I think Helm of Awakening is the better ban card (if not, Top). In Pure, it forces people to play Artificers or Vedalken to get Etherium Sculptor for access to the combo. Even in regular, any instant-speed creature or artifact removal option will stop the combo if Sculptor is the win con, thus powering down the combo considerably. Underdog is a bit chancier, but those two tribes may not be so hot if other tribes come down, plus again, there is the instant-speed removal option.
I really miss the old collection view. It felt like I was building a collection. The new client feels like some toddler came into a room with a binder and just dumped it on the floor. I assume the issue where your sort of the collect defaults to alphabetical still no matter what you try to save it to?
At this point I don't think we are getting a collection screen back. Which is really sad because it at least helped to justify in my mind the money I've spent in the client. The last month I just haven't even had motivation to try and fight the client to play.
They had to be high, in order to mitigate the fact that the "community" was not involved in choosing who represented them. Giving us all those sweet cards might stifle us enough to overlook how a tournament organizer got to pick its dream team and also who faces that dream team in competition. It's not just that your favorite football team made it to the superbowl and then got to choose who they played against-- it's like the inventors of football hold a playoff and choose who represented the creators, and who they face. In order to re-establish relations with the community, WOTC better, not to put too fine a point on it, take a dive and divvy out those sweet prizes. I can't think of a worse situation then: 1. no community voting/involvement 2. hand-picking the opposing team. 3. Offering sweet prizes for the community. 4. Beating the "Community" and dangling sweet prizes in front of us only to not give them out. Though I loved interacting with Erik “Hamtastic” Friborg for the brief period I did, and though I love that his name adorns the cup and want it won, the whole situation sticks in my craw this year.
this all well and good (btw, I always read your friday column, wtg!) i miss the leagues of old where you got the packs and made the deck, not the current create a deck stuff going down now. i am in a position where i sell off my drafting cards for tickets for more drafts, i cannot assemble a deck. are they planning on giving us that anytime?
I'm looking forward to Allies Reanimator in EDH. Haven't decided on the Commander yet but it certainly seems like it will be a fun exercise once I get enough of the cards (in paper.)
Knight of the Reliquary plus Retreat to Coralhelm is pretty sweet. Makes me wish I would've seen that combo first. In a way, it's like a Jeskai Ascendancy but for Bant lovers!
I also want you to know that when I first started writing articles back in the Spring, you commented on each and every one of my articles, giving me that boost of confidence to keep on writing. I never got to say thank you for that, so I want to say it to you now................. Thanks!
AJ is essentially correct. Your base is black warrior creatures. Ideally, these want to attack your opponent down to 0 life before the opponent has set up its defenses, as you have no removal once they do. You need each spell you have to equate with some kind of life loss for your opponent. The deck will have diminishing returns the longer the game goes as your creatures will get outclassed. Speed is everything. You could have splashed red for direct damage spells that clear a path for your creatures of opposing blockers or as pure damage directed to the opponent. Each non-creature spell you use, in essence, is your bet that it will deal more damage than, say, a Lightning Bolt, or its slightly less powerful cousins. Most of your non-Warrior slots are combo cards, even if it may not seem like it at first blush. For example, Rush of Battle, at the top of your curve, could be a red enchantment or instant that deals damage correctly. Rush of Battle can do more damage, but only in combination with Warriors. You need about two warriors in play when you draw Rush to equal the damage a 4cc red spell could do with Warriors or none. Therefore to be worth its slot, you really need at least three Warriors in play and you have to bank on your opponent not having a removal spell or cheaper counterspell. As you can expect, Tribal has plenty of creature removal so it's not always easy to have three creatures in play that can attack to make Rush worth it. This is a shaky combo which you should learn to try to avoid. The lifelink aspect of the card (and Harsh Sustenance) is only relevant against decks where your Warriors are the bigger, slower tribe that also tries to win with incremental direct damage, there shouldn't be many of these as Warriors can be pretty fast. Those that do, often play lots of removal (that doubles as direct damage), so your Rush combo can be easily neutralized.
