The main thing people forget is that WOTC being a corp has to think as a group about its bottom line before it can appease us. No matter how disastrous it feels to us to have these horrible decisions thrown in our faces the fact is they are being made to produce a better bottom line for the corporation.
That is not to say we should not protest because we should. Just be aware that bringing up Forge is not protesting. It is merely beside the point.
I worked on MTGForge if that's what you mean, early on (2009 and prior) and it was rough going for a long long time. Took a lot of testing and arguing and discussion. It was not a magic trick (pardon the pun) getting it functional and the main guy seemed to want to give up more than once.
There were definitely some things about it that are remarkable but that program did not come easily or freely. Took lots and lots of hours and patience and back to the drawing board sessions.
And I would not compare the two.
The MTGO engine is an evolution off a third party's code that's been running for the last 15 years, continuously adding new sets as they came out and while it is certainly possible it could have been made better but priorities were set to maximize profit over performance.
MTGForge is the exact opposite, a labor of love, worked on by hundreds of people (though one guy did most of the coding). And it has been in development for a long time (well over a decade). And because it is a free program it is not being made to perform feats it can barely handle like 1000 person tourneys.
And MTGForge is both client and server in one. Where as MTGO uses multiple servers and a client separately. The client is the "front end" so to speak and serves a different purpose than the engine.
I don't happen to agree with Enderfall's thought. I think they made the changes with the good faith idea to work towards improving the long term economy of the game. But that sort of thing takes time and adjustments and thinking and they must ALSO balance in their bottom line.
Play Points is hardly an exciting step but it could be used to make some of the ideas that players have been suggesting for years to come to pass. But first it has to replace and "fix" what is there. And that is bound to come with some pain. I don't think they are making the right decisions in regard to how to pay out prizes vs prices but I think those things can be adjusted.
Just keep making the right noises (Tweets?) and I think it might happen... Keeping in mind that those making the decisions serve us players 2nd or 3rd.
Hah, Aluren wasn't in Gatherling search results for Tribal Apocalypse, so I erroneously thought I was the first. Glad to get the history straight. By the way, is it just me, or do the videos not play?
It looks fine but I would really push for Perilous Vault somewhere. especially with the rise of Rally decks. And Def keep thoughtseize. Check out some of the UB lists that won IQs or placed well at the open
Here is the Blue/Black control version which I have designed for upcoming tournaments. Its win condition is Thopters only.
3 x Thoughtseize
4 x Hangarback Walker
3 x Clash of Wills
1 x Bile Blight
2 x Disdainful Stroke
3 x Hero's Downfall
4 x Dissolve
4 x Languish
3 x Thopter Spy Network
2 x Crux of Fate
4 x Dig Through Time
26 Lands (including 4 x Thopter Foundry and 1 Darksteel Citadel).
SIDEBOARD
1 x Thoughtseize
3 x Ashiok
4 x Drown in Sorrow
1 x Bile Blight
2 x Dragonlord Silimgar
3 x Negate
1 x Ugin
If you have any thoughts, I would be grateful.
I really wish I could play Artificer's Epiphany, but I can't think what to remove to fit such a card. Do you think that Artificer's Epiphany is better than Thoughtseize in a Blue/Black control deck?
Due to the pee color everywhere on all my foils, all I can think about when I look at my profile photo is...how enjoyable it is to . . . ummmm have foil cards come out from my body when nature calls!
Also, that picture with "You get play points...Everyone gets Play Points!" was too hilarious. Still smiling now...
I think you may be right when you said: "Am I the only one thinking that WotC has made these EV- changes to help compensate for the loss of players due to how horrible the new client is".
I think it is safe to say: "If Wizards had given us a client worthy of the 21st century (especially with compatibility with tablets), then they would have made a LOT more money from the client".
There is free software developed by volunteers called "FORGE", which is compatible with tablets and smartphones, and even has an Artificial Intelligence! And these guys are volunteers who don't charge a cent for their client.
Instead, Wizards give us a sub-standard client, and instead of showing us great improvements to the client, they push us further away by making the EV worse and worse...
I think prizes for 1st 3 places is a bad idea. It's ok when participation is low, but it's getting ugly when more players joins event. Why not to make it like 4 rounds, 40% of pool to 4-0, 60% of pool to 3-1s, if there's more than 8 players? Numbers are not solid, just an example.
Vintage PRE would be brilliant. PREs is one of the few things of MTGO that constatnly getting better, not worse. Only problem with it is bad time for my time zone. Can't play it at 3:00am. Wish there were more PREs for my time zone, any format besides standard is ok.
It's not fair to campare 4-0s and 3-0s. I better say it that way. Earlier, I could score 3-1 and make some profit. Now to make a profit, I need to 3-0.
I've build a huge part of my eternal collection using winnings from dailies. I've planned to get a set of Wastelands that way at the end of the year. Now it's not Wastelands, it's a land of wasted dreams.
