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By: Leviathan, Mike Morales
Jul 14 2010 12:55am
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I.  Introduction

It's not always easy to come up with stuff and decks to write about.  So after I wrote about Teneb, the Harvester a couple weeks ago, I asked in the comments for things that people would want me to write about.  Luckily ShardFenix was up to the task and asked for a deck doctor article.  I don't know if I'm an expert, but I'm always willing to give people recommendations in forums.  So I guess this is just the next step!

The doctor will see you now!

II.  The Deck:  Let's Get to Work!

So ShardFenix posted a deck in the comments, noting that he had a couple of second place finishes with it.  He also noted that it was a budget deck, coming in around 5 tix.  It uses a lot of stealing and sacrifice effects to control the board.  Let's take a look at what he was using:


The average CMC of this deck is 3.94, which is actually pretty good.  Here's the curve:

1:  6 cards
2:  14 cards
3:  12 cards
4:  7 cards
5:  7 cards
6:  10 cards
7:  5 cards
8:  1 card
12:  1 card 

There's a bunch of 6 casting cost cards.  We can work on the curve a little bit.  So just looking at the deck, I notice a couple of other things.  Obviously, playing a deck using only red and black leads to weaknesses against enchantments.  Also, there are a lot of sacrifice effects.  What happens if you draw the sac effects, but no threaten effects?  So the deck needs to have extra creatures to sacrifice, especially since there are only 17.  So we need to add creatures or token producers, preferably both.  In addition, the deck doesn't have a whole lot of ways to draw cards.  In order to overcome the weaknesses of the colors, you need to be able to come up with card advantage, virtually or otherwise.  In addition, I wanted to make sure that the deck is still budget.  I used the cheapest version of a card available when coming up with prices.  Let's start making changes!

CMC 1: 
Out - Blaze, Tortured Existence;
In - Relic of Progenitus (.05):  Blaze just didn't do enough, and Tortured Existence was one of many sacrifice outlets.  The Relic helps with graveyard hate and can cantrip.

CMC 2: 
Out - Grim Discovery, Prismatic Lens, Prophetic Prism, Rakdos Riteknife, Shivan Harvest, Smash to Smithereens, Smother, Terror
In - Armillary Sphere (.02), Ashling the Pilgrim (.12), Journeyer's Kite (.35), Nezumi Graverobber (.08), Oversold Cemetery (.60), Talisman of Indulgence (.04), Withered Wretch (.10):  Some of the removal was a little to restrictive, so I took it out.  In addition, the mana accel had a tougher time of making colored mana than I wanted.  I replaced it with other forms of mana accel and search.  I also have some additional graveyard hate, as well as recursion with Oversold Cemetery and Nezumi Graverobber.  Remember, recursion is card advantage.  Finally, Ashling is good in the early game as a beater, and in the late game as a way to wipe the board.

Ashling the PilgrimNezumi GraverobberGoblin AssaultOversold Cemetery

CMC 3: 
Out - Anathemancer, Kaervek's Purge, Pain Magnification, Phyrexian Vault;
In - Foriysian Totem (.04), Goblin Assault (.70), Pawn of Ulamog (.12), Viashino Heretic (.25):  The Vault wasn't the best sac outlet, as you could only use it once per turn.  The other cards were underwhelming.  I replaced them with a token producer that doesn't cost mana, some accel that can turn into offense and defense late game, and the Pawn that benefits you when you sacrifice stuff.

CMC 4: 
Out - Icy Manipulator, Infectious Horror, Sulfurous Blast;
In - Ambition's Cost (.04), Diabolic Tutor (.05), Grab the Reins (.04), Graveborn Muse (.12), Rakka Mar (.10), Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed (.12):  Icy Manipulator is decent at tapping down Eldrazi, but I would rather have something more powerful.  I added a couple methods of card draw, plus a good token generator in Rakka Mar.  Xiahou Dun is great recursion, and works real well with Oversold Cemetery.

Ambition's CostKumano, Master YamabushiPromise of PowerGrab the Reins

CMC 5: 
Out - Farsight Mask, Lightning Reaver; Word of Seizing;
In - Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder (.10), Kumano, Master Yamabushi (.08), Mind's Eye (.60), Phyrexian Plaguelord (.08), Promise of Power (.10), Shriekmaw (.20):  Farsight Mask is conditional, but I can see it's use.  However, I think Mind's Eye is just better.  I also added another token producer and some more removal, as well as a fun sac outlet in the Plaguelord.

