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Kumagoro42's picture
By: Kumagoro42, Gianluca Aicardi
Feb 29 2012 2:36pm
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*** Tribal Apocalypse: Week 60 BE ***
This Is the World We Created

 Welcome back to Tribal Apocalypse in its 60th week of the Blippian Era. And what better way to celebrate this occurrence than by welcoming two newcomers that both managed to end Top 4 in their (I believe) first outing? But here's the thing with newcomers: they often show up with an Elf or Goblin deck. Because, you know, "Tribal is that format where creature types battle against each other, right? Like... Goblins! Or maybe... Elves! Yeah, Elves are solid, let's go with Elves." Groan.

 Not blaming anyone here, this is the actual perception of Tribal Wars from outside, after all (plus, Elves and Goblins are solid indeed). Or at least, from outside Tribal Apocalypse, before you hung out here long enough to see that this is a place where Surrakar and Elk may get celebrated, and awarded tix. And with "long enough" I mean "for at least one event", because that's what happened this very time. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Info-dump time:

  • Event Number: 8 (2012), 60 (all-time)
  • Date: February 25
  • Attendance: 16
  • Rounds: 3
  • Special Rules: none
  • Top 4: Coolcat1678 (Elf, undefeated); acgabs (Human, undefeated); Ayanam1 (Spirit, 1 loss); Hopeless Heatseeker (Elf, 1 loss)
  • Special Prizes: Endangered Prize to Nagarjuna (Surrakar)
  • Tribes: Dauthi, Elf (x2), Elk (x2), Goblin, Human (x3), Kithkin, Merfolk, Rebel, Spirit (x2), Surrakar, Zombie
  • Virgin Tribe: Elk by RJF67

 So, the interesting part here is that in an event with average-to-low attendance, we simultaneously got 2 Elf decks and 2 Elk decks, which is like the Alpha and Omega of choices. Of course, the Elk were there only because of Blippy's recently installed "Virgin Prize", which awards 1 tix to the player who brings one of the Unplayed Tribes to the tournament (since both RJF67 and vantar6697 had the same ungulate idea, the prize went to the highest final rank between the two of them). But this is still an accomplishment, as it means our regular player base is very receptive of any attempt to shake things up.

 This week we had a singular lineup for another reason: aside from the two Elk, the Surrakar, DirtyDuck's Dauthi deck and apaulogy's Training Grounds Rebels we already saw (now with a new, weirder battle name I don't entirely get: "Special Olympics aka Retarded Rebels on Training Wheels"), all the other decks represented all-time, uber-popular classic tribes, including the full cycle of the Poster Tribes from each color: Kithkin, Merfolk, Zombie, Goblin and Elf. And I'm not sure this has ever happened before during these 60 events. As for the actual decklists, I recently established that I will not feature Elf and Goblin lists anymore, except when they are somehow noteworthy or different than their usual selves (Elf decks in particular all tend to conform to the same Elfball style, which is a pity because they could be what the Humans are: just a versatile shell for whatever strategy you might think of). So, while the 4th place deck by Hopeless Heatseeker (a fellow Italian player I met in Eurodrive!) was a totally traditional Viridian Joiner/Umbral Mantle/Ezuri build, the winning Elf deck by Coolcat1678 tried and threw some interesting cards in the mix, and this makes it worth to be transcribed in its entirety:


 Don't get me wrong: this is still Elfball. It still generates tons of mana through Priest of Titania (more on her later) and Elvish Archdruid, and still pumps all the brigade with the lords, Timberwatch Elf, Joraga Warcaller, and the ubiquitous Ezuri (who's more of an afterthought here, though, as there's just a singleton copy of him and no Green Sun's Zenith to fetch it, which is also very peculiar for a successful Elf deck nowadays). But for one, this deck doesn't rely on any infinite combo to fulfill its battleplan, it just untaps the mana-producing dudes, along with Timberwatch and the lifegaining Wellwisher, using Copperhorn Scout on the fly, the full playset of  Wirewood Lodge, or a rarely seen card like Seeker of Skybreak. Even more interesting is the chosen draw engine: Slate of Ancestry, a semi-obscure artifact that refills a quickly unloaded hand, by playing into the main theme of having gazillions of creatures on the board. Of course, every Elf deck is always based on the proliferation of the pointed-eared guys, but when you take the Umbral Mantle path, for instance, you don't need a lot of them to seal the deal. Here, you have creature-based bursts of card drawing through the Slate, and also explosive bursts of further creature spawning thanks to another cool interaction: Mercy Killing on the Wirewood Herald (who plays the role of the missing Green Sun's Zenith). But not just a basic, 1-powered Herald: by pumping him with a Timberwatch first, you may end up with a huge armada, and at the same time you'll fetch Ezuri or a Warcaller, and at that point it's hopefully good game (barring opponent sweepers). Of all the combos that an Elfball deck might pull off, this is at least kinda fresh.

