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By: one million words, Pete Jahn
Dec 02 2011 7:45am
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Hammie’s The State of the Program for December 2nd     

This series is an ongoing tribute to Erik “Hamtastic” Friborg.
 

News and Discussion Items:

How to Find a Draft - Wizards Changes Rooms: Wizards has made some changes to the names of some of the rooms, and has relocated some types of events. Here’s the announcement: 
 
As of the downtime today we have made some adjustments to how we organize events in Magic Online. These are changes that we have wanted to make for some time and knew were coming soon, but it appears the dev team snuck them in early!
 
Here is a summary of the changes:
·        Daily Events and Premier Events have been combined into one room, Scheduled Events
·        Normal Booster Draft and Sealed Deck Queues have been combined into one room, Limited Queues
·        The 8-Player Constructed room is now the Constructed Queue room.
·        The Release Queues room will now host all prerelease and release event queues
 
In addition, two of the open play rooms have been renamed. New Players is now Just Starting Out. The Casual Room is now known as the Just for Fun room.
 
We hope that these changes will help players find the games they want more easily. Have fun!
 
HOW DARE THEY! Wizards has, at a single blow, killed one of Magic’s longest running traditions. We will no longer have the opportunity to argue about what is casual, and what isn’t casual. So many great threads have turned on this issue, and so many bits have –
 
Sorry, I can’t keep a straight face any longer. Well played, WotC.
 
Mercadian Masques Countdown: Masques block has arrived, and the prereleases are here. I am not convinced that the events, as structured, are worth the TIX, but I really, really want Masques. Maybe I’ll play, and pray I open a Foil Tangle Wire.   Details on the Masques roll-out here. Details on the Prerelease here. Details on the release events are here. The Prerelease will have a limited number of big, 6 round events for 30 TIX, and Swiss Drafts for 20 TIX. The prerelease foil is Overtaker, which is marginal. I wonder how well these will fire: 6 rounders could be a problem. I’m going to have real trouble squeezing in one these this weekend.   Once the release events fire, though, I’ll be there.
 
Countdown to Masques Block: OVER.
 
Here’s your classic Masques card for the day:
 
Rhystic Study
 
This is one of my favorite multiplayer cards.   Rhystic Study either slows everyone else down, or lets you draw cards – most often, it is a mix of the two.   More importantly, since your opponents choose which happens, it looks very weak and inoffensive.   Groups that will kill a (Mind’s Eye) on sight (or its controller), will often let Rhystic Study live, for a few games at least. Eventually, though, they will recognize just how good it is. Until they do, enjoy it to the full.
 
Mercadian Masques and Masques Block:
Mercadian Masques block has 220 commons, 198 uncommons and 198 rares. Since the block is being released as combined booster packs, like the old Alara block foil packs, there is no point is discussing Masques verses Nemesis breakdowns. It is all here at once.
 
The downside is that in each 64 player draft open, just one Tangle Wire will be opened.   If a Top 8 sealed event fires, with the minimum 32 players, then 186 packs will be opened in the Swiss rounds and another 24 in the Top 8 draft. Once again, that will average out to about one copy of each rare.    
 
I expect to play sealed at least until I have playsets of each of the commons. With 11 commons per pack, it is going to take me at least 44 packs just to get the commons. That means something like eight sealed events. 
 
On the plus side, I will be able to use whatever packs I win to enter more events. I won’t have the 3 Nemesis, 2 Prophecy, no Masques problems. All Masques packs can be used for entry into other Masques events.
 

Tournaments:

Thursday Night Magic for the upcoming week (December 8th ): Masques block 4 pack sealed. Cheap Masques FTW! The TNMO card for December is, as always, not yet up on Wizards website.
 
Let’s look at the Constructed Tournaments breakdown for the week of November 24th     through November 30th.  102 constructed events fired this week – that’s a gain of about 9%. The formats that fire did pretty well. The others did not. Wizards needs to do something to save these formats. 
 
Let’s look at how the events Wizards did report broke down. 
 
Format
Fired
Format
Fired
Standard
44
Standard Singleton
0
Pauper
32
Kaleidoscope
0
Innistrad Block Const.
24
100–card Singleton
0
Classic
2
Modern
0
Legacy
0
Extended
0
 
FYI: I got the number fired from the list of results, here.  
 

Cutting Edge Tech:

Standard:  Worlds is over, and the metagame is already changing. A brand new deck has broken through and won a couple events: RUG with Delver of Secrets. Here’s the list:
 
RUG Delver
JohnnyHotSauce (7th Place) Standard Premier #3076614 on 11/27/2011
Creatures
2 Daybreak Ranger
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Snapcaster Mage
14 cards

Other Spells
3 Desperate Ravings
2 Dissipate
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Gut Shot
4 Mana Leak
4 Ponder
3 Vapor Snag
23 cards
Lands
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
8 Island
2 Rootbound Crag
3 Sulfur Falls
23 cards

Daybreak Ranger

Modern: Modern was played at Worlds. It has not been played since. 
 
Innistrad Block Constructed: ISD Constructed is still going strong. I’m seeing a fair amount of Township decks, but I hadn’t seen this before. 
 

Legacy

: With no SCG open last weekend and no Legacy events firing online, nothing has changed.

 
Classic fired just two Dailies this week. (“Just” two. The format is doing fine.) Both were won by relatively new archetypes!  Details of the two events that fired are here and here. The winning decks follow.
 
One note – Fact or Fiction is still bugged online. The caster ends up choosing what goes in each pile. The workaround in Classic matches is to simply tell your opponent what the split should be, and the caster splits it that way. Not perfect, but Classic players are a decent bunch, and don’t abuse that bug.  
 

