No comments about this line? "I have a playset of Rite of Replication already, and the card is pretty bad." I have found that rite of replication is a great card, and have been able to kick it for the win multiple times. And when you can't kick it, you get the best creature on the board. If you play it on an opponent's creature you avoid most blow outs too. I think it would be a fine first pick (not over the casualties though).
As far as cutting black, did you start the draft intending to cut black or just pick the best card in your first pack? I think you just first picked a bomb and decided to stick with it. I've seen this go both ways. In this case, it worked. Many times it doesn't, especially with black in Zendikar. Not really a great draft for an article on cutting a color, and not a huge risk after getting a 6th pick Hideous end.
Walking atlus is really good if you have multiples of cards like vapor snare or living tsunami, so allow you to still advance you mana and have them out
For what it's worth, I found a post on pdcmagic.com in which I was running Prismatic Strands MAINDECK in a White Weenie deck (admittedly a tribal one) with Benevolent Bodyguard, Order of Leitbur, etc.... in 2008.
I don't agree with all the negative feedback here.
Although black was pretty much ignored from the start it probably took alot of sweat picking that vampire nighthawk over the fetch in swiss.
This part needs work though
"I is not all that easy to get an opponent to throw a good creature in front of a blocker so you can blow it out with Disfigure"
I never block blockers, beacause they don't kill me :) The only one throwing good creatures at blockers should be you :P
hehehe..."Phyrexian War Beast is doing infinite donkey-kicks in a jealous rage over (Razor Golem)." I haven't had a good laugh like that in a long time. Keep it up!
First of all, I don't think the author meant to insult anyone. I agree that his choice of words may not have been the best, but let's stop beating a dead horse.
Also on the subject of whether or not his examples demonstrated cutting a color adequately, I'm not experienced a drafter enough to comment. However, if all these commenters think they know it better than the author then maybe they should consider writing an article for the benefit of others.
One thing I do know is that some people do tend to ignore black completely in ZZW drafts. I myself have done it before and paid for it dearly when I was matched up against the mono-b player who got the nuts draft (3 x Vampire Hexmage, Hideous End, multiple Disfigure, Marsh Casualties, Gatekeeper of Malakir, plus more!).
The problem is a lot of inexperienced drafters (and I count myself in them) often here that it's so hard to fight for black blah blah blah, that they just go ahead and ignore it altogether.
I took your article, looked across it for decks that looked "Budget". I avoided any deck running lots of dual lands, tarmogoyfs, vindicates or deeds. Here is what I found, all main deck only, no sb included.
Red Death - $255.97
Walker Control - $323.23
Mono Black Control - $224.20
Suicide Black - $168.52 (No Sinkhole or Negator included)
Chalice Green - $369.98 (This list only ran 1x Tarmogoyf)
Demon Stompy - $254.70 (No Priest of Gix or Negator included)
Boros Deck Wins - $174.53
Dragon Stompy - $258.52 (City of Traitors accounts for 40.22% of total cost)
and to humor everyone
Team America - $1000.90 (Not including Sinkhole)
You see 200-300 is really "Budget"
Danger did an article showing the cost of Dredge to be around 170 if memory serves me correctly. When I did my research the cost was around 200ish, not sure where it is now.
Pretty sure I priced Enchantress around 100, not including Argothian, Replenish and Serra's Sanctum.
Here is the problem for a new Legacy Player. They don't wake up one morning and say, "Hum, I think I'll go drop a grand today because I want to test around with Team America". With the current prices, I think you will find newer players playing the same decks over and over which will accomplish one of two things.
1. They will get so good at that particular deck and win so many tournaments they will be able to buy more cards to use in other lists.
or
2. They will get bored and leave the game
Or better yet I left one out.
3. They will just go into debt, I'll have to work even harder to pay for their bankruptcy which was filed after they chose a playset of FOW instead of their mortgage.
yea, i dont mean to hate, so i will try to stay as nuetral as a anon faceless commenter will be accepted. to say you are cutting or to show us how to cut doesnt really pan out due to the fact that black was totally skipped over the whole draft, which happens. of course that happens when i am not in black or when i am the one giving it up. go figure. did any of the replays show a black drafter? only one hidious end would mean someone tried it a bit.
to echo though, try this concept again and show to us what you mean by cutting. say try with white or red where there is competition
$200 is budget friendly when you consider the cost of many other decklists. For someone to think they can enter an eternal format with a $30-50 decklists and be consistantly competitive is just crazy. Heck, right now a playset of Underground Seas cost $216. Now you've got me curious, I think I will go price some of these rogue decks. Be back later with results lol!
lol that is the trick to the format... the "budget" options can run $200 from scratch.. granted I'm willing to bet any long time player has accumulated some stuff to make these decks a bit cheaper, but still budget in legacy is not budget in casual lol
you're right I was rushing through parts of this to get it done and I neglected to note the difference from whiffy's list that is my fault, but I do link the article so anyone interested please go check it out!