CMC 6: 
Out - Breath of Malfegor, Dragon Roost, Dreamstone Hedron, Fiery Fall, Nettlevine Blight;
In - Dread (.12), Mordant Dragon (.10), Skeletal Vampire (.25):  Had to cut down on some of the higher casting cost stuff.  Dread is an awesome beater who provides defense, and Mordant Dragon is pumpable and can double as removal.  The Vampire is another token producer.

Skeletal VampireVicious ShadowsDreadKher Keep

CMC 7: 
Out - Absorb Vis, Baneful Omen, Repay in Kind;
In - Butcher of Malakir (.10), Vicious Shadows (.10):  Butcher provides another Grave Pact effect, and Vicious Shadows is powerful and punishes blue decks that like to keep large hands.  The cards I cut were ok, but not right for this kind of deck.

CMC 8: 
Out - Scourge of Kher Ridges;
In - Insurrection (.10):  I wanted to keep going with the whole "steal and sac" theme.  I've tried playing with the Scourge in the past, and it hasn't really impressed me.

CMC 12: 
Out - It that Betrays:  I just don't see us getting to this much mana, and it will likely just clog our hand.

In - Kher Keep (.10), Springjack Pasture (.50):  More token producers.

So I added 5.47 tix worth of cards as of July 13.  I tried to push the token theme more, and added one more steal card.  I also removed some of the sacrifice effects, added some mana accel and recursion, card draw and creatures.  Let's take a look at the full decklist.


I added 10 creatures, and token producers as well.  That means we should usually get good use out of our creatures through sacrificing effects if we don't draw our creature stealers.  I only lowered the average CMC a little, to 3.84, but that's still pretty good.  The curve looks a little better as well.  Let's take a closer look at the cards in the deck:

Steal Effects
Grab the ReinsConquering ManticoreEnslaveAct of TreasonInsurrectionMark of MutinyThreatenTraitorous Instinct
Grab the Reins, Conquering Manticore, Enslave, Act of Treason, Insurrection, Mark of Mutiny, Threaten, Traitorous Instinct:  Good stuff to steal your opponents critters with.  The Manticore is a one shot, but leaves behind a big flying body.  Enslave can do a little bit of damage to your opponent.  Grab the Reins combines theft, damage and removal.  Finally, Insurrection can be a back breaking play with the huge creatures that run around in games.
Sacrifice Effects
Carnage Altar
Goblin BombardmentPhyrexian PlaguelordCarnage AltarFleshbag MarauderMagmaw
Goblin Bombardment, Phyrexian Plaguelord, Carnage Altar, Fleshbag Marauder, Magmaw:  So once you got your opponents creature and attack them with it, what do you do with the critter?  Sacifice it, of course.  Bombardment and the Plaguelord are great, because they don't require mana investments.  Looking back I may have taken out too many sacrifice effects, so if you want more, you can always add Lyzolda, the Blood Witch.
Token Producers
Rakka Mar

Goblin AssaultPawn of UlamogKher KeepSpringjack PastureEndrek Sahr, Master BreederKazuul, Tyrant of the CliffsRakka MarSkeletal Vampire
Goblin Assault, Pawn of Ulamog, Kher Keep, Springjack Pasture, Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs, Rakka Mar, Skeletal Vampire:  Tokens help with a couple different things.  In addition to giving you extra beaters, you can also use them for defense.  And there will always be a use for them.  Skeletal Vampire is a sacrifice effect as well as a token producer, so it works very well with Grave Pact.  And Kazuul will keep people from bothering you in the early game.  Goblin Assault is great because you don't have to do anything to make the tokens.  Obviously Bitterblossom would be good as well, but it costs more than the entire deck!  

