The StarCity Games Top 16 - What's Missing
StarCity Games has been running a series of paper tournaments - the SCG Open Series - for several years now. The events pay out $5,000 in prizes, so they get a good turnout. The Series now tends to have a Standard event on Saturday, and a Legacy event on Sunday. The most recent Legacy event was in Los Angeles. The Top 8 featured EIGHT different archetypes, and the Top 16 had thirteen. That variety sure beats Standard - the Saturday Open had eight Jund decks - nine if you count the splash blue version. That makes it pretty clear why Legacy seems more popular than Standard, with many players.
Wizards has announced that Legacy will become an official online format late this year. That probably means shortly after MEDIV arrives. The next year wiill have several significant classic-set releases - ending with MEDIV. Here they are.
- Dual Decks: Phyrexia vs. the Coalition - March, 2010
- Urza's Saga: end of March, 2010
- Urza's Legacy - June, 2010
- From the Vaults - Relics (date not yet announced)
- Masters Edition IV - December, 2010
I can't find any announcements beyond that, but I would assume that Urza's Destiny would come out in March, 2011, and Masques block shortly thereafter. With any luck, Masques block will be offered like Alara Block now - boosters with all of Masques block mixed together, so we can draft the whole set. That would also get more Legacy cards online a few months faster.
It will also be interesting to see what Wizards does about the huge problems resulting from the undersupply of cards from Tempest block - especially Exodus. I have been trying - unsuccessfully - to buy some of these cards. They do not seem to be available at any price. Unless Wizards does something, Classic, and probably Legacy, are doomed. They will join Prismatic and Vanguard as dead formats.
Well, I can always play Legacy in paper.
Let's move on to a more positive stuff - decklists!
I love the winner's deck. I have played Enchantress decks for years - over a decade, actually. I first played Enchantress in PTQs late last century. It is great to see one do well again.
Enchantress is a non-blue card drawing machine. It is amazing. I have outdrawn everything with the exception of High Tide / Stroke decks and Academy - but it is insane. More practically, though, let's look at a breakdown of the cards that are not yet online, and where they may appear.
- Urza's Saga: Serra's Sanctum, Argothian Enchantress
- Urza's Legacy: (nothing)
- Urza's Destiny: Replenish,
- Masques Block: (nothing)
- MEDIV?: (nothing)
In short, don't expect to play this until 2011, at the earliest. However, once Urza's Destiny does appear online, we will have the whole deck.
The second place deck is already online. This deck can't beat Oath or some of the Classic combo decks, but once Legacy eliminates that opposition, this completely playable. Well - almost. The deck includes 3 Red Elemental Blasts. REBs are almost the same as Pyroblast, which we have, but not quite. The difference is slight - the Red Elemental Blast can target a non-blue spell or permanent, it just does nothing. However, I really hope REB and BEB are in MEDIV, because having 8 blasts available can be important, and not just in Painter's Servant decks.
The UW Tempo deck features a return of Serra Avenger, a card I have not seen in quite a while. The deck is almost complete already - it just needs Mother of Runes from Urza's Legacy. It is a nice little aggro deck - and it did make Top 16 in a tournament with about 130 players.
The fourth place deck is another deck that is complete already - and I have seen variations on this being played in Classic already. This will continue to be good, and is yet another reason to try for the Force of Will and Natural Orders. They will hold their value, even if the banned in Legacy Classic cards tumble. Of course, if Wizards punts, and does nothing to up the supply of Tempest block cards, especially Exodus, then both formats are going to wither, and buying cards in them is a bad idea. (I hope not - I spent $100 on them yesterday.)
Holy Deja vu, Batman, this deck is also already present online. Well - almost. It is missing Submerge, another Masques block card. Submerge is a bounce card, but it is free to cast if you control an Island and your opponent controls a Forest.
Dredge decks already show up in Classic, on occasion. Legacy Dredge decks lose Bazaar of Baghdad, but that's about it. The main card in this build and not present online is Unmask - which is a "free" Coercion that requires removing a black card from the game. The best reason to play it is that you can target yourself, leading to plays like Unmask to discard Golgari Grave Troll, giving you a dredge card for next turn. Unmask can be big in Reanimator decks, too.
