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By: hamtastic, Erik Friborg
Nov 19 2010 12:44am
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Editorial Section:
First and foremost, if you're an MTGO tournament players, I STRONGLY advise you and your friends weigh in on this MTGO PE Survey thread.  I'll link it again later, but this is a very important thread for anyone who plays Premier Events, used to play, or will possibly play in them soon!

Now, with that out of the way, we can move on the actual editorial section and the grab bag of topics that have come up this past week.  

Lastly, we'll be thinking a bit about the upcoming Master's Edition 4 stuff.  It appears that the set has been posted up to gatherer, but is missing 9 cards despite all the rares accounted for... which might, hopefully, be some hidden Mythic thing... we hope.  Here's the list(in case it gets taken down by tomorrow):

Alaborn Musketeer White C
Alaborn Trooper White C
Angelic Voices White U
Argivian Blacksmith White U
Armageddon White R
Balance White R
Blaze of Glory White U
Champion Lancer White R
Conversion White R
Divine Offering White C
Dust to Dust White U
Eye for an Eye White R
Harsh Justice White R
Healing Salve White C
Island Sanctuary White R
Just Fate White C
Kismet White R
Leeches White R
Martyr's Cry White R
Martyrs of Korlis White U
Osai Vultures White C
Personal Incarnation White R
Righteous Charge White C
Savannah Lions White U
Serra Angel White U
Serra Aviary White U
Serra Bestiary White C
Spotted Griffin White C
Steam Catapult White R
Swords to Plowshares White U
Temple Acolyte White C
Veteran Bodyguard White R
White Knight White U
Wild Aesthir White C
Wild Griffin White C
Acid Rain Blue R
Air Elemental Blue U
Animate Artifact Blue U
Blue Elemental Blast Blue U
Braingeyser Blue R
Cloud Dragon Blue R
Cloud Spirit Blue C
Control Magic Blue R
Copy Artifact Blue R
Counterspell Blue C
Drain Power Blue R
Drowned Blue C
Energy Flux Blue U
False Summoning Blue C
Giant Tortoise Blue C
In the Eye of Chaos Blue R
Mahamoti Djinn Blue R
Mystic Decree Blue U
Owl Familiar Blue C
Phantasmal Forces Blue C
Phantasmal Terrain Blue C
Power Artifact Blue R
Prodigal Sorcerer Blue U
Reconstruction Blue C
Sea Serpent Blue C
Serendib Djinn Blue R
Sleight of Hand Blue C
Soldevi Machinist Blue U
Stasis Blue R
Symbol of Unsummoning Blue C
Talas Researcher Blue U
Theft of Dreams Blue U
Thing from the Deep Blue R
Transmute Artifact Blue R
Water Elemental Blue U
Black Knight Black U
Cyclopean Mummy Black C
Dakmor Plague Black U
Dark Ritual Black C
Deathgrip Black R
Demonic Hordes Black R
Demonic Tutor Black R
Dread Reaper Black R
Dread Wight Black U
Ebon Dragon Black R
Foul Spirit Black C
Gate to Phyrexia Black U
Gloom Black R
Gravebind Black C
Guardian Beast Black R
Hasran Ogress Black C
Howl from Beyond Black C
Junún Efreet Black U
Lich Black R
Lim-Dûl's Cohort Black C
Minion of Tevesh Szat Black R
Overwhelming Forces Black R
Prowling Nightstalker Black C
Rain of Daggers Black R
Scavenging Ghoul Black U
Sengir Vampire Black U
Sinkhole Black R
Soul Shred Black C
Terror Black C
Warp Artifact Black C
Weakness Black C
Wicked Pact Black U
Word of Command Black R
Xenic Poltergeist Black U
Zombie Master Black U
Aladdin Red R
Ali from Cairo Red R
Artifact Blast Red C
Atog Red C
Bird Maiden Red C
Detonate Red U
Devastation Red R
Fire Imp Red U
Fire Tempest Red R
Fireball Red U
Fork Red R
Goblin Bully Red C
Goblin Cavaliers Red C
Goblin Caves Red C
Goblin Firestarter Red C
Goblin General Red U
Goblin Shrine Red C
Goblin Warrens Red U
Gorilla War Cry Red C
Last Chance Red R
Lava Flow Red C
Mijae Djinn Red R
Ogre Taskmaster Red C
Orcish Mechanics Red U
Primitive Justice Red U
Red Elemental Blast Red U
Roc of Kher Ridges Red U
Rock Hydra Red R
Rockslide Ambush Red C
Sedge Troll Red R
Shivan Dragon Red R
Smoke Red R
Thunder Dragon Red R
Two-Headed Giant of Foriys Red U
Wheel of Fortune Red R
Alluring Scent Green C
Argothian Pixies Green C
Argothian Treefolk Green U
Bee Sting Green U
Channel Green R
Citanul Druid Green C
Crumble Green C
Cyclone Green R
Deathcoil Wurm Green R
Drop of Honey Green R
Elite Cat Warrior Green C
Fastbond Green R
Fog Green C
Force of Nature Green R
Gaea's Avenger Green U
Giant Growth Green C
Instill Energy Green U
Ironhoof Ox Green C
Kudzu Green U
Lifeforce Green R
Living Lands Green R
Radjan Spirit Green U
Regrowth Green R
Sandstorm Green C
Scarwood Bandits Green R
Scavenger Folk Green C
Southern Elephant Green C
Squall Green U
Sylvan Tutor Green U
Titania's Song Green R
Tsunami Green R
War Mammoth Green C
Whiptail Wurm Green U
Wild Ox Green U
Wood Elemental Green R
Aesthir Glider
Al-abara's Carpet
Alchor's Tomb
Amulet of Kroog
Armageddon Clock
Ashnod's Altar
Basalt Monolith
Book of Rass
Bottle of Suleiman
Brass Man
Bronze Horse
Candelabra of Tawnos
Celestial Sword
Clay Statue
Clockwork Avian
Clockwork Gnomes
Clockwork Swarm
Colossus of Sardia
Coral Helm
Cyclopean Tomb
Diabolic Machine
Dragon Engine
Ebony Horse
Ebony Rhino
Floodwater Dam
Flying Carpet
Gauntlet of Might
Glasses of Urza
Grapeshot Catapult
Horn of Deafening
Ice Cauldron
Icy Manipulator
Jade Monolith
Kormus Bell
Library of Leng
Living Wall
Mana Matrix
Mana Vault
Naked Singularity
Obelisk of Undoing
Obsianus Golem
Pentagram of the Ages
Planar Gate
Primal Clay
Ring of Renewal
Sol Ring
Soldevi Golem
Staff of Zegon
Tablet of Epityr
Tawnos's Wand
Tawnos's Weaponry
Time Vault
Triassic Egg
Urza's Chalice
Urza's Miter
Vibrating Sphere
Yotian Soldier
City of Brass
Elephant Graveyard
Library of Alexandria
Maze of Ith
Mishra's Workshop
Strip Mine
Tropical Island
Underground Sea
Urza's Mine
Urza's Mine
Urza's Mine
Urza's Mine
Urza's Power Plant
Urza's Power Plant
Urza's Power Plant
Urza's Power Plant
Urza's Tower
Urza's Tower
Urza's Tower
Urza's Tower
Volcanic Island