Card Draw
Graveborn Muse
Ambition's CostKnollspine DragonGraveborn MuseCarnage AltarPromise of PowerMind's Eye
Ambition's CostKnollspine Dragon, Graveborn Muse, Carnage Altar, Promise of Power, Mind's Eye:  As I said earlier, drawing cards will help you overcome the weaknesses of this color combination.  Phyrexian Arena would be great as well, but i wanted to to avoid any cards that cost over a ticket.  Necrologia and Sign in Blood are other cards worth considering. 
Viashino HereticTerminateDoom BladeWrecking BallAshes to AshesDisintegrateRolling ThunderFireballShattering SpreeShriekmaw
Viashino Heretic, Terminate, Doom Blade, Wrecking Ball, Ashes to Ashes, Disintegrate, Rolling Thunder, Fireball, Shattering Spree, Shriekmaw:  So most of the removal is for creatures, but there is some for artifacts.  I wanted to make sure that most of these cards created card advantage, so some of the X spells stayed.  I liked Disintegrate because it removed the creature from the game.  In addition, you can use Grave Pact and a sac outlet with a token producer to control the board, and many of the creatures double as removal as well, such as Kumano, Flameblast Dragon and Kaervek himself.  
Mana Help
Pilgrim's Eye
Darksteel IngotPilgrim's EyeRakdos SignetJourneyer's KiteTwisted AbominationArmillary SphereExpedition MapTalisman of Indulgence
Darksteel Ingot, Pilgrim's Eye, Rakdos Signet, Journeyer's Kite, Twisted Abomination, Armillary Sphere, Expedition Map, Talisman of Indulgence:  These should help you get the colored mana that you need, as well as accelerate you out.  Expedition Map can either help with your mana or get a specialty land.  Twisted Abomination can be a good beater late game.  If you wanted to spend a little more money, Solemn Simulacrum would be good as well.

So this deck aims to control the game and board through creature removal as well as artifact removal.  In the ideal situation, you can get a token producer like Goblin Assault, a sac oulet like Carnage Altar, and Grave Pact or Butcher of Malakir into play at the same time.  That way you can make sure that no one else has any creatures on the board.  Card draw will help you out in terms of getting beaters on the board, and Nezumi Graverobber and Oversold Cemetery can help with recursion. 

Due to budget constraints, there aren't any board re-set buttons.  But if you have them, I would include Oblivion Stone, Nevinyrral's Disk or All is Dust.  These can help you get rid of problem enchantments as well as help you out when you are behind.  Damnation and Decree of Pain would be helpful as well on the creature front, and the Decree also helps with draw.

The deck doesn't rely on Kaervek, but he is definitely helpful.  Lightning Greaves is another card for consideration, as it gives your beaters haste, and Kaervek really appreciates the shroud aspect.  In addition, the deck could use some help with the mana base.

Well, did the changes help?  There's only one way to find out.

III.  The Game:  Fight!

Let's look at our opponents:

Karona, False GodUril, the MiststalkerAgrus Kos, Wojek Veteran 

Karona decks I've seen usually run a bunch of allies and changelings, or at least some sort of 5 color tribal deck.  Everyone knows what to expect from Uril, the question is really whether the Uril deck has a back up plan in case Uril is tucked via Hallowed Burial.  I haven't seen an Agrus Kos deck before, so I'm excited to see what will come out of him.  Karona wins the roll and chooses to go first.  Here's my opening hand:
Three lands and an accelerator.  I keep.  As usual, K = Karona, False God, U = Uril, the Miststalker, and A = Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran.
Round 1
K: Drowned Catacomb.
U: Jungle Shrine.
Me: Draw Reiterate, play Terramorphic Expanse, crack it for a Swamp.
A: Plains.
Round 2
K: Plains, Shapesharer.
U: Raging Ravine.
Me: Draw Ashling the Pilgrim.  Play Mountain, Ashling.
A: Plains.
Round 3
K: Plains, Amoeboid Changeling.  K now has the ability to kill Ashling, since she's a legend, so I'm going to leave him alone right now.
U: Forest.
Me: Draw Knollspine Dragon. Play Mountain, attack U with Ashling (39), as he is probably going to be the biggest threat on the table.  Although 1 point is probably not going to make much of a difference. Play Darksteel Ingot.
A: Halimar Depths.  This is an interesting move that I never considered, playing off-color specialty lands.  I guess it could come in handy, but I would be ticked off the first time it led to color screw.
Round 4
K: Nothing.
U: Selesnya Sanctuary, bouncing Forest. Discards Forest at end of turn to drop to 7 cards.  He's going to regret this later.
Me: Draw Terminate. Attack A with Ashling (39).  I decide not to pump, as I want to hold back Terminate just in case.
A: Duergar Mine-Captain. Then plays Gruul Turf, bouncing Halimar Depths.
Round 5
K: Glacial Fortress.
U: Forest, then Uril. I pump Ashling twice.
Me: Draw Flameblast Dragon. Attack U with Ashling, on the off chance that he blocks.  He doesn’t block. I pump Ashling once, and he drops to (35).
A: Glory of Warfare, then Halimar Depths for the second time.
Round 6
K: Vivid Marsh.
U: Lifelink and Scourge of the Nobilis on Uril. 
Scourge of the Nobilis
Uril is now 11/11, double lifelinking (although this doesn't do anything special anymore) firebreather. Attacks me (29), and he goes up to (46). At this point, I contact K and say we should work together to keep Uril from getting out of control, and he agrees.
Me: Draw a Swamp and play it. I attack U with Ashling, knocking him down to (42). I then play Promise of Power, getting a 6/6 flying demon.
A: Kor Skyfisher, bouncing Halimar Depths, plays it again for the third time. Attacks U with Duergar Mine-Captain, then has the Miner pump himself (37).
Round 7
K: Plays Brood Sliver, and attacks U with his changelings (35), getting 2 slivers.
U: Casts Three Dreams, searching up Rancor, Unquestioned Authority and Shield of the Oversoul. No attack.  He's obviously waiting until he can enchant Uril more.  Discards Totem-Guide Hartebeest to get to 7 cards at end of turn.
That’s really bad for me.  If he puts Unquestioned Authority on Uril and attacks me, I'm done.  I ask K if he has any answers, and he says he does.
Me: Draw Mark of Mutiny. Attack U with my demon (29). 
A: Plains, then Agrus Kos. Attacks U with Kor Skyfisher (25).  Seems like A knows who the biggest threat on the table is as well.
Round 8
K:  Dragonskull Summit. Attacks U with his team. Uril blocks Brood Sliver. When it’s all done, U goes up to (32). Then K casts Day of Judgment. Yay!. Afterward K admits he shouldn’t have attacked, as it ended up netting U life. 
U: Brion Stoutarm. Then he attempts to put Rancor on Brion, but I Terminate him.
Me: Draw Graveborn Muse and play it.
A: Evolving Wilds sac’ing it for a Plains. Intrepid Hero.
Intrepid Hero
Worked hard this game.
Round 9
K: Mountain, Fire-Belly Changeling. Then Hagra Diabolist, hitting U (30).
U: Loxodon Hierarch (34). U appears to be having land problems.
Me: Draw Springjack Pasture with Muse (28) and Mountain. Play the Pasture, then Conquering Manticore, stealing the Hierarch. I attack U with the Muse and Hierarch (27).
A: Traitorous Instinct on my Manticore. I figure he’s going to pound U some more, but he surprises me, attacking K (31)
Round 10
K: Vivid Creek, then Anger. Attacks U with the team and pumps the Changeling, dropping U to (20).
U: Tries to cast Shield of the Oversoul on the Hierarch, but A uses Intrepid Hero to kill it in response. Still no land.
Me: Draw Traitorous Instinct (27) and Threaten. Play Mountain. Attack U with Manticore and Muse (12). Then cast Flameblast Dragon.