 Next come a pleasant comeback among the Top 4: acgabs, who was absent from the top position since last summer. His Human deck was a neat Azorius build with a definite control-ish undercurrent (gbagyt, who ended 5th place, ran a similar deck, but in Bant colors and with even more hosing in the form of Glowrider and Thalia, up to even Lodestone Golem).


 Removal, permission, card drawing, Mother of Runes to hold the field, plus Augustin, the Abolisher, and Meddling Mage to make the opponent life harder, while Champion of the Parish and Delver of Secrets provide the threats (even if Delver might not be so at home in a deck where more than three quarters of the cards fail to transform him). And the threat level is enhanced by an off-tribe presence that has recently become a staple of this kind of Aggro-Control decks: Geist of Saint Traft. We also find him in the 3rd place deck indeed, only there he's not off-tribe at all: 


 With this Spirit deck Ayanam1 confirmed his recent streak of positive results, conquering the 1st place in the current year's Hall of Fame ranking at the expense of your faithful chronichler (damn you, Ayanam1!). The acclaimed Saint with the angelic girlfriend is backed up by other Spirits from Innistrad block: the powerful Drogskol Captain, which gives hexproof even to those Spirits that don't cost 18 tix, and the pseudo-removal Dungeon Geists, plus the Lingering Souls  tokens that always come in handy. Tallowisp tutors up the powerful and flavorful Angelic Destiny, and even Steel of the Godhead (since the MVPs are all Azorius-colored, and hexproof allows for auras to be played more lightheartedly, especially on an unblockable guy like Azorius Herald). Moreso, Mirror Entity is there to contribute its classic, overpowering endgame. Since a black splash was already due to pay for Lingering Souls' flashback, Ayanam1 kept one card from last week's Cleric build: Bitterblossom, adding some Faeries to the general air superiority of the deck, which managed to beat both Goblins (by thorneweaver) and Kithkins (by all-time Top 4 mihahitlor), and only lost to acgabs.

 I played against Nagarjuna's Surrakars in the first round instead, and while he was skeptical about the Endangerd dudes' chances to shine, I found this build potentially powerful (probably because my half-baked Academy Rector into Doubling Season into Sarkhan Vol deck has been rapidly dispatched by this one).

Flight of the Surrakar
by Nagarjuna - Endangered Prize
4 Surrakar Marauder
4 Surrakar Spellblade
4 Shoreline Salvager
4 Surrakar Banisher
4 Skeletal Changeling
1 Frost Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
22 cards

Other Spells
4 Doom Blade
4 Go for the Throat
4 Daze
2 Agony Warp
1 Sever the Bloodline
15 cards
4 Polluted Delta
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
6 Swamp
5 Island
23 cards

Surrakar Spellblade


 The four existing Surrakars are all there, and they all have nice (if a bit clunky) card advantage or tempo abilities, while Surrakar Marauder might become an early unblockable beater against the right opponent. For a 4-member tribe, that's not so bad. And this not counting the real star of the deck: Surrakar Spellblade, who paired with all the packed removals and disruptors, is fully capable of turn itself into an overwhelming advantage engine, attacking across an empty board with tons of counters on it (all courtesy of the removal suites), therefore drawing more and more removals. It might be hard to face this, as I and apaulogy sadly found out. On top of the Endangered Prize, the Surrakars grabbed a well-earned 6th place with a 2-1 score. And given that next event will be Endangered Week...