Cards of Discussion:
Channel -
Joshua will be taking over this discussion point, since hammy left it blank.  Channel is one of my favorite cards.  I know that it has been on MTGO before, in the FT V Exiled set, but looking at the art for this card reminds me of a time when things were much easier.  I remember playing with friends at the lunch table before school started and blowing them out with Channel Fireball deck.  *sighs*  To be young again!  

Armageddon -
Being as this already exists, I suspect that this will fall a bit lower for a while, being as we're about to get a lot more of them back into the system.  On top of that... there aren't a lot of decks that really need a lot of these.  Expect these to fall a bit lower and stay low.

All 10 Duals -
Good idea.  These are necessary to Legacy, Classic and Vintage.  I've already seen a complaint about cheapening the value of MED2 and 3.  Which is completely valid.... and there are already enough problems with getting people into eternal formats on MTGO... high price dual lands is not another one we need.  And for the record, I have a set of all of them, and I'm perfectly okay with them dropping in price if it means that MTGO eternal formats have just that much more of a chance of getting new players.

Balance -
Not really 'hard' to get now, but better access to a card like this is a good thing.  

Fastbond -
A new addition to MTGO with MED 4, and a powerful, powerful card in many formats.  Restricted in Vintage and banned in Legacy... so powerful and so combo-licious!  

