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By: Leviathan, Mike Morales
Oct 28 2010 2:25am
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The Izzet guild is goofy.  With their representative colors, they seem to be comprised of polar opposites, only more so than the Boros guild.  Blue brings calculated knowledge accumulation, while Red brings reckless aggression.  Based upon what I've seen from the cards in Ravnica, Wizards tried to portray the guild members almost as mad scientists.  Which is cool and all but doesn't really fit into my idea of what Magic is all about.  Of course, my idea of Magic doesn't include giant mechs launching missiles, but they have done that too.  

There are only three possible generals in this color combination.  Jhoira is popular, but has power level issues (too high) and will make you an instant target.  Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is a pretty decent commander but is really popular as well.  Plus, people are often wary of the instant win combo with Curiosity.  What I really wanted to do was use another unusual commander so I picked Tibor and Lumia.  Now, I've always assumed these two are siblings, and they seem like a pretty powerful duo.

Sort of like these two.  Except not quite as powerful.

They seemed interesting at least, and not overly powerful and as a result, they can fly under the radar for a while.  The color combination also has weaknesses to enchantments and planeswalkers, so I am going to try and work around that.  Let's see what I come up with.



Let's look at the dynamic duo:

Seriously, that's an action shot.  This couple has 2 interesting abilities.  First, if you play a Blue spell, they can give any creature flying.  This is helpful in giving large creatures you control a form of evasion if needed.  It also coincides well with the second ability.  If you cast a Red spell, the duo deal 1 damage to each creature without flying.  This is pretty useful, as you can strap some equipment on them that gives deathtouch, and wipe out every groundpounder on the field.  I figured that this was a pretty cool ability, and this would be the theme of the deck.

However, if Tibor and Lumia don't have flying and you cast a Red spell while they are equipped with Basilisk Collar, they will kill themselves.  The easiest way to deal with this problem is to play with a lot of multi-colored spells and use the stack to give them flying before they deal their damage.  Unfortunately, a lot of the spells that are both Red and Blue are pretty horrible.

leap of flameunnerving assaultsquee's revengestitch in time
Not up to par. 

There are some Red/Blue creatures that are interesting as well, but didn't fit the theme I was going for.  They are unusual enough that they require a little bit of extra work to be effective, but they would give you some style points for using them.  If I make another Izzet deck at some point in the future they may have a place there, but they just won't do well here.

dracoplasmdominus of fealtyizzet guildmageemberwilde caliph
Cool, but not quite.

However, there is one card that is crap in most decks, but does well in here.  This card essentially solves our problems of killing off our Commander as well as splash damage that would kill any of our non-flying creatures.  Here it is:


This is typically a sub-par card, but it works well in this deck.  With Levitation, you don't have to worry about giving you General flying, as well as any of your other groundpounders.  Pretty sweet.  If you don't draw Levitation, you can also make sure that you don't destroy your own creatures by making sure that they have flying as one of their own intrinsic abilities.  This should not be a problem in these colors, as Red brings dragons and Blue specializes in large flyers.  Anyway, enough talking, let's take a look at the deck:

Tibor and Lumia
A Commander Deck
1 Arcbound Reclaimer
1 Draining Whelk
1 Duplicant
1 Flameblast Dragon
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Knollspine Dragon
1 Mulldrifter
1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
1 Nucklavee
1 Roil Elemental
1 Ryusei, the Falling Star
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sphinx of Magosi
1 Tibor and Lumia 
21 cards

Other Spells
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Crystal Shard
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Gorgon Flail
1 Izzet Signet
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Quietus Spike
1 Scythe of the Wretched
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Kaldra 
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Future Sight
1 Levitation
1 Mystic Remora
1 Capsize
1 Comet Storm
1 Desertion
1 Evacuation
1 Mana Drain
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Reiterate
1 Suffocating Blast
1 Swerve
1 Turnabout
1 Twincast
1 All Is Dust
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Bribery
1 Call to Mind
1 Earthquake
1 Fabricate
1 Gamble
1 Recurring Insight
1 Rite Of Replication
1 Surreal Memoir
1 Windfall 
40 cards
1 Academy Ruins
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Great Furnace
1 Halimar Depths
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Shivan Reef
12 Snow-Covered Island
6 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Creek
39 cards

prophetic bolt


Let's break down the cards by category:

Weapons of War  
basilisk collar

gorgon flailloxodon warhammerbasilisk collarquietus spikescythe of the wretchedsword of fire and icesword of kaldra
Gorgon Flail, Loxodon Warhammer, Basilisk CollarQuietus Spike, Scythe of the Wretched, Sword of Fire and Ice, Sword of Kaldra:  Obviously these are meant to be put onto T&L, but they generally do well on any creature.  However, you have to be a little bit careful when you put a deathtouch equipment on T&L, because if you play a Red spell next, T&L will likely not have flying and you will end up killing them.  Now, you can always re-cast them later, but that's pretty annoying. 