 But speaking of small tribes, at their first outing, competing for the Virgin Prize, we had a surreal Elk showdown, with RJF67's build outranking vantar6697's one in the end (as, ehm, last and second-to-last. Poor, peaceful Elk...).


 Another 4-dude tribe, with Dawntreader Elk as a good new addition from Dark Ascension (sort of an alternate take on Sakura-Tribe Elder), two strong members in Great Sable Stag and Glimmerpoint Stag, and a terrible, terrible member in Gang of Elk. This is a budget build, of course, but to be honest, I don't get exactly what's going on here. There's an umbra subtheme (too bad Totem-Guide Hartebeest is an Antelope), I assume in order to protect the Elk with totem armor, but way too many singleton stuff that looks a little bit random, like Leyline of Anticipation or Wargate. And what is Amoeboid Changeling for? Or the blue as a whole, for that matter. Somehow baffling, but possibly in a creative, "not going with the obvious" manner.

 Vantar's build is strictly Selesnya, instead:


 Here the necessary changeling is the Game-Trail, a choice which I respect out of the sheer fact that it's clearly copying an Elk in the art! So flavorful. Nemesis Mask and Gaze of the Gorgon make for a modern take on the classic Lure/Basilisk combo from simpler times. And I'm not sure what Sundial of the Infinite is doing here, but it's a cool card anyway, so yay for Sundial of the Infinite.

 Finally, I want to feature a couple of decks I liked, despite their less-than-fortunate final position in the ranking. AJ_Impy made a Zombie subtribe deck (yay for subtribes too!), with this Lich build:


 Of course everybody talks about Havengul Lich these days, but what about Dralnu, Lich Lord? Sure, he's overcosted. Sure, he doesn't have flash (quite the contrary: he needs to tap, so he just sits there the first turn), but isn't he the first, true flashback-provider, years before the overacclaimed Snapcaster Mage? Tiago Chan just took this guy and made it better!

 Last but not least, this Spirit deck is the only deck I managed to beat (while also losing to Owain's Merfolk), but I was still impressed of the cleverness of the build, brought to us by justcanceled:


 It's a classic case of "you either do amazing things, or you do nothing", an approach which I always respect, because doing amazing things should be one of the main goals when playing this game (as opposed to do trite, mediocre things and win). 16 of the 20 tribal creatures are there just to be discarded in order to help the remaining one, the hasted Shinen of Fury's Fire, do its trick: the Spirit Guides provide mana, Shinen of Flight's Wings gives it flying, and Myojin of Infinite Rage turns his impressive casting cost into fuel for Blazing Shoal. Fury of the Horde is an additional free trick to have a second combat phase for a fully powered Shinen, and another card with high casting cost to pitch for the Shoal. Cold-Eyed Selkie is sort of a secondary target for the shenanigan, with the added bonus of refilling the hand in case of a non-lethal alpha attack. Game 1 ended with a 19/18 hasted flyer out of nowhere on turn 3; the hand after 3 draws was: Shinen of Fury's Fire, Shinen of Flight's Wings, two Blazing Shoals, one Myojin, one Fury of the Horde, two Spirit Guides, two lands. Of course this can't happen every time, or even frequently, but it's still cool.

 And this is it. And now...


 First things first: WARNING! BANNING AHEAD! Assume the safety position!

 Well, it's not truly a banning, but it's still something that will make some people happy (and other people mad). The bad, bad girl of Tribal Apocalypse, the one and only Stoneforge Mystic, will not be allowed anymore as an off-tribe creature. Meaning that in Tribal Apocalypse events from now on, you will only be able to play her as part of Kor or Artificer decks. (It's already official and all, check Blippy's announcement). This way you can still build shenanigan decks around her (like a good Deathrender or Sunforger deck), but not just add the infamous Caw-Blade package every time you feel the Spike call. Maybe we will experience a sudden surge of a new generation of Kor-Blade decks, but that at least will play into the legit strength of the tribe: if someone ever earned the right to be an equipment carrier, that's a Kor for sure. And Artificers are the ones that built the equipments in the first place, so it's all good.

