State of the Program for February 17th 2017
Further Tweaks to the GP PTQs: Wizards has announced the return of open enrollment, qualify for the Pro Tour PTQs to happen on Sundays at GPs. In a reversal, if the format of the GP is constructed, the PTQ will be sealed. If the GP is limited, the PTQ will be Standard. Wizards also tweaked entry options, etc. If you plan on playing at a GP, check it out. If not, this won’t affect you.
Online PTQ Schedule Changes: What might affect you is a change to the schedule of online PTQ preliminary events. The preliminary events will now occur on a fixed schedule, not the rotating schedule we have grudgingly accepted. Wizards announcement on this is
here. Beginning March 2nd, the following schedule will apply.
Constructed PTQ Preliminary Schedule (All Times Pacific)
· Monday: 6 p.m.
· Tuesday: 8 a.m.
· Wednesday: None
· Thursday: 10 a.m., 3 p.m., 6 p.m.
· Friday: 12 a.m. (Thursday night/Friday morning)
· Saturday: None (Constructed PTQ Finals usually scheduled this day)
· Sunday: 3 p.m.
Sealed PTQ Preliminary Schedule (All Times Pacific)
· Monday: 4 p.m.
· Tuesday: 11 a.m.
· Wednesday: None
· Thursday: 7 a.m., 4 p.m.
· Friday: None
· Saturday: 3 a.m., 12 p.m., 4 p.m., 7 p.m.
· Sunday: None (Sealed PTQ Finals usually scheduled this day)
Redemption Ends in June for Kaladesh and Aether Revolt: Just a reminder – KLD and AER redemption are on the accelerated schedule Wizards announced last year. That means that redemption for those sets ends June 7th. The redemption window for older sets is longer. See the timeline below.
This is a list of things we have been promised, or we just want to see coming back. Another good source for dates and times is the
calendar and the weekly blog, while the best source for known bugs is the bug blog which appears sporadically on MTGO.com. Most of the major upcoming events we know of are listed. Not listed, but important: Wizards offers either one or two online PTQs each weekend, with qualifiers running the three days prior to the PTQ.
Recurring Events
|
Timing
|
Power Nine Challenge
|
Last Saturday of the month, 11am Pacific
|
Legacy Challenge
|
Second Saturday of the month, 11am Pacific
|
No Downtime
|
March 15th
|
Extended Downtime
|
(none announced)
|
Magic Online Championships
|
March 3-5, on Twitch.tv/Magic
|
Aether Revolt Limited Championship Qualifiers
|
February 15th - 21st
|
Aether Revolt Standard Championship Qualifiers
|
February 22nd - 28th
|
Aether Revolt Limited Championship
|
Saturday, February 25th
|
Aether Revolt Standard Championship
|
Sunday, March 5th
|
Current Leagues End
|
May 2, 2017
|
Amonkhet
|
May 2, 2017 MTGO release
|
Hour of Devastation
|
July, 2017
|
Modern Masters 2017 Edition
|
March 23rd on MTGO
|
Next B&R Announcement
|
March 13, 2017
|
KTK and FRF Redemption Ends
|
May 31, 2017
|
DTK, ORI, BFZ and OGW Redemptions Closes
|
November 2, 2017
|
SOI and EMN Redemption Closes
|
April 28, 2018
|
KLD and AER Redemption Ends
|
June 7, 2017 (yes, 4 months from now)
|
Flashback, Throwback Standard and CUBE for 2017
Wizards will be offering either a flashback draft league, a flashback Standard gauntlet, a CUBE league or prerelease / Release events each week. Here’s the schedule so far.
Flashback and Such Rotation
|
Begins
|
Ends
|
Throwback Standard: Mirage – Tempest
|
February 22nd
|
March 1st
|
Invasion/Planeshift/Apocalypse Draft
|
March 1st
|
March 8th
|
Cube Draft (Cube format TBD)
|
March 8th
|
March 22nd
|
Modern Masters 2017 Leagues
|
March 22nd
|
April 12th
|
The new Flashback Leagues are still draft, and still you-keep-the-cards. They are 12 TIX / product plus 2 TIX / 120 Play Points. However, they are no longer single elimination. Now you play until you have three wins or two losses. Prizes are 150 play points for three wins and 70 Play points for 2 wins. The leagues run one week.
