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By: Kumagoro42, Gianluca Aicardi
Nov 22 2013 12:36pm
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 Welcome back to Tribal Apocalypse, the PRE where it seems like it was yesterday when the Kithkin won the first event in the Blippian Era (where I ended second place!)

   Table of Contents 

  1. Last Week on Tribal Apocalypse...
  2. The High Price of Winning
  3. Show and Tell
  4. Announcement Time!
  5. What's Next


 So, a funny thing happened to me while playing in the 150th Tribal Apocalypse event last week. I essentially disgusted myself by playing an Entomb/Exhume Angel build with Iona and stuff. No, seriously, I kept having first hands with both Entomb and Exhume, so I could summon a turn-2 Iona and frequently forcing a concession, and it felt too lame to me to be done. And as you may know, I'm a big fan of reanimator builds (being in large part a Timmy). But it occurred to me in all clarity how there's stuff that it's not about a power combo you have to devolve your deck to, like it is for dredge, or storm, or even something like the Grindstone/Painter combo (which we now have a full deck tech of). With Entomb is just about sheer luck. You don't even play a game where you Entomb/Exhume Iona vs. a mono-colored deck, or a deck strongly based on one color. It's partly an issue generated by Iona being released from her ban prison time and into the custody of Angel builds, but we didn't see a great proliferation of Angel builds as a consequence. And it would be almost as likely to get a concession in response of a turn-2 Akroma or Avacyn, honestly. Entomb Reanimator still likes Demon builds better, thanks to Griselbrand.


So lame.

 For once, I'm not talking about something too ubiquitous, although Entomb is definitely around way more than any of the cards in the old Watch List. It's about the lameness of a game that ends at turn 2 because you're lucky. So I wonder: should we avoid this, as a principle? I can think of two cards that can do it consistently, by just drawing into them (or mull into them if you're ruthless), while you also have another element available: Entomb (if you can find an Exhume, or Animate Dead or Reanimate in conjunction – and you can even resolve both at turn 1 with a Mox or a Dark Ritual); and Show and Tell (with a turn-1 accelerator of choice, and of course a big Eldrazi or any other nasty stuff you can think of). So I'm now thinking if banning these two cards might be conceptually correct. Entomb feels like a Demonic Tutor in Tribal, after all. Now, my ban list is mainly conceived to try and avoid situations where you KEEP seeing some annoying stuff over and over again. You don't see Doomsday, like, ever, so there's no point in banning it. But you see turn-2 or turn-3 wins via Entomb and Show and Tell. Should we avoid it, just like we avoid Glimpse of Nature and Hypergenesis builds, that are similarly fast & furious & annoying? This somehow feels more urgent than the question of Punishing Fire or Cephalid Illusionist (that I've not forgotten, but the latter especially isn't showing up lately at all, so it seems a very weird moment to ban it).

 While I wait for everyone's feedback on this, I think I'll put Entomb in the T9 in place of Dark Ritual. I was trying to avoid to hinder specific strategies with the T9 inclusions, but essentially nobody plays Dark Ritual in Tribal Wars anyway, it was just a token to represent black in the list. Entomb might be the 1-mana black card to put in the list of what we don't want around during the primordial innocence of Pure events. What do you guys think?

 In other news, next week the world celebrates BlippyTheSlugmas. Which means Slugapalooza! The link is for the main Modern event on Tuesday, November 27 at 8:30 PM EST. But down at Tribal Apocalypse we'll do our Slugapalooza as well, and it's an event where essentially everyone has to play a Slug deck. If you want to be as lame as a second turn Entomb/Exhume, you are allowed to play a non-Slug deck, but if you do, you aren't allowed to play anything but your tribe, lands, and Slugs. And you must play at least 8 Slugs anyway. So just play a Slug deck, for God's sake.


You don't even have to play all 4 of them: 12 Slugs and 8 Changelings are perfectly legal.