You all have to realize that in most of his writings he thinks he is above almost everyone. This is nothing to fret over. So let it not bother you. One who calls another an idiot is surely an idiot. Is that okay with everyone who is angry?
I understood what you meant by 'idiot' but it still irrationally irked me to see you say it. I think that's where people are taking umbrage...it has a visceral effect. I'd use the phrase "Who is driving the bus?" or "Are they sleeping?" to indicate the same thing. For those people this was after all a car wreck.
I am guessing Swiss...Cutting a color in a group which likely does not have proper card evaluations means nothing. Taking one of the best uncommons in the set, followed up by one of the best commons for mono-B, and recognizing that a 6th pick Hideous End might mean black is open.
How about calling them "distracted, inexperienced, unprepared, sleepy, multitasking poorly, inebriated" in the first place, instead of using the term idiots and risking offending them, when they misunderstand and decide you think they are "mentally retarded, ignoranamoses and/or clinically brain dead" ?
If any one of them stumbles upon your article and reads your comments, do you think they will be encouraged to give it another go? My guess is that it is actually more likely for them to get discouraged if this was their first steps in drafting.
correct. The black in the later packs was there because I cut it. Cards like Disfigure are not splashed in non-black decks, but cards like Tomb Hex and Burst Lightning can be. I suspect a number of green splash decks may have started out thinking black, and been forced out into other colors. We cannot know, short of looking at all the packs and talking to all the drafters, but that appears likely. We had a couple three color green decks, and that i consistent with losing a color.
To misquote Inigo: "I keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
I could be using the term "idiots" as a shortcut to mean my opponents were some combination of distracted, inexperienced, unprepared, sleepy, multitasking poorly, inebriated; that they preferred drafting "cute" cards or thematically, or had radically different views on pick orders which did not seem to work well in practice. Or I could be using "idiots" as a deadly insult, to imply that my opponents were "mentally retarded, ignoranamoses and/or clinically brain dead."
If you really think that I wanted to insult my opponents and could not think of a better invective than "idiot," then you are, well, idiots.
I can side with you on round 8. I know Vapor Snare is insane and I wasn't playing the deck. I just always hate keeping a double color cc spell when I don't have any land to cast it in hand.
Round 10 I know how exhausting it can be to play so many rounds.
No comments about this line? "I have a playset of Rite of Replication already, and the card is pretty bad." I have found that rite of replication is a great card, and have been able to kick it for the win multiple times. And when you can't kick it, you get the best creature on the board. If you play it on an opponent's creature you avoid most blow outs too. I think it would be a fine first pick (not over the casualties though).
As far as cutting black, did you start the draft intending to cut black or just pick the best card in your first pack? I think you just first picked a bomb and decided to stick with it. I've seen this go both ways. In this case, it worked. Many times it doesn't, especially with black in Zendikar. Not really a great draft for an article on cutting a color, and not a huge risk after getting a 6th pick Hideous end.
Walking atlus is really good if you have multiples of cards like vapor snare or living tsunami, so allow you to still advance you mana and have them out
im pretty sure strands was seeing play in g/w slivers as well a points. I know it has been a sideboard card in the original blue zoo decks....
For what it's worth, I found a post on pdcmagic.com in which I was running Prismatic Strands MAINDECK in a White Weenie deck (admittedly a tribal one) with Benevolent Bodyguard, Order of Leitbur, etc.... in 2008.
http://forums.pdcmagic.com/viewtopic.php?t=2542
This should be an article about how to get lucky in drafting against people who don't know what they are doing.
I don't agree with all the negative feedback here.
Although black was pretty much ignored from the start it probably took alot of sweat picking that vampire nighthawk over the fetch in swiss.
This part needs work though
"I is not all that easy to get an opponent to throw a good creature in front of a blocker so you can blow it out with Disfigure"
I never block blockers, beacause they don't kill me :) The only one throwing good creatures at blockers should be you :P
hehehe..."Phyrexian War Beast is doing infinite donkey-kicks in a jealous rage over (Razor Golem)." I haven't had a good laugh like that in a long time. Keep it up!
First of all, I don't think the author meant to insult anyone. I agree that his choice of words may not have been the best, but let's stop beating a dead horse.
Also on the subject of whether or not his examples demonstrated cutting a color adequately, I'm not experienced a drafter enough to comment. However, if all these commenters think they know it better than the author then maybe they should consider writing an article for the benefit of others.
One thing I do know is that some people do tend to ignore black completely in ZZW drafts. I myself have done it before and paid for it dearly when I was matched up against the mono-b player who got the nuts draft (3 x Vampire Hexmage, Hideous End, multiple Disfigure, Marsh Casualties, Gatekeeper of Malakir, plus more!).
The problem is a lot of inexperienced drafters (and I count myself in them) often here that it's so hard to fight for black blah blah blah, that they just go ahead and ignore it altogether.
Gonna double post here so please forgive me.
I took your article, looked across it for decks that looked "Budget". I avoided any deck running lots of dual lands, tarmogoyfs, vindicates or deeds. Here is what I found, all main deck only, no sb included.
