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By: hamtastic, Erik Friborg
Sep 04 2009 12:52am
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Introduction
Editorial Section
Discussion Items
Card Price Tables *spoilers*
Card Price Graphs *spoilers*
Tournament Details
Spoiler Section *spoilers*
Conclusion

Introduction:

A slightly more orthodox layout this week, and a huge, huge, huge thanks to everyone (yes, everyone) who gave me feedback last week on the layout of the article.  Love it or hate it, I was very happy to get the culminated impacts of the change.  Not to mention that it taught me a lot about my readers that I didn't know.  Like, some print this out.  Cool!  Also, some read it top to bottom.  I never really expected that too many people did this.  Evidently I was mistaken.  So, for this week, I'm going to be a little more orthodox this week in my layout as well as continue to try to make it work for as many people as I can.  The supreme goal of this article is to efficiently disseminate relevant information to the very diverse readers.  Not a small task, to be sure.  I'll keep working toward that goal, I'll just ask that you all keep giving me feedback as to what works and what doesn't as I continue to try things out.  What I love isn't going to always be the best for my readers.  Readers>Writer every time.  Without readers there's no point to writing, so thanks again for all the feedback last week!  

I would also like to take a moment to shout out a great challenge sponsored by the fine folks at www.mymtgo.com, and that is a 100 Card Singleton challenge with a small, little prize to the winner.  *cough*FORCE OF WILL*cough*

Also, the second and third place prizes are solid as well! (Grindstone,Sword of Light and Shadow, respectively).  The sign up is here, and it's well worth the effort to sign up for mymtgo.com.

Lastly for the introduction section, I'll be hiding the price data in spoiler tags.  I'm sorry for the additional work this causes for anyone, however I can't actually discuss about 90% of this week's changes without discussing spoilers.  And out of respect for those who wish to avoid that they're spoiler tagged for your avoidance


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Editorial Section:

"10" > "10" when the 10's in question are M10 and 10th edition, respectively.  A quick tweet from the folks at WotC this week gave us this nifty little statistic: as of September 2nd, 2009, M10 has outsold 10th Edition's lifetime sales.  For those playing along at home M10 has been on sale for a little under two months and 10th edition was on sale for 24 months.  Hence, 2 > 2 when M10 is > 10E.  Also of note, MTGO had its best month ever.  Ev-er.  I find it rather difficult to wrap my head around that statement.  V3’s August beat every other month of MTGO since its inception.   Maybe I am just in “negative-Nelly” mode from too much forum exposure but that is quite amazing.

Obviously those two statistics are interrelated.  But that doesn't make it any less amazing to see MTGO continually break its own record now that we have a platform that can handle more and more users.   Yes, even without leagues, without finished multiplayer, etc, etc, etc.  I know!  It’s not finished… but the numbers are still the numbers.  And like pretty much everything in the world there is more than one way to look at this information.  The obvious one is” Wow!   Best month ever and huge M10 sales!”  That’s the good news for MTGO.  In addition, that good news is very good news.

Great news!  What does it mean?
But the story most certainly doesn’t end there.  What are the impacts of such high volume M10 purchases/sealed/etc?  There are obvious implications to limited formats since part of the ability to fund additional draft or sealed events comes from the ability to resell your opened product.  And right now, that's a painful proposition.  I recently noticed that I could sell my white boarder Hypnotic Specters for 1.05 and BUY M10 Specters for 1.00.  White border > Black border?  Obviously not, but the sheer amount of M10 Hyppies in the system has completely tanked the rare prices of the set.  M10 Birds of Paradise for example is around two tickets (give or take about .5 tickets).  Seriously.  THE BoP@2?  Unbelievable.  At least to me.

But I'm putting the cart before the horse as I'm so wont to do lately.  What I'm very interested in talking about is the impacts of such a popular set on the ecosystem of MTGO.