 

 

 

Shops Affinity
themagicman_22 (4-0) - Classic Daily #3076481 on 11/27/2011
Creatures
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Memnite
1 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Signal Pest
4 Steel Overseer
29 cards

Other Spells
1 City of Traitors
4 Genesis Chamber
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
2 Mox Opal
4 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
14 cards
Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Wasteland
16 cards

Arcbound Ravager
 
Card Prices:  
Notes: All my prices come from MTGOTraders.com for cards that are available in multiple sets, I am quoting the most recent set’s price, which is almost always the lowest. Thus, the price I’m quoting for Primeval Titan is from M12. If a card is out of stock, take that price with a grain of salt. MTGOTraders may not adjusted prices for a card until they have some to sell.  Another note – I note whether cards are in stock in the online store. MTGOTraders stocks their Bots first, so the MTGOTradersBot1, MTGOTradersBot2, etc. may well have cards even when the online store is out.
 
Standard prices are trending down across the board. It looks like all the tournament players have their playsets, and the drafters are continuing to stock the market, so prices are falling.
 
Standard & Block Cards
Price
In Stock?
Last Week
Change
$ 19.04
N
$ 24.07
- $ 5.03
$ 9.25
N
$ 12.52
- $ 3.27
$ 7.69
Y
$ 10.15
- $ 2.46
$ 18.75
N
$ 24.06
- $ 5.31
(Gavony Township)
$ 0.74
Y
$ 0.67
+ $ 0.07
$ 0.47
Y
$ 1.05
- $ 0.58
$ 4.55
Y
$ 5.08
- $ 0.63
$ 2.00
N
$ 3.00
- $ 1.00
$ 16.52
Y
$ 16.40
+ $ 0.12
$ 2.73
Y
$ 3.50
- $ 0.77
$ 2.33
Y
$ 3.51
- $ 1.18
(Woodland Cemetery)
$ 1.24
Y
$ 1.60
- $ 0.36
$ 11.84
Y
$ 11.84
---
$ 15.34
Y
$ 17.46
- $ 2.12
(Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas)
$ 13.12
Y
$ 12.34
+ $ 0.78
$ 14.00
N
$ 17.30
- $ 3.30
$ 16.22
Y
$ 15.69
+ $ 0.59
 $ 12.44
Y
 $ 12.44
---
$ 3.95
Y
$ 3.64
+ $ 0.31
$ 15.99
Y
$ 16.90
- $ 0.91
$ 26.36
Y
$ 26.57
- $ 0.21
$ 14.62
Y
$ 15.89
- $ 1.27
$ 12.98
Y
$ 12.98
--
$ 17.86
Y
$ 18.11
- $ 0.25
$ 18.71
Y
$ 18.28
+ $ 0.43
$ 21.54
Y
$ 24.22
- $ 2.68
$ 7.43
Y
$ 8.26
- $ 0.77
$ 10.30
Y
$ 11.30
- $ 1.00
$ 16.38
Y
$ 17.58
- $ 1.20
 
Modern prices are moving around – a fair amount of churn given that the format is not doing anything at all.  
 
Modern Cards
Price
In Stock?
Last Week
Change
$ 22.88
Y
$ 21.76
+ $ 1.12
$ 7.81
Y
$ 7.88
- $ 0.07
$ 16.57
Y
$ 15.05
+ $ 1.52
$ 17.14
Y
$ 16.51
+ $ 0.63
$ 7.57
Y
$ 6.63
+ $ 0.94
$ 19.05
Y
$ 22.74
- $ 3.69
$ 7.29
Y
$ 5.71
+ $ 1.58
$ 8.72
Y
$ 8.55
+ $ 0.17
$ 63.36
Y
$ 63.36
---
$ 12.05
Y
$ 11.43
+ $ 0.62
$ 3.57
Y
$ 3.57
---
$ 9.28
Y
$ 10.48
- $ 1.20
$ 12.28
N
$ 12.11
+ $ 0.17
$ 9.70
Y
$ 9.00
+ $ 0.70
$ 11.32
Y
$ 11.33
- $ 0.01
 
Legacy prices have stabilized.   Legacy needs to get some love. The format was doing pretty well, and then it got hit by Mental Misstep and a hoarder buying up all the duals. Since that double whammy, the format has fired almost no events. Maybe Wizards can do something about this.
 
Legacy Cards
Price
In Stock?
Last Week
Change
$ 106.69
Y
$ 106.69
---
$ 38.10
Y
$ 39.55
- $ 1.47
$ 71.54
Y
$ 71.54
---
$ 28.00
Y
$ 28.00
---
$ 36.47
Y
$ 36.47
---
$ 43.12
Y
$ 47.06
- $ 3.94
$ 10.85
Y
$ 10.85
---
$ 18.86
Y
$ 18.86
---
$ 16.31
Y
$ 16.60
- $ 0.29
$ 13.00
Y
$ 13.62
- $ 0.62
$ 39.98
Y
$ 41.80
- $ 1.82
$ 3.60
Y
n/a
n/a
$ 6.73
Y
$ 7.05
- $ 0.32
$ 3.14
Y
$ 3.24
- $ 0.10
$ 12.32
Y
$ 12.32
---
Note: cards which are staples in both Legacy and Classic may appear in either list. If you don’t see a card in one list, check the other.
 
Classic prices are oscillating slightly.   Masques block is coming. Entomb has just started dropping, probably because it is included in the new Graveborn Premium deck. (Wizards announced that they will not sell the Standard Event decks online, but I think they are still offering the specialty decks and sets.) Personally, I want the old frame Entombs. I want my classic cards to look like classic cards.     
 