A: Kjeldoran Outpost, and makes a soldier. Then Lord of Shatterskull Pass.
Round 11
K: Misty Rainforest. Cracks it (30) for Forest. Scapeshift, sac’ing five lands for Miren, the Moaning Well, Reliquary Tower, Exotic Orchard, Vivid Grove and VesuvaVesuva copies Gruul Turf, bouncing Reliquary Tower. Attacks U with his team (4). A kills my dragon with Intrepid Hero.
U: Forest, then Oblivion Ring on my Manticore.
Me: Draw Expedition Map (26) and Mountain. Play the Mountain, then Threaten Lord of Shatterskull Pass. I attack A with his Lord (36) and U with the Muse (1). I then cast Magma Phoenix.   
A: Adds a level counter to the Lord, his base stats 6/6, but it is 8/6 right now with Glory of Warfare out. Attacks U with the soldier, taking him out, and K with the Lord (22).
Round 12
K: Plays Reliquary Tower, then sac’s Anger to Miren (24). However, he doesn’t have a Mountain anymore due to Scapeshift. Then Changeling TitanHagra Diabolist triggers, but K stacks his triggers so that he champions the Fire-Belly Changeling first, then hits A (34). Attacks A with Diabolist, who makes a Soldier to block.
Me: Draw Mountain (26) and Molten Slagheap. Play Mountain, then Mark of Mutiny on Lord of Shatterskull Pass. Attack A with my team, but he Condemns my Phoenix (28) and drops to (24). At the end of my turn, uses Intrepid Hero to kill Changeling TitanFire-Belly Changeling returns, triggering Diabolist and hitting A to (22).
A: Bojuka Bog, taking out K’s graveyard, which is bigger than mine and has Anger. Casts Agrus Kos for the second time. Attacks me with the Lord and K with his soldier token. I make a goat token with Springjack Pasture to block, and K drops to (21).
Round 13
K: Bonesplitter
Me: Draw Vicious Shadows (27) and Swamp. Play Swamp, then Traitorous Instinct on the Lord. I attack A with his Lord, but he kills it with Intrepid Hero. Then play Expedition Map.
A: Plains, Veteran Swordsmith. Attacks me with Agrus and K with his Soldier token. I make a goat and block Agrus, and K blocks the Soldier with Hagra Diabolist, killing both. A tries to kill Bonesplitter with Intrepid Hero, but K sacs the sliver to Miren (23).
Round 14
K: Nothing.
Me:  Draw Deathbringer Thoctar (26) and Armillary Sphere. Play Molten Slagheap, then the Thoctar. A makes a soldier token.
A: Armillary Sphere, then sacs it for 2 Mountains. Plays a Mountain, then attacks me with everyone except the Intrepid Hero, which he sends at K. I make a goat and block Agrus, while Fire-Belly Changeling blocks the Hero, killing both. I drop to (17) and the Thoctar gets 3 counters. 
Round 15
K: Bringer of the Green Dawn.
Me: Draw Mind's Eye (16) and Mountain. Play Mountain, then Vicious Shadows. I attack A with the Thoctar, but he makes a soldier, which blocks and dies giving the Thoctar another counter. Shadows triggers, and I hit A for 4 (18). A then casts Shattering Pulse without buyback, taking out my Expedition Map.
A: Mountain. At the end of his first main phase, I start taking counters off the Thoctar to kill Argus. I let him respond, but mis-click and he returns to his main phase, where he casts Planar Cleansing
Planar Cleansing
I should have waited until the beginning of the attack phase, but whatever. When the dust settles, I’ve knocked A down to (5) with Vicious Shadows triggers and removing counters from Deathbringer Thoctar. A then casts Goblin Trenches, and sacs Bojuka Bog for 2 goblins.  
Round 16
K: Casts Terastodon, taking out Goblin Trenches and one of K’s lands only. 
Me: Draw Akoum Refuge and play it (16). I then cast Kaervek.
A: Mountain.
Round 17
K: Sea Gate Oracle. Kaervek triggers, and I use the 5 damage to kill A. K attacks me with Terastodon and his elephant token. I make a goat and block the Terastodon, dropping to (13). I wanted to protect Kaervek, so I don't block the elephant token.
Me: Draw Act of Treason. Play Goblin Bombardment, then attempt to cast Act of Treason on the Terastodon, but he sac’s it to Miren (32). I attack with Kaervek (27). I then cast Knollspine Dragon, dumping my hand and drawing the following 5
I play the Mountain.
Round 18
K: Kabira Evangel. I use Kaervek to kill Sea Gate Oracle, which draws a card before it dies. Grim Tutor (24), and I use Kaervek to kill the Evangel.
Me: Draw Rakka Mar. Cast Nekrataal, killing his elephant token. Attack with my Dragon and Kaervek (12). Cast Withered Wretch
Round 19
K: Nothing.
Me: Attack with my team. He tries to Condemn Kaervek, but I sac it to Goblin Bombardment. It doesn't matter, as I have enough, and K dies.