  • Event Number: 3.45, Week 150 BE
  • Date: November 16
  • Attendance: 22
  • Rounds: 4
  • Special Rules: Tribal Alpha (play only with the Alpha Tribes, no Big Shots)
  • Winner: Robin88 (Spirit)
  • Other undefeated: pk23 (Merfolk)
  • 1 Loss: CruelHellraiser (Zombie), ML_Berlin (Soldier), fliebana (Merfolk), justcanceled (Dragon)
  • Special Prizes: Origin Prize to pk23 (Merfolk), Underdog Prize to SekKuar Deathkeeper (Unicorn)
  • Tribes: Angel, Beast, Demon, Djinn, Dragon, Dryad, Elemental, Golem, Merfolk (x4), Ogre, Soldier (x2), Specter, Spirit, Troll, Unicorn, Wraith, Zombie (x2)
  • Event link (with all players, pairings, standings, decks, and results): here it is

 So, congratulations to Robin88 for his 5th win in his debut year (and almost always with 62-card decks, what this does tell us about the old must-be-60-and-not-an-ounce-more rule?). This projects him at the third place in the Seasonal Leaderboard, only 1 point away from slug360's second place! This time, Robin did it with this Spirit deck featuring a nice aura toolbox:

 So Tallowisp can now fetch Hopeful Eidolon. That seems interesting. Zur the Enchanter can, too, and about that, sorry if some of the rule pages made it seem like you couldn't play off-tribe creatures bearing one of the banned types (in this case, Wizard). It was a mistake on my part, you weren't allowed to play only the non-Alpha types. As a general rule (that's in the official ruling now: section C-12), the Gatherling filter always takes precedence. If the Gatherling filter allows it, then it's correct. So if you have some doubt or just want to try, reg a deck and see what the filter says.

 Against Robin in the final there was a Merfolk deck (also featuring Kira, busy week for that little dude), piloted by pk23 – a good occasion to remind you of pk's interview about the Modern format, where's he's an absolute boss. You can wonder why there's Merfolk of the Pearl Trident in there: it was because of the Origin Prize asking the players to run all their available tribal members from Limited Edition Alpha. And pk23 did it, running the basic vanilla dude on top of the more obvious Lord of Atlantis (from back when the Merfolk where literally the Earth's mythic tritons or something).

 Merfolk are quickly regaining their expected status of major tribe after having been weirdly underplayed for the first two years of the Blippian Tribal Apocalypse. The unbanning of Aether Vial might have a role in this, but it's not just that, because they had been doing good results before. They simply weren't played enough. Speaking of which, Merfolk, along with Faerie, Kor and Zombie, are only one win short of entering Big Shot status (the tribes that won 5 times or more). Each of these four tribes deserves it. Just like the Pure events deserve to be left alone by all of them.

 And speaking of Zombie, a tribe which has an opposite story compared to Merfolk (one of the most popular tribes, but not very successful due to a plethora of not very competitive budget builds), they didn't risk of going 5th win this time, but they were close to it, thanks to this build by CruelHellraiser.

by CruelHellraiser - Top 4
4 Cemetery Reaper
4 Scathe Zombies
4 Scavenging Ghoul
4 Zombie Master
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Undead Warchief
20 cards

Other Spells
3 Bad Moon
3 Oubliette
2 Dark Ritual
2 Drain Life
2 Evil Presence
2 Paralyze
2 Read the Bones
16 cards
24 Swamp
24 cards

Scathe Zombies

 Look at that parade of old glories! Bad Moon! Oubliette! Paralyze! Paralyze, you guys! Too bad for Read the Bones, that one sticks out like a sore thumb. But I guess it's paired up with the new Zombie star from Theros, the Gray Merchant of Asphodel.

 Finally, to remember we were in an Alpha Event, so these tribes were only the ones already present in Limited Edition Alpha (including, weirdly, the freshly retconned Nymph), here's AJ_Impy's Golem build that also tried to win the Origin Prize by running that absolute stinker that is Obsianus Golem. And this Cabal Coffers/Solemn Simulacrum ramp is also featured in this installment's Show and Tell. Enjoy.

 And that's it.