 In news number 2, the invaluable vantar6697 came up with another great statistic idea: now in the Tribe Popularity Survey you can also see the complete list of all the played cards, ordered by popularity. The available data are all from 2012, so these statistics are based on only 8 events so far (the list will be updated after each new tournament), for a total of 156 decks, which might cause some anomalies, but it's still a starting point. Here's the Top 25 most played cards, basic lands excluded (nonland cards in bold):

  1. Swords to Plowshares (108 occurrences)
  2. Misty Rainforest (70 occurrences)
  3. Priest of Titania (57 occurrences)
  4. Flooded Strand (54 occurrences)
  5. Brainstorm (48 occurrences) 
  6. Lightning Bolt (46 occurrences) 
  7. Llanowar Elves (43 occurrences) 
  8. Glacial Fortress (41 occurrences) 
  9. Stoneforge Mystic (39 occurrences) 
  10. Marsh Flats (38 occurrences) 
  11. Oblivion Ring (38 occurrences) 
  12. Tundra (37 occurrences)
  13. Sunpetal Grove (35 occurrences) 
  14. Timberwatch Elf (32 occurrences) 
  15. Wellwisher (32 occurrences) 
  16. Elvish Visionary (31 occurrences) 
  17. Wasteland (31 occurrences) 
  18. Tropical Island (30 occurrences) 
  19. Copperline Gorge (29 occurrences) 
  20. Daybreak Ranger (27 occurrences) 
  21. Elvish Archdruid (27 occurrences) 
  22. Rootbound Crag (26 occurrences) 
  23. Savannah (26 occurrences) 
  24. Scalding Tarn (26 occurrences) 
  25. Green Sun's Zenith (25 occurrences)

 So, almost half of the Top 25 nonland cards are from Elfball. Also, Forest is the most played basic land (with 467 occurrences) followed by Plains (336). Green and White appear to be the most popular colors in Tribal Apocalypse. Besides the obvious top place of Swords to Plowshares, which has been the best removal in the game since Alpha, you'll also notice Stoneforge Mystic being in the Top 10 (you can guess why she got restricted). Other factoids (looking forward to a more complete analysis when there will be a greater amount of available data):

  • Most played land: Misty Rainforest (7th place)
  • Most played non-fetch land: Glacial Fortress (14th place)
  • Most played snow-covered land: Snow-Covered Island (10th place)
  • Most played creature: Priest of Titania (8th place)
  • Most played artifact: Sword of Fire and Ice (77th place)
  • Most played enchantment: Oblivion Ring (18th place)
  • Most played planeswalker: Jace, the Mind Sculptor (55th place)
  • Most played sorcery: Green Sun's Zenith (33rd place)
  • Most played instant: Swords to Plowshares (1st place)
  • Total number of different cards: 1112

 And finally, it's time for the first of the 2012 Special Events. We will have some good stuff going on this year (among other things, a Commander Tribal 1v1, and the awesome Fattie Week - stay tuned!), but the March 24 event will come just three days after the equinox, so we will have a Spring Celebration. And what says Springtime more than a good Two-Headed Giant tournament? (Well, lots of things do, but this is what you'll get. Also, it's the celebration of the newfound love and harmony Spring brings about!). Team registration will be accepted; if you register as a single, you will be paired randomly with another single registrant. But that's sad! It's your prom all over again! Go find a teammate, now! Golden Rule: the team members can't play the same tribe. Also, there's a banned list and stuff. Check that link above already.

 And now, for the most awaited section...



 Last time we saw how there's still a lot of creature cards missing online, as the new and improved Complete Creature Types Reference Table now shows (Humans still  to be processed - so many things to do, so little time). This week, let's have a look at the tribe with the most missing ratio, Nightstalker. A shocking 58% of these guys aren't online yet, meaning 7 out of 12. We have these ones from Mirage:


They should be played for Cliff Nielsen's superb art alone. And they call Spirit of the Night! That's a deck!

 Plus these other two:


Spoiler: the second one is from the same place as the missing ones

 But as all the sets since Mirage are now available, where the hell they came from? Well, one is from Legends, the progenitor of them all:


Great flavor: all children know that the bogeyman will save you as much as he can, like a misunderstood guardian angel

 As for the other ones, well, does Portal Second Age ring a bell for you? That's right, for some reason, the second in the lineage of the weirdest expansions ever had a Nightstalker theme.