Once again, it looks like the main deck is already complete online, so the deck editor included everything, but the sideboard is only 11 cards. The missing cards are four Submerges. I wonder if Wizards will put them in a future Planeswalker v. Planeswalker pack, or if we have to wait for Nemesis.
If you cannot afford a bunch of dual lands, this is the deck for you. Belcher runs just two lands. It also runs Land Grant, another of the Mercadian Masques "free" spells. (Have you noted that the only cards being played from Masques block are free spells - those with alternative casting costs?) Land Grant's cost is to reveal your hand, and show that it contains no lands. Land Grant fetches a Forest (and therefore also a Taiga or Bayou.)
Belcher decks have appeared in Classic events on occasion.
All cards in the ninth place deck are available on Magic Online.
This is better than I had thought. Not a lot missing. Let's move on.
All there.
Well, the deck list generator does not recognize Goblin Lackey as being online, yet. It is - and you can have four if you bought four From the Vault: Exileds. Lackey will arrive - in numbers - in Urza's Saga. Personally, I have never understood why people play Goblins, but they do.
The twelfth place deck was Dredge, again.
The next deck was something a bit different, although GB beatdown decks with Goyf, Tombstalker and so forth are not exactly scarce in Classic events. The missing pieces, here, are Snuff Out (unless you got one in Garruck vs. Liliana) and Sink Hole. Sink Hole is a Stone Rain that costs just BB. It is a critical part of the Legacy metagame, and it really needs to be in MEDIV if online Legacy is to become a real method of testing for paper Legacy GPs. Yes, I know people, including Wizards, hate LD, but we still need it.
Once again, the main deck is complete, but the decklist generator missed some sideboard cards. The missing cards are a pair of Blue Elemental Blasts and Back to Basics - an Urza's Saga rare. Back to Basics is an enchantment which costs 2B - and when it is out, non-basic lands do not untap. Personally, I hate Back to Basic almost as much as I hate Stasis.
I want to add two more archetypes - Stax and 43 Land. Both of these have seen a ton of play in recent years. I'm not completely sure why Stax is falling, but 43 Land did very well at the last SCG event, in St. Louis, so the hate for it was everywhere. It will return.
Stax is a mana-denial / lock deck, which is truly annoying to play against. Fortunately, a lot of pieces are still missing - including:
- Urza's Saga: Exploraton, Smokestack
- Masques Block: Rishadan Port
- MEDIV?: Maze of Ith (this has to be in MEDIV - it is iconic.)
City of Traitors isn't really missing, but I have been trying, and failing, to buy some for quite a while, so I'm not going to fix the link. MTGOTraders is out..
The deck does stupid things with lands. It dredges, cycles lands, then draws them all back from the graveyard with Life from the Loam. The deck really runs off Manabond, though, and it pisses me off that I have tried to buy them for weeks and only have two. With Manabond
the 43 Land player simply pukes all his/her land into play at end of turn.
The deck is missing several cards. Gamble is a red tutor from Urza's Saga. Exploration is also a Saga card. Maze of Ith is old - and it has to be in MEDIV. Rishadan Port is Masques - and a massively annoying land it is, too. The rest we have.
In summary - we have most of the cards used in the dozen plus major Legacy archetypes already online. A few more are coming. Here's a recap:
- Urza's Saga: Serra's Sanctum, Argothian Enchantress, Exploration, Gamble, Smokestack, Goblin Lackey, Back to Basics,
- Urza's Legacy: Mother of Ruins
- Urza's Destiny: Replenish
- Masques Block: Submerge, Snuff Out, Land Grant, Rishadan Port, Unmask
- MEDIV?: Maze of Ith, REB, BEB, Sinkhole.
The other problem that Wizards will have to deal with is the shortage of cards from Tempest and Mirage blocks. One way we may be able to tell is if critical cards are included in the From the Vaults and Planeswalker vs. Planeswalkers sets. For example, From the Vaults: Relics could include Null Rod. That won't cause problems with the paper supplies, since Null Rod is only $7-$9 in paper, but it would add to the online supply. Lion's Eye Diamond and Phyrexian Dreadnought are tougher, since they cost $30 and $35 in paper as well, making them too damaging to retailers to include in a set that retails for about the price of just one of those cards. For the same reason, expect to see cards like Sol Ring and Nev's Disk in Relics, but not the Power Nine or something like Mana Crypt (which costs a whole lot more in paper than online.)