 Also known as: how much do the top decks cost? As of November 22, 2013, here's the answer (MTGO Traders prices; mtgGoldfish charts and analysis; the cheapest version of each card is always used; basic lands count zero):

  • 1st place, Robin88's Spirits: $369.56 (nonland cards: $90.15; tribal base: $66.59)
  • 2nd place, pk23's Merfolks: $170.24 (nonland cards: $90.29; tribal base: $40.49)

 Not very cheap builds this week, partly because the fetchlands dealing with blue mana are damn expensive these days, with Misty Rainforest at over 18 tix. Robin88's build, typically Singleton-style, is also single-handedly lifted up in price by his one Wasteland, that's increasingly more monstrous at nearly 80 tix apiece (now that so many regular events are suspended, give us some Tempest draft, Wizards!). And of course, Geist of Saint Traft is still pricey, if a bit less than during its peak days. Zur the Enchanter is also worth a mention, since Theros with all its enchantments projected him as high as 5 tix for the first time in his career.

 The Merfolks have Lord of Atlantis at 8 tix to keep up the tribal base, and of course there's also Cryptic Command in pk23's deck, still expensive even after the Modern Masters reprint.

 The Top 10 Cheapest Decks that Went Undefeated

  1. morpphling's Goblins, $2.35, 2nd place on Event 102
  2. Gq1rf7's Goblins, $3.70, 1st place on Event 145 (cheapest event winner)
  3. Gq1rf7's Goblins, $4.12, 2nd place on Event 141
  4. Gq1rf7's Assassins, $4.18, 1st place on Event 147
  5. Trickerie's Golems, $4.31, 1st place on Event 138
  6. arcbounddaylabor's Goblins, $4.46, 1st place on Event 111
  7. Coolcat1678's Elves, $5.13, 2nd place on Event 149
  8. ellmaris's Goblins, $6.52, 2nd place on Event 103
  9. Heureka's Weirds, $6.53, 3rd place on Event 140
  10. kokonade1000's Rats, $7.55, 2nd place on Event 140

 NOTE: not adjusted to current prices; data collected since Event 85.



 First of all, I finally managed to correctly upload the full Bazaar of Baghdad's great audio commentary/deck tech of his Scarecrow deck from Tribal Apocalypse 148. So just go and listen to it, right now.

 And this is a great game from last week's event, where AJ_Impy's Golems quietly ramp against an aggressive Beast build by hexalite (that combination of Kalonian Tusker, Rancor and Ordeal of Nylea looks lethal). I won't say what exactly happens at the end, but it has to do with a Colossus of Rhodes, I mean, Colossus of Akros attacking like it was Marit Lage into a freshly dusted battlefield.

 Check the complete archive of Show and Tell here.


 Just to remind you of a few things: 

 The Up-and-Coming Prize is now 3 tix! So go find a tribe that never won an event (the Unhallowed list) and try and be the first to break it!

 The Tribal Achievements: Welcome to the second season of the Tribal Achievements! Find new ways to have fun within Tribal Apocalypse, challenge yourself to complete all kinds of strange MTG feats, and make some tix in the process.

 The Hamtastic Award: The Biodiversity Prize dedicated to the memory of Erik Friborg has started again, for its 8th edition: be the first to run 10 different tribes in a row and you'll get 5 tix on SBena_Bot! You have to play all the rounds of an event in order for the tribe to be added to your sequence. If you repeat a previous tribe, your whole sequence resets. Current leaders: AJ_Impy and milegyenanevem with 5 tribes played.

 The Mongoose Pride Prize! As the last tribe standing after everyone else had been played at least once, Mongoose has become the protagonist of a dedicated prize that will remember forever that you all neglected them despite Nimble Mongoose being featured in high-profile, tier-1 Legacy decks. The Mongoose Pride Prize will permanently award 1 tix (at SBena_Bot) to everyone who'll just... play Mongoose. That's right, you just have to play them and you'll get 1 tix, till the end of times. Well, there's just one clause: you have to win at least one match with them within the event (byes and forfeits don't count). Let's show them all what the mighty Herpestidae can do, shall we?

Hard to kill, hard to play (apparently)

 The Top Players Lockout: Every time a Top Player (either a Google Era Top 8, an Ultimate Champion or a seasonal Top 8) will end undefeated, they will not be allowed to register the same tribe and deck again for 5 events (i.e. they'll have to register a different deck or decks 5 times before coming back to the undefeated one). With "deck" is meant a specific, recognizable archetype (e.g. Wall-Drazi), which in some case will be linked to a specific combo card (e.g. Helm of Obedience). A list of the current lockouts is maintained here.