The Throwback Standard Gauntlet events provide a random choice of prebuilt decks from a past standard environment. These will function like the Pro Tour Gauntlets – you won’t need to own the cards. The entry fee is 10 TIX or 100 Play Points. Prizes are in Play Points: 150 for 3-0, 100 for 2-1, 40 for 1-2 and 10 play points as a bad beats award.
Opinion Section: My Paper Collection
|
The Madison area is great for drafts – on any given Friday a half dozen stores run FNM drafts, and several run drafts on other nights. Constructed is much less popular. Several of these stores run Standard at least once a week, but Modern is iffy and Legacy is really scarce. I have not played in a Legacy event in years, and only occasionally in a sanctioned Modern event. At the same time, I need to replace the roof on my barn and redo the kitchen. That means I need to sell some cards. I don’t really need a collection that lets me build at least the shell of every deck out there. (I don’t have all the rares and Mythics, but I did own a playset of pretty much every Modern legal common and uncommon. I also had playsets of many, many bulk rares that were unplayable in anything but the fun decks we used to build. I mean, having a couple copies of
Ramirez DePietro was useful when I needed a Dread Pirate Roberts for my Princess Bride deck, but I don’t build those anymore. At least, not in paper.
I decided to look at all the Modern decks I might actually want to play. Now I have played pretty much every deck and every archetype I have got my hands on, but there are archetypes I prefer, and those I don’t. I went through the decklists I have copied from events over the last year or so, and divide them into possibly playable, and those to avoid. I then copied all the decklists into an Excel file. A little manipulation later, I had eliminated the duplicates and had a list of cards I would need to play all the decks.
Here are the decks I was interested in playing.
Midrange control: Junk, Jund, Eldrazi Tron,
Burn: Red Deck Wins, Naya Burn,
Tron variants: GB Tron, GW Tron, Blue Tron,
Control Decks: Grixis Control, Snow Red, Nahiri Control, Jeskai Control, Abzan Control
Combo Decks: RG Through the Breach, 4 Color Scapeshift, RG Scapeshift,
And here’s the list of decks I considered and decided not to play: Affinity, Merfolk, Faeries, Infect, Death Shadow Aggro, Dredge, Boggles, Lantern Control, Hatebears, Soul Sisters / White Martyr, Mono-green Aggro, Lantern Control , UWx Midrange , Blue Moon , Gifts Control , Faeries , Reanimator, UR Gifts Storm, Pyromancers Ascension, RG Through the Breach, 8 Rack, Puresteel Paladin and Abzan Company.
I probably missed some. We will see next week. And yes, I know Through the Breach is in there twice. I have not decided. In the paper world, a playset of Through the Breach is worth over $200. Not sure it’s worth keeping – I can always play other varieties of Scapeshift.
What makes this interesting, however, is that I do not need to keep the boxes and boxes of cards I have now. To play these decks I need playsets of just under 250 cards. That’s it. The Modern card pool is tens or thousands of cards. The vast majority of them have no real value. Probably – and that can change. Most of the cards in the Puresteel Combo deck have no value outside of that one deck. You can say the same thing about half of the cards in Lantern Control. But most of you already knew this.
I am still working over the lists, but if I get them done, I may include the list here next week. In the meantime, if you know of another major Modern archetype I forgot, please mention it in the comments.
Standard: Another week, another Standard GP. GP Pittsburg was dominated by various flavors of GB – GB Energy, GB Delirium and GB Aggro. Ryan Hare’s take on GB was all about +1/+1 counters.
Modern: We have a Modern GP coming up this weekend. I will not be playing, but if I were I might try out this deck. Caleb Durward has been streaming this, and made a video over at CF. I’m not sure if this the real thing, but it would be fun to try.
Legacy: I keep thinking about getting Leovolds, in paper and online. Maybe. In the meantime, I might play something I actually own.
Vintage: The Vintage Super League has resumed. In the first week of play, we only saw one deck featuring cards from Aether Revolt, but that deck did stock a four-of. Walking Ballista was back, but I featured that last week. Here’s the one new deck from VSL.
Note: all my prices come from the fine folks at
MTGOTraders.com. These are retail prices, and generally the price of the lowest priced, actively traded version. (Prices for some rare promo versions are not updated when not in stock, so I skip those.) You can get these cards at
MTGOTraders.com web store, or from their bots: MTGOTradersBot(#) (they have bots 1-10), CardCaddy and CardWareHouse, or sell cards to MTGOTradersBuyBot(#) (they have buybots 1-4). I have bought cards from MTGOTraders for over a decade now, and have never been overcharged or disappointed.