Other cards have problems too. To get value of Mardu Hordechief, you have to have white mana, three overall, have a successful attack this turn (your opponent will try hard to prevent this), and even with the 1/1 token you get, it still doesn't do the amount of damage next turn that other options could give you at 3-4 mana. Another mini-combo card that is extremely fragile. Graveblade Marauder will probably trade 1-1 with many other 3-drops or 4-drops, which usually favors your opponent who wants to stall the game out for his expensive spells. It gives your opponent options as not blocking may be way better. If you have no creatures in your yard (exiled? stalled?), it takes that card four whole turns to equate the same damage of a 1 casting cost Lightning Bolt. It can potentially do more, but I would have misgivings if anyone said it were likely. Hand of Silumgar does two damage on the second turn for 2 mana and trades with any other 2-drop creature. Trading is very bad for you, as discussed above. In a resource war, you want to trade your 1-drops for their 2- or 3-drops, in order to get value. Your list will probably do best in Pure (Warriors are not eligible for Underdog), since you use only Warriors and people can't trade your creatures with the most common 1-drop removal options like Lightning Bolt or Swords to Plowshares.
Obsidian Battle-Axe is a great addition as it increases the amount of damage that each new warrior does and is not hurt by mass removal spells. Your best Warrior that you're not playing is probably Vampiric Lacerator, a one-drop with 2 power. Gatekeeper of Malakir is a 2-drop that plays better as a 3-drop, clearing the way for your army and attacking for 2. I would probably top the curve with Ashenmoor Gouger a 4-power creature for 3 mana and Lifebane Zombie a 3-power creature for 3 mana that is very hard to block and absolutely wrecks havoc on green and white decks as a side bonus. Chief of the Edge in your deck is kind of nice, but not worth the White splash all by himself. You can really fix your mana by playing mono-black or by splashing red cards that are good even later in the game, unlike Chief.
If you can't afford Badlands (B/R mana) at $2.5 each, then consider Dragonskull Summit for .05 each.
This is really just scratching the surface, but I hope it helps.
Yea it has been too long since I made it up there to play. Time to get out in general has been tough which is why I have been spending more time and resources on MTGO.
Sadly, I just lost my internet connection to MTGO while playing ML_Berlin. I really enjoyed the matchups, and even won my very 1st game of Tribal (before dying to many, many birds). I also appreciate AJ_Impy's comments in game as a watcher, and for his advice on the Warriors deck!
For each main color, using its strengths, are there a certain bank of cards around which to build a skeleton?
For example, using mono-black, I suppose I SHOULD strongly add a playset of Damnation (and Edicts?). That means I'm down 4 tribal cards. What else does black (or blue, or green, etc.) offer as a skeletal backbone from which I finish with the Tribe of my matching color choice?
I.E.: White = 4x Swords to Plowshares
Black = 4x Damnation
Looks like a decent Aggro deck. I'd be inclined to add in some one-drop threats like bloodsoaked champion, maybe trade in for some more cost effective and less circumstantial removal like a set of swords to plowshares. Not wholly convinced by the overrun effects, I might be more inclined to trade them in for a set of obsidian battle-axe. Swords are up on MTGOtraders at 3 cents, battle axes on one. Definitely worth testing, though. Might need a post-wrath plan. I'd be tempted to top the curve with Blood-chin Fanatic as a finisher and a way to have extra reach if things get bogged down, 7 cents each.
Oh OK, thank you very much for your permission. I really was craving that. Since I had not given myself permission to dislike it already...
But that isn't actually what I want. I want to enjoy Vintage (which was one of the reasons I made a comment in the first place, and which I thought was self-evident). And at times I have.
I don't enjoy the idea that everyone does the same exact thing that I am doing and that we are all just hamster drones in some streamlined predetermined "strategic" bs game. Which is how I see the counter wars problem.
I realize that there is more nuance than that but it is essentially how I see it.
I did (and continue to) indeed look at non blue mentor decks and I probably will tinker with that idea again and again but in the meantime there isn't a place to really enjoy the format with other people because the majority of players are in that groove of "have to play flusterstorm..."