They also have to do something about the other Exodus cards. Having high prices is one thing - the cards are simply not available anywhere. I have been trying to buy Survivals, 2 more Mana Bonds and so forth for three weeks now. I have shopped online, bots, and posted buy requests. No one is offering any, at any price. That's not a good thing.
PRJ
"one million words" on MTGO
34 Comments
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/356
It's underneath the picture, along with the price tag of $34.99
Null Rod, LED and Dreadnought can't (won't) be in Relics, they're on the reserve list.
It always amuses me that people treat the reserve list like it's a law. It's just a policy, if they think it's best to break it, then they will. Reprinting of old sets anyone? (IPA..)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not flaming/hating anything by saying this.
I made the same point to Chris a couple of days ago, Pete. he agreed. Expensive is one thing - but unavailable is another.
The best solution that I can see WoTC going for is to put NixPax/NixTix TTSSEE Sealed Swiss Queues with high payout like MED2 did when there weren't enough duals to go around. Only problem is the nix pax portion, since TSE will still not be available at the store, it would really help out to get more Wasteland, Mox Diamonds and Exodus legacy rares into the system, and to a lesser extent other Tempest rares like Intuition won't hurt.
As for FoW and Mirage cards - there is little hope there. The Mirage block is so big, your chances of getting dreadnought or LED are small - drafting won't help. A single pack of MED in the upcoming MED123 drafts means a FOW will be cracked every 7.5 drats. Not enough to really put a dent in any increased demand for the card.
One the set releases...everything I have seen has Urza's Destiny coming out in December similar to Exouds not March. Ive been watching this set due to my sick desire to own a playset of Carnival Of Souls.
Destiny will be 2011.
Saga - March 29
Legacy - June 21
MEDIV - Dec 13
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/112...
ugh thanks for spoiling my getting into playing classic dreams for another year...
I think that they should return classic events to TSE payouts.... I have tons of MED3 that hardly ever fires.... but only so much TSE. well mostly Exodus.... I wonder how long befre cracking exodus packs becomes profitable?
I think this is a terrible idea. Whenever you switch payout to a 3-block out-of-print set. The 2-man queues flood the market with one of 3 set's packs, making that set's pack worth severely less than the other 2 sets' packs. This makes it difficult for drafters to complete draft sets AND constructed players start to dislike the unbalanced prize payouts.
Switching the prize payout from one classic set to another is a temporary solution that does little to address the overall problem of a lack of demand for drafting older sets.
Before you ask, I already asked WoTC if they could make a TSE Block pack to solve that problem (like the ARB block pack) but apparently such a suggestion would take a long time to implement. Just relating what I was told.
Thanks, I'm glad you asked.
I had the brilliant sugestion once to have a queue for each pack of the block available in two player... but it hasn't been implemented.
My point is... we have been getting MED3 in Classic queues since um... September? We got TSE payout for 2 weeks and we are back to MED3 payout. The only source of new TSE packs is currently TSE nix pack queues as TSE is not sold in stores. The queues (both TSe and MED3) are rarely firing. However, if Classic DEs and PEs paid out in TSe I think that it would make the TSE queues fire a little bit more...
I'm just trying to think of ways for Wotc to get more TSE into the system. and with no queues paying out TSE I don't foresee a lot of exodus drafting/sealeds firing.
The current system for introducing old sets is frustrating and bad. There are two categories of ways to improve the system.
1) Change the ways in which classic packs are distributed and used.
2) Bribe us to play classic draft and sealed deck events with very favorable prizes.
At this point, I believe that WotC is more likely to choose an option from number 2 rather than number 1. Even though they are just going to run into the same problem again in Urza's block and once again in the Mercadian Block.