Fork -
Another new addition to the game with MED4, with the new Reverberate card, the old school Fork lost a lot of its potency for AWESOME!!! But it's still a great addition to MTGO.  Commander gets another solid Red copy effect.  Good stuff.

Mishra's Workshop -
Banned in Legacy, legal in Vintage/Classic.  I expect the same to happen on MTGO's Banned and restricted lists.  The card is potent and powerful, and has moved metagames singlehandedly.  I expect nothing less on MTGO.

Regrowth -
Speaking of Combos... Regrowth loves them!  An EDH/Commander staple and a ridiculous effect for the cost.  This was the Eternal Witness of the game before Eternal Witness showed up... and that one Green mana can and does make a difference the older and older the format you're playing in.  

Sol Ring -
This already exists thanks to the From the Vault set, but it's nice to have a non-super-foil-new art version in the system.  There will be a lot of people hunting for these due to the nostalgia factor of the original art.  

Sylvan Tutor -
An extra worldly tutor is awesome for singleton deck formats and just to have another option in older formats.  Nothing crazy, just a great redundant effect for fun formats.

Time Vault -
The opposite of the above Sylvan Tutor... this guy is uber-strong combo guy all over the place.  He kept getting errata-broke and errata-fixed in the past... now he's just crazy good in some strange combo-licous decks.

Word of Command -
I'm kind of surprised to see this guy in here... such a strange card and a weird ability...  the last weird card they tried to shoe horn into a MED set was Chains of Mephistophophostophostopholes.  Or whatever.  And that was broken for pretty much a year or two... I think.  It's all kind of fuzzy now..  Just know that Word of Command won't pose as many issues as Chains did... but I do expect there to be issues at first with this ability.  Just a guess.

Card Price Discussion:
Null Rod decided to hippity hoppity up up up this week.  Not sure why, exactly, but probably on speculation of the Power 9, since it succinctly hoses them if you play it turn one or two.  Jace, oh Jace... you suck.  Moving on.  Primeval and Grave titan move up a bit, thanks to ramp decks getting more and more popular, I guess.

The only really big dropping card was Ajani Vengeant... and he tanked HARD.  Not sure why... he's still solid in Extended.  As much as he was last week, anyway.  Not sure what just happened there.  

Card Price Tables:

Card This Week Last Week Value Change Percentage Change
Null Rod 26 21 5 23.81%
"Jace, the Mind Sculptor" 97.5 94.95 2.55 2.69%
Primeval Titan 36.5 34.75 1.75 5.04%
Grave Titan 12.95 11.5 1.45 12.61%
Sword of Body and Mind 5.95 4.75 1.2 25.26%
"Venser, the Sojourner" 13.95 12.75 1.2 9.41%
Tezzeret the Seeker 5.5 4.5 1 22.22%
Lotus Cobra 20.95 19.95 1 5.01%
Gaea's Cradle 12.75 11.75 1 8.51%
Maelstrom Pulse 5.75 4.75 1 21.05%
Card This Week Last Week Value Change Percentage Change
Ranger of Eos 1.75 0.8 0.95 118.75%
Myr Battlesphere 1.5 0.95 0.55 57.89%
Knight of the Reliquary 3.95 2.95 1 33.90%
Khalni Hydra 2.95 2.25 0.7 31.11%
Grand Architect 1.95 1.5 0.45 30.00%
Dark Tutelage 0.9 0.7 0.2 28.57%
Defiler of Souls 1.15 0.9 0.25 27.78%
Sword of Body and Mind 5.95 4.75 1.2 25.26%
Obstinate Baloth 1 0.8 0.2 25.00%
Null Rod 26 21 5 23.81%
Card This Week Last Week Value Change Percentage Change
Ajani Vengeant 7.5 20 -12.5 -62.50%
Koth of the Hammer 19.5 21.95 -2.45 -11.16%
Molten_Tail Masticore 11.5 13.95 -2.45 -17.56%
Stoneforge Mystic 7.5 9.5 -2 -21.05%
All Is Dust 13.25 14.75 -1.5 -10.17%
Eternal Witness 3.75 5 -1.25 -25.00%
Price of Progress 4.5 5.5 -1 -18.18%
Creeping Tar Pit 4.75 5.5 -0.75 -13.64%
Mimic Vat 2.75 3.5 -0.75 -21.43%
Eye of Ugin 2.25 2.95 -0.7 -23.73%
Card This Week Last Week Value Change Percentage Change
Ajani Vengeant 7.5 20 -12.5 -62.50%
Tunnel Ignus 0.4 0.6 -0.2 -33.33%
Leonin Arbiter 0.4 0.6 -0.2 -33.33%
Wall of Reverence 0.5 0.7 -0.2 -28.57%
Ball Lightning 0.6 0.8 -0.2 -25.00%
Magma Jet 0.75 1 -0.25 -25.00%
Eternal Witness 3.75 5 -1.25 -25.00%
Eye of Ugin 2.25 2.95 -0.7 -23.73%
Darkslick Shores 1.15 1.5 -0.35 -23.33%
Wild Mongrel 0.5 0.65 -0.15 -23.08%