They even have their own global reanimation sorcery! Which costs 7! And destroys all your lands!

 Do you see a deck there? Maybe. There are worse tribes, after all. But I'd probably go with the Cliff Nielsen ones, two changelings and a couple of Spirit of the Night. Just because I like to fetch (good-looking) fatties. Anyway, have a good sleep filled with gentle bogeymen, and see you in tribal!




Sundial in the 2nd elk deck by Paul Leicht at Wed, 02/29/2012 - 14:58
Paul Leicht's picture

Sundial in the 2nd elk deck is simply to make Glimmerpoint's trigger permanent by negating the return trigger. (I also built an Elk variant and some other tribal decks with sundial in them.) In addition to the obvious, the Sundial by itself hoses instant speed removal,draw, and activated abilities attempted on your turn. This means your opponent tends to tap out more on their turn thus making your plays that much safer.

Right, of course! I was by Kumagoro42 at Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:31
Kumagoro42's picture

Right, of course! I was looking and not seeing. :)

Broken link... by BlippyTheSlug at Wed, 02/29/2012 - 18:04
BlippyTheSlug's picture

The link to the 2HG announcement appears to be broken. For those that are interested:


Well, the link DO bring you by Kumagoro42 at Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:39
Kumagoro42's picture

Well, the link DOES bring you to the Tribal Apocalypse forum, just one click away from the right page. :)

it'll be interesting to see by JustSin at Wed, 02/29/2012 - 18:28
JustSin's picture

it'll be interesting to see how the 2hg event plays, can't wait to see it... def a good idea for partners not being able to use same tribe, but I still feel there has to be some way to abuse 2hg lol

edit: does this essentially mean that one person can run dragons, the other spirits and both sitting on a full set of Koku?

And what about a by Kumagoro42 at Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:33
Kumagoro42's picture

And what about a Kor/Artificer teamup with 8 Stoneforge? :)

You're killing me here! by BlippyTheSlug at Wed, 02/29/2012 - 23:41
BlippyTheSlug's picture

Cheese on a cracker. Am I going to have to enforce Unified Deck Construction (paper) rules for this event? Don't make me get naked. No one likes to see saggy old man bottom.

From the MTG 2HG page: "Two-Headed Giant uses the Unified Deck Construction rules. With the exception of basic land cards, a team's combined decks may not contain more than four of any individual card, counted by its English card title. (For example, if one player is using four Naturalizes in a Multiplayer Constructed event, no other player on that team may have a Naturalize in his or her deck.) Sideboards are not allowed in Constructed Multiplayer tournaments."

I guess your other option is by JustSin at Thu, 03/01/2012 - 12:39
JustSin's picture

I guess your other option is to make pairings random

I don't like random pairings by Kumagoro42 at Thu, 03/01/2012 - 17:32
Kumagoro42's picture

I don't like random pairing because it takes out the strategic aspect of 2HG deckbuilding. You have to build two decks that work together. With random pairing, you just have to be lucky enough in getting a strong partner, and not mess him up during the games.

Yeah, absolutely. Do it, by Kumagoro42 at Thu, 03/01/2012 - 17:29
Kumagoro42's picture

Yeah, absolutely. Do it, please. (The ruling part, not the naked part).

Done deal. by BlippyTheSlug at Thu, 03/01/2012 - 19:56
BlippyTheSlug's picture

Here are the amended rules (so far) for the Springtime Special:

Both team members may not play the same tribe.

Unified Deck Construction rules apply for registering teams:
With the exception of basic land cards, a team's combined decks may not contain more than four of any individual card, counted by its English card title. This includes non-basic lands, such as fetches and duals, as well. (For example, if one player is using four Arid Mesa in a Multiplayer Constructed event, no other player on that team may have an Arid Mesa in his or her deck.)

UDC will not be strictly enforced for single registrants. Single registrants, while trying to conform with UDC as much as possible, will be paired semi-randomly.