Classic Cards
Price
In Stock?
Last Week
Change
$ 97.81
Y
$ 97.81
---
$ 23.35
Y
$ 23.35
---
$ 12.14
Y
$ 12.14
---
$ 13.03
Y
$ 13.03
---
$ 13.87
Y
$ 13.87
---
$ 8.63
Y
$ 8.99
- $ 0.36
$ 31.41
Y
$ 31.41
---
$ 40.22
Y
$ 40.22
---
$ 37.98
Y
$ 37.98
---
$ 9.69
Y
$ 10.18
- $ 0.48
$ 23.00
Y
$ 23.00
---

The Top Ten:

Here’s this week’s list of the top ten most expensive non-foil, non-promo cards on MTGO. No changes this week.   
 
Most Expensive Cards
Price
Set
Last Week
$ 106.69
MED I
# 1
$ 97.81
Mirage
# 2
$ 71.54
Apocalypse
# 3
$ 63.36
Future Sight
# 4
$ 47.06
Visions
# 5
$ 41.80
Weatherlight
# 7
$ 40.22
Apocalypse
# 6
$ 39.55
Tempest
# 7
$ 37.98
Odyssey
# 9
$ 36.47
Harry Potter TCG
# 10

Deck Prices:

The RUG Delver deck costs just $ 133  from MTGOTraders.com at the moment.  The singleton Thrun and the Sword are the only money cards in the deck.
 
Magic Man's Affinity deck (Classic Format) which won the DE costs $ 384 from MTGOTraders.com at the moment. Wasteland, and the City of Traitors are the only cards in the deck worth more than $20 apiece.
 

Weekly Highlights:

I played in the Standard TNMO last week, late on Thanksgiving evening. I was stuffed with good food, and managed to 3-0 with a cobbled together RG ramp deck. Even if you are short some titans, and end up subbing a lot of random stuff for cards you don’t have, TNMO is a lot of fun. Especially when you win. 
 
PRJ
 
“one million words” on MTGO.

 

47 Comments

Harry Potter TCG? You're a by el_pato at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:21
el_pato's picture

Harry Potter TCG? You're a wizard, Jace!

BlippyTheSlug's picture

"Modern: Modern was played at Worlds. It has not been played since"

"Modern prices are moving around – a fair amount of churn given that the format is not doing anything at all."

Lies! Untruths! Both of these statements are patently false!

While the DEs (Now SEs) have not fired (yet), the sanctioned 8-mans and 2-mans HAVE fired. A lot. And the non-sanctioned PREs (Overdrive!, Eurodrive!, SilverBlack, & Modern PDC) are alive & well, and gathering players left and right. In fact, there is so much interest, and so many requests, I am considering giving up my Sundays for yet *ANOTHER* Modern PRE in a more conventional style.

Modern discussion & development is in full swing on the non-wizards forums I frequent, and are some of the most active sections in those forums. I'm seeing many interesting and potentially powerful "rogue brews" coming through my doors. A Modern "clan" has formed on one.

While I understand your "anti-Modern bias", with you being a Legacy fanatic and all, you are spreading rumours that have no basis in fact. Take off your Legacy-tinted glasses! Look at what's actually happening in the Modern world instead of pointing to the SEs and saying "Look, Ma! No Modern!"

Legacy tinted glasses?!? by one million words at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:15
one million words's picture

Okay, I'll face the facts:

Sanctioned daily and premier events:
Standard: 40+ per week
Momir, Block and Pauper: around 30 per week
Classic: an average of 2 per week.
Modern: in the last month, zero online, but Worlds
Legacy: zero
Singleton, 100 card singleton, etc: also zero

I only track sanctioned events played for prizes, whether those are online or major paper events like SCG Opens, GPs or Pro Tours. I also occassionally talk about minor events that I am personally playing in, like drafts or the Classic League, when something interesting happens.

I don't try to report on PREs or local store tourneys, or store FNM events. I avoid these for a number of resaons. First, the larger the event, and the higher the cost to enter, the more likely that the winning decks will be serious staples of the metagame, and not a fluke. Second, finding decklists for these other events is usually a lot of trouble, and takes a lot more time than I have available. Third, I provide metagame coverage so people have some idea what they might face in onine dailies and PEs. If there are no DEs and PEs, I don't tend to cover it.

I also tend to cover formats that I understand and play. I don't play Pauper, so I don't cover it. (I also passed on that format because several other writers on this site were covering it quite well.)

FWIW, I have played a fair amount of Classic, a lot of standard, tons of limited, maybe a dozen sanctioned block matches and a couple sanctioned Pauper matches in the last year. I have also sat in some modern queues that didn't fire. However, I don't recall playing any serious Legacy in the past year. I'm not sure how that makes me a "legacy fanatic."

After Worlds, I included the Modern decks coming out of that event in cutting edge tech. I covered a few decks in the weeks leading up to worlds, too. After worlds, there have been no events which report results and decklists that I can find. I have no bias against other formats - when something significant happens in any format, I will report on it. However, PREs are not significant in and of themselves.

A suggestion - and this goes for everyone - if you want your format covered, instead of ripping into me for not finding you, try inviting me into your format. A simple message saying something like "Hi. we play ~this format~ here, at ~time~. You can enter by ~doing this~, and you can find out about the format and the decks ~here~. Please join us." works a whole lot better than an ad hominem attack. It worked for the Classic League.

Here's the deal: I'll mention anything that might interest the readers - just let me know. I'll provide cutting edge tech for anything I'm sure is the real deal. It's the real deal if it does really well at a large event (e.g. a 500 player SCG open, or a 1500 player GP), or even a PE. I will also report interesting decks from Dailies, if I know enough about the format to understand the deck. And if I play in something else, like a league, a cube draft or a PRE, and I think it's worth talking up, I'll cover that, too. It may not be cutting edge tech, though - it might just be a weekly highlight or the like.

one caveat, though: if you want something included, let me know early in the week, and I will try to squeeze something in.

PRJ
pete.jahn@gmail.com

Ok... by BlippyTheSlug at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:50
BlippyTheSlug's picture

First off, I apologize for 'attacking' you. Attribute it to being the first thing I read this morning, and before my brain had entirely kicked in. What can I say? I'm a grumpy old fart. :)

So...

