |
Weekend Events:
|
Standard Singleton
|
Pauper
|
Core Set Constructed
|
100 Card Singleton
|
Promo
|
Goblin Legionnaire, foil top 8
|
Goblin Legionnaire, foil top 8 |
Goblin Legionnaire, foil top 8 |
Goblin Legionnaire, foil top 8 |
Estimated Time
|
6+ hours, + top 8 |
6+ hours, + top 8 |
6+ hours, + top 8 |
6+ hours, + top 8 |
| Rounds |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128
8 for 129-256
|
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128
8 for 129-256 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128
8 for 129-256 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128
8 for 129-256 |
Payout
|
1st:
2nd:
3rd & 4th:
5th - 8th:
9th - 16th:
|
1st: M2010
2nd: M2010
3rd & 4th: M2010
5th - 8th: M2010
9th - 16th: M2010 |
1st: M2010
2nd: M2010
3rd & 4th: M2010
5th - 8th: M2010
9th - 16th: M2010 |
1st:
2nd:
3rd & 4th:
5th - 8th:
9th - 16th: |
MOPR Points
|
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128 |
6 for 33 - 64
7 for 65-128 |
Cost
|
6 Event Tickets + Deck |
6 Event Tickets + Deck |
6 Event Tickets + Deck |
6 Event Tickets + Deck |
Conclusion:
If you're still reading this (there was a lot of text this week), I'd like to say that I'm quite amazed that my small section last week has blown up so much in the past seven days. It truly feels like a polarizing issue for the community at this point as it seems that most people talking about it either see it as a possible outcome or as an impossible outcome. Personally, it's not so black or white to me. I think it *could* happen IF some required things happen. I can't say for sure if it would work or if it wouldn't or if it would work that they would even want to try it. The mere possibility has created more discussion about MTGO than I've seen in a good long while, which is a good sign of people still caring about the medium; and that's always a good thing.
17 Comments
Arguing that MTGO is a more "pure" experience seems silly. MTG is a collectible CARD game. To me touching real, paper cards feels more "pure" than clicking on some pixels on my screen.
From a game play perspective, MTGO feels more pure. Having started as a paper player, the play experience feels more pure in paper.
If I want to play a game, I think MTGO lets me do that better than paper. If I want to enjoy everything about ccg's (opening packs, watching the play next to me, trading, jawing with my opponent, etc.), then paper fits better.
I'm new to Magic (been playing about 6 months or so) and an old fart (47). I have tried to play paper at one of the several FNM card shops and found the reception to be ess than warm and inviting. In fact I get that "who's dad are you" look. :-)
I have found that MTGO is a lot more fun and welcoming to new players.
In fact I'm considering dumping my paper cards.
Okay, back into my hole. LOL
Hey man, MTGO is glad to have people like you join the online atmosphere.
I have been playing since Revised. I quit playing paper and joined MTGO during the IPA sets (very end, more towards OTJ). I sold all of my paper cards back in 2002/3/4ish time-period. That was one of the hardest things I have ever done. Especially now that I look back and see what some of the cards that I had are going for these days....
BUT...
1. Online,I never have a problem finding a game these days. I have the ability to play against countless competitors with countless strategies. Rarely do you play 2 similar decks out of 10 like I did when I was playing paper... essentially, the competition is limitless.
2. You are right about how hard it CAN be to get into paper. You go to the local nerd-porium, and there are a bunch of Vets who do not always have the time to take new players under their wings....
Regarding Extended cards; the Pro tour qualifier locations for San Juan have been, and they're extended based. Expect more extended staples to rise soon as well.
great article as always. I pretty much agree with most of your points in the editorial section.
A quick correction, the 16 player release events award 10 packs for a 3-1 record, not 12.
Also, did anyone else notice that the Alara BLOCK boosters that are going to be released early next year will be available in draft sets (3 packs and 2 tickets) I've been trying to find out information on this without any luck. To me this brings 3 questions.
1) Is there going to be prerelease/release events for this, even though its essentially a repackaged product.
2) Will the Alara Block booster Drafts work like ACR drafts and replace ACR drafts as a way to streamline booster pack prize distribution, or will it truly be 3 packs of all cards from Alara block mixed together.
3) Will Alara Block drafts have a prize distribution that includes the all-foil boosters.
I think it is very naive to think that cheating doesn't occur in regards to MTGO.
First off, I agree with you that it is nice not to constantly have to be watching your opponent constantly to ensure they are doing everything properly. To this end, MTGO is very nice.
However any time you get an online game with any kind of popularity there are hackers that break the system. I think Wizards has done a good job of not having any publicly acknowledged attacks. Even something as simple as a hack that would allow a user to see an opponents cards would be devastating. Let alone some kind of trade hack or duplication technique or changing cards to foils, controlling cards when packs are opened, the possibilities going on and on...
