I agree; I had no idea the rule was revised. When I made the first version of the deck it was around last summer, and had checked its legality then. I'm not promoting the use of the bug now that I know - but I think the druid/vaults shell is still something people should experiment with, as it's a very powerful engine to play overly elaborate enchant/artifact combos that aren't pragmatic otherwise. Actually, in all 3 sample games, I didn't even flashback Kraj, as it's such a win-more - so the premise may be flawed, but the sample games themselves were fully functional and legal.
the only thing the Enchantress deck is really missing atm is Replenish and it has still performed well without it, however even though I prefer it to the dredge deck the dredge deck has a higher showing atm, perhaps because of cost idk
Good stuff. That Enchantress deck is cheaper than I thought it would be. Is it more viable than dredge, though? And I thought it was missing some significant pieces online still. Maybe I will have to buy in...
I like that Idea Nik. I used to play the original combo before rules nerfing. it's just one of those things I can't get behind and feel honest about it. If someone else does it, more power to them, I just won't play it.
Yay Unicorns! Unfortunately they aren't that good. Ah well.
Aura Gnarlid seems like a good creature to squeeze into that Enchantress deck. But something tells me that the 16 ticket price tag on Argothian Enchantress is going to keep me from playing that specific deck.
Yeah, I had this combo in my Kraj EDH deck, and was about to set it up when I heard about the new rule. I didn't even try to play it out, because I assumed that the programmers had updated MTGO. But I guess they haven't. This is good for the Community Cup people to know...
Wow! That's a cheap deck! I think that if you want to make the deck a little more competitive, you may wish to add some more mass destruction. Playing white gives you access to some cheap sweepers, such as Planar Cleansing (.1 ticket), Sunscour (.35), Austere Command (1.15) Solar Tide (.1), Kirtar's Wrath (.8), Magus of the Disk (.1) and Winds of Rath (.75).
The pre-cons are actually pretty sweet. I've seen people play with them without changes and still do OK. Plus you get access to some cards that aren't online yet.
While I'm bummed that the deck I chose for my pilot article turns out to be a bug exploit since September, it's actually easily remediable for folks who don't want to break the rules, given that Kraj is strictly a win-more. Simply make the following changes to the deck.
-1 Jace Beleren
-1 Dread Return
-2 Experiment Kraj
+2 Moment's Peace
+1 Wrath of God
+1 Worldly Tutor/Eladamri's Call/Chord of Calling
While this rather defeats the title of the article, we still have a fully functional combo deck where you can attack with hasted indestructible artifact creatures, AND even still attack with your planeswalker. So it's still a fun one - and these changes would actually reduce the number of precombo dead cards and increase the efficacy and resiliency of the deck.
I remember playing you with my shamans deck. it's the same deck the I played in this weeks past Tribal event. I went in thinking like most people do in the casual roon, and that is that my idea of casual and everyone elses is a little skewed. Meaning there are a lot more competative decks in the casual room. And when I saw unicorns, my first thought was "This guy is going to get blown out of the water." I felt a little dirty beating you with a more competative tribe thinking you were just playing for the sheer fun of it. This incidently was also my turning point into playing more tribal. Sure I played a little here and there, but I have been more active in it the recent couple of weeks thaks to you guys here at Pure Mtgo.
While I agree with the sentiment as far as tournaments go, something as odd and off the wall as this? I say abuse it till its fixed as long as your playing in casual. It will be just like the old days before anyone actually knew the rules. Its certainly not in the same realm as abusing bugs in tournaments or purposefully drafting Soul's Fire since its bugged so you can get compensation.
I think if wizards made Legacy a pt format we would see one of two options, people would stop whining and buy in, or mass rebellion/fla,e wars/quitting threats
I like the cleric deck. Personally not a fan of Battletide Alchemist, but the rest of the deck is cool. Though I would have to be that guy and run primeval light alonside enchanted evening.
Yea the official rules are that this combo has been nerfed, but as stated, MTGO must not of caught up. I will say though, and this is just my opinion, I would not suggest people to take advantage of a bug/lack of code, as I would want to promote the integrity of Magic as a whole rather then exploiting a failed attempt to enforce the rules. To me it's the same as poining out a hole in a wall of a first person shooter game and telling people to take advantage of it because it helps them to win the game.
Good job on the article though. I look forward to more.
"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die."
"You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles."
Yes, the Princess Bride is an amazing movie. The reason I included that picture is because Vizzini's decision making process seemed an awful lot like what I was doing when I was trying to come up with answers to what my opponent is doing, when all along he's playing a different game. He has built up an immunity to Iocane powder.
For reference, I looked up the entire dialogue....
Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You've made your decision then?
Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Man in Black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Vizzini: Wait til I get going! Now, where was I?