 Videos: Send us replays of your games and we'll feature them in these articles! Don't know how? Read this quick guide in 6 easy steps and start saving your tribal feats for posterity!


 The upcoming Tribal Apocalypse events of the Blippian Era (every Saturday at 17:00 GMT):

  • 3.46 (Week 151 BE), on November 23: Slugapalooza! (only Slug decks or decks with only your tribe, lands, and at least 8 Slugs)
  • 3.47 (Week 152 BE), on November 30: Pure Tribal (no off-tribe creatures, no Big Shot Tribes nor T9 cards allowed)
  • 3.48 (Week 153 BE), on December 7: Tribal Underdog (only Underdog Tribes allowed)
  • 3.49 (Week 154 BE), on December 14: Regular Tribal (just plain old Legacy Tribal Wars)

Check out the full Tribal Calendar for 2013!

Take the Quick Survey about the ban list and the event rotation!

 See you all in the Tribal room!


Thanks for the kind words. :) by Bazaar of Baghdad at Fri, 11/22/2013 - 14:55
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Thanks for the kind words. :)

LOL by BlippyTheSlug at Fri, 11/22/2013 - 16:43
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I shall endeavor to scrounge a slug deck. I want to play. I haven't in so long....

I was planning on playing by Bazaar of Baghdad at Fri, 11/22/2013 - 18:22
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I was planning on playing Reanimator Angels (basically same list as yours) for a bit last week until I audibled since the Merfolk lists scared me. Unfortunately, I got the time wrong and entered a decklist a half-hour late, even though I was on MTGO when it started.

Uhm, how did you manage to by Kumagoro42 at Sat, 11/23/2013 - 03:51
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Uhm, how did you manage to enter a list half a hour later? Gatherling stops accepting lists 10 seconds later. In fact, you don't even get the link to register in the event as soon as it's the established starting time. Just curious to know what you exactly did. :)

That's all I meant my by Bazaar of Baghdad at Sat, 11/23/2013 - 07:20
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That's all I meant by "enter"; I had my decklist loaded in notepad, went to Gatherling, and quite confusedly saw the Apocalypse in the ongoing events section. :/

I have thought for quite some by RexDart at Fri, 11/22/2013 - 19:38
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I have thought for quite some time that Entomb had become black's signature card in tribal wars, or black's "most abused" card as the T9 criteria designates. I may have actually suggested this change at some point myself, so I obviously approve :-) Entomb makes the reanimator strategies much more consistent, getting the exact fattie you need in the yard given the present board state, and without the need to draw into a fattie first and find a looting effect. It was banned in Legacy until a few years ago.

Yep, we discussed Entomb at by Kumagoro42 at Sat, 11/23/2013 - 03:59
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Yep, we discussed Entomb at some point. :)
I think my case was that, like I said here, the T9 were designed as generic useful cards, mostly removal, not linked to specific strategies. Also, they were originally the most played nonland noncreature cards – except Dark Ritual, because black didn't have any card at the top of that list, and I did want to "punish" it a bit, too. Of course, now that we've had a good numbers of Pure events, the T9 may have lost their statistical status (not sure actually, since they had a good margin and they're still massively played elsewhere). Singleton, too, creates statistical anomalies.

I wouldn't ban Entomb for its by Bazaar of Baghdad at Fri, 11/22/2013 - 21:21
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I wouldn't ban Entomb for its power; many other legal card combos are more powerful. In fact, I predicted the best Angel Entomb deck I could make would get beat by Merfolk (with Vial, counterspells, speed, and islandwalk concerns, and showing in higher numbers due to having won the previous week). Maybe I could get a Platinum in time there, but it felt chancey. Some formats, I would feel more confident in scoring the tournament win. But if I were banning several power cards, I would certainly axe Entomb. Your theory seems to be only to ban power cards that are often abused; you'll have to make the judgment call regarding frequency, of course, but I hope there is an objective measuring stick.

