I sympathise with Jimmy Wong when he ran around on the stage in joy! (if interested, go to YouTube and watch the video called "Magic at PAX: Kaladesh Closing Program" (go to 25:00 to see the Jimmy Wong/Chandra moment!).
Nissa is 3 mana? (We're talking flip pws here.) Ack nevermind. Misunderstood what you meant there. Yeah I was theorizing that she helps with a slow start.
I disagree with Nissa. She has seen almost zero use in Modern up to this point. The coco decks play differently in Modern and usually cap at four mana. Not saying she will never show up, but it'll take a very certain type of deck.
Kytheon actually has seen use in various W aggro decks. If you enjoy those types of strategies, I would suggest picking up at least two copies if they are cheap enough.
Jace is being played somewhat in vintage so there is niche interest at least. The pitch dredge deck in legacy might like him too. Nissa seems fine in coco decks so you will probably still see her in modern. Other than those two I doubt you will see them very often.
So what is the verdict on the origin flip-walkers? Will they increase post-rotation? Enough to make them a good investment? They do seem to be very cheap but I have lost touch with price levels, so I don't really know what to think.
Any insight would be appreciated?
I agree with what you're saying, but I feel some of the points you raise don't really hold. For example, justifying something should't happen because "(X) has never before been a critical Magic skill", when tournament Magic is defined precisely by the game's ever-changing nature and the pro players' ability to adapt.
Some other reasons come down to MTGO and paper simply being different games, but they fail to prove that one is necessarily better than the other. And of course, it's obvious that reason #3 was written well before the current e-sports craze.
But yes, the logistic hurdles are definitely very true, as is reason #1 (which is the best point in my opinion).
A small pet peeve of mine.... a card price cannot change by -153%. That would imply a negative price :) The price change is usually found by dividing with the old value.
I remember a LOT of complaints about those prize packs, so there is a reasonable chance that they do something a bit different, given how cagey they are being about telling us.
Yes, that's the obvious way (and I say so in the article), but if that's so, why the heck haven't they announced it yet? Remember, the Legendary Cube and LCPPs were announced at the beginning of last August, and even the fixed version was done by the end of August. The only reason I can think of for the delay is that they're still trying to figure out if they can code something (making Illusion of Choice work, seeing if they can print a non-draft-matters version of Archdemon of Paliano, or seeing if whatever crazy mechanic is in C16 can be put on MTGO), but even that's embarrassing--if Standard has to be hurt by having everything locked down 6-9 months ahead of release, you better not be coding MTGO (either the relatively simple Kaladesh or these cards) until the last minute.
I am expecting that these cards are going to be released in prize packs for the cube contest. It's probably the easiest way since they did it with the Legendary Cube last time right?
CTC and C16 cards will be released in November, and while they won't tell us how yet (which is completely unacceptable, especially when Kaladesh isn't doing anything special--even Energy is just Experience Counters along with a way to spend them), they say we'll find out at least how CTC will be released "later this month".
Heh well they are tough no doubt, but I have been getting rather absurdly unlucky as well vs burn, goblins and affinity. You can beat them fine, just so long as your luckier and play better than me, which is quite easy haha.
There's a neat little trick with Subjugator Angel and mass reanimation like Living Death or Patriarch's Bidding, namely pairing her with Sunblast Angel. Oh, your guys got reanimated too? I don't think so. Bow down, then back you go.
As I was reading this article, it occurred to me that millions of people in the world (billions maybe?) actually believe in angels, given their presence in some major religions. What a strange world we live in.
I've played off and on and always loved control. I haven't played enough to become very very skilled but I'm hoping to create a truely good monoblue control soon, i'm willing to put in the effort to research and I think this article will set me well on my way. It was very well written and I feel it will help me be more critical of myself. Thank you for it, well done.