Man in Black: Australia.
Vizzini: Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're just stalling now.
Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.
Vizzini: IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE POISON IS!
Man in Black: Then make your choice.
Vizzini: I will, and I choose - What in the world can that be?
Vizzini: [Vizzini gestures up and away from the table. Roberts looks. Vizzini swaps the goblets]
Man in Black: What? Where? I don't see anything.
Vizzini: Well, I- I could have sworn I saw something. No matter.First, let's drink. Me from my glass, and you from yours.
Man in Black, Vizzini: [Vizzini and the Man in Black drink ]
Man in Black: You guessed wrong.
Vizzini: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
Vizzini: [Vizzini stops suddenly,his smile frozen on his face and falls to the right out of camera dead]
Buttercup: And to think, all that time it was your cup that was poisoned.
Man in Black: They were both poisoned. I spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder.
you're right I guess I should modify my earlier statement, there are somethings Wizards can to to change the secondary market, but there is always that chance that even if they increased the chance of you opening a rare and moved mythics back to rare, but there will always be the chance that in an effort to make money a "store" grabs up every card in the top Std deck and inflates the price similar to where they are now, part of pricing items is what people are willing to pay... if people are willing to pay more and more (like FoW) then the price will continue to rise even if a few more copies were introduced into the system
To be honest, I did have a week of vacation that I had to use or lose, so that gave me some extra playing time. Of course I spent a lot of that week looking after my wife and daughter when my wife was sick and I also spent a lot my time that week helping her with her childcare. Still I did have some extra time to play, and my wife didn't mind me playing more than usual because I was helping her out quite a bit that week.
Of course actually playing in the MOCS is not going to happen for me. I will gladly take the opt-out prize as a 10 round tournament on Mother's Day weekend is definitely something that would get me into trouble with my family.
So your claim that MOCS are for students and people with huge amounts of spare time still has a lot of validity.
The only thing it can't do that the changeling can is be resurrected by cruel revival. It is definently worth a try though. Thanks
I agree; I had no idea the rule was revised. When I made the first version of the deck it was around last summer, and had checked its legality then. I'm not promoting the use of the bug now that I know - but I think the druid/vaults shell is still something people should experiment with, as it's a very powerful engine to play overly elaborate enchant/artifact combos that aren't pragmatic otherwise. Actually, in all 3 sample games, I didn't even flashback Kraj, as it's such a win-more - so the premise may be flawed, but the sample games themselves were fully functional and legal.
the only thing the Enchantress deck is really missing atm is Replenish and it has still performed well without it, however even though I prefer it to the dredge deck the dredge deck has a higher showing atm, perhaps because of cost idk
Good stuff. That Enchantress deck is cheaper than I thought it would be. Is it more viable than dredge, though? And I thought it was missing some significant pieces online still. Maybe I will have to buy in...
I like that Idea Nik. I used to play the original combo before rules nerfing. it's just one of those things I can't get behind and feel honest about it. If someone else does it, more power to them, I just won't play it.
I think a mass rebellion online would actually be quite comical. I will bring the pocket protectors, you bring the staplers.
I have built unicorns, I have won with them, but I wouldn't recommend them.
Yay Unicorns! Unfortunately they aren't that good. Ah well.
Aura Gnarlid seems like a good creature to squeeze into that Enchantress deck. But something tells me that the 16 ticket price tag on Argothian Enchantress is going to keep me from playing that specific deck.
Yeah, I had this combo in my Kraj EDH deck, and was about to set it up when I heard about the new rule. I didn't even try to play it out, because I assumed that the programmers had updated MTGO. But I guess they haven't. This is good for the Community Cup people to know...
Wow! That's a cheap deck! I think that if you want to make the deck a little more competitive, you may wish to add some more mass destruction. Playing white gives you access to some cheap sweepers, such as Planar Cleansing (.1 ticket), Sunscour (.35), Austere Command (1.15) Solar Tide (.1), Kirtar's Wrath (.8), Magus of the Disk (.1) and Winds of Rath (.75).
The pre-cons are actually pretty sweet. I've seen people play with them without changes and still do OK. Plus you get access to some cards that aren't online yet.
Fun article!
Oops! The 2 missing cards are March of the Machines and Lightning Greaves as singles.
Admins- any way we can add these in post-publication?
Thanks for the welcome and the support Shard!
While I'm bummed that the deck I chose for my pilot article turns out to be a bug exploit since September, it's actually easily remediable for folks who don't want to break the rules, given that Kraj is strictly a win-more. Simply make the following changes to the deck.