Sword of Fire and Ice gives T&L protection from themselves, so you don't have to worry about playing things out of order.  And Scythe of the Wretched doubles up with the deathtouch equipment to steal every creature in play.  I never got it to work, but I know it will one day.  Warhammer on T&L just leads to lots of life gain, especially if there are a lot of creatures on the board.

suffocating blast Draining WhelkGlen Elendra ArchmageDesertionMana DrainSuffocating BlastSwerve:
Draining Whelk, Glen Elendra Archmage, Desertion, Mana Drain, Suffocating Blast, Swerve:  I think this is the highest amount of counters I have ever played with.  The creatures work well with Crystal Shard for multiple uses.  Mana Drain is just good acceleration, and I often blow it early just for the extra mana.  Suffocating Blast and Swerve are both decent counters that work well with your general.
Card Draw  
niv-mizzet, the firemind Knollspine DragonMulldrifterNiv-Mizzet, the FiremindSphinx of MagosiSword of Fire and IceFuture SightMystic RemoraRecurring InsightWindfall 
Knollspine Dragon, Mulldrifter, Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, Sphinx of Magosi, Sword of Fire and Ice, Future Sight, Mystic Remora, Recurring Insight, Windfall:  What's a deck that uses Blue without card draw?  There are some of the typical favorites in here.  Niv-Mizzet works well due to his colors.  As a matter of fact, if you get tired of T&L, you can use the big dragon as your general instead.  He works almost as well with all the equipment that grants deathtouch, and can do a good job of keeping the board clear of opposing threats. 

Arcbound ReclaimerIzzet ChronarchNucklaveeCall to MindSurreal Memoiracademy ruins 
Arcbound Reclaimer, Izzet Chronarch, Nucklavee, Call to Mind, Surreal MemoirAcademy Ruins:  There are going to be plenty of times when you will want to re-use your spells, especially your equipment.  Arcbound Reclaimer and Academy Ruins both make it so that you can get some of your good stuff out of the 'yard.  The Chronarch and Nucklavee are also good forms of recursion that play well with T&L and Crystal Shard.

The one card that has slightly underperformed here is Surreal Memoir.  There aren't a huge number of instants in this deck so there isn't always a target for this card.  In addition, most of the instants are situational and can't be immediately cast, so that you can get it immediately in graveyard for when Memoir rebounds.  I guess this is a cuttable card. 


Hoarding DragonGodo, Bandit WarlordTezzeret the SeekerFabricateGamble 
Hoarding Dragon, Godo, Bandit Warlord, Tezzeret the Seeker, Fabricate, Gamble:  You are going to want to access your equipment fairly quickly, and each of these cards provides ways to get what you're looking for.  Gamble works well when you have a full grip of cards and are looking for something specific, such as Levitation.  Godo is another card that works with Crystal Shard.

Hoarding Dragon has done its job very well in this deck.  However, another sac outlet like Diamond Valley may help to ensure that it dies instead of getting removed from the game to a Swords to Plowshares

There are a few other interesting cards here, such as Prophetic Bolt, which fits the deck theme and digs for cards, and Twincast, which is just an all around useful card.  Obviously you want to take advantage of your Commander's damaging ability to clear the board, and use control to win the game.  The one card that I really wanted to play, but couldn't currently due to availability, is this:

This would be awesome but Mercadian Masques isn't online yet.  It would basically be a Scythe of the Wretched that didn't require you to actually kill the creatures.  You wouldn't need any extra equipment, just this card and red spells.  You would be able to steal everyone's creatures that had a toughness greater than one, which isn't a bad thing.  Essentially every one of your Red spells would become an Insurrection!  That sounds pretty sweet.  Unfortunately, we just have to wait until Mercadian Masques comes out for this one.  One of the few good things to come out of that block.