I wouldn't feel cheesy about it. This is a format with several legacy-legal combos that aren't banned that are more powerful than the tribes that define the format. Also, there are no sideboards to help counteract the combos. You show up to win. If you deny yourself these powerful cards, anyone else can show up with them (I'm "guilty"), and then you will feel frustrated for the loss of your fair deck. I'm going to keep bringing combos (but not the same ones) until they get banned. :) Otherwise, I don't know how far the envelope can be pushed, and it's just recriminations (at self or others) to the point of unfunness. So I'll just bring them as it suits me, and let a third party (you) do something about them when you decide it's a problem. I'll respect your decision to ban them happily.

I 100% agree that entomb is by Paul Leicht at Sat, 11/23/2013 - 01:44
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I 100% agree that entomb is not overpowered in Tribal Legacy, however if cards were to be banned at the very least Vial which was already banned would need to join Entomb.

Kumagoro, does show up for more than the win, though. He is running the event, and his goal is not merely to win but to have fun doing so and have others have fun as well. If they win fairly then that's good too. Fun is the key goal, I believe, for Kuma.

Good to see you playing again BoB.

Yes, I don't ban based on by Kumagoro42 at Sat, 11/23/2013 - 04:38
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Yes, I don't ban based on power. At least, not ONLY on power. First of all, power is weirdly subjective. And in general, there's too many powerful cards in Legacy. If you start to make a list of "powerful stuff", then you have to check for similar power levels, and then, what, ban them all? There's madness at the end of that road.

And, like Winter said, I'm not a regular player. I've a responsibility. I'm like a circus ringleader: I need to ensure that people keep coming to the show, and to do that, their experience needs to be satisfying.
This gives me the occasion to point out that a PRE like TribAp (or any PRE, really) isn't about making people win prizes. It's about making people have fun. It can't be for Spikes only, because it's not only frequented by Spikes, just like the game itself at large (which doesn't mean, of course, that it's not ALSO for Spikes).

Back to my responsibility, I can't play whatever. You can, I can't. I can't be "that guy". If the ringleader is the guy who prevents people from having fun, then we're in trouble.

I'll never get tired to repeat that I don't care about power combos that show up once per year (or twice, or 5 times), because their impact is essentially non-existent. So the argument of the power level is a non-argument to me. You know which card has a power level way higher than Entomb? Lightning Bolt. And it appears about 1000 times more frequently (by the way, we had a statistic page compiled by Vantar6697, you can find the link in the main Google sheet somewhere. I'm pushing for having a similar automatic statistics on Gatherling). Should we ban Lightning Bolt then? Of course not.

As for Entomb – and Show and Tell, let's not forget it – my position for ban consideration is that reanimator and cheat-into-play are popular enough, frequent enough, and linked to the tribal concept enough, since they're at least partially creature-based strategies.
And just like we still have strong Elves combo builds, but we don't allow for Glimpse of Nature (or Beck/Call) builds, because those start way too early and way too consistently, I'm now wondering if we should take out Entomb and Show and Tell too, so that reanimator and cheat-into-play builds will be still feasible and strong with other cards, but just a bit slower.

Entomb Reanimator is far from the most powerful deck out there (even with Angel), but it can lead to very meaningless, unfunny games, even when it loses – I know that because I played it enough, not just last week. If your build is super-dedicated, then when you lose, it's because you didn't draw into any enabler, or mulled too much in search of one, so you just stand there and watch your opponent kill you.
And it doesn't happen once per year, so it's not irrelevant.

I endorsed the Entomb/Exhume/Iona trick to punish mono-colored builds in the past (mostly Goblin, Elf, Merfolk), but I question the sense of this idea, that has also the unpleasant implication of punishing budget builds, which seems unfair and counterproductive.

I think Aether Vial isn't being played the way I'd want to (it's used "for evil and not for good"). It only shows up with Merfolk, but that's not an issue. The Merfolk are strong regardless, and they will soon be Big Shot, so they will be banned in the more protected events. I want to see Aether Vial help minor tribes, like, say, Ogre. That's why I brought it back.
I've considered to add it to the T9 (making them T10) as the colorless card of the bunch. But once Merfolk are out of the Pure events, taking Vial away with them defies the purpose or having it help Ogres and co.

See now you are making me by Paul Leicht at Sat, 11/23/2013 - 05:59
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See now you are making me want to play Ogre vial lol.