Hi! We play Modern format on MTGO on Saturdays at 1200 GMT (euro-friendly time slot) and Mondays at 830PM Eastern (US-friendly time slot). The tournament format is 1v1 single elimination. You can join by coming to the /join Overdrive! (with the !) chat room in the hour prior to the event, and PMing me your decklist. You can find out more about these events - including winning & runner-up decklists - here:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75846/28525551/Alphabot_presents:_Eurodrive!_~_1v1_Modern_Single_Elimination_~_Saturdays_@_1200_GMT

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75846/28222469/Alphabot_presents:_Overdrive!_~_1v1_Modern_Single_Elimination_~_Mondays_@_830PM_EST530PM_PST

Please feel free to come join us! If I knew your MTGO playername, I could also PM you my "hour to go" message, which I do to everyone on my buddy list.

Modern is also played at these events, but I have no details:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75846/28274697/Modern_SilverBlack_-_Wed_6:30pm_EST_(22:30_UTC)_-_30tix_in_Prizes_-_Sponsored_by_The_MTGO_Bazaar

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75846/28725273/Modern_PDC_1....!

EDIT: I have no clue why it auto-linked the last, but not the first 3. Or why it didn't "wrap" the long lines.

Thanks. No promises, but if I by one million words at Sat, 12/03/2011 - 07:37
one million words's picture

Thanks.

No promises, but if I can get home from work in time, I'll try to get there. I should have time to play at least one round. :)

Btw, Harry Potter TCG by Alternate at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 16:37
Alternate's picture

Btw, Harry Potter TCG FTW!

Sorry for the double post, but that needed mentioned multiple times. You should join Wizards development team since ISD was based on Supernatural, the next set (Dark Ascension) will be based on Gossip Girls and they need to figure out a new planeswalker.

Thank you by apaulogy at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 14:28
apaulogy's picture
5

For being willing to cover something else.

I am the person who started the Modern clan that Blippy mentioned too.

However, I am writing something to submit to Mr. Claytor by monday.

You can cover it more if you want to, but I plan on doing so.

I appreciate your hard work on this series, sir. Have a wonderful weekend of house repairs!!

AND...you are right. Not a single Modern DE (SE whatever) has fired since 10/3, but there are 2-man and 8-mans firing.

only 2 mens are firing,not by seydaneen at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 19:05
seydaneen's picture

only 2 mens are firing,not 8mens

o they do, just rarely by apaulogy at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 19:25
apaulogy's picture

I have played in a couple 8-mans at this point...

But you are correct, generally it is mostly 2-mans

BTW- I have seen you in DE standings. You are a machine!!!

Thanks.

Masques Card of the Century??? by Alternate at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 16:35
Alternate's picture
5

Man, you need to mention the best card in Masques as your Masques card of the day... Squirrel Wrangler. It makes F***ING SQUIRRELS!!!!!!

But I'm surprised you haven't seen the RBg deck in ISD Block Constructed yet. There are 3 different versions.

But the base is having Lilliana, Garruk, and if you are playing it, Olivia. But some decks use Manor Gargoyle, or they use Snappy the Snapcasting Mage to get things back. Either way, it's control the game with Lilliana, attack with Garruk (As if he is Gideon jura in UW Control). But it certainly never maindecks Curse of Deaths Hold.

And it's funny how quickly things change. A week ago everyone was talking about WG Humans, now WG Humans are being beat to shreds by WR humans.

I want to know where that next deck is coming from in STD though. I think most of the cards and color combo's aren't being used to their greatest potential and there is room for new decks, I just haven't seen any although I did pretty well yesterday with a Uw Illusions deck losing to only a Wu and RWG Ramp Run.

*And question of the week. I see Snappy the Snapcasting Mage, based on my charts, dropping to as low as $5 and even possibly lower. Where do you see the bottom? I think it has the potential to be a $4-5 card with lowest being $3.50. Opinions anyone?
Remember, Thrun was $3 at one point and Hero of Bladehold was also only $3. If only we had time machines... But I would use it first to kill J.J. Abrahams to stop him from making Lost and therefor having no chance for a miserable ending.

both modern and legacy are by seydaneen at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 19:04
seydaneen's picture

both modern and legacy are dead righ now. as someone said modern killed legayc and then committed a suicide.

Looks like about 5 modern 2 by greyes3 at Fri, 12/02/2011 - 20:01
greyes3's picture

Looks like about 5 modern 2 mans are firing for every....40-50 standard 2 mans.

Graveborn by murban at Sat, 12/03/2011 - 00:58
murban's picture

The other Premium Decks (Slivers and Fire & Lightning) were given as prizes to the winners of events.

Fire & Lightning: Each player who finishes with either a record of 4-0 in a Daily Event or reaches the "Top 8" playoff of a Premier Event will receive 12/15/2010 to 1/5/2011

Slivers: 2/6/2010 6pm until 2/7/2010 6pm Winners of Alara Block Foil drafts

Yeah, the Slivers one was a little stingier: 24 hours to win a draft using product you couldn't buy in the store vs. 3 weeks of daily and premiere events.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/121...
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/011...

HEIRLOOM by Nagarjuna at Sat, 12/03/2011 - 05:33
Nagarjuna's picture
5

Hi! We play Heirloom - casual competetive budget format - each sunday! CHEAPER THAN PAUPER!!!!

Information can be found here:

http://mtgoheirloom.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/6921933-heirloom-pr...

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75846/28719665/Heirloom_PRE_...

Hope to see you soon ;-)

BTW: What is fun, and what isn't fun???