Other than that, the deck is comprised of the usual control deck stuff that occurs in these colors.  Card draw, some recursion, some board control.  The deck can have a little bit of a hard time with fliers, but you can usually just use your own fliers as defense if you need it.  The deck also leans toward Blue, so sometimes you will be searching for Red spells to activate Tibor and Lumia.  But for the most part, you should do all right.

As previously mentioned, if you wanted you could easily transform this to a Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind deck.  Niv's ability works well with all of the deathtouch equipment, and it would be a different take on the general than all the card draw a typically Niv deck uses.  I would probably try to squeeze Memory Jar in there somewhere though.  Just an idea for switching things up.



I actually played this game a day or two after Scars of Mirrodin came out, so this was the first time I had seen a bunch of these cards in action.  Here are my opponents for this game.

Azusa, Lost but seekingKarn, silver golemGhost Council of orzhova

As you can imagine, Azusa is a mana ramp deck that draws a bunch of cards, plays a lot of land, and brings out big threats.  Karn is an artifact based deck that can sometimes be combo oriented, but many times is not.  The combo I am specifically thinking of is basically turning all your lands into artifact creatures with power and toughness becoming their casting cost.  Don't remember exactly how it's pulled off, but I have seen it more than once, and hopefully he won't pull it off this time.  Ghost Council usually uses blink effects with some token and reanimation.  Azusa wins the roll.  Here is my opening  hand:

Godo, Bandit WarlordMiren, the Moaning WellSnow-Covered MountainTezzeret the SeekerCrystal ShardMouth of RonomSpinerock Knoll
Godo, Bandit Warlord, Miren, the Moaning Well, Snow-Covered Mountain, Tezzeret the Seeker, Crystal Shard, Mouth of Ronom, Spinerock Knoll 