What I meant by "food chain" is finding more sophistication in the decks played instead of "play land, tax dork, go." or "play land, jewelry, bigger tax dork or more than one tax dorks, go."
It isn't that Shops isn't great (it is of course pretty awesome the first 50 times you play it for sure) But it isn't very satisfying over the long haul, imho.
Not to mention that playing Shops requires most of the (sometimes quite pricy) pieces that are in it. You really need the 4x Wastelands, 4x Lodestone Golems, etc. So it doesn't provide any sense of satisfaction in tweaking it. Martello Shops, Stax Shops, Robots Shops, MUD variants, are all well mapped out.
As to dredge, if I could go back in time and erase "Bridge From Below" from Future Sight, I would. What a horrible, horrible card and deck. Imho. Thankfully it is extremely rare to play against it.
As to the NYSE, of the total number of decks played how many included FOW and other counters? I bet it was a very large proportion. I also bet that people who managed to do well with non-blue decks dodged their worst match ups which is called "getting lucky". Not that they weren't also highly skillful because winning does not just happen based on match up of course. But Match ups help a lot.
It does contradict what you say. The format is far from dominated by permission. Look at any recent large event.
Frankly, I'm quite sure that the value of countermagic is quite low in vintage right now. There were two copies of Mental Misstep in the entire top 4 of the Vintage Championship. There were only seven copies of Force of Will. The winning decklist didn't even run a playset. The best performing archetype in the format has no countermagic at all. The top decks at the event were threat heavy and answer light.
At the previous large event, the NYSE, there were only four copies of Force of Will in the top 4 and the tournament was won by Dredge. The format is dominated by threats sometimes held in check by permission but very often not.
Mentor is a grey ogre without noncreature spells to support it. To have access to a steady stream of noncreature spells, you need card draw. To draw cards, you need to resolve Dig Through Time, Gush, Ancestral Recall, Treasure Cruise, Jace, Dack, etc. Without protection, you can't resolve those spells. The nature of your chosen threat is that it needs other spells to support it. Mentor also dies to basically any removal worth playing in the first place. It needs protection in the form of permission. It also gets stronger with permission since counterspells are force multipliers when its on board. Mentor as your chosen threat also does little by itself to trump opposing threats. Maybe you should look at decks that can function without the blue draw engines. Shops is a great deck, and I don't know what you mean by "moving up the food chain." Dredge is a great deck with a ton of barely explored design space. Maybe you should take a look at Abzan Humans. Cavern of Souls makes a lot of creature based strategies very viable. Abrupt Decay answers a lot of problems in the format.
Thanks, Bazaar of Baghdad-
Do you have an example of a template I could use for formatting? I have no mana acceleration (black and white, using no dual lands (obviously, noting price)), and, well, here's the decklist and description via tappedout.net:
Under 1 ticket is quite the budget - congratulations, and I believe at least one such deck has won an event. It'd be faster to post an analysis, if you want, by posting your decklist here in an organized format (threats, reactive cards, deck manipulation, mana sources) along with what you're trying to accomplish and how.
I appreciate a lot of the readers offering their well-wishes into a format I may enjoy. Having encouragement is sometimes better than having a winning opening hand.
Inspired by some of your writings, AJ_Impy, I built my 1st MTGO tribal wars deck. I'd like to finish writing some comic script (ya know, because it's kinda how I get real money to live), but then write an analysis of the deck. While I'm sure there exists a metagame of sorts within Tribal Wars, I want to focus more about how I chose cards for my deck, their possible in-game synergies, and overall goals. According to MTGOTraders, this deck comes in under one full ticket, with four rares that help a lot, but fall into a mid-game strategy (Turns 4+). I plan to submit this deck to this website for possible inclusion. Any feedback to it, if/once published, will be very appreciated.
Additionally, I am eager to test my new deck in the format. I offer an open invitation to anyone willing to play me a match (or more, time and opponents willing) on THURSDAY, September 17th at noon (12pm EST) in the MTGO/Just For Fun/Legacy Tribal Wars room. I'll host starting at 11:50am. I care less about actual wins or losses, so invite players to chat with me about my choices in game or about the format overall.