Casual Implications:
I already mentioned the obvious one; limited.  There's also a very positive effect, which is casual single prices.  Or is it positive?  I'm still debating that thought with myself.  I'll let you all know which side wins. I'm not saying that low prices are *bad* for the casual players, but they surely are dangerous.  One of the top notch debates on MTGO is 'what is casual?’  This generally boils down to a tournament deck is NOT casual vs. everything in the room is casual.  But what happens when those tournament staples cost 1 ticket?  Suddenly there's far less restrictions on deck building, which of course leads to higher and higher powered decks for the same price as what would be considered mid-level decks a year ago.  Seriously.  For $20 you could build a deck with 4x Birds of Paradise, 4x Hypnotic Specter, 4x Mind Shatter and still have plenty of budget left.  Cheaper singles directly translates to more powerful and usually by extension, more cut-throat casual decks.  And this isn't just related to M10, but a deeper impact of the Mythic rarity on MTGO.  Since redemption pulls out 1x of everything it's now leaving rares stranded in the system that weren't before.  This is amplified when the set is hugely popular though, like with M10 for instance.

Limited Implications:
I'll delve a little bit deeper into the limited implications now as there are a few that should be taken into account.  The first and probably most important item is the EV of a pack of the given set.  This isn’t a very complex set of equations but they are rather involved (thanks again to bubba0077 for the equation!) which essentially helps to determine the expected value of each pack in the format you're opening.  I'll list the EV of the ACR, M10, Lorwyn, Shadowmoor and Tempest formats in the price graph section this week to illustrate where we are right now in relation with each format.  My gut says that M10 will be the lowest, followed by ACR, then LRW, SHM and Tempest.  We'll see how right I am when I run the numbers.  The thing about the expected value of a pack is that it's really only relevant to the players who are trying to go infinite or coast as much as possible.  It doesn't take into account the 'fun' of playing a format.  If Tempest IS the highest EV, that doesn't make a lot of difference to the people who want to play a "fun" format, as Tempest drafting really isn't a lot of fun (for most players.  I like it, but I'm not most players...).  I expect that a set as popular as M10 will have a very low EV at this point and not even the amazing Baneslayer Angel at 26+ tickets will be able to save that. 

Baneslayer Angel

Long term value Implications:
So the EV is lowered?  What does that mean to the players?  It usually means less drafting or sealed, since the cost to play in a new event increases on the player.  Like I said “usually”.  In our case, it seems that people are far more interested in shelling out a few more dollars and playing some more than they are in playing less.  That’s a good thing for MTGO in general and probably why we just shattered 10th Edition’s sales numbers.   It also means that the market equilibrium is going to be skewed even lower than normal.  In the past, the market would stabilize when people stopped paying some amount out of pocket.  This would then allow the prices to stabilize and the single prices would level off and then new playable cards would begin to increase.  That equilibrium amount would generally be reached quite early after the release events ended.  However this time it appears that nothing will stop the players from continuing to play M10 limited.  A week after the release events I logged in to see over 2500 players on the server, with lots of players in the tournament room.  Why?  Two reasons I can think of.  The first is that it’s going to be a ‘real’ format for high level events this year.  The second is related to the first, and that is that many pros are actively writing about the format.  I read a lot of articles on the internet, mainly about MTGO stuff.  I’ve never seen a core set as well discussed as this.  It’s beginning to rival a real block in terms of coverage, strategy, discussion, debates and details.  All those discussions generate interest and intrigue for the format.  And thanks to the paper supply issues, even more people are turning to MTGO to draft M10.

Redemption:
Lastly is Set Redemption.  I'd love to get some information on how many M10 redemptions have been filled, but that data is generally not given out.  Or more specifically, these details usually aren’t given out in any way that we can actually utilize and crunch.  However, just going on some speculations it seems likely that M10 redemptions should be pretty hot ticket item.  Especially since we’ve been told that there is still a bit of a supply issue with M10 in paper stores.  I asked the supreme mugwump Worth if there were any ballpark statistics about M10 redemptions he could share.  Sadly, his answer was 'no'.  But that 'no' actually means a lot.  I'll wager that they're not 'low'.  And I also feel that if things were 'normal' that could be said.  Which leaves 'high' to be the answer of conclusion-jumping.  If only one could know what 'high' meant in this context... oh well.