Card Price Charts:
null rod chart
"jace, the mind sculptor" chart
primeval titan chart
grave titan chart
sword of body and mind chart
"venser, the sojourner" chart
tezzeret the seeker chart
lotus cobra chart
gaea's cradle chart
maelstrom pulse chart
ranger of eos chart
myr battlesphere chart
knight of the reliquary chart
khalni hydra chart
grand architect chart
dark tutelage chart
defiler of souls chart
sword of body and mind chart
obstinate baloth chart
null rod chart
ajani vengeant chart
koth of the hammer chart
molten_tail masticore chart
stoneforge mystic chart
all is dust chart
eternal witness chart
price of progress chart
creeping tar pit chart
mimic vat chart
eye of ugin chart
ajani vengeant chart
tunnel ignus chart
leonin arbiter chart
wall of reverence chart
ball lightning chart
magma jet chart
eternal witness chart
eye of ugin chart
darkslick shores chart
wild mongrel chart


Those missing cards are alt by protocol_7 at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 02:22
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Those missing cards are alt art Urzatron. You just listed 269/269 cards.

Hi Erik, I always read you, by DemonsAndWizards at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 02:41
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Hi Erik, I always read you, but this time my jaw dropped instantly. I have just purchased all the duals but Tropicals and Undergound Seas, because they were too expensive. The average cost was 12 to 15 for every dual, 21 for savannahs and 26 for tundras. How much have am I going to loose?? :(

You only lose if you sell by FierceTable at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 02:53
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You only lose if you sell them right now. If you bought them to play with, you've lost nothing. The only thing I'm terribly sad about is that I found a bot offering 24 for an extra Taiga I had, but it wanted a bunch of extra crap. By the time I got rid of the extra cards the offer was gone :'(

Sadly probably 5 tix off the by Nik83 at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 02:54
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Sadly probably 5 tix off the 12-15 ticket duals, as much as 10-15 tix off of savannahs/tundras...

I'm bummed today too man...=/

Pre this news, approx prices by dotstar at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 04:23
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Pre this news, approx prices for Multi's were

Seas 39
Tundra 28
Taiga 27
Savannah (this is an odd one - a while ago was 15) 21
Plateau 14
Badlands 13
Tropical Island 26
Volcanic Island 14
Scrubland 12
Bayou 13

Baneslayer Angel is a reprint went from 30 for a M10 to 10 for a M11 for an example of a reprint effect. Whether multi's will see this (and for how long) is the question a lot will wait to see next year.

Granted this is a approximate average - MTG has prices which move constantly. Already prices have fallen 4 tix or so on most of the upper priced ones. Expect them to be the big losers if any.

Today was a sad day for us by greyes3 at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 03:13
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Today was a sad day for us MTGOers.

Fork was already online as a by GainsBanding at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 03:23
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Fork was already online as a promo... But how about Wheel of Fortune. Get your Liliana's Caress decks ready. Or Mana Vault. Or Overwhelming Forces for Timmy in the casual room. There are a lot of exciting cards in this set. But of course I must follow that with "but it doesn't have power."

it does have 9 mysterious by StealthBadger at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 05:19
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it does have 9 mysterious unspoiled cards!

I guess it doesn't, so the 12 by Nagarjuna at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 06:24
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I guess it doesn't, so the 12 art versions of the urzas lands fix the total count of cards.

boo.......... by StealthBadger at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 07:47
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Yeah, the 9 "missing" cards by GainsBanding at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 06:31
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Yeah, the 9 "missing" cards are the alternate art for the Urzas lands (4 each in antiquities). This was confirmed by a twitter post from a wizards employee today.