If another time/day works better, drop me a line in the comments, below. If something unexpected happens tomorrow (i.e.: illness), I will post to this thread about any delays or reschedules. Fair? Let's play!
What you said does not contradict what I said so the "actually" is unnecessarily argumentative (and a little offensive).
I appreciate that counters are a necessary evil because of the diversity of the threats offered. I just get tired of playing them. I say this even though I was winning often enough that it wasn't a matter of feeling salty. I just don't look forward to playing the game knowing I will be entering into counter wars. I suppose that was one reason I enjoyed playing shops but then I sold key pieces to "move up" the food chain a little.
I did find playing Mentor Based Gush to be fun but then I started wanting to move the counters out for other cards and it just was not as fun since as you imply there is no way to avoid blowouts without Counter backup. It feels like being in a mental prison. Oh yeah, I HAVE to play this way in order to have a chance to win....ugh OK I am off to do something more fun.
And that's what really irks me is that Vintage CAN be loads of fun. It just isn't the higher up the competitive rung you get. That's why a Vintage PRE does not appeal to me.
That's very well-put Wappla. Also, the longer you play the format, the more you can learn to play yourself into situations where you can totally blow out a person even though they drew more counters than you. Whether it's playing multiple must-answer threats and seeing them mind twist themselves with Force of Will, or just baiting them into a FOW when you have access to Flusterstorm, there's a lot of play there.
Then there are decks like White Trash, Simian's Mom, and various hatebear and Red Beatz builds that can really punish someone for running a ton of counters with little removal. Bluediamonds has beaten my Grixis Therapy/Delver decks more than once with white trash, which is basically a white weenie deck (much more so than even Death and Taxes).
Your comment about needing a lot of different answers is spot-on, and creates interesting tension. Recently I've ran into some issues with my Oath deck, and I learned just how hard it is to deal with a Notion Thief with a deck that doesn't play Red or White! No Bolts, Blasts, or Plows means that certain pesky creatures can be a major issue. My build has a healthy counter package, but I quickly realized that only Force of Will could stop the Notion Thief blowouts.
My understanding of the format is constantly evolving, and despite the fact that I first started playing Magic in 1995, there always seems to be something surprising me in the eternal formats.
Actually, Vintage is a format dominated by very diverse threats, and diverse threats demand versatile answers. Disenchant doesn't do anything to answer a Blightsteel Colossus or a Monastery Mentor. Lightning Bolt can't stop a Snapcaster Mage. Swords to Plowshares is irrelevant against Voltaic Key and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and Tendrils of Agony. Abrupt Decay can't stop Ancestral Recall. Counterspells, though they have their limitations, are simply the most versatile form of removal.
Fair comment, Alex didn't appear to back up his dislike either, however I have a clear idea of what he does like (vintage pauper and commander) and why he likes them, so I can understand finding standard boring.
You should realise that branding something boring without giving your reasons is a challenging stance. My criticism was intended to make you focus on your own preferences and to consider you may have rejected standard pauper too soon.
It's not that I'm a fanatic about standard pauper either. Like Paul above (thanks for the kind words) I drift in and out of standard pauper. I like formats where I can specialise on decks and learn them thoroughly. Right now standard's in a great place, and there's a blue red control deck that rewards skillful play. Rotation is coming though, so it may be completely changed soon. Which is why I play more vintage pauper where I can play Domain Zoo, Simic Infect and Illusion Beats forever. Also singleton formats, come and find me if you ever get into Pauper Prismatic Singleton.
Lol, of course "Community" team will win this. Do you seriously think that this is some kind of a real competition and not WotC marketing instrument?
I think Helm of Awakening is the better ban card (if not, Top). In Pure, it forces people to play Artificers or Vedalken to get Etherium Sculptor for access to the combo. Even in regular, any instant-speed creature or artifact removal option will stop the combo if Sculptor is the win con, thus powering down the combo considerably. Underdog is a bit chancier, but those two tribes may not be so hot if other tribes come down, plus again, there is the instant-speed removal option.