Red Death - $255.97
Walker Control - $323.23
Mono Black Control - $224.20
Suicide Black - $168.52 (No Sinkhole or Negator included)
Chalice Green - $369.98 (This list only ran 1x Tarmogoyf)
Demon Stompy - $254.70 (No Priest of Gix or Negator included)
Boros Deck Wins - $174.53
Dragon Stompy - $258.52 (City of Traitors accounts for 40.22% of total cost)
and to humor everyone
Team America - $1000.90 (Not including Sinkhole)
You see 200-300 is really "Budget"
Danger did an article showing the cost of Dredge to be around 170 if memory serves me correctly. When I did my research the cost was around 200ish, not sure where it is now.
Pretty sure I priced Enchantress around 100, not including Argothian, Replenish and Serra's Sanctum.
Here is the problem for a new Legacy Player. They don't wake up one morning and say, "Hum, I think I'll go drop a grand today because I want to test around with Team America". With the current prices, I think you will find newer players playing the same decks over and over which will accomplish one of two things.
1. They will get so good at that particular deck and win so many tournaments they will be able to buy more cards to use in other lists.
or
2. They will get bored and leave the game
Or better yet I left one out.
3. They will just go into debt, I'll have to work even harder to pay for their bankruptcy which was filed after they chose a playset of FOW instead of their mortgage.
Pete Jahn writing limited articles is a joke....
Go vote for him to represent you at the community cup, you idiots!!!
yea, i dont mean to hate, so i will try to stay as nuetral as a anon faceless commenter will be accepted. to say you are cutting or to show us how to cut doesnt really pan out due to the fact that black was totally skipped over the whole draft, which happens. of course that happens when i am not in black or when i am the one giving it up. go figure. did any of the replays show a black drafter? only one hidious end would mean someone tried it a bit.
to echo though, try this concept again and show to us what you mean by cutting. say try with white or red where there is competition
$200 is budget friendly when you consider the cost of many other decklists. For someone to think they can enter an eternal format with a $30-50 decklists and be consistantly competitive is just crazy. Heck, right now a playset of Underground Seas cost $216. Now you've got me curious, I think I will go price some of these rogue decks. Be back later with results lol!
lol that is the trick to the format... the "budget" options can run $200 from scratch.. granted I'm willing to bet any long time player has accumulated some stuff to make these decks a bit cheaper, but still budget in legacy is not budget in casual lol
you're right I was rushing through parts of this to get it done and I neglected to note the difference from whiffy's list that is my fault, but I do link the article so anyone interested please go check it out!
You all have to realize that in most of his writings he thinks he is above almost everyone. This is nothing to fret over. So let it not bother you. One who calls another an idiot is surely an idiot. Is that okay with everyone who is angry?
Mentally retarded = also very politically incorrect and to some downright offensive.
I understood what you meant by 'idiot' but it still irrationally irked me to see you say it. I think that's where people are taking umbrage...it has a visceral effect. I'd use the phrase "Who is driving the bus?" or "Are they sleeping?" to indicate the same thing. For those people this was after all a car wreck.
I am guessing Swiss...Cutting a color in a group which likely does not have proper card evaluations means nothing. Taking one of the best uncommons in the set, followed up by one of the best commons for mono-B, and recognizing that a 6th pick Hideous End might mean black is open.
Try this in 8-4 and let us know how it goes.
How about calling them "distracted, inexperienced, unprepared, sleepy, multitasking poorly, inebriated" in the first place, instead of using the term idiots and risking offending them, when they misunderstand and decide you think they are "mentally retarded, ignoranamoses and/or clinically brain dead" ?
If any one of them stumbles upon your article and reads your comments, do you think they will be encouraged to give it another go? My guess is that it is actually more likely for them to get discouraged if this was their first steps in drafting.
correct. The black in the later packs was there because I cut it. Cards like Disfigure are not splashed in non-black decks, but cards like Tomb Hex and Burst Lightning can be. I suspect a number of green splash decks may have started out thinking black, and been forced out into other colors. We cannot know, short of looking at all the packs and talking to all the drafters, but that appears likely. We had a couple three color green decks, and that i consistent with losing a color.
A few Months ago everyone was calling me a noob because i played WW in this Format.
To misquote Inigo: "I keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
I could be using the term "idiots" as a shortcut to mean my opponents were some combination of distracted, inexperienced, unprepared, sleepy, multitasking poorly, inebriated; that they preferred drafting "cute" cards or thematically, or had radically different views on pick orders which did not seem to work well in practice. Or I could be using "idiots" as a deadly insult, to imply that my opponents were "mentally retarded, ignoranamoses and/or clinically brain dead."
If you really think that I wanted to insult my opponents and could not think of a better invective than "idiot," then you are, well, idiots.
:)
I can side with you on round 8. I know Vapor Snare is insane and I wasn't playing the deck. I just always hate keeping a double color cc spell when I don't have any land to cast it in hand.
Round 10 I know how exhausting it can be to play so many rounds.
My stupid comment deleted....
(ignore this comment, it doesn't exist)