Editorial Section:
So wouldn't you know it... just when I decide to chime in on the whole Legacy/Classic time-line debate WotC decides to one-up me and completely blows my mind. In case you missed it, they announced the date for Online Legacy... and it's in a few weeks. The end of March to be exact. I've delved into the world of Legacy a bit and others have done far more work on the actual pieces that are missing. It wasn't until I was reading about the announcement on the WotC boards that something triggered for me. dangerlinto (of course it'd be danger) mentioned the impacts of cards purchased for Classic that are now on the endangered species list thanks to this announcement.
This, to me, is a very big deal. Not just for the previous cards purchased but also for the releases of all sorts of new products. If we take the assumption that Online Legacy will usurp Classic as the de facto eternal format on MTGO then we have some really interesting implications to this whole announcement. Like, for example, Yawgmoth's Will promo cards. Those cards had some value due to being insane in Classic. But if Legacy does indeed overwhelm Classic then those promos just lost a LOT of value as of April 2010. Not that they're worthless, but they certainly will be worth less if the expected end result comes to pass. That's only one example, but there are dozens of others. Anything banned in Legacy that was purchased or won in the past few months just got hit with the devaluation stick.
Looking forward, it also means some pretty interesting things for future From the Vault, Duel Decks and MED4 cards. What demand will there be for Classic only cards in any of those sets? If there's a must have Classic card in MED4 and no in demand (or just very few) Legacy cards... what will the end result be? What about Urza's that will come out later this year? A lot of the really powerful cards are banned. For those who have been around a while on MTGO, you know the feeling by now. It's the same one we feel when we finally get a set onto MTGO, like Worldwake, only to have the next set's card already being spoiled. It's just so hard to get any sort of momentum of hype going with the knowledge that it's already soggy hash browns. That's what Classic sets with “hot” classic cards will be from here on out... soggy hash browns. It's the same thing as it was, but now it's not as tasty or appetizing. For all intents and purposes, it's old and stale.
Better now than later, I guess. That's the sad part, really. Is that even though this sucks for current Classic value of cards it would only really have gotten worse if it was put off much longer. Anything past MED4 would have probably impacted even more players and collectors which only makes matters worse. If any solice can be had in this very fast turn of events I guess that would be what I'd try to keep in my mind. They did this as soon as they did, and that prevents people from buying cards with the intent of Classic play and having them pulled out from under them afterwards.
I hope that the doomsayers (myself included) are wrong about the likely impacts of Online Legacy. But if we are wrong, and Legacy doesn't impede Classic then we have a whole other problem... a dead Legacy format on MTGO. I really really don't see both being able to be supported in the long term.
In slightly more cheerful news! WotC have announced the return of the community cup! I was fortunate enough to go to last year's and would jump at another opportunity to go this year as well. Even if I don't go I'll do whatever I can to help cover the event and let everyone know what's happening and what's going on with it. You can find more details here:
I'll take a few minutes to recap the events I was able to do during last year's Community Cup events: fly into WotC HQ, do some interviews with Erik Lauer, Lee Sharpe and Gordon Culp; grab dinner with the other players, meet Randy Buehler. Play against Aaron Forsythe, Mike Turian, and many other WotC employees; have dinner. Draft Foil 8th Edition with a crazy group of WotC's, play more against WotC's... and you get the idea! To anyone who gets to go, you have a great time ahead of you! If anyone feels like nominating yours truly once again, that would certainly be welcome, and they can do so by following the instructions on the MTGO Blog Page!
Discussion Items:
Qualities of an MTGO Community Cup'er:
Independent of the nomination process is the Community Cup Qualities discussion, which is a good place to voice your opinion about what you'd like to see in someone who gets an invite to this event.
Legacy starts March 31st!:
As mentioned in the Editorial Section above... Legacy is knocking on our door and the locals are getting anxious. You'll see a bit more of this impact a little later on as well. Hint: it rhymes with "Rices".
Visual Imprint change:
The new way of imprinting cards more closely matches the way players do it "In Real Life" (also known as "irl"). However, this does impact the available space in the already constrained multiplayer duels. Suggestions for the development staff can be submitted in the link above.
MTGO Usage Stats:
Algona drops some quick stats, and even adjusting for some testing and mis-fires and whatnot... there are a lot of events that have been run in the past few month! GGS, WotC... GGS indeed.
Awesome Classic Schedule:
Just a little later this month there will be a rather aggressive Classic Schedule to help ease the transition into Legacy, one would think. If you have a Classic deck this might be a good way to subsidize your Legacy collection buying in the near future.
Card Price Discussion:
What a difference a week makes! And for once I'm not even talking about the newest set! The announcement of Online Legacy has already had a pretty profound impact on the MTGO prices for soon-to-be Legacy staples like the original duel lands and other powerful Legacy cards. Like, for example, Sylvan Library.