The problem is that newer sets are better designed for draft and sealed environments. The main reason people draft older sets is for Nostalgia. However if you are drawn to older sets because of Nostagia, it's unlikely that you'll want to keep drafting it over and over again. Unfortunetly, that's just what the current prizes encourage you to do.
This may already be known, but since I have only been on MTGO for a few months I will pose this question. The Masters Edition Sets are available for longer than the release event period correct? If yes, then why are the classic sets not available for a much longer time span. When the product was released in paper we were able to buy it for much longer than two weeks? Are they trying to not overcrowd the store with sets?
For me personally Exodus was released at a rather inopportune time. My wife just had surgery and was on disibilty for a couple of weeks and Christmas just added to the temorary shortage of funds. I didn't even really play any events at that time.
Why do they do not release the sets for a longer time period?
It was to stop crowding the stores with sets that don't fire off drafts. Apparently newbs would jump in there, buy a draft set of X classic set and then get frustrated waiting for a draft to fire. Ostensibly, that's the reason - WoTC doesn't want frustrated newbs. It's two weeks because that is the time at which MTGO metrics showed the classic sets would experience sharp decline in interest.
Personally, I agree with the policy, but what I don't like is that if they want to run nixtix events for those drafts for sets that were only up for 2 weeks, they should put packs back at the store rather than nixPax events.
Now if they want to get more TSE into the system, they have to run a dual event - one nix tix and one nix pax (12-15 tix) just to get them to run. If their software would allw you to enter with EITHER packs or tix, that would be fine - it would be just one queue - but with two queues it's much harder to get 8 people in either one.
I guess I understand the policy, but disagree with it to an extent. I personally believe that a few people being unhappy about drafts not firing should not dictate policy for a larger group.
I have no problem with Force of Will being so expensive as it is at least available. When a card can't even be purchsed we have a problem.
I will personally be participating in the Nix/Pax events when they become available.
I strongly dislike the whole Nix Tix/ Nix Packs queues. I understand the need for them, but they simply divide the small amount of players interested in drafting classic sets and make it that much harder and more frustrating to get them started.
It also feels like a very poor solution to a problem. There has to be something better that WotC can try.
I have seen a lot of people over the last few weeks advertising on classified that they are buying Exodus chase rares. It's not that the cards are not available; most folks just don't offer what the stuff is worth. Pete, when you are saying that you need 2 more Manabonds and you are chasing them for weeks it would probably make sense to offer more then 3.5 for one when every dealer is sold out at 5. Just my two cents.
I do agree however that the supply is low - we will see if Wizards sees a need to do anything about it.
I've been trying to get a survival for a while and I've offered 3-4 tickets above anyone else on the boards. Still no takers.... I don't think it's a matter of price...
It's not a matter of price.
Anonymous, those people you see posting on the classifieds are just hoping to take in a sucker who simply doesn't know better and just happens to have one of those cards - probably they have got 0 buys with those price.
I have offered to buy for up to 7 a piece. No one is selling.
I went up to 25 for Survival - nothing. I can't afford to pay more than that.
Bought today a set of Manabond. Costly but definitly not impossible. (Avg. price was 6.5 btw.)
I don't think you are looking hard enough. The first 6 bots i tried all had 4 manabond in stock.
I have 4x that I will sell for 7 if you contact me online.
Lol did you buy all of them? Maybe thats why he couldn't find any.
Which queues are paying out in ME3 now? The Classic DE today paid out TSE...
I agree that the marketplace on Exodus singles is depressing. I've got more $20 Tundras (two) and $3 fetchlands (10+ ZEN, 2 ONS) than I do $3 Manabonds (zero). And I just bought a $26 Mox Diamond today! I'm hardcore at this marketplace stuff, and even I stopped trying to buy Exodus cards. They're a waste of my precious 255 characters. (I'm a human, not a store, and I only buy cards for myself, never to speculate. And I still considered opening a second account and two-boxing MTGO just to have two marketplace ads!)
The real problem is that WoTC burns unsold digital cards. I made this post concerning ME1, too. In paper, let's say you have a miserable set like Champions of Kamigawa. An unsold box of that might be $50-60 now. No one wants it, but the fact that it exists keeps those singles prices low. ME1 is in a similar boat. We only crack ME1 packs begrudgingly. But unlike Kamigawa, we don't have the option of drafting a block from two years ago on a budget.