Glistener Elf
Inkmoth Nexus
Luminarch Ascension
Magister Sphinx
Phyrexian Swarmlord
Serra Ascendant
Sorin Markov
(more cards may be added)
(this is IN ADDITION TO the regular Tribal Apocalypse banned list)

Lich was a fun one to do, and by AJ_Impy at Thu, 03/01/2012 - 04:04
AJ_Impy's picture

Lich was a fun one to do, and is interesting in that every single lich wants completely different things. Havengul wants dead creatures, Dralnu wants instants and sorceries, Phylactery lich wants artifacts, Lich lord of Unx wants zombies in play, Scornful Aether-lich wants an enemy colour mana pair. A challenging deck, worth it for the one match where the right things came together to roll over my opponent twice.

I concur on the Stoneforge ruling: She's still in the format for shenanigans, but seeing monoblack decks splash for her and her alone just seemed abusive.

There was a tribal 2HG run in the pre-Blippian era: It was great fun and the final became an international affair between team US and team UK, with Melissafey and I taking the glory back to Blighty with an Angel/Beast pairing. Details here: http://puremtgo.com/articles/tribal-apocalypse-ponderings

Thanks for that link, I by Kumagoro42 at Thu, 03/01/2012 - 17:28
Kumagoro42's picture

Thanks for that link, I forgot to mention that first experiment during the glorious Shardfenix Era (a salute to Shardfenix, as always!). I end up paired with him, btw, and we did very badly. I was entirely 100% Spike-free at that time, so that was probably my fault more than everything else.

The Stoneforge ruling was really a great thinking by Blippy.

"A challenging deck, worth it for the one match where the right things came together"
Every player should write this on a post-it and stick it on their screens.

Unfortunately for some of us by Paul Leicht at Thu, 03/01/2012 - 18:36
Paul Leicht's picture

Unfortunately for some of us that one match is quite rare indeed. Not worth wasting a post-it for. AJ is a legend for a reason.

The one match might also come by Kumagoro42 at Fri, 03/02/2012 - 03:37
Kumagoro42's picture

The one match might also come once in a lifetime, if the deck is really the most complicate and ambitious ever (think of a deck where every card is part of a single, gigantic endgame combo). And that will be the veritable triumph of that deck, exactly like if it won a PTQ.

Every deck sooner or later delivers. Of course, if your deck just tries to win in the most simple and plain way, and fails to do so most of the times, there will not be any satisfaction when it does.
But the point is exactly this: build ambitious decks, and then cherish the times when they do what they were supposed to do (the more ambitious and overcomplicated they are, the fewer these times will be, of course. The challenge is to make them work more and more often, but it doesn't really matter as long as they work enough).

This is the life of a Johnny. And this is the reason AJ is a legend: because he might well be the living illustration of Johnny (and that's why I was worried when he looked a bit dispirited for a moment, some weeks ago).

And btw, post-it notes are always useful to remind us of the things we already know and keep forgetting. If we write the right words on them, they are never wasted.

Unless you forget where you by Paul Leicht at Fri, 03/02/2012 - 11:31
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Unless you forget where you put them. :) Anyway I think I am Johnny enough to build interesting decks. They just typically fail the shark test.

Stoneforge by apaulogy at Fri, 03/02/2012 - 15:54
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So can we restrict the "big" Eldrazi's to Eldrazi decks now. Because that is the logical next step...in fact, I think this event would be infinitely more interesting if one were to never deviate from the selected tribe in their deck. If you choose Constructs, then play all constructs...This would also make it hard to play decks like Dredge, which no one likes anyway...

Sorry, but there is no reason that Plants or Walls should ever win events unless they Banefire you, if we follow the logic of this Stoneforge restriction...

Of course, I am the only opponent to this decision, strictly due to the fact that I think it sets a bad precedent...

No. by BlippyTheSlug at Fri, 03/02/2012 - 16:13
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The "Big Eldrazi" only appear in specific archetypes, such as Wall/PlantDrazi, Emmy Elves, Drones, etc. They are not shoved in randomly as an "off tribe" creature. You have to build your deck around bringing them out.

SFM was jammed in any tribal shell as an "off tribe" creature on a *very* frequent basis for equipment shenanigans. How many of the 39 SFM's that appeared in 2012 so far (it's the 9th most played non-land card) were "on tribe"? Not a one.

Ok by apaulogy at Fri, 03/02/2012 - 16:41
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Who plays Kor other than Sbena or ScionofJustice?