If hammybot is selling the cards at mtgotraders buy prices......why not just sell them all to mtgotraders?
It seems very hard to activate the two last abilities of Batman, Dark knight. Is it a mistake that there is no +1 ability?
I really miss the old collection view. It felt like I was building a collection. The new client feels like some toddler came into a room with a binder and just dumped it on the floor. I assume the issue where your sort of the collect defaults to alphabetical still no matter what you try to save it to?
At this point I don't think we are getting a collection screen back. Which is really sad because it at least helped to justify in my mind the money I've spent in the client. The last month I just haven't even had motivation to try and fight the client to play.
They had to be high, in order to mitigate the fact that the "community" was not involved in choosing who represented them. Giving us all those sweet cards might stifle us enough to overlook how a tournament organizer got to pick its dream team and also who faces that dream team in competition. It's not just that your favorite football team made it to the superbowl and then got to choose who they played against-- it's like the inventors of football hold a playoff and choose who represented the creators, and who they face. In order to re-establish relations with the community, WOTC better, not to put too fine a point on it, take a dive and divvy out those sweet prizes. I can't think of a worse situation then: 1. no community voting/involvement 2. hand-picking the opposing team. 3. Offering sweet prizes for the community. 4. Beating the "Community" and dangling sweet prizes in front of us only to not give them out. Though I loved interacting with Erik “Hamtastic” Friborg for the brief period I did, and though I love that his name adorns the cup and want it won, the whole situation sticks in my craw this year.
this all well and good (btw, I always read your friday column, wtg!) i miss the leagues of old where you got the packs and made the deck, not the current create a deck stuff going down now. i am in a position where i sell off my drafting cards for tickets for more drafts, i cannot assemble a deck. are they planning on giving us that anytime?
Good to see you writing again!
I've taken a bit of a break from writing myself but working on some stuff when I get the time.
I'm looking forward to Allies Reanimator in EDH. Haven't decided on the Commander yet but it certainly seems like it will be a fun exercise once I get enough of the cards (in paper.)
Knight of the Reliquary plus Retreat to Coralhelm is pretty sweet. Makes me wish I would've seen that combo first. In a way, it's like a Jeskai Ascendancy but for Bant lovers!
I also want you to know that when I first started writing articles back in the Spring, you commented on each and every one of my articles, giving me that boost of confidence to keep on writing. I never got to say thank you for that, so I want to say it to you now................. Thanks!
Mean is a good one word description.
AJ is essentially correct. Your base is black warrior creatures. Ideally, these want to attack your opponent down to 0 life before the opponent has set up its defenses, as you have no removal once they do. You need each spell you have to equate with some kind of life loss for your opponent. The deck will have diminishing returns the longer the game goes as your creatures will get outclassed. Speed is everything. You could have splashed red for direct damage spells that clear a path for your creatures of opposing blockers or as pure damage directed to the opponent. Each non-creature spell you use, in essence, is your bet that it will deal more damage than, say, a Lightning Bolt, or its slightly less powerful cousins. Most of your non-Warrior slots are combo cards, even if it may not seem like it at first blush. For example, Rush of Battle, at the top of your curve, could be a red enchantment or instant that deals damage correctly. Rush of Battle can do more damage, but only in combination with Warriors. You need about two warriors in play when you draw Rush to equal the damage a 4cc red spell could do with Warriors or none. Therefore to be worth its slot, you really need at least three Warriors in play and you have to bank on your opponent not having a removal spell or cheaper counterspell. As you can expect, Tribal has plenty of creature removal so it's not always easy to have three creatures in play that can attack to make Rush worth it. This is a shaky combo which you should learn to try to avoid. The lifelink aspect of the card (and Harsh Sustenance) is only relevant against decks where your Warriors are the bigger, slower tribe that also tries to win with incremental direct damage, there shouldn't be many of these as Warriors can be pretty fast. Those that do, often play lots of removal (that doubles as direct damage), so your Rush combo can be easily neutralized.