Also increasing on the whole is M10 which took a bit of a beating while redemption was MIA. Now that there's a bit more demand for the cards they are all starting to sneak back up... or, at least, the good ones and mythics are anyway.
As we're moving out of MTGO's "Extended Season" the important Extended cards are, quite understandably, sliding down. I have a sneaking suspicion that they'll level off about where they were before but maybe a little higher, given the fact that more people are able to use MTGO to test Extended now.
Card Price Tables:
Card Price Charts:
entomb chart
baneslayer angel chart
tropical island chart
sylvan library chart
sylvan library chart
underground sea chart
plateau chart
taiga chart
knight of the reliquary chart
tundra chart
sylvan library chart
sylvan library chart
ad nauseam chart
comet storm chart
?ther vial chart
hellspark elemental chart
platinum angel chart
hypnotic specter chart
pithing needle chart
rampaging baloths chart
dark depths chart
oath of druids chart
engineered explosives chart
survival of the fittest chart
phyrexian dreadnought chart
eye of ugin chart
vendilion clique chart
arcbound ravager chart
steam vents chart
city of traitors chart
amulet of vigor chart
harabaz druid chart
eye of ugin chart
lodestone golem chart
death's shadow chart
mesa enchantress chart
jwari shapeshifter chart
kor firewalker chart
planar portal chart
cloudstone curio chart
Conclusion:
Another week down, and some amazing things coming to MTGO. Namely, Legacy and all it's hype and fanfare it's been enjoying lately. I still remain trepidatious about moving forward with Legacy so quickly, but maybe it will all work out after all. If anything, I think Legacy will stand victorious over the once proud Classic format. Time, as always, will show us the answers!
27 Comments
Great article as always, thanks for the price updates. Sylvan Library went up so much that it's listed twice! :)
Hard to believe Sylvan Library was ever 2.5, it's such a powerhouse in Legacy.
it seems to me that on every set release and every change big or small in the game everyone is crying that it's the end of magic as we know it no matter the outcome... if Legacy takes off its bad for magic... if Legacy fails its bad for magic... doesn't anyone else see this as a little ridiculous?
on a side note I think it'll be interesting to see the evolution of online Legacy because it's one thing for it to be released now, but you look at the top decks and theres a lot of them that are missing cards because we dont have Urza or MM and those aren't going to come all at once so little by little decks will have to pick up the pieces to make themselves whole again
I was a little sad that the announcement happened so soon. I was expecting more time to buy Legacy staples. I already own all the dual lands, thankfully, but there was still more for me to buy. Like FoW. Is that going to go higher?
Solace not solice.
Dual land not duel land.
C'mon Mr proper journalist ;-)
That's on me. I changed that while I was editing this morning, and someone the site ate my edits with a 504 timeout that we looking at.
I have no idea what a 504 timeout means though :/
http://puremtgo.com/sites/default/files/u530/2010_03_11_?ther_vial_dst.png
could not be found.
probably is:
http://puremtgo.com/sites/default/files/u530/2010_03_11_aether_vial_dst.png
also here is the real url for death's shadow.
http://puremtgo.com/sites/default/files/u530/2010_03_11_deaths_shadow_ww...
Anybody know why comet storm and rampaging baloths are rising?
Has somebody won something with valakut?
The Comet Storm half of this got covered below; the Rampaging Baloths' rise is almost certainly due to the rise of Mythic (aka Bant Knightfall), specifically Zvi's version that runs a Baloth or two as its big finisher.
The release schedule say Urza's Saga is coming in two weeks, but I have not seen anything about the beta, prerelease events, no hype, no writeups - nothing.
Is it still on? Did I miss something?
Beta's got auto sent to anyone who Beta tested for WWK
It's on. Got the email Friday. I'm guessing they didn't feel the need to hype it.
Killing off classic (making it a "specialty format" is essentially the same thing) really takes a lot of the wind out of a Urza block release. I wonder how badly this will impact sales.
I've said it before and I will say it again: I think Wizards owes the classic community the respect of telling us what their intentions for the format are. If they plan to make it into vintage eventually, I would like to know (b/c then its worth it to keep the classic-only cards). If they plan to never give us power and just let classic die...I would also like to know that so that I can sell out of the relevant cards.
I asked an Orc, and he confirmed release of Urza's Saga in two weeks.
With respect to the Beta for Urza's - WotC is shortening the Beta time for the Pre-IPA releases. There is essentially nothing left to program (I believe the only unprogrammed mechanic left is Fading, and that's in MM block). I'm hoping to hear about Beta starting Monday.
I also agree with Cownose, with the understanding, of course, that WoTC would never, ever, in a zillion years if they were going to release power, steal their own thunder by telling us about it well in advance.
2 weeks is enough
Am I wrong in assuming that WotC definitely wants to print the jewelry and the rest of the power online, which would instantly turn classic into vintage? If this is the case, I believe the majority of the "classic only" staples should at least recoup some of their lost value. Even if it takes 9-21 months. Food for thought.
