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By: hamtastic, Erik Friborg
Aug 06 2010 12:15am
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Editorial Section:
Needless to say, I was intrigued with the concept of TNMO.  Intrigued enough to even join in because hey, I'm a sucker for free promos and cheap thrills.  So I dust off my digital sleeve and update my RDW deck to match my paper magic deck that I run in my shop.  The list below is missing the M11 cards like Cyclops Gladiator, and Leyline of Punishment in the board.  I will apologize for the lack of audio and minimal editing of these videos.  Time constraints of playing late on Thursday for a Thursday night deadline took their toll on yours truly.  Next time, I will have a better showing with more time for editing... promise! 
 

DDW
Devastating Deck Wins
Creatures
4 Kargan Dragonlord
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Ember Hauler
16 cards

Other Spells
4 Searing Blaze
4 Staggershock
4 Burst Lightning
4 Devastating Summons
4 Lightning Bolt
20 cards
Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
3 Smoldering Spires
1 Mountain
12 Mountain
24 cards

Sideboard
4 Volcanic Fallout
3 Earthquake
7 cards
Goblin Guide

 

Match 1:
What are the odds I run into a dedicated Life Gain deck in Round 1!?  Evidently 100% odds, it would seem.  I take game one on the capable back of Goblin guide.  I move into game two with some ant-life gain and a spring in my step... sadly, the sideboard gods weren't cutting me any breaks and I saw no Leylines in games two and three.  Time to be more aggressive in my mulliganing, or was that the right call?  Comment in the forums!

Match 2:
Match 2 was against a clanmate running a sweet, sweet Jund list.  I wind up a bit mana light and get stomped.  And of course Bloodbraid into Pulse trumps Kargan eight days a week.  

 

Round 3:
Sadly this video didn't get saved, but I can summarize the match pretty easily.  It was versus a G/r Omnath deck that ramped into certain kill spells (like Fireball or Comet Storm) if the Omnath plan failed.  Luckily,  I've played against it in paper and know that Omnath can be chumped all day long... which plan generally works as I almost always can seal the deal with straight burn.  Both games become a race and I switch into defense mode and wait to draw a lightning bolt, burst lightning, or staggershock... and well, miss them and can't draw out in both games.  Rough beats, but unfortunately it happens.  *grumble*

Anyway, that was a disappointing week for DDW and hammy... ah well.  I'll be back next week for the four pack sealed deck!  The Thursday Night Magic event schedule is here.

Discussion Items:
Tournament Practice Room Etiquette:
Some thoughts about the way that one should handle themselves in the Tournament Practice room.  Think of the Casual debate, but in reverse.

Master's Edition 4 Release Date Announced:
Nothing really besides the Date (December), but still, good to hear the actual date.

Card Price Discussion:
Keeping an eye on Primeval Titan shows us that he's being sold as low as 36 tickets (late Thursday Night), well on his way to the sub 30 tickets I've guesstimated him settling at later next week.  Baneslayers are around 20 tickets as well, in the Sell adverts, no less.  Good to see these guys dipping down into a nice mellow level.  Keep an eye on both of them and snap them up whenever you can get them to a comfortable price.

Outside of M11 movements Valakut, Avenger and Fulminator Mage moved upwards thanks to major movements in their demand curves.  Fulminator will be very useful in the near future of Extended and Valakut/Avenger are a new hotness in the Standard arena.  I would have to imagine that Survival/Aluren/Imperial recruiter are BFF's right now as well in Legacy.

Card Price Charts:

Card This Week Last Week Value Change Percentage Change
Avenger of Zendikar 13.5 7.75 5.75 74.19%
Survival of the Fittest 38 36 2 5.56%
Aluren 12 10 2 20.00%
Fulminator Mage 4.75 3.75 1 26.67%
Imperial Recruiter 5 4 1 25.00%
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle 1.5 0.6 0.9 150.00%
Serrated Arrows 2 1.25 0.75 60.00%
Regal Force 4.5 4 0.5 12.50%
Price of Progress 6.5 6 0.5 8.33%
Intuition 23.5 23 0.5 2.17%
Card This Week Last Week Value Change Percentage Change
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle 1.5 0.6 0.9 150.00%
Avenger of Zendikar 13.5 7.75 5.75 74.19%
Serrated Arrows 2 1.25 0.75 60.00%
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle 1.15 0.8 0.35 43.75%
Stigma Lasher 1.15 0.9 0.25 27.78%
Fulminator Mage 4.75 3.75 1 26.67%
Imperial Recruiter 5 4 1 25.00%
Aluren 12 10 2 20.00%
Goblin King 1.5 1.3 0.2 15.38%
Oracle of Mul Daya 1.5 1.3 0.2 15.38%
Card This Week Last Week Value Change Percentage Change
Entomb 25 32 -7 -21.88%
Underground Sea 48 54 -6 -11.11%
Elspeth, Knight_Errant 22 26.75 -4.75 -17.76%
Force of Will 80 84 -4 -4.76%
Baneslayer Angel 32.5 36.5 -4 -10.96%
Tundra 30 33 -3 -9.09%
Badlands 18 21 -3 -14.29%
Jace, the Mind Sculptor 77.5 80 -2.5 -3.13%
Maelstrom Pulse 11.5 14 -2.5 -17.86%
Taiga 32 34 -2 -5.88%
Card This Week Last Week Value Change Percentage Change
Sphinx Ambassador 0.35 0.6 -0.25 -41.67%
Sunpetal Grove 1.3 2 -0.7 -35.00%
Dauntless Escort 1.15 1.75 -0.6 -34.29%
Flames of the Blood Hand 0.5 0.75 -0.25 -33.33%
Rootbound Crag 1.75 2.5 -0.75 -30.00%
Nemesis of Reason 0.5 0.7 -0.2 -28.57%
Emeria Angel 0.5 0.7 -0.2 -28.57%
Sovereigns of Lost Alara 2.75 3.75 -1 -26.67%
Sigil of the Empty Throne 1.3 1.75 -0.45 -25.71%
Eldrazi Temple 0.6 0.8 -0.2 -25.00%

 

Card Price Graphs:

avenger of zendikar chart
survival of the fittest chart
aluren chart
fulminator mage chart
imperial recruiter chart
valakut, the molten pinnacle chart
serrated arrows chart
regal force chart
price of progress chart
intuition chart
valakut, the molten pinnacle chart
avenger of zendikar chart
serrated arrows chart
valakut, the molten pinnacle chart
stigma lasher chart
fulminator mage chart
imperial recruiter chart
aluren chart
goblin king chart
oracle of mul daya chart
entomb chart
underground sea chart
elspeth, knight_errant chart
force of will chart
baneslayer angel chart
tundra chart
badlands chart
jace, the mind sculptor chart
maelstrom pulse chart
taiga chart
sphinx ambassador chart
sunpetal grove chart
dauntless escort chart
flames of the blood hand chart
rootbound crag chart
nemesis of reason chart
emeria angel chart
sovereigns of lost alara chart
sigil of the empty throne chart
eldrazi temple chart

 

29 Comments

Nice coverage by Amar at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 02:17
Amar's picture
5

Always enjoy the video coverage, and I appreciate the work for such an incredibly fast turnaround.

Crazy unlucky pairing round 1. G2 of course you DID get a leyline, just not in your opening hand. Once drawing that I think I would have played defense more since your cards still work and his don't - at least until he could find an o-ring for the leyline.

G3 I would have attacked your 4/4 into his wall. Your choices there were to leave 1 mana up and bluff a bolt so he might not have blocked, or leave 3 mana up and actually kill the wall with Volcanic Fallout. Either way, nothing lost by attacking. You might even have pulled the Purge from him early and thus saved yourself a turn of leveling.

Match two I would have mulled the 2nd hand. You can't have a slow start against Jund. Given that hand I also would have used up the fetches early to thin.

Lastly, those price charts look suspiciously like last week's, and the Avenger graph isn't playing nice.

I liked that lifegain deck, by Drbenwayy at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 02:36
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4

I liked that lifegain deck, it seemed in the spirit of TNM. I think you could have had an opportunity to win game 2 in round 1 if you would've played it a bit different. Maybe you should have kept the Kargan back when you were at 8 life to prevent him from bringing you down to 2. Did you miscount the math at the end? That was tough though, 1 mana short of using the Ember Hauler to deal him lethal. I liked how in game 3 you leveled up the Kargan 4 times and left one mana open to bluff even though you didn't have a burst lightning or lightning bolt in hand. Oh well, 2 tickets for a few hours isn't bad at all. I'm looking forward to the 4 deck sealed next week, seems like it will be interesting.