Other cards have problems too. To get value of Mardu Hordechief, you have to have white mana, three overall, have a successful attack this turn (your opponent will try hard to prevent this), and even with the 1/1 token you get, it still doesn't do the amount of damage next turn that other options could give you at 3-4 mana. Another mini-combo card that is extremely fragile. Graveblade Marauder will probably trade 1-1 with many other 3-drops or 4-drops, which usually favors your opponent who wants to stall the game out for his expensive spells. It gives your opponent options as not blocking may be way better. If you have no creatures in your yard (exiled? stalled?), it takes that card four whole turns to equate the same damage of a 1 casting cost Lightning Bolt. It can potentially do more, but I would have misgivings if anyone said it were likely. Hand of Silumgar does two damage on the second turn for 2 mana and trades with any other 2-drop creature. Trading is very bad for you, as discussed above. In a resource war, you want to trade your 1-drops for their 2- or 3-drops, in order to get value. Your list will probably do best in Pure (Warriors are not eligible for Underdog), since you use only Warriors and people can't trade your creatures with the most common 1-drop removal options like Lightning Bolt or Swords to Plowshares.
Obsidian Battle-Axe is a great addition as it increases the amount of damage that each new warrior does and is not hurt by mass removal spells. Your best Warrior that you're not playing is probably Vampiric Lacerator, a one-drop with 2 power. Gatekeeper of Malakir is a 2-drop that plays better as a 3-drop, clearing the way for your army and attacking for 2. I would probably top the curve with Ashenmoor Gouger a 4-power creature for 3 mana and Lifebane Zombie a 3-power creature for 3 mana that is very hard to block and absolutely wrecks havoc on green and white decks as a side bonus. Chief of the Edge in your deck is kind of nice, but not worth the White splash all by himself. You can really fix your mana by playing mono-black or by splashing red cards that are good even later in the game, unlike Chief.
If you can't afford Badlands (B/R mana) at $2.5 each, then consider Dragonskull Summit for .05 each.
This is really just scratching the surface, but I hope it helps.
Yea it has been too long since I made it up there to play. Time to get out in general has been tough which is why I have been spending more time and resources on MTGO.
Sadly, I just lost my internet connection to MTGO while playing ML_Berlin. I really enjoyed the matchups, and even won my very 1st game of Tribal (before dying to many, many birds). I also appreciate AJ_Impy's comments in game as a watcher, and for his advice on the Warriors deck!
For each main color, using its strengths, are there a certain bank of cards around which to build a skeleton?
For example, using mono-black, I suppose I SHOULD strongly add a playset of Damnation (and Edicts?). That means I'm down 4 tribal cards. What else does black (or blue, or green, etc.) offer as a skeletal backbone from which I finish with the Tribe of my matching color choice?
I.E.: White = 4x Swords to Plowshares
Black = 4x Damnation
More?
Looks like a decent Aggro deck. I'd be inclined to add in some one-drop threats like bloodsoaked champion, maybe trade in for some more cost effective and less circumstantial removal like a set of swords to plowshares. Not wholly convinced by the overrun effects, I might be more inclined to trade them in for a set of obsidian battle-axe. Swords are up on MTGOtraders at 3 cents, battle axes on one. Definitely worth testing, though. Might need a post-wrath plan. I'd be tempted to top the curve with Blood-chin Fanatic as a finisher and a way to have extra reach if things get bogged down, 7 cents each.
Oh OK, thank you very much for your permission. I really was craving that. Since I had not given myself permission to dislike it already...
But that isn't actually what I want. I want to enjoy Vintage (which was one of the reasons I made a comment in the first place, and which I thought was self-evident). And at times I have.
I don't enjoy the idea that everyone does the same exact thing that I am doing and that we are all just hamster drones in some streamlined predetermined "strategic" bs game. Which is how I see the counter wars problem.
I realize that there is more nuance than that but it is essentially how I see it.
I did (and continue to) indeed look at non blue mentor decks and I probably will tinker with that idea again and again but in the meantime there isn't a place to really enjoy the format with other people because the majority of players are in that groove of "have to play flusterstorm..."
What I meant by "food chain" is finding more sophistication in the decks played instead of "play land, tax dork, go." or "play land, jewelry, bigger tax dork or more than one tax dorks, go."