I can't wait for the first by NetHwarang at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 07:06
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I can't wait for the first idiot to play Stasis + Seedborn Muse on multiplayer games. (Will it be me? X-D)

Other than that, i'm worried about the workshop and what will it do to the classic meta.

But besides of those, the set is full of fun casual cards.

Opponent I choose you! word of command!

stasis + seedborn muse by caterpillar at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 12:15
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Stasis: players don't have an untap step
Seedborn Muse: untap your permanents during each other players' untap

In other words, the "combo" doesn't work.

Stasis + Forsaken City works
Stasis + Mind Over Matter works
Stasis + BoP + Instill Energy works (same set, barring the Birds)
Stasis + Chronatog works

Add Root Maze, Frozen AEther or Loxodon Gatekeeper to any of these to complete the lock.

Woopsy-Daisy by NetHwarang at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 07:41
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ups. I was so sure that the muse said upkeep.

But my point still stands, why oh why did they have to unleash that card onto the casual hordes?

OMG!! Is there really no way by Orgion at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 07:33
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OMG!! Is there really no way to destroy an enchantment in the set?!?!
A quick search seems to indicate: two rare ways to prohibit them being played, and two uncommon ways to destroy them if they're red or blue (plus one way to change the colour of something - if it's yours!). and that's all to see folks.

Man.. Goblin warrens is going to be awesome!

Yup, I noticed that, too.. No by GainsBanding at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 09:32
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Yup, I noticed that, too.. No way to destroy enchantments. So watch out, I'm gonna ping you with Warp Artifact and finish you off with Cyclone!

woo they printin leeches by boel at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 08:49
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wooooo leeches

take that infect...


cuz erryone runnin legacy infect

praps useful against skittles in edh though.

Leeches by NetHwarang at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 07:53
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Well, it is a sexy burning wish target at a FFA table, it's bound to get some smiles.

Ok. I have no problem with by gimlicolby at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 09:02
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Ok. I have no problem with them reprinting duals. It helps players get into the format. I am trying to reenter the format after a 2 year hiatus. Last night I picked up a pair of tropical islands for 20 each and daze for 8 each (before i heard about the reprinting). This set will help me out.

Now that being said....WHY WASNT FOW REPRINTED? So that want a bunch of new players for legacy but at the moment have to spend $300 on a playset of FOW's if they can find them. WOTC must want FOW to hit $150. If they had reprinted FOW this would of been a homerun for the new player looking to get into legacy.

The example of Baneslayer reprinting is really not accurate. Right now Baneslayer Angel has no real deck. I think that is the reason for the low cost now. If tomorrow the best deck in standard had Baneslayer Angel in it then you would see the price climb and climb. The duals on the other hand are used in every deck. SO their playability will never be a factor. I think and this is my opinion only...Undergournd Sea will be $30, Tundra and Tropical Island $20. The rest around $9-$12.

P.S. I really want sinkhole!

I'm excited for this. I am by SamuelBeckett at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 09:46
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I'm excited for this. I am going to draft this set a lot, something I've never done for a master's edition set before. I've wanted to get into legacy for a while and hopefully this set will be what can ease the pain of getting the duals.

Also, there is something wrong with your Ajani Vengeant data because I'm pretty sure at no time last week was he trading for 20 tickets. If anything, I'd say he gained about a ticket to hit the 7.50 mark. And if you look at his price chart there is clearly something wrong there.

2 weeks ago I got 3x Ajani by Paul Leicht at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 11:38
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2 weeks ago I got 3x Ajani Vengeant here for 15 so its really off.

Its the promo that this by Flippers_Giraffe at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 14:04
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Its the promo that this refers to.

Best thing to happen for me by Cruel_Hellraiser at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 11:39
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Best thing to happen for me on MTGO, original art Sengir Vampire and Demonic Tutor. Cannot wait.

I'm happy to see Atog at by smack8001 at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 12:51
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I'm happy to see Atog at common for pauper affinity decks.

Conversion - Rare, why? The original was uncommon and it's just as bad. I don't like setting fire to four dollars.

Leeches - Rare. At least you won't see this card often in draft. That's good because it can't be used in a draft of this set: zero poison creatures.