Standard staples: Standard prices were mixed again this week. Neither the format nor prices have settled. A couple cards have fallen off the table, and a few might appear over the next few weeks.
Standard Cards
|
Price
|
Last Week
|
Change
|
% Change
|
|
$9.32
|
$10.02
|
($0.70)
|
-7%
|
|
$12.94
|
$11.58
|
$1.36
|
12%
|
|
$22.11
|
$25.55
|
($3.44)
|
-13%
|
|
$24.29
|
$26.28
|
($1.99)
|
-8%
|
|
$21.17
|
$24.97
|
($3.80)
|
-15%
|
|
$11.65
|
$11.00
|
$0.65
|
6%
|
|
$6.86
|
$9.47
|
($2.61)
|
-28%
|
|
$24.83
|
$26.36
|
($1.53)
|
-6%
|
|
$14.29
|
$11.68
|
$2.61
|
22%
|
|
$29.35
|
$29.96
|
($0.61)
|
-2%
|
|
$13.50
|
$13.02
|
$0.48
|
4%
|
|
$21.68
|
$11.51
|
$10.17
|
88%
|
|
$10.07
|
$7.53
|
$2.54
|
34%
|
|
$7.92
|
$6.65
|
$1.27
|
19%
|
|
$12.38
|
$13.97
|
($1.59)
|
-11%
|
|
$9.47
|
$7.84
|
$1.63
|
21%
|
|
$12.49
|
$11.51
|
$0.98
|
9%
|
|
$12.48
|
$13.67
|
($1.19)
|
-9%
|
|
$8.80
|
$9.50
|
($0.70)
|
-7%
|
Modern staples: Modern prices were a bit mixed, but nothing unusual. The price of lands is slowly falling. I may stop list the prices of Grove and Inkmoth Nexus.
Modern Cards
|
Price
|
Last Week
|
Change
|
% Change
|
|
$30.08
|
$33.30
|
($3.22)
|
-10%
|
|
$35.36
|
$33.16
|
$2.20
|
7%
|
|
$30.47
|
$29.69
|
$0.78
|
3%
|
|
$22.88
|
$22.95
|
($0.07)
|
0%
|
|
$44.27
|
$32.98
|
$11.29
|
34%
|
|
$26.12
|
$23.96
|
$2.16
|
9%
|
|
$35.39
|
$36.74
|
($1.35)
|
-4%
|
|
$38.62
|
$46.21
|
($7.59)
|
-16%
|
|
$26.98
|
$30.72
|
($3.74)
|
-12%
|
|
$13.52
|
$17.79
|
($4.27)
|
-24%
|
|
$22.94
|
$22.64
|
$0.30
|
1%
|
|
$14.37
|
$15.23
|
($0.86)
|
-6%
|
|
$29.71
|
$31.35
|
($1.64)
|
-5%
|
|
$78.24
|
$77.39
|
$0.85
|
1%
|
|
$38.25
|
$39.27
|
($1.02)
|
-3%
|
|
$18.16
|
$19.04
|
($0.88)
|
-5%
|
|
$24.55
|
$23.89
|
$0.66
|
3%
|
|
$23.99
|
$21.37
|
$2.62
|
12%
|
|
$44.52
|
$44.69
|
($0.17)
|
0%
|
|
$28.79
|
$28.01
|
$0.78
|
3%
|
Legacy and Vintage: Legacy and Vintage are quiet this week. A few small changes, but nothing significant. The price of true duals is falling again, but I will probably keep one the table, even if it stays well below $20.