Last thoughts:
Will Master’s Edition 3 take some wind out of the M10 Sales?  I don’t think so, at least not too much.  The intended markets are vastly different and the cards have a hugely divergent player base.  The amount of draw for the duals is far lower than there is for practicing for M10 events.  In fact, I don’t expect to see a lot of changes until we get to the Zendikar events.  Until then I expect that this set is likely to continue to be drafted at a record pace. 

Good Game, WotC.  Good Game indeed.
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Discussion Items:
I'm going to be honest... the new forums are a mess to navigate.  I've been trying ever so hard to make things makes sense over there but sadly failing.  Add in the fact that the MTGO boards are in their usual upcoming new set slump and it's a sad place over there.  There have been a few good topics started and carried on, but by and large, there's not a lot of discussions to be had on the MTGO front right now. 

Data Mining, Mods, and the taste of feet -
I usually don't like to poke fun at the WotC's and generally give them some *major* benefit of the doubt.  However, a recent tweet by Aaron Forsythe left me reeling: "Hey data-vaulters! Don't look for handouts; write mods like the WoW players did!".  Now to be fair there's history behind that quote.  Recently, an article on channelfireball.com made a very long argument about getting a lot of important data from MTGO.  An argument that I support, of course.  To respond to this, AaFo essentially opened a can of craw wurm with the above tweet.  Now, my belief is that it's an ignorant statement of either WoW, MTGO, our Terms of Service or some variations thereof: Entwined + Kicked.  We can't 'mod' MTGO without getting banned.  We can't get the data that was asked for from the client side... I'm still unsure of what he thought was asked for and why he thought we could do it ourselves. 

Mythics, Redemption, Paper Prices -
Good ol' Mythics!  I have to admit that for a lot of things, I like what Mythics have done for MTG and MTGO.  Decreased rare prices, higher value 'crap timmy' cards, etc.  The only real downside thus far is that it usually means that one or two cards end up carrying most of the price of the set... oh wait, we already had that... (goyf, Figure of Destiny, etc).  Actually, as near as I can tell, the price curve is almost exactly the same with one or two cards being head and shoulders above the rest, then a clump of good cards (like Maelstrom Pulse), then the rest. 


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Price Tables:

 

Show Spoilers!

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Price Graphs:

Show Spoilers

 

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Tournament:
Master's Edition 3 Pre-Release events start happen this Friday and Saturday, followed by the official release of the product in the store on Monday.
Release events will last from Wednesday the 9th of September until Friday the 18th of September.  That means that the window of opportunity will be pretty small to get in on the events.  If Classic/Legacy is your eventual goal plan for a busy few days over the next few weeks.
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Spoilers

Show Spoilers

 


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Conclusion:
Just like last time, I'd love to get feedback on the formatting of the article.  This should resolve a few of the issues that were mentioned last week about the flow, and the ability to just keep moving through the article while also allowing for navigation short-cuts.  I'll also apologize to our content editor JXClaytor for the div tags.... I know they're a pain to edit (since you have to do it in Source View... *frown-town* )! 

See ya in 7!
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28 Comments

i love this format...i think by Anonymous (not verified) at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 01:07
Anonymous's picture

i love this format...i think the back to top part is amazing..that said i read the whole thing so i might not count much opinion wise.

The MED3 "prerelease" is a by Anonymous (not verified) at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 01:15
Anonymous's picture

The MED3 "prerelease" is a complete joke.

- WORSE prize support than even previous "prerelease" events despite the set being non-redeemable.

- No promo card for your 30 tix.

- Four events at specific times. No more "run events whenever they fire".

To top it off, they have ruined Classic for the holiday weekend with this garbage. Some dude is going to buy up four Mana Drains (out of the 10 that get opened this weekend) and roll everyone else. Not a fair format.

Thanks Wizards for encouraging me to get out this weekend and do something other than MTGO.