A good amount of land, so I keep, even without a Blue mana source.  As usual, A=Azusa, Lost But Seeking, K=Karn, Silver Golem and G=Ghost Council of Orzhova.  Let's get to the action!
Round 1
A: Forest, Sol Ring.
K: Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Sol Ring, Mox Opal.
G: Plains.
Me: Draw Minamo, School at Water's Edge. Play Spinerock Knoll, seeing Scalding Tarn, Mountain, Reiterate and Kiki-Jiki. I put Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker under the Knoll.
Round 2
A: Plays Azusa. Then Forest, Ghost Quarter, and Miren, the Moaning Well. Then Temple Bell.
K: Swamp, then Cloud Key, naming Artifacts. There’s a whole lot of ramping going on here, and I am definitely envious.
G: Plains.
Me: Draw Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind. Play Minamo, School at Water's Edge.
Round 3
A: Forest, Deserted Temple, Erratic Portal.
Portal bounce Azusa, then replay her so you get to play an additional 2 lands.  Or for bouncing and replaying Emrakul.
K: Swamp, Gilded Lotus. Then Lux Cannon, putting a counter on it.
G: Plains, Pilgrim's Eye, searching up a Swamp.
Me: Draw Basilisk Collar. Play a Mountain, then the Collar. A uses the Temple Bell at the end of my turn, and I draw an Island. After 3 turns, things look like this:
I'm obviously way behind, along with G.  That’s not good. 
Round 4
A: Uses Temple Bell, and I draw Levitation. Drops 2 Forests and Mosswort Bridge
K: Swamp, Platinum Emperion. That's a big golem!  Puts another counter on the Cannon.
G: Swamp, Calciderm. Discards Endrek Sahr at end of turn to get to 7 cards in hand.
Me: Draw Mountain, play Island. I then play Levitation. A sacs his Ghost Quarter targeting one of his own Forests, admitting afterward it was a mistake.  I think he was trying to search up a non-basic land.
Round 5
A: Uses Temple Bell, and I draw an Island. Plays 2 Forests then Duplicant, targeting the Emperion. Then plays Font of Mythos
font of mythos
Massive card drawing for everyone!
K uses Mikokoro, and I draw another Island.
K: Reliquary Tower, then puts another counter on the Cannon. Then uses Mikokoro, and I draw Roil Elemental. Plays Darksteel Ingot.
G: Tainted Field. Attacks A with the Eye (39) and K with the Calciderm (35). Then plays Damnation, and A bounces Azusa with Erratic Portal in response. G has to discard Winding Canyons, Sign in Blood, Captain of the Watch and Skeletal Vampire to get to 7 in hand at the end of his turn.
Me: Draw Gorgon Flail, Surreal Memoir and Capsize. I now have 13 cards in hand, and want to get mana so I can play more cards in the future. Play Island, then Tezzeret the Seeker, searching up Sol Ring. I have to discard Surreal Memoir, Mountain, Gorgon Flail and Mouth of Ronom to get to 7.
Round 6
A: Plays Oracle of Mul Daya, revealing Sylvan Library. Then uses Temple Bell, revealing Crucible of Worlds. I draw Reiterate. Plays Mikokoro, taking out K’s Mikokoro with the legend rule. Then Azusa and 2 more Forests, followed by Sylvan Library
K: Uses Lux Cannon to destroy A’s Erratic PortalTemple of the False God, then Vedalken Orrery
G: Swamp, then Necromancer's Covenant.  While it’s a cool card, I’m pretty sure he meant to cast Identity Crisis, since no one has a graveyard of note other than G. G has to exile the 5 creatures in his own graveyard, making 5 zombies. Discards Big Game Hunter and a Swamp to get to 7.
Me: Draw Great Furnace, Desertion and Ryusei, the Falling Star. Play Island, then search up Seat of the Synod with Tezzeret. Play Tibor and Lumia, hoping that I can equip them next turn with Basilisk Collar and play a red spell to slow down A. I also play Crystal Shard. Discard Desertion and Miren, the Moaning Well.
Round 7
A: Pays 4 life to Sylvan Library to draw 2 extra cards (35).  Uses Temple Bell, drawing Expedition Map while I get a Mountain. Plays SDT and Tectonic Edge. Plays Expedition Map, cracking it for Eye of Ugin.
eye of ugin 
Uh Oh.
Plays the Eye and a Forest, then Crucible of Worlds. At the end of turn, K plays Nim Deathmantle and Blinkmoth Urn, which is going to give him a ton of mana.
K: Petrified Field. Then All is Dust, wiping out a bunch of stuff, but obviously none of his. Puts a counter on the Cannon.
G: Plays Emeria, the Sky Ruin, then Identity Crisis, targeting K. In response, K plays Mycosynth Golem (which pretty much lets him dump his hand), Platinum Angel, Duplicant which doesn't imprint anything, and discards the rest of his hand, which is lands. G discards Necrotic Sliver and Galepowder Mage to get to 7.
Me: Draw Shivan Reef, Keiga, the Tide Star and Island. Blinkmoth Urn actually gives me 4 mana, which is helpful. I play Mountain (should have played Great Furnace), then Tibor and Lumia and Keiga, the Tide Star. I discard Reiterate and Shivan Reef and A searches up Emrakul, the Aeons Torn with Eye of Ugin.  This is very bad news.
Round 8
A: Plays Mox Diamond and Mystifying Maze. He also has 5 mana from Blinkmoth Urn. So he has 24 total mana at this point, which isn't good for the rest of the table.  He plays Everflowing Chalice kicked 9 times, then Sylvan Scrying for Gaea’s Cradle before playing Emrakul. With his next turn he can attack someone, sac Emrakul to Miren, the Moaning Well, search it up with Eye of Ugin and cast it again. A realizes that he has pretty much locked the game up, and concedes to let the rest of us play it out for second place. 
Aside:  This is a good way to go out.  A knows that he has the game locked up, and we have nothing that could stop him.  He doesn't have to go through the motions, it is his game.  Conceding when there is no way for you to lose is the best way to end things, especially when you can combo out and win the game but it would take a pretty long time to do so.  Might as well let the other people have fun with the game.  If you are in this situation, please do the right thing and concede.  Commander is a casual game, after all, and you gain nothing by making people sit there while you click a bunch of buttons.  You get the satisfaction of a win while making everyone else happy as well.