It isn't that Shops isn't great (it is of course pretty awesome the first 50 times you play it for sure) But it isn't very satisfying over the long haul, imho.
Not to mention that playing Shops requires most of the (sometimes quite pricy) pieces that are in it. You really need the 4x Wastelands, 4x Lodestone Golems, etc. So it doesn't provide any sense of satisfaction in tweaking it. Martello Shops, Stax Shops, Robots Shops, MUD variants, are all well mapped out.
As to dredge, if I could go back in time and erase "Bridge From Below" from Future Sight, I would. What a horrible, horrible card and deck. Imho. Thankfully it is extremely rare to play against it.
As to the NYSE, of the total number of decks played how many included FOW and other counters? I bet it was a very large proportion. I also bet that people who managed to do well with non-blue decks dodged their worst match ups which is called "getting lucky". Not that they weren't also highly skillful because winning does not just happen based on match up of course. But Match ups help a lot.
It does contradict what you say. The format is far from dominated by permission. Look at any recent large event.
Frankly, I'm quite sure that the value of countermagic is quite low in vintage right now. There were two copies of Mental Misstep in the entire top 4 of the Vintage Championship. There were only seven copies of Force of Will. The winning decklist didn't even run a playset. The best performing archetype in the format has no countermagic at all. The top decks at the event were threat heavy and answer light.
At the previous large event, the NYSE, there were only four copies of Force of Will in the top 4 and the tournament was won by Dredge. The format is dominated by threats sometimes held in check by permission but very often not.
Mentor is a grey ogre without noncreature spells to support it. To have access to a steady stream of noncreature spells, you need card draw. To draw cards, you need to resolve Dig Through Time, Gush, Ancestral Recall, Treasure Cruise, Jace, Dack, etc. Without protection, you can't resolve those spells. The nature of your chosen threat is that it needs other spells to support it. Mentor also dies to basically any removal worth playing in the first place. It needs protection in the form of permission. It also gets stronger with permission since counterspells are force multipliers when its on board. Mentor as your chosen threat also does little by itself to trump opposing threats. Maybe you should look at decks that can function without the blue draw engines. Shops is a great deck, and I don't know what you mean by "moving up the food chain." Dredge is a great deck with a ton of barely explored design space. Maybe you should take a look at Abzan Humans. Cavern of Souls makes a lot of creature based strategies very viable. Abrupt Decay answers a lot of problems in the format.
And it's also fine to just not like Vintage.
Thanks, Bazaar of Baghdad-
Do you have an example of a template I could use for formatting? I have no mana acceleration (black and white, using no dual lands (obviously, noting price)), and, well, here's the decklist and description via tappedout.net:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mums-guard-rail/
Thanks in advance!
Under 1 ticket is quite the budget - congratulations, and I believe at least one such deck has won an event. It'd be faster to post an analysis, if you want, by posting your decklist here in an organized format (threats, reactive cards, deck manipulation, mana sources) along with what you're trying to accomplish and how.
I appreciate a lot of the readers offering their well-wishes into a format I may enjoy. Having encouragement is sometimes better than having a winning opening hand.
Inspired by some of your writings, AJ_Impy, I built my 1st MTGO tribal wars deck. I'd like to finish writing some comic script (ya know, because it's kinda how I get real money to live), but then write an analysis of the deck. While I'm sure there exists a metagame of sorts within Tribal Wars, I want to focus more about how I chose cards for my deck, their possible in-game synergies, and overall goals. According to MTGOTraders, this deck comes in under one full ticket, with four rares that help a lot, but fall into a mid-game strategy (Turns 4+). I plan to submit this deck to this website for possible inclusion. Any feedback to it, if/once published, will be very appreciated.
Additionally, I am eager to test my new deck in the format. I offer an open invitation to anyone willing to play me a match (or more, time and opponents willing) on THURSDAY, September 17th at noon (12pm EST) in the MTGO/Just For Fun/Legacy Tribal Wars room. I'll host starting at 11:50am. I care less about actual wins or losses, so invite players to chat with me about my choices in game or about the format overall.