Draft Leagues
while I understand what is Wizards of the Coast trying to do I really don't like the idea. When the first constructed leagues were introduced I knew that Drafts will eventually follow. Cross-pod drafting is something I hated. Knowing the cards in the pool is a huge advantage and also the power level stays more or less the same. While if you pair cross-pod the power level of decks can be totally different. I don't think that hate picking is actually an issue but the knowledge of what can hurt you the most so you pay attention that it does not happen is something that helps you win a draft. It will be a bit more random and people will more often be randomly killed by some unexpected rares.
Ok, now it will be more like a sealed deck with the exception that you pick the best cards you want for your deck. I'm not sure if people will like this but they are right in one thing. Those that want Swiss usually do not care about something like this, they usually just want to play and not having all the information from a pod won't matter for them. The 8:4 drafts will continue so I don't see a problem there unless they will stop SE events as well.
The players will have to decide what matters more for them. I think there are many players that will prefer to play in a League because they simply don't have 2.5 hours for a draft.
Vintage Daily time shift
BTW The Vintage Daily time shift seems even worse than it was before so I guess those won't fire at all and the bug still wasn't fixed.
Hearthstone/Organized Play
Hearthstone is not a competitor? Have you guys filled in those surveys about Magic Online before leagues started? It was more of Hearthstone survey than modo one! Even though I do not know much about this it seems that people got used to Hearthstone's and other digital card games system. System on Magic Online that used to copy paper organized play is the oddball here. Many players simply can't accept this structure online anymore. I think it is right for WotC to go forward and start changing it.
While playing PTQ Finals yesterday I was wondering about this. There were 212 players which means 8 rounds of swiss and top 8. Some tournaments are bigger and take longer like the MOCS ones for example. It's like going to GP and playing 9 rounds IRL. It takes up the whole day (I usually have to stay up during the night in order to finish the tournament). I know that premier events are still something different but if you tell someone that you played a 8 round tournament online and that it took well over 8 hours of your time he will probably stare at you in disbelief. The first question asked is usually about why it takes so long and the person quite often asks why you have to wait till your next match.
See where I go with my thoughts (I'm kinda tired after my magic marathon yesterday). It's like...well you guys remember damage on stack, right? Have you ever tried explaining this to someone else? New players did not usually understand and found it difficult and hardly straightforward. It wasn't something that could be considered the norm. It really worked differently. Not from our point of view since we were used to play with it for years and use it to our advantage. Everyone wanted the damage to be dealt immediately. It's similar with the tournament structure. Swiss is not really understood as being 'normal' for online play...(hope you get what I mean...ehm)
When Leagues began I really hated the prizes. But then competitive leagues were introduced to save the day. Still it needs some tweaking from my point of view but they are trying to make it better for us. They also need to figure out what works and what not. Legacy was rather experimental till the Legacy Festival that made things for the better and I like the P9 and Legacy Challenges even though many people just complain about the prize structure. I guess I just consider it something nice to play since you can't otherwise find a bigger Legacy or Vintage tournament. There are only some things possible with limited amount of people and those 100 or so active vintage players we can't even have a league even that is something that would work for everyone. the dailies are at terrible times and hardly fire.
-------------------------
Thx for the article!
It will be interesting to see if it is possible (...for me...) to spot any differences going from 8-player to the league structure. Other than the benefit of not waiting for the opponents.
Every time I lose a draft match from now on I will of course complain about the change of tournament structure!?!
See this is why I did not do prices in my turn of state, I would have messed up so badly at the math.
I am also very happy about the new Chandra.
I sympathise with Jimmy Wong when he ran around on the stage in joy! (if interested, go to YouTube and watch the video called "Magic at PAX: Kaladesh Closing Program" (go to 25:00 to see the Jimmy Wong/Chandra moment!).
Nissa is 3 mana? (We're talking flip pws here.) Ack nevermind. Misunderstood what you meant there. Yeah I was theorizing that she helps with a slow start.
I disagree with Nissa. She has seen almost zero use in Modern up to this point. The coco decks play differently in Modern and usually cap at four mana. Not saying she will never show up, but it'll take a very certain type of deck.