Not quite, but pretty close.
At the end of A's turn, K plays Eternity Vessel and Karn.
eternity vessel
Can be annoying to play against.
K: Only has 1 card in hand now. Puts a counter on the Cannon and equips Karn with Nim Deathmantle, and attacks me with him (34).  The Deathmantle gives intimidate, so I'm going to have hard time blocking. 
G: Bojuka Bog, taking out my graveyard. Deathbringer Liege.
Me: Draw an Island, then play it. Equip Tibor and Lumia with Basilisk Collar, then cast Niv-Mizzet, which should wipe the board of everything else except Platinum Angel, and gains me some life (38). However, I forgot about Nim Deathmantle, and as it triggers for each creature and he has enough mana, K is able to bring back Mycosynth Golem and Duplicant, which targets Keiga. I bounce Keiga with Crystal Shard in response. I then replay Keiga and forget to attack. At the end of my turn K plays Copper Gnomes and Karn.
Round 9
K: Puts a counter on the Cannon. Equips Karn with Nim Deathmantle, and attacks me with him (32). Attacks G with Mycosynth Golem, Duplicant and Platinum Angel (30).  So obviously K's plan is to kill me with General damage (he's halfway there) and G with regular damage.
G: Plays Decree of Pain. K uses Karn to turn my Crystal Shard and Basilisk Collar into creatures in response. K then brings back all his guys except Karn and the Gnomes with the Deathmantle. G plays a Swamp then discards 8 cards to get to 7.
Me: Draw Twincast. Play Roil Elemental, then Great Furnace, stealing K’s Platinum Angel. I then play Ryusei, the Falling Star. At the end of my turn K plays Karn and Triskelion and uses it to kill my Roil Elemental, getting his Angel back.
Round 10
K: Equips Karn with the Deathmantle and attacks me with him (26), while attacking G with everything else (18). I have now taken 18 Commander damage from Karn. I also activate Spinerock Knoll, getting Kiki-Jiki into play for free. 
G: Plains, then Altar's Light targeting Nim Deathmantle, to hopefully stop his recursion shenanigans. In response, K blows up Deathmantle with the Lux Cannon so it won’t be removed from the game. Then G plays Sunblast Angel, wiping out K’s army. 
This is a really good card.
Now all we have to worry about is K's Eternity Vessel.
Me: Draw Sword of Kaldra. Play Island, then the Sword. I equip Ryusei with the Sword and attack K (25). I then cast Capsize with buyback, bouncing the Eternity Vessel.
Round 11
K: Replays Eternity Vessel and puts a counter on the Cannon.
G: Plays Puppeteer Clique, getting K’s Duplicant from his graveyard, which targets Ryusei, removing him from the game.  Sad times. Then Nekrataal, taking out Kiki-Jiki, leaving me with no creatures. Attacks me with Sunblast Angel (22) and K with Duplicant (20). Duplicant is exiled at the end of turn.
Me: Draw Bribery. I cast it after playing an Island, targeting G, since K said earlier that he doesn’t play Eldrazi. G has some good stuff, like Skithiryx and Pestilence Demon, but they require black mana to take full advantage of them. I pull Angel of Despair, and use it to take out K’s Vedalken Orrery. In response K plays Gate to the Aether. I also had Twincast in hand, and probably should have used it to copy the Bribery, but oh well. I then play Godo, Bandit Warlord, searching up Sword of Fire and Ice.
Round 12
K: Gates in SDT. Then plays Tower of Fortunes and uses it to draw 4. Plays Deserted Temple, which brings him back up to (25) due to Eternity Vessel. Finally, plays Palladium Myr.
G: Gate reveals Shattered Crypt. Casts Divinity of Pride and Whispersilk Cloak, equipping the avatar. Before his attack I cast Capsize (with buyback) K’s Eternity Vessel, but G doesn’t take the bait, and doesn't attack.
Me: I Gate in Mystic Remora and draw Gamble. Equip the Angel with Sword of Kaldra and Godo with Sword of Fire and Ice. I attack G with the Angel, who blocks with Sunblast Angel, and K with Godo’s first attack, who blocks with the Myr. I then attack K with Godo again (20), hitting him with the Sword (18) and drawing Izzet Signet. I need some card draw, so I figure I’ll Gamble and grab Sphinx of Magosi. It was a rough bet, though, as I lose Capsize. Then cast the Sphinx and use it to draw a card, getting Scythe of the Wretched.
Round 13
K: Gates in SDT again, then plays Eye of Ugin. Searches up Kuldotha Forgemaster and plays it. Draws 4 with Tower of Fortunes
tower of fortunes
Colorless card draw.
Then plays Font of Mythos and Expedition Map, and I draw Vivid Creek and Loxodon Warhammer off the Remora. Puts another counter on the Cannon.   
G: Gate reveals Gift of Estates. Plays Shattered Crypt for 2, returning Sunblast Angel and Big Game Hunter to his hand and going to (16), while I draw Prophetic Bolt from Remora.   Just FYI, Shattered Crypt is an inferior version of Death Denied.  Plays the Angel, but in response I untap Godo with Minamo, School at Water's Edge, so the only thing that dies is Angel of Despair.  At this point G and K are worried about me and start talking about ways to slow me down. Their plan is to have G attack K with Puppeteer Clique, so the Clique can die and bring something back to kill Godo. G attacks K with the Clique and Divinity of Pride, but they forget that the Clique has flying, and K only has the Forgemaster. So K drops to (11) and G goes up to (20).
Me: I Gate in Glen Elendra Archmage, and draw Future Sight, Gilded Lotus and Scalding Tarn. I equip my Sphinx with Sword of Kaldra and Loxodon Warhammer after casting it, giving it 15 power. I pump the Sphinx, drawing Earthquake. K has so much stuff in play that I forget he has Forgemaster. I attack K with Godo and G with the Sphinx. K blocks Godo with Forgemaster, and G drops to (4). I then attack K with Godo again, and he drops to (6), then (4) after getting hit by the Sword. During my second main phase I Earthquake for the win.
After the game K noted that he screwed up, and could have had infinite mana that last turn with Prototype Portal shenanigans, but instead he chose to play the Forgemaster. Ah well. G also noted that he had Beacon of Unrest and was planning on bringing by my Kiki-Jiki for his own shenanigans. I pulled it out just in time.