I put her in Rebels. Otherwise, I have no shot. I also put her in a Pegasus deck, otherwise I would have had no shot. Look, I like building decks bu I also like to think I have a chance to win...Spike.

Artificers *might* be playable because of SFM and the splicers, but they are still just strictly worse than elves or gobbos....

Thanks for addressing this anyway. I am just predicting the next "ban/restriction".

Plus, every Tribe you listed there are big mana tribes and Eldrazi are Drones, so it makes sense that Eldrazi are being jammed in there. Also, there is no such thing as "off color" and everything Eldrazi are in except nonDrone decks are off Tribe.

Maybe it is time that I bring big mana decks and Eldrazi every week just to push the issue? (I guess this also implies that I will win a bunch, which may not be the truth).

I disagree about the strictly by Paul Leicht at Fri, 03/02/2012 - 16:57
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I disagree about the strictly worse comment. You have to build it tight. You definitely don't have a lot of room for fun cards but there are MANY tribes that are strictly better than even a tuned Goblins or Elves deck never mind the piles of the easy button tribes we see occasionally.

As a spike I also sympathize with your viewpoint regarding pegasi and rebels. Fun but not competitive without some edge. That's not to say those tribes can't win at all. Given a good draw vs a less good draw any deck pretty much can win. :/

Devil's advocate: I shoved in by AJ_Impy at Fri, 03/02/2012 - 17:02
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Devil's advocate: I shoved in an Ulamog as an off-tribe (but on-theme! it was the 9th indestructible creature and 5th colorless vindicate) creature in my gargoyles deck a couple of months back.

@ You two- (yes, you too Paul) by apaulogy at Fri, 03/02/2012 - 18:10
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first: thanks for not just tearing into me for what I am saying. I am definitely always on the "don't ban it, just build around it"...

second: am I the devil? cool. Can I be Hellrider?

The issue I am trying to bring to the table here is that SFM in off-tribe white decks gave those decks an alternate plan. I don't see how this is any more abusive than jamming eldrazi into off-tribe big mana decks.

When you cut off one head, two grow back. Isn't the banned list long and comprehensive enough? Do we really need to relegate this issue to tribal restriction?

Read my lips. by BlippyTheSlug at Fri, 03/02/2012 - 18:59
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I have no intention of banning/restricting the "big eldrazi". SFM remains restricted.

Ok by apaulogy at Sat, 03/03/2012 - 11:20
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Then my mission is clear.

EDIT: What i mean by that is "copy that"

How to join? by ryanraze at Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:18
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If this is written elsewhere, I apologize. I've always been a fan of tribal based MTG, but it's been tough to find someone to play with. Finally, I've gotten into MTGO and now want to get involved in these events.

Could someone tell me what I need to do to join, or when they're held?
Thanks a ton in advance. I've got a fun Samurai and Elemental deck I want to bring to the table.


For fun (not so cut throat) by Paul Leicht at Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:24
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For fun (not so cut throat) tribal decks stick to Just for Fun (advertising in chat that you are looking for Tribal Wars Legacy players) and hope you meet people not testing for the Apocalypse. Those tend to be cut throat and not fun at all. If you want more of a challenge the Apocalypse starts at GMT -5 on Saturdays, and people start registering a half hour before. That translates into 12pm eastern and 11:30am eastern before DST. During DST it gains an hour (1pm edt and 12:30pm edt).

What Paul said is all correct by Kumagoro42 at Tue, 03/06/2012 - 23:38
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What Paul said is all correct except Tribal Apocalypse has fun, non-cutthroat decks/players too (you can see the Elk decks and AJ's Lich deck in this very article). On the other hand, I quit seeking for tribal games in the Casual Room (now Just for Fun: a very deceptive name) a long time ago, since half the tribal games I got into were mainly against Elves or Goblins, and secondarily against cutthroat white aggro decks like Kithkin or Soldier. And that's definitely NOT fun for my taste (not to mention hyper-boring).

Yeah your results may by Paul Leicht at Tue, 03/06/2012 - 23:56
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Yeah your results may definitely vary in JuFF. Mine have been typically positive. On the other hand getting paired against even Liches which as you say aren't necessarily top notch could be very trying for someone with a weak, underdeveloped or just fun theme deck.