IV.  Conclusion

So obviously in this game a couple things that went right.  I approached K at the right time, and he saved me from getting taken out early with a well timed Day of Judgment.  Then U didn't draw much more land, and everyone ganged up on him.  But that's what happens when you play Uril.

So I got 4 more games in with this deck, and won 2 of them.  In one of the winning games I managed to control the board with Grave Pact and Goblin Assault, and just steamrolled people.  In the other winning game, I teamed up with another player just like in this game.  So 3 out of 5 games with this deck isn't bad.

I think this is a deck where, due to it's weaknesses, it is advantageous to try and team up with someone, especially if  there is a powerhouse general out there like Uril or Sharuum.  Or else, you can spend the money for more sweepers, like I mentioned previously.  I would probably also try and get a few more tutors in the deck as well, so that you can find your answers when you need them.  In addition, Blood Crypt, Graven Cairns, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers are all worth inclusion to help out the mana base.

Since I started working on this, I know that Shard has been making his own changes to the deck.  Hopefully he can use some of these suggestions, and you can pick up a cheap Commander deck that can have fun and win occasionally!  If you guys want me to keep doing these deck doctor columns, let me know, and I will put out a call at another time.  Or you can just email me your lists at mrmorale32 at yahoo.com, and you can also post the list in the comments if you want.

Until next time, when I use Rith, the Awakener to pump out lots of saprolings!

Leviathan, aka Tarasco on MTGO


I posted a Rith deck in the by Paul Leicht at Wed, 07/14/2010 - 03:55
Paul Leicht's picture

I posted a Rith deck in the CCC threads for commander based on token production and while Joe Hill commented on it privately none of the participants made note of it publicly. In fact it seemed like aside from Tempesteye and Kenshin the others didn't pay any attention to the threads at all. Anyway I decided to pull it out and revise it sans the token theme I ran then and post it for you to compare with your own. Feel free to include it and critique it if you like.

1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Stomping Ground
6 Forest
1 Graypelt Refuge
8 Plains
1 False Defeat
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Kabira Crossroads
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Harmonic Sliver
4 Mountain
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Hymn of Rebirth
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Acidic Slime
1 Planar Guide
1 Wrath of God
1 Condemn
1 Reveillark
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Vivid Crag
1 Otherworldly Journey
1 Desolation Giant
1 Vivid Grove
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Ancient Amphitheater
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Llanowar Reborn
1 Ivy Elemental
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Naya Charm
1 Splinter Twin
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Krosan Verge
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Scute Mob
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Mammoth Umbra
1 Decree of Justice
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Boros Garrison
1 Firewild Borderpost
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 All Suns' Dawn
1 Primal Command
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Behemoth Sledge
1 Totem-Guide Hartebeest
1 Loam Lion
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Miraculous Recovery
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Path to Exile
1 Martial Coup
1 Wildfield Borderpost
1 Eternal Witness
1 Civic Wayfinder
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Rith, the Awakener
1 Corrupt Eunuchs
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Emeria Angel
1 Kird Ape
1 Temple Garden
1 Khalni Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Gruul Turf
1 Mystic Enforcer
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Vithian Renegades
1 Naya Panorama
1 Knight of the White Orchid

I will note that given the money there are some cards I would definitely include (dual lands not withstanding) such as Karmic Guide and Tarmogoyf. Also Knight of the Reliquary and probably Uril too even though Rith is the commander.

I am liking Phyrexian by Mr Littlejeans at Wed, 07/14/2010 - 10:54
Mr Littlejeans's picture

I am liking Phyrexian Reclamation ($0.15) over Oversold Cemetery in my builds now ... 2 life is hardly anything to get to do away with Cemetery's restrictions.

... also, Skullclamp ($0.65) definitely belongs in a deck with tokens/sac effects.

@ Paul ... it looks like you are going an aggro route here ... which is an uphill battle

for me ... drawing a Loam Lion or Kird Ape on like turn 8 would feel horrible ... they just don't do enough ... this is why even Tarmpgoyf is viewd as sub-par in EDH ... just a dude with no special abilities.

I would suggest adding guys with "troll-shroud" and having more of a build a monster type deck, where you load them up with equipment and enchants with totem armor ... more of a Kor Spirit Dancer theme'D deck ... also ... you too need more Skullclamp :)

Yeah that is probably true by Paul Leicht at Wed, 07/14/2010 - 15:28
Paul Leicht's picture

Yeah that is probably true though I was thinking of it is as a deck with road blocks rather than a beat my ops senseless on turn 2. Each of the creatures I went with are fairly tough and to be honest I really wanted other 1 drops but my collection is still at that point where I don't always have the appropriate card. Skullclamp was in the token generator version. I took it out because I wasn't playing as much weenies. As far as build your own aka Voltron (cf chimeras), sometimes I do bring decks like that but this was really meant as a contrast to the Rith deck I expect Mike to bring. I left some holes for him to fill but mainly just wanted to see his response to this different type of deck.