I look at the many problems that the makers of MTGO have had delivering a stable, usable, reliable game client and I can't in good conscience believe that the system isn't open to being compromised. I like to believe the best, however I have been around enough games that have been compromised, that were developed by much better teams, that I shudder to think about what goes on without most users' awareness.
Anyway, I'm not trying to play scare tactics. Just trying to make a point that just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
-Gimmie
Hacks that do any of the following are positively impossible on MTGO:
- look at your opponents hand
- trade hack (by messing with the other guy's confirm button or by adding cards)
- duplicate cards
- artificially or permanently changing the premium (foil) status of an object
- affecting the contents of a booster by means other than waiting for someone else to crack a booster before you
The MTGO client is thin and dumb. Nothing is sent to it that it doesn't need, as several successful reverse-engineers should attest. (Like millibot maybe.) Popular MMOs are almost thin, but certain hidden information has to be sent in order to implement the virtual world. For example, what equipment the people around you are wearing, what hidden monsters lie just ahead, etc. But none of that applies to MTGO. They can simply not send hand information until you tap Glasses of Urza. The key here is that Magic isn't real-time.
Trade hacking basically means packet forging. You have to forge both the contents (he put his foil Tolarian Academy in the trade window) and the source (*he* did it). If the server hears a message from Katastrope that "Hamtastic just gave me his Academy for free" then the server should reject it because it didn't come from Hamtastic. Auto-ban. Now if you can forge all that, you can do a lot of evil. How about a concession hack? All Mindslaver all the time. If the server is at all secure, this is impossible. Just make sure no one gets your password!
Each card/booster/etc on the server exists as its own object, and each object is linked to an account. Normally in online games, possessions are stored as part of your avatar's data, or as a series of numbers. (2x Potions, 1x Machine Gun, 0x Crowns, etc). But everything in MTGO exists as its own database record. Going from 0 Force of Wills owned up to 40 is not as easy as changing a 0 to a 40. You would actually have to print 40 new digital objects and set yourself as the owner. And if you can do that then you've got admin access to the MTGO server. Likewise, it is impossible to mess with the boosters, make something foil, alter a card, etc.
So it's not that Wizards has had no publicly known attacks, it's that the system isn't vulnerable like typical online games are. We're only complaining about usability and scalability because the security is good.
It's also an odd quirk of MTGO that 'exploits' don't do anything. In normal MMOs the property ownership is tied to the gameplay - seemless trading, new loot, and buying items. In MTGO-land we don't have that. Your collection isn't actively used during a game. And there's no way to glitch the game into giving you a bunch of ____ because there are so few ways to perform a transaction and all of those transactions are secure. If the prize pack awarding function is broken then it is broken for everyone and it'll be noticed VERY quickly.
Promos are wrong on the weekend tournaments. Krosan Tusker is the December weekend promo.
http://community.wizards.com/magiconline/wiki/Magic_Online_Promo_Card_List
Good article. To me the moral of the story is, Wizards needs to get off their butts and finally make MtGO better.
Good article, as always.
I generally agree with all your points - if MTGO had all its missing part, an online PT could work. I'm not sure that it would be as dramatic or as good a show using computers, but it could work.
I assume that the card system is some sort of database, with RI up the wazoo. I know from work how hard it is to make sure that a database with strong RI to do what it's not supposed to do is. I don't think the card side is a big issue, if there were to be any form of offensive I expect it would be aimed at the client, not the card end of the game.
You didn't mention how any arbitrarily large loop is unplayable on modo. The fact that certain decks are simply unplayable due to the client seems unconscientiable.
I think you're looking for Pete's article, why online based PTs are a bad idea.
This editorial was about the good stuff. :)
luckily not one of those decks are played in tournys
the closest is maybe a bad version of elves for legacy which no one will play due to it not being a deck that wins
sure if it were to be the casual pro tour then you might have a valid point
worldgorger dragon combo is playable online
ext elves last season was playable online
sharuum dredge is playable online
what deck/s were you reffering to? that actually see the light of a table
Shouldn't you be saying they aren't "played in tourneys at the moment"?
The real question is whether such decks get played in tournaments from time to time, and was that ONLY in the past or will it happen again as future blocks continue to come out?
Certainly Project-X was played by some of the Japanese pros in past tournaments. I would think it likely such decks will turn up in some future tournaments as well, especially when the format is Extended. But Project X was played in Standard if I recall correctly. (Not to mention Project Y got tried by a few people later on!)
Project-X is playable online, as a matter of fact i have seen it, it resembles the Flash Hulk kill employing lark+fanatic+mog+body double+feeder takes a lot of clicking but no more than Elfball did last season