So the biggest MVP of the game played by an opponents was this card:

The Karn player had enough mana to be able to bring back almost his entire team each time the board was wiped with this card.   Even if you were only able to bring back one creature each time, this would still be a pretty good method of card advantage.  I would recommend giving this card a shot when you get a chance.

You can find the deck for download or purchase HERE.  It comes out to around 140 tickets, which isn't horrible.  If you want to save some cash, Strip Mine can be replaced with Ghost Quarter, Mana Drain can be replaced with Counterspell, and All is Dust can be replaced with Oblivion Stone.  The last big money card is Sword of Fire and Ice, but you should get that card for all your other decks as well.  Trust me, it's worth it.

Other considerations for the deck include Pithing Needle, and more artifact destruction, such as Shattering Pulse.  Some graveyard hate may be helpful as well.  This deck is obviously not top tier, but it can hold its own against most of the decks out there. I definitely had fun playing it, and lot's of people were impressed that Tibor and Lumia could be competitive.  Like I said, people generally underestimated what you were capable of with this deck, until they saw me drop an equipment with deathtouch.

Hope you enjoyed the deck.  Until next time!

Leviathan, aka Tarasco on MTGO
mrmorale32 at yahoo dot com


This is funny because a few by MMogg at Thu, 10/28/2010 - 08:09
MMogg's picture

This is funny because a few days ago I just finished a Tibor and Lumia Commander deck, but mine was way different from yours on a lot of card choices. I included a lot more steal stuff cards, clone effects and copy/redirect spells. You have some of these, but I jammed all the ones I could find. LOL This colour combination is so fun: mischievous and chaotic! =D Unfortunately, I got hated out pretty badly.

Speaking of, on a side note, when playing that deck someone said to me that Teferi was a "jerk card" because he was, quote, "denial". =/ I argued with that logic since he didn't counter anything, and in fact, the Path to Exile he received and the Condemn aimed at my Tibor and Lumina acted more as "denial" than my Teferi. Since when is City of Solitude considered "denial"? =/ I swear, sometimes MODO Commander Timmys make me scratch my head.

... by pumpkin_hd at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 06:30
pumpkin_hd's picture

I was in that game too and I remember that he had pretty dubious viewpoint about what "denial" is, so don't scratch your head too hard. :)

Sweet, so it wasn't just my by MMogg at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 08:20
MMogg's picture

Sweet, so it wasn't just my perception. =)

I really don't mind playing by a social contract, but when people start complaining about things as relatively tame as a non-general Teferi, it makes me MORE inclined to just say screw it and go for a full mono blue control counter suite. If you're gonna get tarred and feathered ya might as well make it worth it. ;)

I already submitted my next by Leviathan at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 12:21
Leviathan's picture

I already submitted my next article (Numot based on a comment by Flippers_Giraffe) but I am going to be preparing another article going over cards people hate. I'm going to try not to pass personal judgment on stuff, but it will be hard not to do so.