Legacy / Vintage Cards
|
Price
|
Last Week
|
Change
|
% Change
|
|
$28.92
|
$24.48
|
$4.44
|
18%
|
|
$31.44
|
$38.95
|
($7.51)
|
-19%
|
|
$83.33
|
$79.46
|
$3.87
|
5%
|
|
$27.56
|
$30.97
|
($3.41)
|
-11%
|
|
$25.69
|
$27.51
|
($1.82)
|
-7%
|
|
$42.71
|
$46.49
|
($3.78)
|
-8%
|
|
$40.08
|
$40.23
|
($0.15)
|
0%
|
|
$26.52
|
$27.62
|
($1.10)
|
-4%
|
|
$35.34
|
$36.39
|
($1.05)
|
-3%
|
|
$34.07
|
$35.28
|
($1.21)
|
-3%
|
|
$27.78
|
$30.73
|
($2.95)
|
-10%
|
|
$35.50
|
$35.94
|
($0.44)
|
-1%
|
|
$28.92
|
$29.13
|
($0.21)
|
-1%
|
|
$35.96
|
$35.78
|
$0.18
|
1%
|
|
$19.57
|
$18.31
|
$1.26
|
7%
|
|
$32.47
|
$32.06
|
$0.41
|
1%
|
|
$171.22
|
$170.88
|
$0.34
|
0%
|
|
$55.50
|
$56.06
|
($0.56)
|
-1%
|
|
$25.82
|
$29.87
|
($4.05)
|
-14%
|
|
$47.28
|
$42.54
|
$4.74
|
11%
|
|
$31.41
|
$31.41
|
$0.00
|
0%
|
|
$12.89
|
$15.60
|
($2.71)
|
-17%
|
|
$44.21
|
$43.41
|
$0.80
|
2%
|
Set Redemption: You can redeem complete sets on MTGO. You need to purchase a redemption voucher from the store for $25. During the next downtime, Wizards removes a complete set from your account and sends you the same set in paper. Treasure Chests and the current booster packs are here because they don’t really fit anywhere else.
Complete Set
|
Price
|
Last Week
|
Change
|
% Change
|
Aether Revolt
|
$90.93
|
$103.24
|
($12.31)
|
-12%
|
Battle for Zendikar
|
$69.94
|
$69.24
|
$0.70
|
1%
|
Eldritch Moon
|
$102.20
|
$107.06
|
($4.86)
|
-5%
|
Kaladesh
|
$94.99
|
$90.00
|
$4.99
|
6%
|
Oath of the Gatewatch
|
$127.52
|
$109.19
|
$18.33
|
17%
|
Shadows over Innistrad
|
$65.34
|
$62.68
|
$2.66
|
4%
|
Treasure Chest
|
$2.68
|
$2.53
|
$0.15
|
6%
|
Aether Revolt Booster
|
$3.94
|
$4.10
|
($0.16)
|
-4%
|
Kaladesh Booster
|
$1.79
|
$1.64
|
$0.15
|
9%
|
The following is a list of all the non-promo, non-foil cards on MTGO that retail for more than $25 per card. These are the big ticket items in the world of MTGO. Still a shade over sixty cards on the list, and Black Lotus is still a tick above Liliana. Ancestral Recall is back. Some of the prices for KLD inventions and so forth are causing anomalous results. Arcbound Ravager is on this list, but not on the Modern list because the original version is only about $10.
Name
|
Set
|
Rarity
|
Price
|
Rishadan Port
|
MM
|
Rare
|
$ 171.22
|
Black Lotus
|
VMA
|
Bonus
|
$ 83.33
|
Liliana of the Veil
|
ISD
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 78.24
|
Wasteland
|
EXP
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 57.54
|
Engineered Explosives
|
MS2
|
Bonus
|
$ 56.55
|
Show and Tell
|
UZ
|
Rare
|
$ 55.50
|
Wasteland
|
TPR
|
Rare
|
$ 53.12
|
Chalice of the Void
|
MS2
|
Bonus
|
$ 52.57
|
Ensnaring Bridge
|
MS2
|
Bonus
|
$ 52.56
|
True-Name Nemesis
|
PZ1
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 50.63
|
True-Name Nemesis
|
C13
|
Rare
|
$ 47.28
|
Tarmogoyf
|
FUT
|
Rare
|
$ 46.92
|
Tarmogoyf
|
MMA
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 45.85
|
Chalice of the Void
|
MRD
|
Rare
|
$ 45.15
|
Wasteland
|
TE
|
Uncommon
|
$ 45.14
|
Tarmogoyf
|
MM2
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 44.52
|
Mox Opal
|
MS2
|
Bonus
|
$ 44.28
|
Chalice of the Void
|
MMA
|
Rare
|
$ 44.27
|
Wasteland
|
EMA
|
Rare
|
$ 44.21
|
Ensnaring Bridge
|
8ED
|
Rare
|
$ 44.01
|
Ensnaring Bridge
|
7E
|
Rare
|
$ 43.00
|
Exploration
|
UZ
|
Rare
|
$ 42.71
|
Oblivion Stone
|
MS2
|
Bonus
|
$ 41.24
|
Food Chain
|
MM
|
Rare
|
$ 40.08
|
Mox Opal
|
SOM
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 39.58
|
Unmask
|
MM
|
Rare
|
$ 38.68
|
Ensnaring Bridge
|
ST
|
Rare
|
$ 38.62
|
Mox Opal
|
MM2
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 38.25
|
Engineered Explosives
|
5DN
|
Rare
|
$ 36.16
|
Misdirection
|
MM
|
Rare
|
$ 35.96
|
Leovold, Emissary of Trest
|
PZ2
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 35.50
|
Engineered Explosives