I was planning on joining a by this isnt the n... at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 05:12
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I was planning on joining a few constructed tnm queus, so I decided to watch a few replays before i did. Every single match was 2 netdecks. I didnt see anything but rdw, planeswalker based control decks, and uw counter jace control. I had been under the impression that it was supposed to be casual, but since every deck i saw was a card for card netdeck, I guess I was wrong. So if it is not supposed to be casual decks then what is the point of tnm?

"I'm gonna have... by Scartore at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 08:04
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"Oh there's a big surprise! That's an incredible - I think I'm going to have a heart attack and die of not surprise! "

I tried to tell people. by Jimb0v at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 09:22
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I tried to tell people. There is no chance these will be "casual" in the sense that you are not going to see tier 4 and tier 5 decks. Even at my local FNM I do not see people running relentless rats decks. I really do not see this as a negative.

"I really do not see this as by Scartore at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 11:42
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"I really do not see this as a negative."
It's a negative if their intention was to introduce new players to tournament play in a casual atmosphere. If any tournament is basically a Spike only environment, then TNM will be a failure.

There is a big difference by Jimb0v at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 15:10
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There is a big difference between TNMO and a MOCS event. Even if you give people similar decks.

Magic is just different now. A majority of the people who play tournaments play competitively. In the olden days of paper magic, causal players palyed tournaments, because that was the only way to get their magic fix. Nowadays that is far from true.

The lowest form of casual magic is free for all and multiplayer. If you want to emphasize "casual" in the old original sense of the word, then focus on those formats.

Right, casual tournament is by JMason at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 10:58
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Right, casual tournament is almost an oxymoron. By definition casual players don't do tournaments*.

*ok casual players do prerelease and release tournaments for the purpose of getting promos and picking up a few Johnny cards for their pet decks.

Only in by Scartore at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 11:34
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"Right, casual tournament is almost an oxymoron."

Only in Magic land... in just about every other sport or hobby I can think of it's possible to find a tournament for either beginners, or people with less natural talent etc. I don't have to worry about an NBA star showing up at my YMCA. The chess club at school was devoid of russian grand masters. In general, high stakes poker players don't show up at our church festivals.

What is interesting about by Jimb0v at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 15:28
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What is interesting about this is that these divisions show up almost exclusively because of two things: 1) prize structure; and 2) geography.

NBA stars don't show up at your YMCA because the prizes suck and because they don't live near by, same with grand masters at your chess club, and poker players at your church game.

Online, there is no geography. To make an analogy, while its unlikely that Saito, Chapin, LSV, and other pros are going to join TNMO queues, or swiss consistently, many experienced players will.

By way of analogy, if you play FNM in Michigan, you likely will play a few good players from your area, but it is unfathomable that you will play any good players from California, or even from a different area of Michigan a few hours away. Contrast this with online, where there that is the norm.

The only way players are divided online is by prize structure. In general a tournament with less expected value will have worse players than a tournament with more expected value. However, even the tournaments with the least expected value are attracting players from all over the world. So your $5 entry tournament at the local card shop might not attract your local pros, so you end up with a local tourney with not much competition. That same $5 entry tournament online would likely be filled with pro-wannabes from around the globe.

MTGO could divide its players and provide a non-hostile environment for casual players by incentivising the better players and making it not worth their while to shark the low expected value tournaments. The only way I see how to do that would be by using ratings so that you can only join a queue based on your rating and then you make the 1900+ rating queues just give extra packs.

Of course, you have to solve the smurfing problem somehow some how.

Its a bit similar to living by Paul Leicht at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 15:42
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Its a bit similar to living in a big city. (Like NYC. We have a chess shop in the village that hosts regular tourneys where GMS and IMs show with frequency and in numbers, even though the prizes are minimal.)

Absolutely. Funny you say by Jimb0v at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 16:23
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Absolutely. Funny you say that though, I lived in downtown Chicago for over 4 years, and there was zero Magic community there. I had to travel to a suburb to play at all, it was ridiculous.

/shameface Okay, I played UW by Westane at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 11:35
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5

/shameface

Okay, I played UW control at TNM last night. BUT! I'm justifying it so as not to feel bad!