It seems like each color has 2-3 rares that will see play after the draft is over, most of which are restricted. The other colored rares are junk. The Lands color is the big winner; maze, 10 duals, workshop.

Except for Balance and Armageddon, the white rares are universally horrible.

Green has fastbond and regrowth.

Red has Wheel and Fork.

Black has Sinkhole, tutor, and a few kitchen table fun cards (hordes, word of command).

Blue has Stasis and Serendib.

Berserk - not reprinted. Still only available from FTV: E.

Sorrow's Path - not reprinted. We can be thankful for that.

>>Berserk - not reprinted. by Paul Leicht at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 13:49
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>>Berserk - not reprinted. Still only available from FTV: E.<<
And the early ME sets.

Everything I wanted to see by JustSin at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 12:33
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Everything I wanted to see here was here and more, personally I feel this set seems a lot better then the previous MEs, but I agree after seeing the reprint of the dual lands it seems a mistake to have left FoW off

my wish list for ME5: Jeweled Bird ggkthx

Never will see the ante cards by Paul Leicht at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 12:37
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Never will see the ante cards I am afraid.

A guy can always dream right? by JustSin at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 13:28
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A guy can always dream right?

My wish is Equinox..... by Rerepete at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 23:25
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My wish is Equinox.....

ME4 will be great for the by ArchGenius at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 12:51
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ME4 will be great for the casual Legacy/Classic players because of the reprinting of the dual lands. If the power 9 was reprinted, I doubt they would leave them unbanned in 100 singleton or classic tribal. I think this will be great for 100 singleton because it will lower the main cost of entry into the format for any deck other than mono-colored weenie decks.

I must admit that this is pretty bad news for tournament spikes who want classic to turn into Vintage.

Yep, I'm bummed >.< by Westane at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 12:58
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Yep, I'm bummed >.<

It Seems by Lythand at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 13:04
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It seems that it depends on which side of the fence you are on when it comes to the reprint of the Duals. IF you already have them, you are sad, while those who don't have them or the ones they need are happy to see a reprint.

I just don't understand this by Lord Erman at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 13:25
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I just don't understand this way of thinking. Those who own the duals are the ones who play Classic and Legacy. And surely they want more new faces joining their ranks. And when some expensive cards get reprinted and become available to the masses, they become... sad? Really?

You can't say "Hey join Legacy it's so much fun!" and then get sad because more people will be able to join Legacy. That's absurd!

Or do I get it all wrong? Do they want to be left alone? Do they want that Legacy and Classic remain as a "Club for the Privileged"? If that's the case, then yeah, today is definitely a bad day.

But otherwise they should be happy that at least some of the cards that prevent people from playing Legacy will be available to more players. More affordable cards = more new faces. And that's a good thing, right?


Without FOWs reprints, the by protocol_7 at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 13:52
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Without FOWs reprints, the overall cost is not going to change anyway. For every dollar you save on the duals, FOWs is going to sky rocket. Especially, if new players are introduced.

funny thing there is that by ShardFenix at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 00:47
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funny thing there is that force is not required for legacy nor is it needed for all decks. whereas its a given fact that all non mono decks function better with dual lands. So the price of force only affects people that want to play those decks. personally i would never play force so legacy for me just got cheaper.

I'm with Eman and ShardFenix by NetHwarang at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 07:48
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I'm with Eman and ShardFenix on this one. I almost exclusively play multiplayer formats.

Is it wrong that I want to build a 5 color white based deck using tithe and knight of the white orchid?

what about people wanting to play prismatic, singleton or commander?

Not everyone wants the duals for competitive play, and even then, not everyone wants to play control strategies.

I don't understand that "lost by JustSin at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 09:48
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I don't understand that "lost value" complaint I keep hearing from people. Last night watching a game with a dude and his foil duals complaining about lost value. Let's be honest here people it is only lost value if you were using them as a constant good, ie buying and reselling them constantly. Honestly you're going to be using them to play with and not resell whether they were reprinted or not. You're talking about lost value when you decide to sell your collection at some mythical point in time in the future if it ever does come and by then the prices could have changed due to any number of other factors.