|
MMA
|
Rare
|
$ 35.39
|
Batterskull
|
NPH
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 35.36
|
From the Ashes
|
C13
|
Rare
|
$ 35.34
|
Gaea's Cradle
|
UZ
|
Rare
|
$ 34.07
|
Mox Sapphire
|
VMA
|
Bonus
|
$ 32.47
|
Scalding Tarn
|
EXP
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 32.45
|
Back to Basics
|
UZ
|
Rare
|
$ 31.44
|
Unmask
|
V16
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 31.41
|
Blood Moon
|
9ED
|
Rare
|
$ 31.35
|
Blood Moon
|
MMA
|
Rare
|
$ 30.85
|
Ancestral Vision
|
DD2
|
Rare
|
$ 30.53
|
Blood Moon
|
8ED
|
Rare
|
$ 30.47
|
Karn Liberated
|
MM2
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 30.17
|
Ancestral Vision
|
TSP
|
Rare
|
$ 30.08
|
Karn Liberated
|
NPH
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 29.71
|
Liliana, the Last Hope
|
EMN
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 29.35
|
Force of Will
|
MED
|
Rare
|
$ 29.27
|
Containment Priest
|
PZ1
|
Rare
|
$ 29.13
|
Ancestral Recall
|
VMA
|
Bonus
|
$ 28.92
|
Meren of Clan Nel Toth
|
PZ1
|
Rare
|
$ 28.92
|
Voice of Resurgence
|
DGM
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 28.79
|
Infernal Tutor
|
DIS
|
Rare
|
$ 27.78
|
Containment Priest
|
C14
|
Rare
|
$ 27.56
|
Force of Will
|
EMA
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 27.06
|
Griselbrand
|
AVR
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 26.98
|
Force of Will
|
VMA
|
Rare
|
$ 26.52
|
Eidolon of the Great Revel
|
JOU
|
Rare
|
$ 26.12
|
Tangle Wire
|
NE
|
Rare
|
$ 25.82
|
Doomsday
|
WL
|
Rare
|
$ 25.69
|
Horizon Canopy
|
EXP
|
Mythic Rare
|
$ 25.38
|
Arcbound Ravager
|
MS2
|
Bonus
|
$ 25.17
|
Wurmcoil Engine
|
MS2
|
Bonus
|
$ 25.11
|
The big number is the retail price of a playset (4 copies) of every card available on MTGO. Assuming you bought the least expensive versions available, the cost of owning a playset of every card on MTGO is $ 23,745. That is down $315 from last week.
I have played in a couple single game draft leagues. I still haven’t figured this out. The deck that I thought was pure garbage ended up winning seven matches, while the deck I thought was great is going to have to run really well to just earn points.
PRJ
“One Million Words” and “3MWords” on MTGO
This series is an ongoing tribute to Erik “Hamtastic” Friborg.
HammyBot Super Sale: HammyBot was set up to sell off Erik Friborg’s collection, with all proceeds going to his wife and son. So far, HammyBot has raised over $8,000, but there are a lot of cards left in the collection. Those cards are being sold at MTGOTrader’s Buy Price.
23 Comments
Talked with Pete Jahn on the street the other day and he said he agreed the combat shortcut straight to opponent having priority before declare attackers is wrong and that the mtr is in conflict with the cr on this. And since the cr has higher authority than the mtr the pro tour judges were wrong in Dublin two weeks ago.
Fake News or Alternative Facts? Maybe both?
In re: modern decks, not sure if it is a REAL deck but Turns is a deck that's been around for a bit.
Turns is great.
Last development now is that Pete Jahn has contacted wotc about the collusion and bribery rules/politics. Rules are horribly wrong Pete says/said, and he says wotc has used him to legitimize the rules and judge practices for years without him being aware of how wrong that was.
In addition Pete now says he will also look back at things he has said about gambling and wotc/mtg/tournament scenes.
- it has dawned on me lately that wotc lies through their teeth on any occasion that that they have used volunteer affiliates on a grand scale to convey/carry through their lies.
What are you going on about?
If you have followed recent State of the Program comments, Hearts has had similar nonsensical rantings. At this point it would probably just be best to ignore.