If another time/day works better, drop me a line in the comments, below. If something unexpected happens tomorrow (i.e.: illness), I will post to this thread about any delays or reschedules. Fair? Let's play!
What you said does not contradict what I said so the "actually" is unnecessarily argumentative (and a little offensive).
I appreciate that counters are a necessary evil because of the diversity of the threats offered. I just get tired of playing them. I say this even though I was winning often enough that it wasn't a matter of feeling salty. I just don't look forward to playing the game knowing I will be entering into counter wars. I suppose that was one reason I enjoyed playing shops but then I sold key pieces to "move up" the food chain a little.
I did find playing Mentor Based Gush to be fun but then I started wanting to move the counters out for other cards and it just was not as fun since as you imply there is no way to avoid blowouts without Counter backup. It feels like being in a mental prison. Oh yeah, I HAVE to play this way in order to have a chance to win....ugh OK I am off to do something more fun.
And that's what really irks me is that Vintage CAN be loads of fun. It just isn't the higher up the competitive rung you get. That's why a Vintage PRE does not appeal to me.
That's very well-put Wappla. Also, the longer you play the format, the more you can learn to play yourself into situations where you can totally blow out a person even though they drew more counters than you. Whether it's playing multiple must-answer threats and seeing them mind twist themselves with Force of Will, or just baiting them into a FOW when you have access to Flusterstorm, there's a lot of play there.
Then there are decks like White Trash, Simian's Mom, and various hatebear and Red Beatz builds that can really punish someone for running a ton of counters with little removal. Bluediamonds has beaten my Grixis Therapy/Delver decks more than once with white trash, which is basically a white weenie deck (much more so than even Death and Taxes).
Your comment about needing a lot of different answers is spot-on, and creates interesting tension. Recently I've ran into some issues with my Oath deck, and I learned just how hard it is to deal with a Notion Thief with a deck that doesn't play Red or White! No Bolts, Blasts, or Plows means that certain pesky creatures can be a major issue. My build has a healthy counter package, but I quickly realized that only Force of Will could stop the Notion Thief blowouts.
My understanding of the format is constantly evolving, and despite the fact that I first started playing Magic in 1995, there always seems to be something surprising me in the eternal formats.
I hope to see a new article from you soon!
Actually, Vintage is a format dominated by very diverse threats, and diverse threats demand versatile answers. Disenchant doesn't do anything to answer a Blightsteel Colossus or a Monastery Mentor. Lightning Bolt can't stop a Snapcaster Mage. Swords to Plowshares is irrelevant against Voltaic Key and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and Tendrils of Agony. Abrupt Decay can't stop Ancestral Recall. Counterspells, though they have their limitations, are simply the most versatile form of removal.
Fair comment, Alex didn't appear to back up his dislike either, however I have a clear idea of what he does like (vintage pauper and commander) and why he likes them, so I can understand finding standard boring.
You should realise that branding something boring without giving your reasons is a challenging stance. My criticism was intended to make you focus on your own preferences and to consider you may have rejected standard pauper too soon.
It's not that I'm a fanatic about standard pauper either. Like Paul above (thanks for the kind words) I drift in and out of standard pauper. I like formats where I can specialise on decks and learn them thoroughly. Right now standard's in a great place, and there's a blue red control deck that rewards skillful play. Rotation is coming though, so it may be completely changed soon. Which is why I play more vintage pauper where I can play Domain Zoo, Simic Infect and Illusion Beats forever. Also singleton formats, come and find me if you ever get into Pauper Prismatic Singleton.
4 Illusionist's Bracers
4 Necrotic Ooze
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sphinx of Magosi
3 Coffin Queen
3 King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
3 Tropical Island
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Pack Rat
4 Chord of Calling
1 Triskelion
2 Quirion Ranger
1 Gilder Bairn
1 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
3 Kiora's Follower
1 Maze of Ith
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Staff of Domination
1 Reflecting Pool
3 Reflecting Pool
3 Underground Sea
2 Vivid Marsh
2 Vivid Grove
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
1 Bloodflow Connoisseur