Very nice man. I do like by ShardFenix at Wed, 07/14/2010 - 12:07
ShardFenix's picture

Very nice man. I do like some of the cards you picked out. Definitely some new things to consider. Though I did pick up Damnation and Earthquake and Decree of Pain. Having those certaibly helps. Maybe an O-stone for enchantments is my next choice.

glad you liked the deck. by Leviathan at Wed, 07/14/2010 - 17:02
Leviathan's picture

glad you liked the deck. Oblivion stone is definitely worthwhile. If you go with this token version I would also add skullclamo. Can't believe I missed that one. Also as jeans pointed out reclamation is better than the cemetery so I would make that switch as well.

Paul- interesting deck. I'm on my phone right now so I will try more detailed later. Dragonmaster outcast is a one drop to consider but loam lion and the ape and nacatl can be better. Interestingly recursion theme also. But you lack grave hate for opponents so that may be an issue. Like you said I'm going with tokens so the decks are going to be different. But dragon broodmother is worth a look.

rith by burn3000 at Wed, 07/14/2010 - 22:15
burn3000's picture

glad to see to you're doing a rith based on my recommendation. I'm SO excited! I think all those tri-dragons are worth making decks for..3 colors decks are most fun!

Agreed, im thinking of making by ShardFenix at Wed, 07/14/2010 - 23:33
ShardFenix's picture

Agreed, im thinking of making a deck around Darigaaz or Karrthus.

Darigaaz would be another by burn3000 at Thu, 07/15/2010 - 02:26
burn3000's picture

Darigaaz would be another pick as well..jund colors are great and his ability is sick.

I'd like to see an Atog deck by Flippers_Giraffe at Sun, 07/18/2010 - 03:43
Flippers_Giraffe's picture

I'd like to see an Atog deck with Atogatog as the commander, its something I've not got round to trying yet.

Nice deck, but you should let by Dio at Sun, 01/02/2011 - 16:21
Dio's picture

Nice deck, but you should let the Argus player know that you can't have cards with mana symbols on them that are outside of your general's colors. Since Halamar Depths produces U and Bojuka Bog produces B, they can't be played in a red white deck.

From the official rules http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php:
"An Example of what cards are/aren't allowed in a three colour deck.
Our Phelddagrif couldn't use any of these lands:

* Underground River (Obvious, see above)
* Godless Shrine
* Badlands
* Leechridden Swamp, etc) "

So no, you shouldn't play off color producing lands.

It helps to look at dates by Paul Leicht at Mon, 01/03/2011 - 01:22
Paul Leicht's picture

It helps to look at dates before commenting on time sensitive things like new rules. Commander has recently been folded into the edh rules and the format name has been officially called Commander. But this article was written about 6 months ago, long before these changes.

Additionally there is no indication that the client is supporting these changes yet.

It helps to know the format by Dio at Mon, 01/03/2011 - 06:38
Dio's picture

It helps to know the format before commenting. This rule was in effect way before the color identity rule or even WotC announcing the commander precons.

At the time this article was by Leviathan at Tue, 01/04/2011 - 01:24
Leviathan's picture

At the time this article was written, the rules for online Commander and EDH did not completely sync up. I mention this in more detail in my Brion Stoutarm article, but essentially in online Commander you are allowed to have cards in your deck with activated abilities and mana symbols that do not match your general. As such, you can play Bringers in a mono-colored deck and Bojuka Bog in any deck.

Before there was official support from WOTC for Commander it was programmed by guys in their spare time. As such, they did not have the time to program the necessary restrictions. Even now you can have Bojuka Bog in any deck. However, as it is officially supported now, I expect it will be fixed shortly. But until then, you will still see people playing bounce lands in their mono colored decks.

Oh I see the source of your by Paul Leicht at Tue, 01/04/2011 - 03:32
Paul Leicht's picture

Oh I see the source of your confusion. You think commander online as it is now follows EDH rules which it does not. It has a proximate rules set but there are differences. Recently the command zone was programmed. Before that the commander death rules were very different from EDH for example. I expect the color identity rules (as they have recently been coined by WotC) will hopefully as Leviathan says be coded soon too.