Well, I mean I obviously follow them. :D I'm just trying to figure out why recently. Hearts has been ok for the most part. Just a turn recently is all :/
One of the things that Pete f.ex wrote was this, but he didnt know it was wrong when he wrote it (probably because wotc said it was good stuff and that Pete would be a nice person to write/say it for them);
Lisa plays mtg (swiss part/many matches/players) against Jacob.
Jacob asks if Lisa wants to concede to him. They talk and think and then Lisa concedes to Jacob. Later that night Jacob goes over to Lisa and gives her some boosters. lalala....
This is not collusion (Pete Jahn wrote).
...
We all know that one should not write like this, and we know that Pete wrote it without thinking, wotc deceived him to do it.
But can you prove that it is collusion? Because without knowing the details of said conversation, it's not collusion?
Can you prove the opposite ?
What is the concept with stories with random persons/names ?
No I can't prove the opposite, but I'm not the one that is making the claim that collusion happened.
Also, as the content manager of PureMtgo.com I can say this with honesty, at no point in the past nearly ten years I have been here, has anyone from WotC approached me or Heath in regards to "publishing a message" or "getting their information out" We are not a propaganda arm of Wizards of the Coast, and have always operated as a community site.
We do work with WotC, we ran contests in the pasts for theme decks and get preview cards, but if you've read anything I've written, or others on the site, that working relationship is not compliant of us not voicing criticisms of the company or the client. We're not tools of WotC in any way.
Can confirm, I have been critical of WotC in past articles and have not been told to stop or shut up about it.
Comparing Pete Jahn to other writers on PureMTGO is ... non valid.
Pete Jahn has been a Judge and Mtg writer since mid 90s, and rather high profile at that.
Other articles at Puremtgo are barely read or commented, much lower attendance.
Uh...I have too? It's quite valid.
We're not in a contest among writers for the "most views" or "most comments" Most of our feedback comes from Reddit, Facebook, or Twitter now.
We are providing a platform for their voice. That's what we do.
Pete is not part of the magic Illuminati, what you think is collusion is actually not collusion, and I think it's best if we all just move on from this.
...
Have a good one Hearts, thanks for stopping by the site!
You are (trying to be) dismissive on the net, that is pathetic.
He's not. He's been polite to you thus far and you responded with "...", which comes across as passive aggressive.
As far as collusion goes, there's insufficient evidence to conclude that it's collusion. It sounds fishy and would warrant an investigation, but you can't prove for sure it's one or the other. Unless you can connect the boosters with the concession, you can't say it is or it isn't.
Do you understand the difference between fictional and non-fictional literature ?
Ironically I was wondering if you understood the difference between what YOU believe and provable facts. How coincidental that you asked that of him a little less directly.
Let's look at some different statements:
a) Joe concedes to Sue. Provable, they both signed the sheet and it is in the tourney record.
b) Joe and Sue are friends. Also provable because of seeing how they interact with each other. Observable proof is easily available and other people can corroborate with positive testimony.
c) Joe conceded to Sue because Sue is planning to reward Joe later even though neither person ever said a word about rewards, packs or otherwise giving compensation for the act of concession.
a and b are provable facts.
c) is not a provable fact. In order to prove it you would have to get them to confess to it or have witnesses to their conversation about it.
If both Mike and Pete heard Joe say to Sue before their match or during their match: "Hey I am going to concede to you, give me some x packs later" and also heard Sue say "OK Joe, sounds fair." Or some other similar conversation, that's corroborated evidence (the two witnesses independently back each others' statements up.)
What you do have is supposition. You can conjecture about motive and probability and human nature and "how things work" but none of that adds up to c) being factually provable. You believe it to be true and you have experiential evidence to help you make that belief in your head but you don't have proof. So you can't claim it as a fact. Just because no one else can disprove it does not make it so.
Even if you take the next statement into account:
d) Joe walks into the store the next day bragging about the great swag he cracked the night before FROM packs he got from Sue.
you can't prove c with that. You could maybe should be suspicious if d) occurs but you still can't prove what you're trying to prove. You need a) witnesses b) a confession c) some other method of collecting evidence (such as catching the whole thing on camera.) Hope this helps.
No, I'm really trying to be polite. I intended to end the interaction, and I thanked you for coming by the site.
That's it.
Nice post Paul, I agree with you 100%.
Since Hearts is taking some time to respond, can I try to respond on his behalf by saying:
"All conjecture. Doesn't prove anything". "..."