Funny I didn't even think by Paul Leicht at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 03:03
Paul Leicht's picture

Funny I didn't even think about that corner the market mentality that will cause Mana Drains to be exceedingly hard to get. I agree if that happens it will hurt the classic tourneys short term. And of course ME3 is really not a good limited set so they don't expect people to care and thus have no prize support (my view). I imagine they figure the people drafting it and playing sealed will be in it for the power 10 (whatever the top 10 cards are). Which is sort of what you expect with the thought of possible Mana Drain hording. I concur which is why I am sad that it is not a good limited set, because I'd be tempted to play for packs if it was.

dangerlinto's picture

That equates to 51 Mana Drains, not including foils.

Not enough, obviously, for the community, but not as bad as 10.

I agree the format was inconsiderate of MTGO.

It's hard to believe that M10 by wasted at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 01:42
wasted's picture

It's hard to believe that M10 has already outsold 10th edition! How is that even possible? Best core set ever? Do you think there's any chance that future expansion sets will be as popular, or just core sets?

Sorry, but like the anonymous poster before me I read the article straight through so I can't really comment on the format. I do like it more than last week, though.

So, with all of the M10 being opened how long am I going to have to wait for Baneslayer to drop in price? I was one of the bums that sold the ones I had too early.

vastly superior formatting! by FierceTable (not verified) at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 02:11
FierceTable's picture

I love the new format: simple (read: clean and easy to use) and effective. I'm still a reader who reads the whole thing from top to bottom so look elsewhere for more critical feedback. It's almost sad...you've been doing this for so long now that I almost take all the work you put into this for granted. I really appreciate it and it's completely worth waiting until 3am to read it all :-p

I am glad I held on to my by Paul Leicht at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 02:59
Paul Leicht's picture
5

I am glad I held on to my KotRs. Someone wanted them for a bunch of jank commons and 2 Tolsimirs. I was like..."er no." And he wanted 3x not just 1. I expect Landfall will be a huge mechanic based on just the one card I saw.

I was really excited to read about ME3 a few weeks ago when everyone started writing those articles but my excitement has dimmed since I've thought more about the set. The thing that kicks me is that it isn't draftable like a normal set. Its like if you took out your old box of legends, antiquities and dark and what not and mixed them with some other interesting cards but None of those sets were designed with drafting in mind. There does not seem to be any balance that I can see. Please correct me if I am wrong. For those who specialize in drafting write ups...I'd love to see someone tackle this issue before the set goes on sale (Monday?).

FTV:E is another non-excitement. (But wow did Berserk take a hit?)

Did you notice that the Commander decks which are out now have generated no pricings from the major sites (including this one)? Man O War for example is entirely unlisted. I have a few wants from those decks (Yavimaya Elders, Man O War) but not enough tix to buy one flat out. (By the way in terms of playability I've played against the Rubineya deck more than once in 100s and it is not bad for a canned deck.

Anyway good article as per usual. I think the table of contents style of menu is best in terms of article readability. Yes the menu bar is fancier and seems more "magical" but as was pointed it is not great UI. (By the way, a very small css tip: Use "cursor: pointer;" for javascript link tag container styles so that it shows a hand when you hover over the tag. This way it's clear where the link is for the less visually enabled.)

Draftable? Yes... by dangerlinto at Sat, 09/05/2009 - 13:07
dangerlinto's picture

NOw if you were basing your purchase entirely on what is going to be the more exciting limited environmen - ME3, M10, or ACA, I think you'll find ME3 is REALLY far down below current sets.

But then, who buys ME3 purely for the limited experience? :)

That being said, they included reprints like Fellwar Stone, Boomerang, Disenchant etc... for a reason - to get the limited game on track.

Great article - read it all the way through by xXWarIsPeaceXx (not verified) at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 03:06
xXWarIsPeaceXx's picture

Doh... problem is it was enaging and interesting. Had no interest in returning to the top to find other options...

Great as always. Thank-god I already got all my fetches...