I'm really not sure I support by CottonRhetoric at Sun, 12/04/2011 - 00:04
CottonRhetoric's picture

I'm really not sure I support the decision to rename "Casual Decks" as "Just For Fun." It seems like WotC is just opening the floodgates for cutthroat decks to run even more rampant in the non-tournament room, leaving casual players with even less of a venue. I really don't want to play against a top 8 decklist when I've got my Varchild's War-Riders combo going, and it seems like I won't have a choice now. Of course it's too early to tell how it will turn out, and I hope that my prediction is wrong. But I'm cringing at the thought of a tournament-winning netdeck being played "just for fun."

If wizards really want the by BOBBAKAKE at Sun, 12/04/2011 - 01:35
BOBBAKAKE's picture

If wizards really want the formats to succeed they should offer more rewards for the less popular formats and or have raffle/lotto for attending. I.E. for modern 4 round swiss give 2 packs for 6 points, and enter into a drawing for a free draft pack every enter. thatll learn em.

Im positive that would not by Paul Leicht at Sun, 12/04/2011 - 02:12
Paul Leicht's picture

Im positive that would not fly as ideas go as Wizards does not even want to appear to be encouraging gambling much less being seen to be involved in it from a legal standpoint.

I know they don't want to by Alternate at Sun, 12/04/2011 - 13:55
Alternate's picture

I know they don't want to encourage gambling, but they essentially are.

I mean they are giving people access to a secondary market where tickets are being sold for real money. I mean they cracked down on Craigslist for something similar.

But regardless, without the ability to use FTP to trade tickets for real money (or any poker site), but you can still do so on PayPal, even though WotC has said that they don't have anything to do with the secondary market, it is the perfect place to launder money.

Don't be surprised if a person gets mad at Wizards and reports them to the SEC. They could have their entire system shut down and a full investigation could ensue.

**This is from my dad, a former Business Lawyer only a few years ago. "Wizards of the Coast chose to become a LLC or Limited Liability Corp.. Since there hasn't been enough cases to understand what a LLC ensues, if it turns out that if someone becomes unhappy with WotC, then the SEC could shut it down and every member of the MTGO community could file a class action law suit while the SEC investigates if there is any illegal activity going on, potentially shutting down MTGO for a VERY LONG TIME".

I apologize. My dad isn't by Alternate at Sun, 12/04/2011 - 15:46
Alternate's picture

I apologize. My dad isn't very knowledgable of WotC. But since Hasbro is the LLC, which is a very risky decision, all their subsidiaries fall under the same bylaws, and Hasbro would have to shut down MTGO so they can be investigated, that would lead to a longer process since it would go through the "Mothership" instead of WotC and it would just be a longer process.

Look, don't kill the messenger. I hate the legal process as much as the next guy and even though I passed the LSATS, I didn't go to law school for that reason.

Farmergeddon's picture

I don't agree that Legacy's woes are due to hoarding. I have just skimmed some major Bot chains for duals. Masters 4 Duals are generally available. Whether you consider prices reasonable is a matter of opinion, but they have been pretty constant and are no less affordable than standard Mythics (Underground Seas @ 28 tix- Plateaux @ 6.5). MED2 Duals are rarer.

I do take the point about Mental Misstep. Like seydaneen, I also think that Legacy and Modern are competing for a limited pool of players, to the detriment of both.

Oh and I believe I have by Alternate at Sun, 12/04/2011 - 17:59
Alternate's picture
5

Oh and I believe I have mentioned this previously and was flamed mercilessly for it, but I'll say it again because you guys just-dont-get-it.

Maybe less than 1% of MTGO players are interested in playing Legacy, Modern, and Classic.

1) People like playing with the newest cards. People are attracted to new and shiny. You also have to understand that a lot of people joined MTGO after the main cards used in Legacy/Classic/and Modern came out, so they are not familiar with them. First hand experience, I quit over a decade ago and therefor missed out on like 10 blocks or so, I don't do math.

2) STD is more affordable than the other sets. I mean classic is extremely expensive. And for the other formats, the lands alone are a load of tickets.

3) Classic, Legacy, and Modern are based on who plays first and get's the first infinite combo. The only difference between Modern and Classic is that they create an unlimited combo in modern and then they ban it, and then someone creates another unlimited combo, wash, rinse, and repeat.

4) For people who want to play STD, you already have the cards needed for most decks. So why use a ton of tickets to buy Lands, and then you have to buy the cards, like Tarmogoyf or however you spell it, when you can spend that money and make an entire deck? I mean if you want to have a shot at going at least 3-1 in a STD DE, all you need is the lands you already have, the 4-5 tix for 3 Moorland haunts, the money for Snapcaster, which most people have and is going down in price, and you can put some Delver of Secrets + some other commons and you have a competitive Blue(w) Deck. Or you can do the same and make a deck like the White(blue) that where you don't even need to have Hero of Bladehold and can still win games using ISD block cards, or the white cards I told people to buy and you all laughed at me.

5) Infinite combo's are boring. I have watched videos of classic and it's "Step 1, play mana, step 2, play card, step 3, Draw your entire deck, step 3, win game unless you run out of time. Classic is won and lost more on the clock than games.

6) Get over it. There is a reason all the classic and legacy players know each other. It's because they are the only people playing the format online.

7) You can argue that a new deck has won. YIPPIE! The next day someone creates a way to beat that deck and you never hear from it again.

Now my idea for an interesting new idea for a format is something completely unfounded.

How about Two Headed Giant? You are paired with a random partner, and your opponent the same. Then you have the choice of only playing for yourself or helping your partner. You can also have you and your partner playing with completely incompatible or compatible decks and you won't know until you play. You are given a new partner for each round.

Is it any more random than drafting? I think it would add a dynamic that you guys might not like or fall in love with. It would also add more cards to the current lists because there are cards that can affect everyone, or nobody. That way if you are playing Delver and your opponent is playing Ramp Run, you can counter while your partner get's in the damage.