I've run many a PRE, all with WotC knowing exactly what I was doing. The only way for it to work is to make the event free and have a suggested donation. Most people will donate the minimum, others maybe slightly above, few will go along for the free ride. The bottom line is: it has to be free and you can pay out whatever you want from the donations.
I remember when thrumming stone + rats was a fun idea in old extended. (At least I think it was old extended) Back in early 2007 I had a friend who loved that deck idea so much that it was all he played. Love this take on it with Marrow Gnawer. Nicely done once again, Adam.
PS: sorry for the delayed comment, its been a hot horrible week so far and I am lagging behind in getting stuff done.
It's one thing to get a lot of funds for a specific tournaments. It's also not that hard to give out small rewards for weekly tournaments. However, I don't think it's possible to have something similar to DEs if they're free.
"This is free event, with an optional donation of three tickets per player. After the final round has been played, donations will be redistributed between the top placing donating players (those electing to play the event sans donation can play and win the event, but are not included in the donation ticket pool) via the following scheme."
If there is a way to do this, it has to be something like this. I'm still not sure if this would be fine but it's worth asking.
Sure thing. Playing the Grixis Therapy deck on stream felt remarkably broken for a deck without Yawgwill and all it's associated cards.
What I mean by that, is that with Snapcaster Mage, I was playing double Time Walks with one or two Young Pyromancers out, or Snapping back an Ancestral. Many times I hit Gitaxian Probe into Cabal Therapy, making two tokens, flash back Therapy, their hand was pretty empty at that point.
It's consistent and very powerful. Plus 3 moxen and Lotus make it more powered and that much more fun!
This is exactly what Grixis needs to be doing. Vault, Key, Vampiric Tutor, Tinker and even Yawgmoth's Will are not what they used to be because aggro-control decks are really good at punishing high investment. Would like to talk to you about this archetype in greater depth sometime.
The main thing people forget is that WOTC being a corp has to think as a group about its bottom line before it can appease us. No matter how disastrous it feels to us to have these horrible decisions thrown in our faces the fact is they are being made to produce a better bottom line for the corporation.
That is not to say we should not protest because we should. Just be aware that bringing up Forge is not protesting. It is merely beside the point.
I worked on MTGForge if that's what you mean, early on (2009 and prior) and it was rough going for a long long time. Took a lot of testing and arguing and discussion. It was not a magic trick (pardon the pun) getting it functional and the main guy seemed to want to give up more than once.
There were definitely some things about it that are remarkable but that program did not come easily or freely. Took lots and lots of hours and patience and back to the drawing board sessions.
And I would not compare the two.
The MTGO engine is an evolution off a third party's code that's been running for the last 15 years, continuously adding new sets as they came out and while it is certainly possible it could have been made better but priorities were set to maximize profit over performance.
MTGForge is the exact opposite, a labor of love, worked on by hundreds of people (though one guy did most of the coding). And it has been in development for a long time (well over a decade). And because it is a free program it is not being made to perform feats it can barely handle like 1000 person tourneys.
And MTGForge is both client and server in one. Where as MTGO uses multiple servers and a client separately. The client is the "front end" so to speak and serves a different purpose than the engine.
I don't happen to agree with Enderfall's thought. I think they made the changes with the good faith idea to work towards improving the long term economy of the game. But that sort of thing takes time and adjustments and thinking and they must ALSO balance in their bottom line.
Play Points is hardly an exciting step but it could be used to make some of the ideas that players have been suggesting for years to come to pass. But first it has to replace and "fix" what is there. And that is bound to come with some pain. I don't think they are making the right decisions in regard to how to pay out prizes vs prices but I think those things can be adjusted.
Just keep making the right noises (Tweets?) and I think it might happen... Keeping in mind that those making the decisions serve us players 2nd or 3rd.
Thanks Marcus for this tip.
Hah, Aluren wasn't in Gatherling search results for Tribal Apocalypse, so I erroneously thought I was the first. Glad to get the history straight. By the way, is it just me, or do the videos not play?
It looks fine but I would really push for Perilous Vault somewhere. especially with the rise of Rally decks. And Def keep thoughtseize. Check out some of the UB lists that won IQs or placed well at the open
Hi Marcus,
Here is the Blue/Black control version which I have designed for upcoming tournaments. Its win condition is Thopters only.
3 x Thoughtseize
4 x Hangarback Walker
3 x Clash of Wills
1 x Bile Blight
2 x Disdainful Stroke
3 x Hero's Downfall
4 x Dissolve
4 x Languish
3 x Thopter Spy Network
2 x Crux of Fate
4 x Dig Through Time
26 Lands (including 4 x Thopter Foundry and 1 Darksteel Citadel).
SIDEBOARD
1 x Thoughtseize
3 x Ashiok
4 x Drown in Sorrow
1 x Bile Blight
2 x Dragonlord Silimgar
3 x Negate
1 x Ugin
If you have any thoughts, I would be grateful.