1) It's I legitimately have "fun" playing. Why should I sacrifice my own fun for other people?
2) My FNM's were anything BUT casual. Legacy night? You bet your ass every other person will have 4x FoW
3) I felt no reason to believe other people would think differently, and so decided to come prepared. Turns out, I played again UW mirror round 1, Mono White Control round 2, and UW mirror round 3, so, I made the right choice.

I lost round 3 playing a "net deck", and my buddy went 3-0 playing budget Mono Green Stompy. IMO, that's spelling success for TNM in my book.

I hope there are more results by Scartore at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 11:43
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I hope there are more results like your friends Westane.

@Westane (and anyone by Amar at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 12:17
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@Westane (and anyone else),

You should absolutely NOT feel bad about choosing, or having fun with, a "net" deck. The only sense in which there's anything wrong with that is that it's an environment-crafting failure on Wizards part IF they were expecting something else. (And that's not a given, I say "if".)

When Known Quantity Tier 1 decks are welcome and rewarded it would be highly unfair to blame players for using them. Although we can still root for the Stompy rogues like your friend. ;)

I wouldn't be too concerned by ArchGenius at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 12:37
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4

I wouldn't be too concerned about the results of this first Thursday night Magic. It took place the day after Release events for Magic 2011 opened.

My guess is that a large part of the casual and semi-competitive players are currently more interested in drafting and sealed deck tournaments with new cards than trying to buy those new expensive cards for constructed tournaments such as last night's Thursday night magic.

After a couple of weeks I'm guessing that Thursday Night Magic will still be somewhat competitive but slightly less competitive than Daily Events or Premiere events. I don't think we can get away from the tier 1 decks, but tier 2 decks will still have a reasonable chance, especially when many of the tier 1 decks are going to be piloted by non-pros.

It didn't even occur to me to by Paul Leicht at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 12:54
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It didn't even occur to me to try it, which is strange because last week when I heard about this I was intrigued. But then I guess what happened is the discussion about whether it would be casual or not occurred and I remembered I hate type 2.

Yes, it does seem a bit by ArchGenius at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 13:40
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Yes, it does seem a bit strange that they would use hype the casual nature of the event and then use standard/type 2.

Surely some of the other constructed formats would lead to more casual results. Standard Singleton, 100 Singleton, Pauper, Core Set Constructed, and Tribal would all be better choices. This is because there is less incentive for pros to spend the time to break those formats because there isn't an endless supply of tournaments with significant prizes for those formats.

I don't want this to be a by Paul Leicht at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 14:16
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I don't want this to be a beat WOTC down yet again for another sub par decision bandwagon but their judgment with regards to making players happy seems a bit flawed. As I said I don't want this to be a bash WOTC rant. (So I erased the next two paragraphs.)

The big downside to TNMO is that like anything done online, magic technology spreads upward. No one is going to play jank decks when they are facing netdecks every round. You might see some rogue tech but for the most part the known solutions to type 2 will remain known and no one is going to participate with sub par technology if the win is just x cards away.

This to me means that those casual players who stayed away from MODO because of the cost will continue to stay away and those who do join will just go along with the herd. So no, TNMO is not for me any more than FNM is. (I have no FNM outlet nearby and I don't own paper cards.)

Oh and also I don't think WOTC can sanction TNMO to be fringe format since the stated idea is to prepare people for Offline magic on friday. The best you can hope for is low cost/low prize drafts and those already exist.

Does this mean that 4 booster by ArchGenius at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 14:38
ArchGenius's picture

I am very excited about Thursday Night Magic and I have nothing but praise for WotC for doing it. There are certain details that could have been done better from my perspective. However I have no doubt that most of my suggestions have been concidered already and most likely rejected for valid reasons. I still think it's useful to express those ideas to at least give some feedback as to what actual players are thinking if not to actually make changes. I don't believe that constructive well-meaning criticism constitutes bashing WotC.

Does this mean that 4 booster sealed is going to be a part of FNM?

Its just seems pathetic to me by Cruel_Hellraiser at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 22:35
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Its just seems pathetic to me that people cant even bring a reasonable deck to a casual type event. What is wrong with people these days. I remember back in the day just bringing what we have and playing some magic. Every body is so hell bent on winning its sickening.