Well perceived lost value in by Paul Leicht at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 12:49
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Well perceived lost value in people's minds equates the actual lost value. Because they used to have those lands smug in the certainty that if they decided to get out or revamp their collection to do something else they could sell off those duals for the premium prices they were at. Now they don't have that confidence and also a free license to gripe about losses (valid though it is) is never wasted.

I know, just like all those by MMogg at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 16:58
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I know, just like all those people whining about their homes losing their value when the housing bubble burst. If they don't plan on moving, who cares if its value tanked. [/sarcasm] Really, though, I think people do have a right to be unhappy, primarily for reasons Paul mentioned above. Take yourself, JustSin, as an example. I'm sure you didn't foresee/expect/want to sell off your collection several months ago, but things change, and the real loss of liquidity in one's collection may be important in the future even for those not planning to sell today.

@Paul: don't you realize how by JustSin at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 17:57
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@Paul: don't you realize how ridiculous that sounds? perceived becomes actual? i believe something to be true therefore it is?

@MMogg: The oddity of the game is that these cards are the same as a house or stocks, they are an investment and prices don't stay stable, they change. There is no such thing as a sure investment. Where this differs from your "joke" about housing is that there is an additional obtained value to the cards because its a game and if you sell them you get monetary value and when you hold them they have play value, which can't really be numerically assigned.

"Well perceived lost value in by Paul Leicht at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 18:09
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"Well perceived lost value in people's minds equates the actual lost value." <---what I said. In people's minds is not an empty phrase. It modifies something. As in
"In people's minds this equates the actual lost value."

Find something better to do with your time than miscomprehend what is perfectly clear if you just take the time to parse it.

Lets put the claws away :P by gimlicolby at Sat, 11/20/2010 - 18:23
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Lets put the claws away :P

defensive much? by JustSin at Sun, 11/21/2010 - 00:52
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defensive much?

No by Katastrophe at Sun, 11/21/2010 - 21:27
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(@Paul) Paul made perfect sense and you were rude. A perceived loss is when you know your assets have lost value. But the loss isn't realized until you actually sell it for less and actually report to the IRS that you lost money. He didn't make those words up.

I still like your articles. :)

i understand they are real by JustSin at Sun, 11/21/2010 - 21:31
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i understand they are real words and you misunderstand when you assume tone of voice to text, there was nothing rude about my comment merely what i saw as an ironic sidebar

Some event prize structures by ArchGenius at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 13:52
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Some event prize structures encourage this type of attitude. It's really kind of sad.

The weekend challenges in particular encourage the player base to get just enough players to make it fire, but every player after the minimum number simply dilutes the prizes. This gets really hairy with the top 8 style of events where people are always losing out on prizes due to tiebreaker points. Not to mention that a 6+ hour tournament with a top 8 play-off is not the mostly friendly type of environment for a new player.

These are the main reasons I don't really like the weekend challenges. I'm in the minority in this opinion, but that's because the prizes are crazy good with a 24 people turn-out.

I want growth in the classic based formats, specifically 100 singleton, but some players just seem interested in farming the weekend challenges for all they're worth.

There is definitely an by Paul Leicht at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 13:52
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There is definitely an elitist divide between those who want to encourage new blood and those who like being able to play with expensive cards not many others have. But also some people probably look at those cards as an investment which in this case has just become a situation where they either panic sell now or hold and hope it rises again so that if they do want to get out at sometime they still can afford to.

Our sadness is because by Calavera at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 14:03
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Our sadness is because instead of the P9 which we were all clamoring for we got duals which we already had and in some cases spent quite a bit on. so we didn't get what we want and what we already had lost value.

And duals weren't the bottleneck... anyone who wanted to play could have easily obtained the ones they need. most decks require 6-7 duals and a bunch of fetches. Doesn't come close to the price of 4x FoW.

So oeverall this is still a net postive for legacy/classic as it will get more players... but the hardcore Classic players all had their hopes up for p9.

Yeah it's not about keeping by GainsBanding at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 23:37
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Yeah it's not about keeping new players out. New players are good. But wizards could have given the experienced players power in ME4 and just done more regular ME123 drafts & sealed to get more duals out.
Really I'm just repeating Danger's thoughts in his great new article on Classic Quarter.

I'm with LE on this one, I by JustSin at Fri, 11/19/2010 - 13:27
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I'm with LE on this one, I currently don't have the duals because I sold them all, but a couple weeks ago I did have them and I still would feel the same about the reprint