Kytheon actually has seen use in various W aggro decks. If you enjoy those types of strategies, I would suggest picking up at least two copies if they are cheap enough.
Jace is being played somewhat in vintage so there is niche interest at least. The pitch dredge deck in legacy might like him too. Nissa seems fine in coco decks so you will probably still see her in modern. Other than those two I doubt you will see them very often.
The tables do look nice!
So what is the verdict on the origin flip-walkers? Will they increase post-rotation? Enough to make them a good investment? They do seem to be very cheap but I have lost touch with price levels, so I don't really know what to think.
Any insight would be appreciated?
I agree with what you're saying, but I feel some of the points you raise don't really hold. For example, justifying something should't happen because "(X) has never before been a critical Magic skill", when tournament Magic is defined precisely by the game's ever-changing nature and the pro players' ability to adapt.
Some other reasons come down to MTGO and paper simply being different games, but they fail to prove that one is necessarily better than the other. And of course, it's obvious that reason #3 was written well before the current e-sports craze.
But yes, the logistic hurdles are definitely very true, as is reason #1 (which is the best point in my opinion).
But what if Tezz is a RENEGADE judge, who plays it fast and loose? "I AM THE COMMITTEE!" :p
Bleh, I normally would catch that. Guess I spent too much time getting the tables to cooperate than I did verifying my excel references.
Good job. i enjoyed reading it.
A small pet peeve of mine.... a card price cannot change by -153%. That would imply a negative price :) The price change is usually found by dividing with the old value.
Tezzeret is the head judge of the fair.
Oh, I might have misunderstood--I know that was the end result but I thought Baan thought the then-unknown Tezzeret was *also* a renegade.
I remember a LOT of complaints about those prize packs, so there is a reasonable chance that they do something a bit different, given how cagey they are being about telling us.
Tezzeret was hunting the Renegade, who turned out to be Pia, or as he called her, "Renegade Prime".
Yes, that's the obvious way (and I say so in the article), but if that's so, why the heck haven't they announced it yet? Remember, the Legendary Cube and LCPPs were announced at the beginning of last August, and even the fixed version was done by the end of August. The only reason I can think of for the delay is that they're still trying to figure out if they can code something (making Illusion of Choice work, seeing if they can print a non-draft-matters version of Archdemon of Paliano, or seeing if whatever crazy mechanic is in C16 can be put on MTGO), but even that's embarrassing--if Standard has to be hurt by having everything locked down 6-9 months ahead of release, you better not be coding MTGO (either the relatively simple Kaladesh or these cards) until the last minute.
I am expecting that these cards are going to be released in prize packs for the cube contest. It's probably the easiest way since they did it with the Legendary Cube last time right?
Well, an MTGO Tumblr post finally gave us some concrete information:
http://wizardsmtgo.tumblr.com/post/150099054849/conspiracy-take-the-crown
CTC and C16 cards will be released in November, and while they won't tell us how yet (which is completely unacceptable, especially when Kaladesh isn't doing anything special--even Energy is just Experience Counters along with a way to spend them), they say we'll find out at least how CTC will be released "later this month".
Hey Rokiyu, thanks for the feedback. Shoot me a list when you're done, I'd love to see it.
Heh well they are tough no doubt, but I have been getting rather absurdly unlucky as well vs burn, goblins and affinity. You can beat them fine, just so long as your luckier and play better than me, which is quite easy haha.
Thanks for the comment Michelle!
Nice article about UG Threshold. I hope one day that this deck will become competitive.
Regarding your Murasa Tron deck, I saw that you defeated everyone except Burn and Goblins. Wow it seems that red decks are a rough matchup for you!
There's a neat little trick with Subjugator Angel and mass reanimation like Living Death or Patriarch's Bidding, namely pairing her with Sunblast Angel. Oh, your guys got reanimated too? I don't think so. Bow down, then back you go.