The only issue is infect, but if you can't deal with infect than you can't play in general.

The best part would be that it wouldn't be hard for them to implement, and would add things to the game that haven't been there before.

ORLLY? by Cownose at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 00:19
Cownose's picture

This post wins this month's award for the largest number of dumb and or patently false statements in a single post.

Hooray for talking out our asses about things we don't actually know anything about!!!

"Maybe less than 1%" is actually "I don't know what I'm talking about so I'll make some crap up and post it". You can find a competitive classic match almost all the time and the format has been firing at least 2 and sometimes up to 3 or 4 events a week for the last month or so. Even is cas/cas people play a lot of classic and even legacy. Your number is completely made up and easily invalidated by actually looking at MTGO for more than 3 seconds.

Then you go on to rant about cost. The reality is that keeping up with competitive standard for even a few years (especially in the age of mythics) will very quickly cost you the same as buying into Classic/Legacy/Modern. If you cant afford to play those formats, that's fine, but your spreading disinformation seems more like sour grapes than helpful insight. Some of us are adults with actual jobs and can afford to play non-standard formats.

3 and 5) Most serious classic decks dont even contain infinite combos of any kind. The only commonly played one is Vault/Key, and that deck will beat you within a few turns of assembling the combo anyway. The only classic deck that even has the possibility of doing anything even close to an "infinite" combo is Metalworker/Staff and that's not even close to a commonly played deck. The top decks are Oath, Workshop, Fish, Blue-based control, and Dredge...so WTF are you talking about???

On top of this, aside from the Workshop decks, playing first is not as big of an advantage as you make it seem because the format contains Force of Will and Mental Misstep. Have you ever actually played competitive classic? If not, please do us all a favor and shut up.

+1 Alternate is just by GainsBanding at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 01:02
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+1

Alternate is just trolling.

Not trolling, just telling you the truth by Alternate at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 02:25
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5

You can cry and cry about classic and the other formats not having event's firing, but people don't play them in numbers.

What do people do the most on MTGO? Draft. And when you draft, you play those cards in the format currently being played, which is Standard.

Can you show me a classic/legacy/modern DE that has more than the same 20-30 people? Then show me a ISD Block DE or STD DE that has less than a minimum 30 people.

You play, and you know the people that you are playing. Watch the VIDEOS ON THE DAMN SITE idiots. Every time you see a video, it's between people who know each other and are on each other's buddy list's unless they aren't really competitive format players.

Just look at the numbers above. Try to get into a tournament with more than 8 people on a daily basis. I would love to see it since it hasn't happened in a while. Maybe when Snappy first came out the Classic players wet their pants, but other than that, it's the same old cards I stopped playing with over 10 years ago.

And the money is equal? You can throw together a winning standard deck for $20. Look at Delver. The only card worth money is Snapcaster. And there is no "Jace" so the "best" deck, Ramp Run, or Mono-Red, or White(u) are either running Planeswalkers worth $20 or not running a planeswalker at all. The only expensive card in Ramp Run is Primeval Titan, and a lot of people have them if they have been playing for a year or so. The Thrun is a little expensive, but most people have them from drafting, or if they sold them, they are available from every bot in the system.

The Swords aren't cheap, but also aren't entirely necessary. But if I was to spend money on anything, it's the Swords because there will never be equipment as good as that ever again.

And you think my idea's are unfounded? Go play an 8 man tournament. Pay the 6 tix, and then sit there for hours waiting for 7 other people to join.

You can get all the 2 player games you want, but guess what, the prizes are hilarious.

You spend how much on these decks? And then you win packs of M12. That is hilarious. M12 packs are worthless. And the 8 man tournaments I think are the equivalent of a 4-3-2-2. They don't even get you packs of ISD, they give you packs that wont break even in cost.

If you play standard, you get ISD packs, and if you go 3-1, you get 6 packs of ISD, which is actually worth something because you can play in a sealed or a draft. M12 drafts fire about as much as a 2 man legacy match.

So let's see, if you want to build the Worlds winning STD deck, you need 80 tix approx. for Primeval Titan, and the rest will cost you 30 tix at the most. People who drafted SOM, and there was a lot of drafting, have the Inkmoth Nexus's or can get them cheap from another person. The rest of the deck is commons and 4 tix for Kessig Wolf Runs.

Delver of Secrets costs you, at the most, 40 tix.

So you can get Underground Sea's, or Build a STD deck. I think 99% of people would rather build a deck than just get lands.

And hey, I am so happy for you that you got the 16 people needed to get 2, and that is a big TWO, Classic DE's to fire. That is so nice for you. Sounds so exciting. I wonder how many events you joined until one actually started?

The same for the other 2 formats.

Guess what. You are the same people over, and over, and over and over. Guess what, nobody else shares your opinion but you and your in the closet boy toy Whiffy_FTW/Whiffy Penguin.

If you think that only 1% of people play the other 3 formats, then just look at the amounts of events and the amount of players in each one. Then you look at the names of the players in the formats. The same guy will never win the same daily twice in a week, while the same names will pop up in every classic/legacy/and modern DE.

Classic/Legacy/Modern players are like hoarders. You know those old people who have like a hundred cats in their house and loads of garbage? It's because they can't give up and can't move on. They are scared of new things and think they will lose their dominance. Well guess what. New things are better things. So enjoy your same 16 people, your same cards, your same decks, and your same "archetypes" (Just call them decks, that is what they are right?). I will gladly take my 1800+ Limited rating, my standard decks, and enjoy playing more than 8 man queues and 2 player 2 tix games.