M10 vs 10th edition by END_BOSS (not verified) at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 03:41
END_BOSS's picture

the only reason why M10 has outsold 10th edition is because M10 was a actual format that pros "had" to pay attention to....pros didnt have to pay attention to 10th edition becuase there were no Grand Prix's for it...and i think playability 10th edition was a better, more skill intensive format then M10....

well im glad to see mtgo by Anonymous (not verified) at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 07:13
Anonymous's picture

well im glad to see mtgo popularity skyrocket, now maybe its time to balance out the cost of a digital pack? how about "box" discounts, how about anything? the resale is in the toliet, help a brother out wotc! and what about lifetime rewards, anything new about that. is anyone buying ftv:e online? i h8 the fact the paper is now 150+ sheesh. thanks again. i had a chanch to drive over an hour away to get one, but no dice.

sorry to see my extensive collection worth jack online. on well, my EV was not taking in account when logging in. any way of rebounding? crazy redemption maybe?

i wont even comment on ZEN as to keep the comments spoiler free, ill keep that for next week.

love the friday article btw ham

Problems with mtgo by fatguy_poolshark (not verified) at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 07:50
fatguy_poolshark's picture

One of the big things I havent seen mentioned is who the hell is coming up with our players rewards programs? Seriously this month must be cards that became beyond bad thanks to the M10 rules changes. Baloth and wish are so bad.

REWARDS by menace13 at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 07:53
menace13's picture

baloth is meh now but wishes are still highly played

hi by speks at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:57
speks's picture
5

one minor thing, when i have the price table "show spoilers" open, and then click into a card, and then hit back to come back to the article, it brings me to the very bottom of the article with the price table collapsed again. i have to scroll back up to find where i was and open the price table again. not sure if theres anything that can be done, but figured i'd just give the feedback, its very minor. overall the new format is great, i luv it, very easy to read and follow and click into, great work thanks!!
and the content is excellent too, thanks!

*Spoilers???* Allied Fetches by theintangiblefatman at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 12:09
theintangiblefatman's picture

*Spoilers???*

Allied Fetches are not in Zendikar; pretty easily verified with the Orb of Insight thing. I've seen some speculation that they might be in the next set, but it's all been completely unfounded.

enemy fetch by menace13 at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 15:27
menace13's picture

how is this verified by the orb[just curious as you didnt state any evidence]

You stick a word from a name by theintangiblefatman at Sat, 09/05/2009 - 13:21
theintangiblefatman's picture

You stick a word from a name in (I tried Windswept and Heath) and get 0. I'm pretty sure it does card names, as Harrow has been "verified" like this.

You are my hero by Deckwizard (not verified) at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 12:10
Deckwizard's picture

Erik,

Friday is already one of my favorite days of the week, but you writing this article makes it even better. I think this format is great (contrasting my critical review last week). It is a blend of the traditional and the new, encompassing what you were hoping to get out of last week without making it difficult for those of us who read from beginning to end.

Keep up the good work man.

M10 sales by pierrebai (not verified) at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 13:03
pierrebai's picture

I'm not surprised M10 outsold 10E so fast. Core sets used to be all-reprints, which mean any experienced player had no value in buying and playing it. The unfortunate effect the M10 sales will have is that it's almost certain blue pin-stripped suit wearing guys at Wizards will put pressure to repeat that feat, which mean that future core sets will also be 50% new cards, full of functional reprints and the 1-year churn will stay. No way Hasbro will spit on such nice, easy money. I just hope that they won't ruin the magic soup by making everyone tired of having to rebuy core cards every year.

To me, mythics, new core set strategy and the never-ending stream of rare must-have lands all point in a single direction: the perfection of the magic money machine.

Despite M10 outselling 10th I by Paul Leicht at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 14:51
Paul Leicht's picture

Despite M10 outselling 10th I believe 10th was quite popular not because of reprints but because it had black borders. Yes it is a ridiculous thing to care about the look of the cards played but I do and I think so do many players. The black bordered cards are more attractive and had people coming back for more.