I'd be delighted seeing vial by AJ_Impy at Sat, 11/23/2013 - 09:41
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I'd be delighted seeing vial added to the T10. The thing with Ogres is most of their strength is at higher casting costs, whereas the vial is at its best with multiple good lower casting costs. If it becomes active the turn after you play it, so much the better. However, the tribes which stand to benefit most from that, being good and cheap, are mostly the big shots themselves.

Owing to its nature, vial is not a good fit for more expensive tribes, and thus usually doesn't see play with them. It can't really help the ones you want it to help, and is limited to making the tribes that don't need the help even stronger. The net effect is the strong get stronger, the weak get weaker, and what you want can't happen.

Ups, unfortunately I Never by Bartimäus at Sun, 11/24/2013 - 06:00
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Ups, unfortunately I Never found time for the tourney but enjoy to play some Games
in the casual room or reads the report here, but when playing Black at least out of nostalgy I would have rituals in it. Would
have never guessed they might had banned. So, sy if that annoyed someone. I Hope this Format stays and will grow- especially
As it seems my Big Love (100 Singleton) is already in the coffin.

Tribal has four usual by Bazaar of Baghdad at Sun, 11/24/2013 - 12:10
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Tribal has four usual sub-formats rotating once-a-month: Regular, Pure, Singleton, and Underdog. Dark Ritual, I believe, was banned only from the weekly Pure events. If I'm also not mistaken, the director of this series has already unilaterally (with participant input) taken Dark Ritual off the Pure ban list and replaced it with Entomb. You should be ready to lay those turn one Specters now.

Tx- and you hit the nail: an by Bartimäus at Sun, 11/24/2013 - 12:59
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Tx- and you hit the nail: an unhealthy love for t1 hypnotics :-) This was a great opener in the first german championship. The one and only competetive paper card event I was in and had to learn very fast that there was level beside the kitchen table. What a mess - the winner played only counters and won with opponents creatures taken by 'control magic'

I confirm what Bazaar of by Kumagoro42 at Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:38
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I confirm what Bazaar of Baghdad said. Nobody even got annoyed by Dark Ritual, which hasn't even been played that much. In the monthly Pure Tribal events, where you can't have off-tribe creatures, we also ban the most popular/abused noncreature nonland cards, which we call "Tribal 9" (or T9), and when I compiled that list based on statistics of use, black had no cards at all, so I wanted to include a black one too, and Dark Ritual seemed fitting enough, but it's not really that overpowered or overused. So now I decided to switch it with Entomb, despite the T9 not being usually focused on a specific strategy.
In fact, they are: Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Oblivion Ring, Lightning Bolt, Punishing Fire, Counterspell, Brainstorm, Green Sun's Zenith, and now Entomb.

Can we experiment with by AJ_Impy at Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:27
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Can we experiment with putting Vial on the list, at the very least until Merfolk are out of Pure contention?

No, and while we're at it - by Bazaar of Baghdad at Sun, 11/24/2013 - 19:14
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No, and while we're at it - let Merfolk only have access to Jitte. Then we can get rid of them faster from the Pure events.

I get this is ironic, but by Kumagoro42 at Mon, 11/25/2013 - 02:15
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I get this is ironic, but it's beyond my pay grade: I didn't ban Jitte, WotC did.

I can do that, but isn't it by Kumagoro42 at Mon, 11/25/2013 - 02:15
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"Can we experiment with putting Vial on the list, at the very least until Merfolk are out of Pure contention?"

I can do that, but isn't it going to slow down the process of getting Merfolk out of the way?

No, because Merfolk is by AJ_Impy at Mon, 11/25/2013 - 04:14
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No, because Merfolk is already good enough. Tribal-legal or near tribal legal merfolk decklists have won/t8ed legacy events up to and including the SCG open.

Thanx a lot for the by Bartimäus at Mon, 11/25/2013 - 05:38
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Thanx a lot for the clarification - very valuable for me to got it sorted out that way! Highly appreciated!

Yep, I'll announce the by Kumagoro42 at Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:40
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Yep, I'll announce the Dark Ritual/Entomb switcheroo on the next article.

And I'm not a director, I'm a ringleader. :)

Funny I picture most goblins by Paul Leicht at Mon, 11/25/2013 - 06:52
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Funny I picture most goblins to be green skinned... :p