It's not trolling when you are right. But I would say you are a troll since you are too scared to leave your favorite format because nobody else likes it. You remind me of the kid that sits in the back of the class and hates everyone else because they are "conformists" then you go home and play WOW. Have fun killing your ORC's and monsters, and hanging out with your virtual friends. I'll stick to playing Magic late at night during the week and during sports, and then hanging out with my girl at night. I think I win this one because you have no math to back you up, while I can just show you the DE #'s and you have nothing backing you up other than your virtual dual lands and ME1 Force of Wills. Get a girl, it might help you out. Too bad Friday Night Magic isn't a place to meet women, hence why I don't play on paper.

Yes Classic is a small by GainsBanding at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 06:32
GainsBanding's picture

Yes Classic is a small community where we all know each other and we're excited when we fire 3 events in a week. I just don't understand why you are so upset about that.

Why so much hate, bro? by themaniac at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 07:35
themaniac's picture

Why all the hating?

Aren't we free to play whatever we like? I'm most of a drafter myself, and got into classic because I wanted to play some constructed format that wouldn't force me to constantly buy and sell cards, as they rotate in and out of the format.

So my monthly process goes like: draft a lot, sell all the money cards, "store" those tix in classic staples, play classic DE's, rinse and repeat.

Classic is one of the most fun formats to play. You remember fun, don't you? It's what got us into this game in the first place?

So play whatever your heart desires, m8, I will do the same. For me that's classic goodness. For you? Whatever tickles your fancy.

Stop hating (or, if you want to keep on hating, build GW hate bears - truly a degenerate and combotastic classic deck - and join classic). We'll love to have a ranter back on the classic community. It's only nice guys here atm, we sure could use you!

GW Hate is so hateful! Every by GainsBanding at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 08:20
GainsBanding's picture

GW Hate is so hateful! Every single card is full of hate. Leonin Arbiter! Qasali Pridemage! Aven Mindcensor! Kataki! Can I please play my cards before you beat me down with 2/2s?? So Borken.

hateful and expensefull by themaniac at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 12:46
themaniac's picture

tell me about it! Those bears bear a hatred bigger than life itself. It's an oppressive force in the format. BAN TRUE BELIEVER!!

Not to mention the cost of building it... getting those leonin relic-warders will eat through your life savings like a Yule Ooze through a thanks-giving dinner...

blah classic is good for by whiffy at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 10:05
whiffy's picture

blah classic is good for those who like it, and we are gaining new players each week. were doing just fine.

Yeah this guy is OBV trolling by Cownose at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 17:22
Cownose's picture

Yeah this guy is OBV trolling on things he has no actual kowledge of. Would have ignored him, but didnt realize he was simply a troll.

I'm perfectly happy with us firing 2-4 events a week (I cant even play in that many). And since when is knowing everyone in a tourney and having an actual COMMUNITY a bad thing? I'd much rather play against people I know and respect than a bunch of random 12 year olds who wine and disconnect when things don't go their way. Thats why I dont play standard, I'd rather play a close-knit format played almost exclusively by adults.

I really don't know what this guy's problem is, what a DB

I can sympathize with some of by greyes3 at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 18:07
greyes3's picture

I can sympathize with some of what's been said here. It just doesn't make sense to me. Dump a couple hundred bucks into Standard and play DEs 3 or 4 times a day all year, or dump a couple grand into Classic and play events maybe twice a week if you're lucky. (Oh and you'll need around 7 cards dedicated to beating one deck if you want to have a chance to compete) Wizards shits on the format on a regular basis because heaven forbid Standard players decide they'd rather play Classic and not have to buy new cards as frequently. (This is coming from someone who plays each format more so than most people posting here.)

I wouldn't go as far to say by Raddman at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 18:46
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I wouldn't go as far to say he has a point, cause well anyone with half a brain will realize his posts over time have been ramblings of some basement boy caught at home with Mommy and Daddy.

However, like greyes said, I can understand some of the point. I personally play standard paper FNM's about twice a month and only because trying to find a local shop that has decent Legacy tournaments is extremely difficult (not impossible, Chicago has several within an hour from my house). I don't play std because of the new and shiney stuff he mentions, matter of fact after playing countless hours of Legacy, I find std quite boring tbh.

Once you get that taste of eternal formats like Legacy and Classic, I honestly don't think Standard can or ever will fulfill that taste in your mouth.

Paper legacy events are doing just fine, 277 players at the weekend open. Why they aren't firing online is beyond me. I don't think it has to do with hoarding, but I'm pretty sure it has everything to do with Modern. Legacy players might have sold staples to buy into Modern and since Modern hasn't taken off they either kept their modern staples to see how the format might end up or they sold them and bought into standard. I don't think many bought into Classic as I am more along the assumption that Legacy players made the transition into Classic. I know I've personally joined two Classic DE's recently.

WOTC isn't good at admitting they make mistakes, so don't look for them to admit anytime that bringing in Modern ruined Legacy. Legacy was firing events even during the Misstep era, blaming Misstep is flat out silly.

@ Alternate - seriously dude, give it a rest. Your posts are nothing more than laughable at best. If comedic entertainment is your purpose, then well done. If you are actually trying to enlightened us with your brillance, then please do us all a favor and stop posting.

havent we seen that all by themagicman_22 at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 20:20
themagicman_22's picture

havent we seen that all alternate does is complain and whine?
im fairly new to pure and in my little time i c that clearly.

He also now promotes his by Gardevi at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 21:52
Gardevi's picture

He also now promotes his youtube channel, which is pretty hilarious and I'm glad he advertises it.

I put up my youtube on posts by Alternate at Mon, 12/05/2011 - 23:32
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5

I put up my youtube on posts that are going off the front page. 99% of the time I do it for the writer solely expecting the post to be taken off the front page because most people don't read past the first page.

But hey, look who is talking, the guy who looks like he needs a year in a gym, contacts, and a haircut that looks like his mom didn't do it with a bowl on his head. Please don't talk unless you put a legit pic.