I really wish I could play Artificer's Epiphany, but I can't think what to remove to fit such a card. Do you think that Artificer's Epiphany is better than Thoughtseize in a Blue/Black control deck?
Yes that comment was "golden!"
Due to the pee color everywhere on all my foils, all I can think about when I look at my profile photo is...how enjoyable it is to . . . ummmm have foil cards come out from my body when nature calls!
Also, that picture with "You get play points...Everyone gets Play Points!" was too hilarious. Still smiling now...
****Best comment so far :)****
Dear Enderfall,
I think you may be right when you said: "Am I the only one thinking that WotC has made these EV- changes to help compensate for the loss of players due to how horrible the new client is".
I think it is safe to say: "If Wizards had given us a client worthy of the 21st century (especially with compatibility with tablets), then they would have made a LOT more money from the client".
There is free software developed by volunteers called "FORGE", which is compatible with tablets and smartphones, and even has an Artificial Intelligence! And these guys are volunteers who don't charge a cent for their client.
Instead, Wizards give us a sub-standard client, and instead of showing us great improvements to the client, they push us further away by making the EV worse and worse...
"I do not feel more special. I feel less eager to enter the Dailies now."
That is the perfect description on how I and most people feel about these!
That's good to know :)
There WAS one for some time, but it was cancelled due to low attendance.
Also you'll need standings to determine winners, and it's always awful.
I think prizes for 1st 3 places is a bad idea. It's ok when participation is low, but it's getting ugly when more players joins event. Why not to make it like 4 rounds, 40% of pool to 4-0, 60% of pool to 3-1s, if there's more than 8 players? Numbers are not solid, just an example.
Vintage PRE would be brilliant. PREs is one of the few things of MTGO that constatnly getting better, not worse. Only problem with it is bad time for my time zone. Can't play it at 3:00am. Wish there were more PREs for my time zone, any format besides standard is ok.
Im just going to say what I feel about the new foiling process. It looks like someone peed on the cards and then dropped some oil on top.
I get the need for a sheen to represent the look of a paper foil but the yellow? It is beyond me.
It's not fair to campare 4-0s and 3-0s. I better say it that way. Earlier, I could score 3-1 and make some profit. Now to make a profit, I need to 3-0.
I've build a huge part of my eternal collection using winnings from dailies. I've planned to get a set of Wastelands that way at the end of the year. Now it's not Wastelands, it's a land of wasted dreams.
Past events on Gatherling.com have gone with the suggested donation method of entry fees in to a prize pool, I don't remember any problems.
I've run many a PRE, all with WotC knowing exactly what I was doing. The only way for it to work is to make the event free and have a suggested donation. Most people will donate the minimum, others maybe slightly above, few will go along for the free ride. The bottom line is: it has to be free and you can pay out whatever you want from the donations.
Good luck!
I remember when thrumming stone + rats was a fun idea in old extended. (At least I think it was old extended) Back in early 2007 I had a friend who loved that deck idea so much that it was all he played. Love this take on it with Marrow Gnawer. Nicely done once again, Adam.
PS: sorry for the delayed comment, its been a hot horrible week so far and I am lagging behind in getting stuff done.
It's one thing to get a lot of funds for a specific tournaments. It's also not that hard to give out small rewards for weekly tournaments. However, I don't think it's possible to have something similar to DEs if they're free.
"This is free event, with an optional donation of three tickets per player. After the final round has been played, donations will be redistributed between the top placing donating players (those electing to play the event sans donation can play and win the event, but are not included in the donation ticket pool) via the following scheme."
If there is a way to do this, it has to be something like this. I'm still not sure if this would be fine but it's worth asking.
It is against the CoC. On the other hand MTGOtraders has a long tradition of funding well run/consistent PREs.
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=47924.0
Go there, start an account so you can post, and let everyone know how the format and time works for you.
We need to find ways to fund a prize pool, but I don't know if charging an entry fee is against the TOS or what.
I would LOVE a Vintage PRE! :)
Sure thing. Playing the Grixis Therapy deck on stream felt remarkably broken for a deck without Yawgwill and all it's associated cards.
What I mean by that, is that with Snapcaster Mage, I was playing double Time Walks with one or two Young Pyromancers out, or Snapping back an Ancestral. Many times I hit Gitaxian Probe into Cabal Therapy, making two tokens, flash back Therapy, their hand was pretty empty at that point.
It's consistent and very powerful. Plus 3 moxen and Lotus make it more powered and that much more fun!
This is exactly what Grixis needs to be doing. Vault, Key, Vampiric Tutor, Tinker and even Yawgmoth's Will are not what they used to be because aggro-control decks are really good at punishing high investment. Would like to talk to you about this archetype in greater depth sometime.