Great article, I enjoyed reading that.
As I was reading this article, it occurred to me that millions of people in the world (billions maybe?) actually believe in angels, given their presence in some major religions. What a strange world we live in.
I've played off and on and always loved control. I haven't played enough to become very very skilled but I'm hoping to create a truely good monoblue control soon, i'm willing to put in the effort to research and I think this article will set me well on my way. It was very well written and I feel it will help me be more critical of myself. Thank you for it, well done.
Draft Leagues
while I understand what is Wizards of the Coast trying to do I really don't like the idea. When the first constructed leagues were introduced I knew that Drafts will eventually follow. Cross-pod drafting is something I hated. Knowing the cards in the pool is a huge advantage and also the power level stays more or less the same. While if you pair cross-pod the power level of decks can be totally different. I don't think that hate picking is actually an issue but the knowledge of what can hurt you the most so you pay attention that it does not happen is something that helps you win a draft. It will be a bit more random and people will more often be randomly killed by some unexpected rares.
Ok, now it will be more like a sealed deck with the exception that you pick the best cards you want for your deck. I'm not sure if people will like this but they are right in one thing. Those that want Swiss usually do not care about something like this, they usually just want to play and not having all the information from a pod won't matter for them. The 8:4 drafts will continue so I don't see a problem there unless they will stop SE events as well.
The players will have to decide what matters more for them. I think there are many players that will prefer to play in a League because they simply don't have 2.5 hours for a draft.
Vintage Daily time shift
BTW The Vintage Daily time shift seems even worse than it was before so I guess those won't fire at all and the bug still wasn't fixed.
Hearthstone/Organized Play
Hearthstone is not a competitor? Have you guys filled in those surveys about Magic Online before leagues started? It was more of Hearthstone survey than modo one! Even though I do not know much about this it seems that people got used to Hearthstone's and other digital card games system. System on Magic Online that used to copy paper organized play is the oddball here. Many players simply can't accept this structure online anymore. I think it is right for WotC to go forward and start changing it.
While playing PTQ Finals yesterday I was wondering about this. There were 212 players which means 8 rounds of swiss and top 8. Some tournaments are bigger and take longer like the MOCS ones for example. It's like going to GP and playing 9 rounds IRL. It takes up the whole day (I usually have to stay up during the night in order to finish the tournament). I know that premier events are still something different but if you tell someone that you played a 8 round tournament online and that it took well over 8 hours of your time he will probably stare at you in disbelief. The first question asked is usually about why it takes so long and the person quite often asks why you have to wait till your next match.
See where I go with my thoughts (I'm kinda tired after my magic marathon yesterday). It's like...well you guys remember damage on stack, right? Have you ever tried explaining this to someone else? New players did not usually understand and found it difficult and hardly straightforward. It wasn't something that could be considered the norm. It really worked differently. Not from our point of view since we were used to play with it for years and use it to our advantage. Everyone wanted the damage to be dealt immediately. It's similar with the tournament structure. Swiss is not really understood as being 'normal' for online play...(hope you get what I mean...ehm)
When Leagues began I really hated the prizes. But then competitive leagues were introduced to save the day. Still it needs some tweaking from my point of view but they are trying to make it better for us. They also need to figure out what works and what not. Legacy was rather experimental till the Legacy Festival that made things for the better and I like the P9 and Legacy Challenges even though many people just complain about the prize structure. I guess I just consider it something nice to play since you can't otherwise find a bigger Legacy or Vintage tournament. There are only some things possible with limited amount of people and those 100 or so active vintage players we can't even have a league even that is something that would work for everyone. the dailies are at terrible times and hardly fire.
-------------------------
Thx for the article!
I think that 1750 is a good rating.
It will be interesting to see if it is possible (...for me...) to spot any differences going from 8-player to the league structure. Other than the benefit of not waiting for the opponents.
Every time I lose a draft match from now on I will of course complain about the change of tournament structure!?!