Why not? the point of by Paul Leicht at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 13:19
Paul Leicht's picture

Why not? the point of punditry is to give your opinion.

That'll be funny. It was by MMogg at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 17:24
MMogg's picture

That'll be funny. It was interesting to see that in Aaron Forsythe's deck (you posted in a previous article) had Armageddon effects. =/ Seems like the lines are always blurry.

Two suggestions. 1) you can use some kind of small icon to give the cards ratings of annoyance, like with movies that have star ratings. 2) Try to formulate some general categories of things that are frowned upon, that way Commander players will have the tools to assess cards not discussed.

Personally, I never saw the difference between Hindering a creature or immediately Condemning it, but for some reason the latter is more acceptable. Just seems hypocritical.

As a quasi Timmy I object to by Paul Leicht at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 11:49
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As a quasi Timmy I object to placing the blame on our demographic. It is the players who don't know where they stand that come up with the weird double standards.

heh heh I too am by MMogg at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 17:34
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heh heh I too am quasi-Timmy, but I can't see a Spike or a Johnny objecting to Teferi as denial.

Also, I think you're forgetting that there are different types of Timmys, not just one. Have you read this:


Interesting stuff. =) You're probably right in that no *one* demographic is to blame for that kind of mindset, but of the three base demographics, I figured Timmy fit best. =)

http://puremtgo.com/articles/ by Paul Leicht at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 18:29
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http://puremtgo.com/articles/magic-archetypes-evolution-magic-persona yes I think I am familiar with the different types. :D

Hey spam filter fuck you. by Paul Leicht at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 18:44
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Hey spam filter fuck you. stupid feature is blocking me from extending my reply.

=) Interesting additions to by MMogg at Sat, 10/30/2010 - 18:51
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=) Interesting additions to the types. I think it really just shows how diverse some of the reasons are for people involved in this game.

I didn't enjoy losing to this by Paul Leicht at Thu, 10/28/2010 - 12:30
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I didn't enjoy losing to this commander but I did enjoy the process of playing against it several weeks ago.

Thanks for the comments by Leviathan at Thu, 10/28/2010 - 13:38
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Thanks for the comments guys.

I have seen T&L decks like the one you describe, Mogg, and that's definitely a way to go. But I wanted to be a little more aggressive and offensive (in more ways than one) so that's why I went this route. If you have the patience to hold on to those Deflections and Goblin Flectomancers, though, more power to you.

Thanks for that game Paul! My deck worked pretty smoothly there, so I think it would have been tough to defend against no matter what. But at least you came in second!

As for the deck, I would take out Kiki-Jiki and include Mimic Vat. Not counting the Commander there are only 6 legendary creatures, but whenever I drew Kiki I only had one of my legends out. Mimic Vat gets around that problem, and although they aren't identical, they are functionally the same.

T and L by Lythand at Fri, 10/29/2010 - 15:00
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I have a Tibor and Lumia dack I play with in paper, but it's a Copy deck. Copys spells, artifacts, creatures, everything. More of a reactive than a proactive deck, but still fun. I may do an article on it. I like your version though.

Like this one :) by fataardvark at Mon, 11/01/2010 - 21:43
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I did a T&L with the copy/redirect theme and never really got it to work for me. Like the slant you've put on it.

I wanted to comment on the "jerk card" comment. I really don't mind what decks people bring to the table, but I won't hesitate to walk away when it no longer becomes fun. Fun being entirely subjective and changable. Trying to find an answer to the Momir Vig player with Teferi and Seedborn Muse on the table can be fun, facing a leyline/helm combo on turn three isn't, rebuilding from a Dimensional Breach depends on my mood.

I started taking out anything out of my deck I wouldn't want to face, so Sneak Attack and Survival now powers out dragons rather than Eldrazi and its just as fun. Nobody's complained about Hellkite Overlord yet but hiding Emrakul under a Mosswort Bridge just feels icky.

The only cards I really dislike are those that deny you the ability to play. Bouncing Winter Orbs, pickles lock, recurring time stretch. If you want to play solitaire don't expect me to watch.