Obviously WOTC being a capitalist venture owned by a huge game corp (Hasbro) has to look out for the bottom line. But I don't think that is best done by going straight for the money grab. No matter how many packs of m10 sell if it ends up crippling the game the company will fail. I don't think WOTC is in the money grab business. Now if they have a strategy for maximizing their profits while still intriguing and somewhat satisfying their customers (100% satisfaction can never be truly guaranteed as there are too many conflicting interests) that is all par for the course and is what in fact enables the game to continue in good health. A money making machine makes money for a reason. I agree that rebalancing the rarities and changing the core set have upset the apple cart for many players but I suggest this change has been a good thing even if you end up spending more on your favorite (addiction) hobby.

Change by RagMan17 at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 15:10
RagMan17's picture

The changing of the core set resulted in more packs being sold which has dropped the prices through the floor, this actually has me now spending less on my favorite (addiction) hobby.

I just love getting more for my money right now than ever before, now if only WOTC would institute a discount on bulk buys.

RagMan

I read from beginning to end by platipus10 at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 15:40
platipus10's picture

I read from beginning to end and this layout is far superior.

Top to Bottom by Katastrophe at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 22:35
Katastrophe's picture
5

I read the whole thing top to bottom. I prefer this format!

M10 has outsold 10E lifetime already? wooooooooooooooooooooow. But then again, I can see it. I mean, I can see the M10 in the marketplace. There are tons of M10 singles out there to buy and sell.

About casual decks becoming more powerful. The buying prices for Birds/Silence/Pithing Needle are around 1 ticket, +/- 1 ticket, and the dual lands are at ~3.5 depending on the dual. I've seen far more than usual casual buyers of M10 (including myself) trying to get the cards at those prices. As for Birds being 2 tix, don't forget that the exalted Noble is squeezing the Birds, too. So yeah, causal decks are now running BoP and Silence. But that's not all! For the first time ever a good set of good duals is affordable. It used to be true that the painlands were high because they were standard staples, and the shocklands were high because they were used universally. So the casual players had to play crappy duals like the uncommon CITP tapped lands from Invasion and Alara. But now the painlands have dropped to roflcopter levels and the Classic players are ditching their shocklands for real duals. River of Tears, Grove of the Burnwillows, and the other "future duals" are around one ticket, give or take. mtgotraders has Battlefield Forge at 80 cents! Black bordered!

timmeh by Katastrophe at Fri, 09/04/2009 - 22:49
Katastrophe's picture

Of course, black bordered Royal Assassins, Shivans, Clones, Might of Oaks, Elvish Piper, and Manabarbs are all 10-25 cents each. That makes Timmy happy.

Timmy can also get Underworld Dreams, Coat of Arms, and Traumatize two for a ticket, too.

Hey Timmy, how much would you pay for a Darksteel Colossus or Ball Lightning? 6 tickets? Maybe 7? How about 2! Oh boy!

Loxodon Warhammer is $1 with plenty in stock. Wrath is $5. MTGO 10E is cheaper than printing your own proxies.

LOL! Nice post. Yeah the bad by Paul Leicht at Sat, 09/05/2009 - 00:44
Paul Leicht's picture

LOL! Nice post. Yeah the bad cards are cheap (Though Clone sees good use in some singleton decks...Legend??What Legend?). The great thing is that good cards (relative to the set) are also lowered (not including Baneslayers).

I just wanted to say that by Lord Erman at Sat, 09/05/2009 - 14:39
Lord Erman's picture
5

I just wanted to say that this version looks much nicer Hammy. And good job as always.

LE

Great article! by Beckman (not verified) at Sun, 09/06/2009 - 19:47
Beckman's picture

I just want to thank you fot the enjoyable article. Every week I check for this, and I'm never disappointed. Keep up the good work!

I was kicking myself because by Amar at Tue, 09/08/2009 - 05:34
Amar's picture
5

I was kicking myself because early, at the first foreshadowing of "Landsapalooza", I thought to myself to buy Knight of the Reliquary at 0.5-ish. Then I got busy/forgot, until about the same time this went out.

But only half a week past this article, KotR has already continued it's climb up to 4.50. That makes it the second most expensive rare in Conflux, behind only Noble Hierarch (5.25). Speculation is mighty, but I think this is a bit overboard.

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