Do you know what 50% of my job is? Video Editing!!! That means that I have all the software and it's good to practice the editing on MTGO games. I can also say what other people are thinking. I don't make money off of it, so I don't care. I do enjoy when people tell me they like it, but I don't really care, I do it because it takes me 10 mnutes.

And basement boy? I had my own apartment, but I am at home because my dad shattered his shoulder and since it's his right arm I have to take care of him, so yeah, I have to be home at the moment.

But gardevi, go back to writing posts about how good WG is in ISD drafts. I am sure you are helping out masses of people.

Sorry about my picture, I'll by Gardevi at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 00:02
Gardevi's picture

Sorry about my picture, I'll go back to praising your youtube account after I go google images for dollar bills.

I was sincere about your YouTube though. Your videos are a very good way to spend an afternoon.

Wait... Did Alternate just by oraymw at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 00:49
oraymw's picture

Wait... Did Alternate just complain about your picture? Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Geez. What an amazing moron.

alternate is definitely a by this isnt the n... at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 01:06
this isnt the name i chose's picture

alternate is definitely a moron....but he is right in some ways.
Classic has trouble firing 2 events a week. Its not a successful tourney format. It is a success for casual games though. Classic fires as many, or close to as many, in the casual games room as standard does.
The difference between the huge numbers of people playing classic casually and the very few playing in tourneys can be attributed to a couple things:
1)cost. (tourney)Classic is a ridiculously expensive format. No arguing that. Yes, its mostly a one time purchase, unlike standard. But that one time purchase could buy you a used car.
2)amount of fun. Casual classic games are dominated by tribal/aggro strategies. Tourney classic games are dominated by combo/prison strategies. Yes there is aggro (hatebears, fish/merfolk), but even the aggro decks are half prison, half aggro. Having tons of LD and Counterspells played in the format does not make it enticing for most either.

Also high learning curve. by GainsBanding at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 01:56
GainsBanding's picture

Also high learning curve. Dredge isn't exactly covered at FNM.

I'm interested if anyone has by deluxeicoff at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 01:12
deluxeicoff's picture
4

I'm interested if anyone has a link to a reputable buyer of mtgo tix - to convert to real-world $.

I played M.masques sealed...fun stuff, got crap and lost right away, but I did get and sell a tanglewire for more than the tourney cost! Good times. Fun to see daze/invigorate all the time now...

http://www.mtgotraders.com/st by Paul Leicht at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 04:49
Paul Leicht's picture

http://www.mtgotraders.com/store/index.html Most reputable one I can think of off hand. :D

It's hard to get real money by Alternate at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 14:56
Alternate's picture
5

It's hard to get real money for tix with the poker accounts all shut down. I also find it risky since you give up the tickets and then expect someone to give you money for them instead of a straight trade.

I was thinking about putting about $300 in a PayPal account and trading tix for approx. 0.95 per ticket, but I don't know if that will lead to a high enough profit. I am just trying to find a way around getting tix without having to pay $0.075 in tax per USD.

And Moron or not, I take things personally, but that money is mine. It's from my facebook account. And do you think when you have a large amount of money you don't take a pic of it? It's kind of something cool that makes a nice background.

But my problem with all formats that are not STD is the lack of variations. More people playing means more variations on decks so you hopefully won't run into the same thing over and over and over. I like variation, and I like new decks. I hate when someone sees a decklist and copies it card for card. But what is also good about STD is that even if someone copies a deck card for card, they might not be good enough to play it correctly. That is why a Delver deck can beat a Ramp Run deck. While Classic/Legacy players are small but good enough to take a decklist and play it the way it's supposed to be played. It doesn't allow for much variation.

And my biggest problem with Classic/Modern/Legacy is the payout. Since these cards are more expensive, and the decks are more expensive, you don't get a good enough payout. I mean packs of M12 for a deck that costs you $4-500? It doesn't add up for me.

I would have no problem with Classic or Modern if the payout was worth it, but it isn't. Since I draft and have a playset of everything in STD (except damn Primeval Titans, never opened more than 1), making the deck doesn't really cost me anything, and the payout ends up making up for the deck and let's me draft more.

My problem isn't with the format, it's the payout. Not to mention they should release more sets to make the formats more accessible. Release Alliances so FOW goes down in price. Or keep the ME sets coming, but even then it's not worth it because there are so few cards worth it in the set.

I think if the cards were more available I think more people would be interested, but in the end, monetarily, it's just not worth it.

omg by apaulogy at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 18:18
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5

Comment threads are the best part about the internet.

Thanks, everyone.

LD in classic???? besides by themagicman_22 at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 19:58
themagicman_22's picture

LD in classic???? besides waste which is also a 4 of in most leg deck the only commonly played ld is strip

You know I am actually good by Alternate at Tue, 12/06/2011 - 23:30
Alternate's picture
5

You know I am actually good for posts. I bring up something and the commentary lights up like a firecracker. I am more charismatic than any GOP presidential candidates at the moment.

Hell, get my on your post and it will get thousands of hits. I am the JJ Abrahams of PureMTGO, haha.

I don't like arguments, I wasn't being personal (except towards whiffy because of what he said "blood sweat and tears in Magic? Seriously bro?), I was just putting up my opinion. It was when people got personal with me that I didn't take that kindly.

Btw, has anyone noticed that with the new update Wizards has locked people out of making their own game-mats. I used to have Lindsey Lohan and then when I went on a losing streak switched to Scarlett Johannson. Does anyone know a way around that?

"You know I am actually good by Raddman at Wed, 12/07/2011 - 10:14
Raddman's picture

"You know I am actually good for posts."

"You know I am actually good for trolling."

*fixed*

Game mats randomly change to by Gardevi at Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:03
Gardevi's picture

Game mats randomly change to match your opponents for reasons I haven't figured out. It's been happening like that for the longest time.