Wizards has a major problem coming up with Masques and the solution to that problem is relevant today. In paper, Masques sold because we didn't know it had a low power level yet, it was Standard legal, and why not buy some of the new set am I right? And then sales quickly dropped off - but the cards made it into existence first. And now that we know better than to buy Masques, we won't. Therefore in response to our lack of demand, WotC will either "not print" or burn the cards, and here we are. Wizards wants to give us the singles. I bet they don't even care about the events firing so much as long as they get paid. They just want to make cards available online! That's why ME2 was 'free' to draft. I think that's why they make Master's Editions with things like Sorrow's Path in them. It's all about getting the cards out there.
Ideas I Like (none of these are mine):
- Set the MSRP to match the paper MSRP ($3, $3.20, or $3.50).
- Increase the payout of certain events to include complete sets. Imagine a 32-man constructed event that cost 6 tickets. Wizards got 192 tickets. Payouts are a set for 1st and boosters for whoever else. While the payout is in Exodus that's basically a clever way of saying "go 5-0 = Oath of Druids + Rec/Sur". That will totally fire!
- Introduce a block booster to iron out any TE or ST price issues. Wizards wants you to to crack them all, anyway.
- Bring back leagues and let the casual people start cracking packs again.
Leagues are definitely an unexploited method of propagating cards into the community. Not sure I am all for the other ideas though the 5-0 for the top 3 cards idea is funny.
"I still considered opening a second account and two-boxing MTGO just to have two marketplace ads!"
FYI, if you run the exe called MTGO_NET in the root Magic Online III folder, you can have two accounts open on the same PC.
WHOA!
Thank you for the helpful information. It never comes up in normal conversation, it's not in the official FAQ, and actually I remember hearing the opposite - that it couldn't be done. Thank you!
For a very long time it wasn't allowed by the server but then around june or july last year they reversed it and allowed that. Made trading between accounts owned by the same person a bit easier.
Saying you can't find survival of the fittest when you're paying nearly 10 tix below the bot sell price is just silly. There are cards out there if you're willing the pay the going rate. That's like me saying I've been looking for a year for a foil underground sea. Then having you find out a few days later that I'm paying 15 tix for it.
For the record, at 8:49 EST there's currently 2 survival of the fittest on mtgotraders.com available at 34 tix.
I agree that it would be nice to have more tempest block cards available, but I really don't see classic "withering" up into a "dead format" without them. I don't think that's possible, frankly.
As others have said, the cards are available in bots if you are willing to pay the going rate.
As to what I'm missing from my Exodus -- 2 Survivals and a Spike Weaver. I bought a Survival for 11, and then another for 18, but they keep going up, which normally I don't mind. Survival is easy if you pay 35. I'm unsure I'll ever be willing to pay it though.
Wizards has never cared if single cards break 100 each (chant/deed/vindicate) back in the day online, and I don't see Oath going past Force of Will in price, personally. That's still much less than 100.
You might as well complain about the price of Baneslayer Angel in standard due to 'availability issues' from mythic rarity.
So full of errors and misinformation. Every Legacy staple from Tempest and Mirage block is readily available online if you actually look. And the VAST majority of them are much cheaper than the paper price to boot. Additionally, do a quick check on Star City and you will see that about half the Tempest block staples are actually out of stock in paper.
P.S. Supernova has 5 Survivals right now, and its price is dropping. It was 40+ only last month.
Stop spreading lies.
Quote: "I have offered to buy for up to 7 a piece. No one is selling. I went up to 25 for Survival - nothing. I can't afford to pay more than that."
Right let's get this straight. You attempted to purchase Manabond and Survival at 80% and 60% respectively of their going market price. No one leapt forward in a glow of altruism to offer you this truely amazing deal, and you now conclude that no one is selling, the cards are unavailable, and it's not about price!!
Riiiiight.
P.S. If anyone is stupid enough to sell Manabond and Survival for 7 and 25, I'll take a playset of both too. In fact I'll go as far as 8 and 26.