You mean like the PRES? Not by Paul Leicht at Fri, 08/06/2010 - 23:23
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You mean like the PRES? Not like this is news :)

Lol. Please do not think by Kuriboh at Sat, 08/07/2010 - 01:00
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Lol. Please do not think anyone has to stick to YOUR definition of "casual".

TNMO is not casual by gaztaseven at Sat, 08/07/2010 - 08:14
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What is casual? To me, casual is a game that doesn't have prizes on the line. But let's take a step back from that.

When you play a game of magic, you have one simple goal, and that is to win. What's the point in bringing a deck that struggles to win to an event with prizes on the line? Everyone wants to win. You don't play a game with the intention of losing.

Recently I have been playing Pauper Std quite a lot. Nearly every deck features either Blightning, Kor Skyfisher or Lightning Bolt, and in some cases all 3. They are the overpowered cards in that environment, just like Jace and BBE are in Standard. If all those cards were suddenly banned tomorrow, a new 'boogeyman' would take their place. That is the nature of magic - some cards are simply better than others. This applies to decks as well. There will always be at least one Tier 1 deck, because some decks are always better than others.

So what is casual? Casual is a game that doesn't have prizes on the line. TNMO is not casual, it is (like FNM) intended as a gateway to higher-level play. This idea is highlighted by the fact that the events give out QP's. You can't seriously expect people who are trying to break into competitive play to hobble themselves by not playing the best cards/decks they can.

"You can't seriously expect by Scartore at Sat, 08/07/2010 - 08:53
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"You can't seriously expect people who are trying to break into competitive play to hobble themselves by not playing the best cards/decks they can."

You're absolutely right, no one should expect folks to play below their ability/collection for the benefit of us cheapskates/beginners.

That being said, it is disappointing that there seems to be no middle ground between your rather unenlightening definition of casual play and rabid frothing at the mouth spikiness. What I keep hearing in these debates is that tournaments of any kind (even PRE's) are supposed to be Spike only environments. Win at all costs! (And boy are we talking cost nowadays).

Maybe there's nothing to be done. Especially in the hyper concentrated world of MTGO, if a prize is on the line, no matter how small, then kid gloves are off.

I'm not calling anyone a by gaztaseven at Sat, 08/07/2010 - 12:06
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I'm not calling anyone a cheapskate. The price of some cards on the secondary market is ridiculous, and I know I am not alone in outright refusing to pay stupid amounts of money for these cards. As for my 'rabid frothing at the mouth spikiness', I play casual, pauper, multiplayer and limited. The vast majority of cards I own I have opened in limited events and you won't see me tearing up the casual room with Tier 1 decks. I like to play good cards, but I also like to play bad ones. I can see how I come across as a spike but i'm simply trying to understand both sides of the argument. With that in mind...

You can't blame people for bringing their best to the competitive table. If I want to play my level up deck, I take it into a casual game and enjoy it, win or lose. Yes, even if the opponent is playing UW control or Jund. I am not going to take it to a tournament and get upset because people with better skills using better cards are beating me.

As I stated earlier, TNMO and FNM are gateways to 'real' competition. It is a ground for honing your skills and testing new competitive decks. It costs money to enter, and awards prizes and QP's. If you want to spend money entering a tournament with your Bazaar Trader deck, fine, but you have to understand that some people own expensive good cards and are going to use them. And why not? It is their choice, just as it is yours to not use those cards. And if you say 'well it's not my choice, I just can't afford those cards', then your gripe is with the secondary market and rarities, and nothing to do with what TNMO is about.

I agree with you on one point - it IS disappointing that there is no middle ground. But I have no idea what can be done about that, and since this debate has been going on for YEARS, it seems that no-one else has arrived at a solution either. So just suck it up, play casual and forget about prizes. After all, it's the playing and having fun that counts, right?

Is it just me or is something by Roman at Sat, 08/07/2010 - 05:25
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5

Is it just me or is something wrong with replay number two? It seems to randomly zoom in from time to time and it's really annoying to watch!

Other than that, good article, good videos, keep it up, Hammy.

Bad title. by Jyalt at Sun, 08/08/2010 - 11:29
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Why is an article published July 6th on the front page on August 8th?

umm it's an accident? thinks by ShardFenix at Sun, 08/08/2010 - 14:09
ShardFenix's picture

umm it's an accident? thinks like that do happen...sheesh the article date is August 6th which would have been friday. The title is slightly off big deal.