-1 Jace Beleren
-1 Dread Return
-2 Experiment Kraj
+2 Moment's Peace
+1 Wrath of God
+1 Worldly Tutor/Eladamri's Call/Chord of Calling
While this rather defeats the title of the article, we still have a fully functional combo deck where you can attack with hasted indestructible artifact creatures, AND even still attack with your planeswalker. So it's still a fun one - and these changes would actually reduce the number of precombo dead cards and increase the efficacy and resiliency of the deck.
Thank you for the praise, I'm glad you enjoyed my article.
I remember playing you with my shamans deck. it's the same deck the I played in this weeks past Tribal event. I went in thinking like most people do in the casual roon, and that is that my idea of casual and everyone elses is a little skewed. Meaning there are a lot more competative decks in the casual room. And when I saw unicorns, my first thought was "This guy is going to get blown out of the water." I felt a little dirty beating you with a more competative tribe thinking you were just playing for the sheer fun of it. This incidently was also my turning point into playing more tribal. Sure I played a little here and there, but I have been more active in it the recent couple of weeks thaks to you guys here at Pure Mtgo.
Unicorns are really hard to make a deck around. They really don't do much of anything that well. Props for giving them a try.
I personally try to stick to rare tribes with at least 1 decent member. At the moment Rhinos are interesting to me.
While I agree with the sentiment as far as tournaments go, something as odd and off the wall as this? I say abuse it till its fixed as long as your playing in casual. It will be just like the old days before anyone actually knew the rules. Its certainly not in the same realm as abusing bugs in tournaments or purposefully drafting Soul's Fire since its bugged so you can get compensation.
I think if wizards made Legacy a pt format we would see one of two options, people would stop whining and buy in, or mass rebellion/fla,e wars/quitting threats
I like the cleric deck. Personally not a fan of Battletide Alchemist, but the rest of the deck is cool. Though I would have to be that guy and run primeval light alonside enchanted evening.
Yea the official rules are that this combo has been nerfed, but as stated, MTGO must not of caught up. I will say though, and this is just my opinion, I would not suggest people to take advantage of a bug/lack of code, as I would want to promote the integrity of Magic as a whole rather then exploiting a failed attempt to enforce the rules. To me it's the same as poining out a hole in a wall of a first person shooter game and telling people to take advantage of it because it helps them to win the game.
Good job on the article though. I look forward to more.
Unicorns could be good, I'm sure of it.
lol well then I saved you the 0-3 because they are just that bad lol though now of course AJ or Flip will take them and make them work to spite me lol
yea I short cut links in a lot of cases because during a week I'm putting together this and running numbers for Legacy so it saves time
that's more like it!
"Have fun storming the castle."
"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die."
"You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles."
Yes, the Princess Bride is an amazing movie. The reason I included that picture is because Vizzini's decision making process seemed an awful lot like what I was doing when I was trying to come up with answers to what my opponent is doing, when all along he's playing a different game. He has built up an immunity to Iocane powder.
For reference, I looked up the entire dialogue....
Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You've made your decision then?
Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Man in Black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Vizzini: Wait til I get going! Now, where was I?
Man in Black: Australia.
Vizzini: Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're just stalling now.
Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.
Vizzini: IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE POISON IS!
Man in Black: Then make your choice.
Vizzini: I will, and I choose - What in the world can that be?
Vizzini: [Vizzini gestures up and away from the table. Roberts looks. Vizzini swaps the goblets]
Man in Black: What? Where? I don't see anything.
Vizzini: Well, I- I could have sworn I saw something. No matter.First, let's drink. Me from my glass, and you from yours.
Man in Black, Vizzini: [Vizzini and the Man in Black drink ]
Man in Black: You guessed wrong.
Vizzini: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
Vizzini: [Vizzini stops suddenly,his smile frozen on his face and falls to the right out of camera dead]
Buttercup: And to think, all that time it was your cup that was poisoned.
Man in Black: They were both poisoned. I spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder.
you're right I guess I should modify my earlier statement, there are somethings Wizards can to to change the secondary market, but there is always that chance that even if they increased the chance of you opening a rare and moved mythics back to rare, but there will always be the chance that in an effort to make money a "store" grabs up every card in the top Std deck and inflates the price similar to where they are now, part of pricing items is what people are willing to pay... if people are willing to pay more and more (like FoW) then the price will continue to rise even if a few more copies were introduced into the system
To be honest, I did have a week of vacation that I had to use or lose, so that gave me some extra playing time. Of course I spent a lot of that week looking after my wife and daughter when my wife was sick and I also spent a lot my time that week helping her with her childcare. Still I did have some extra time to play, and my wife didn't mind me playing more than usual because I was helping her out quite a bit that week.
Of course actually playing in the MOCS is not going to happen for me. I will gladly take the opt-out prize as a 10 round tournament on Mother's Day weekend is definitely something that would get me into trouble with my family.
So your claim that MOCS are for students and people with huge amounts of spare time still has a lot of validity.