"Hoping" seems to be more like it.
Personally, I expect to see jewelery online. I really believe without it, MED4 will be a load of horse pucky since there are only a couple of good Legacy rares left to print.
But WoTC has already changed their minds on so many things, it's impossible to say.
That being said, for a least the next nine moths, all those cards which are only good in classic are worth a lot less, simply because there are a lot less chances for you to win anything with them. It used to be you could get in 3-4 (or more) classic DEs/PEs a week. Now you can't.
"Anybody know why comet storm and Rampaging Baloths are rising?
Has somebody won something with Valakut?"
To answer the second part of your question - ChrisKool won two Standard daily tournaments in a row with his Valakut deck, leaving Pro players behind and beating a well known US pro in the finals.
To see his first tournament with all games check out
http://www.mtgoacademy.com/standard-daily-event-winning-with-valakut/
Legacy is going to be great for MODO. I think a relative scarcity of format staples won’t spell disaster. Even though the “collectible” aspect of the game has been down played since the early days, obtaining cards is still an interesting and sometimes challenging part of the game-outside-the-game. I think it’s healthy for MODO to have a “VIP Room” of sorts, where admittance is something to be strived for, and where assembling a Tier One Legacy deck feels like a real accomplishment.
I'm not sure that getting the cards is "an accomplishment." It's more like I've spent over $5,000. on this game.
Which I have. :(
Depends on how you've acquired them. I have put no money into Modo in the last year but I have nearly doubled my collection through gifts, drafts, trades, and articles. That said Id expect to be moxless if they came online, as they would undoubtably shoot past my ability to trade for/purchase through tickets immediately. Tis what happened with the duals in ME3 and Baneslayers, and Jaces. Not very disappointing mind you. Just a reality. The super expensive cards in any set are definitely a barrier to play and really are about the pocket. On the other hand if I didn't care about enjoying my collection I could probably turn it into the better cards during a low point and sell off again at a high and repeat this until I had both the good cards and a playable collection.
Buying cards straight-up isn't an accomplishment, but trading towards a goal is.
I've read a lot more about classic than I have played it, so I don't have a lot of strong feelings on the matter. However I do think it's sad that they are removing the wild card weekend tournament and putting classic in that slot. I was hoping for a Classic Tribal weekend event one of these months.
Any chance that 100 Classic Singleton or Classic Tribal will be shifted to 100 Legacy Singleton and Legacy Tribal?
I could see it as a possibility if they are going to relegate classic to a weekend challenge format and start promoting Legacy tournaments.
I’m not sure why they’d want a Legacy singleton format since it would only be a few cards off from Classic. With every card ever printed “restricted” in singleton, many of the arguments for Legacy’s very existence fall apart. Legacy Tribal might have even less distinguishing it from Classic Tribal than in the 100 card singleton. But I could be very wrong.
I was thinking WotC might want to do it more for the name recognition reason than anything else. I realize the differences between Legacy and Classic aren't very big, and that, to me seems like a possible reason why they "might" want to make that change.
A couple of years from now, Legacy will be more popular than classic.
At that point in time it will be easier to introduce variant formats like singleton and tribal in terms of Legacy instead of in terms of classic.
It also works as a way to promote Legacy in the short term and yet not really change all that much.
Yeah, I think WotC might be a little embarrassed by the Classic format in general since it’s just be a poor man’s version of Vintage. But I do think there should be (and that WotC probably recognizes that there should be) active, officially sanctioned formats on MODO that use all of the available card pool. That’s true in paper, and is in fact a selling point of the game, that every card you own can be played in a recognized, sanctioned format somewhere. For this reason I doubt that Classic will ever be an abandoned novelty, relegated to Freeform.
I would also grant that the differences between the Classic and Legacy cardpools should eventually become very minor, and unless Power ever comes to MODO (which the ascent of Legacy seems to refute), the argument is largely de jure.
I think from March 31st onwards Legacy will be more popular than Classic with some interference when/if the power 9 are printed. Did WotC not make an official announcement that Legacy would come out in December? I guess I'll freak out now and sadly *accomplish* buying 300 worth of bytes to fill out some of my Legacy collection. Oh man...
Still, I am excited for Legacy. That being said I'm literally going to burn a hole in my wallet right now.
Well, if they're continuing to support Legacy at the pro level ( isn't it a format @ worlds? and a GP every year now?) then it really does make sense to have Legacy online.
I'm really not all that excited over it. I think Legacy is fun, and I've played in some high ranking Legacy tournaments, but I thought Classic was an interesting format that now, never gets to live up to its full potential (there is no Classic in paper, and even the closest thing to it Vintage, never gets any *real* high level officially supported play). If Legacy came about after the release of Prophecy, then I think we may all be feeling a little differently about it.