It might be that, or it might just be that it's an universal answer to a large family of threats, which is something a Core Set is certainly allowed to feature regardless, whereas in a block it might need a specific reason.
How would you port this over to "Vintage Pauper"? I considered running 1-2 Insights but it can't grab hexproof guys. Was considering maybe running a Hopeful Eidolon as a creature target when I need to refuel after a board wipe of sorts. Not really sure where to go from here, but it doesn't really matter since the format is super dead. Congrats on the finish!
I think he means that he feels like the card is there to be an answer for a specific archetype that was a problem in testing, and right now, we don't really know what that might be.
I will re-evaluate some of the M15 cards with the spoiler season of Khans of Tarkir. As, some of these cards may be tailor made for the Clan mechanics of Kot. Currently, all we know that there will be total 6 mechanic (5 clan + Morph)
Among them, the clan mechanic of Abzan (WBG) mentioned as "good at long games". And in that regard Spirit Bond may work perfectly with that strategy. But for now, this is just a wild speculation. There are bunch of raw information around like this one that we can speculate.
In the end, all we need is some hard info about the clan mechanics to make some of these potentially good cards the obvious.
I always found Standard as the most chaotic environment for investments. You can never truly predict what will happen next. It's like an evolving living organism with a complex nature.
Functionally Yisan is a somewhat cheaper somewhat more rigid Pod. As such if you design your deck with the bard in mind some interesting things can happen...like Quickling returning Genesis Hydra at the end of your oppponent's turn and then recasting it (because Prophet is on the table) for a higher amount.
Still it isn't insanely good like Pod since it doesn't discount its cost, enable sacs, or allow a nonlinear progression via casting something big and sacrificing it. So its appeal is not for the faint of heart. I'd say it also doesn't appeal much to the Spike crowd since its impact is subtle.
I don't think this needs reevaluating in months to come. You were correct to not talk about it as investment chum. Spirit Bonds may be another story. Producing flying 1/1 tokens has strong potential especially if you can pair it with 2 bounce creatures. And enabling shenanigans with sacrificing spirits is just waiting for a spirit that wants to be sacced to be good.
Those Superfriends decks look like fun to play! (For Standard, at least. Where lately the typical deck is just a bunch of creatures + a bunch of creature removal).
And I noticed a lot of articles (like this one, for instance) where the writer roots for Nissa (just like me!). It's such a great character, and has been in planeswalker hell for so many years, with that terrible first version.
Nissa, Worldwaker saw 33 tix range during last weekend due to new Jund Planeswalkers deck at Pro Tour M15.
And that deck has a strong foundation to exist during next Standard. Personally, I would wait to see what Khans of Tarkir will bring and how will Standard shape around it.
But meanwhile, Nissa's price may fall back to 15 tix range due to intense drafts until KoT.
When I saw Necromancer's Stockpile during spoilers, my first thought was that it's a Black side of Survival of the Fittest style. That 2 cmc range and discarding criteria was all I looked to combine them as cycle.
Yisan is one of my personal favorites from M15 and I'm looking forward to casual play some Standard and legacy tribal with it. Like Spirit Bond, I'm not sure whether it will matter just for financial side. Yet, it's another great card as a variant of Hibernation's End.
I wish, I put Yisan under Schrödinger's Cats criteria. As it's a perfect example for it.
I agree with your choice of Burnwillows as the more likely (o least unlikely) to get a full cycle in Tarkir. Or, honestly, ever.
Nimbus Maze and River of Tears are too weak for rare, and too complex for common/uncommon. River of Tears forces you to remember what happened earlier in the turn, Nimbus Maze is counterintuitive and prone to generate mistakes. I might be wrong, but I don't see R&D ever pushing such a cycle, it feels like something that was part of Future Sight's experiments.
And Horizon Canopy is just too strong. It could lead to decks with the entire mana base able to cycle itself after being used. It seems nuts to me.
Burnwillows is also strong, so I won't bet on it ever getting a cycle too, but if I had to choose, I would choose it over the other three.
Honestly, I find it more likely that Tarkir will give us the reprint of the allied fetch lands, unless they already planned Return to Zendikar for 2015, in which case it could be a good callback to the first Zendikar block. But they know the fetch lands need to be reprinted, and the allied ones added to Modern eventually. A multicolored set looks like the right place for that.
I'm not sure Survival of the Fittest, Artificer's Intuition and Necromancer's Stockpile are supposed to be related to each other (the latter is mechanically very different). It's cool to think they are, though.
So, we're going to see a deck built around Yisan next time? I guess you don't think those will be a thing, or you would have mentioned him as a card to buy. :)
I thought about the possibility of Horizon Canopy cycle. And I still don't believe that this a right environment for them. It will only increase pain outcome and as a result we will see various of Mono colored aggressive decks outbreak to exploit it. Still, I might be wrong about it.
Personally, I really like Spirit Bond and already get my playset. Yet, I'm still not sure about its financial potential to multiply your investment. I guess, Spirit Bond may see some play in White weenie or GW decks as 1-2 copies in 75. If you like it, get it immediately. In the end, it is a great card for casual play.
My main purpose with all these evaluations was to find the cards that will gain value during next Standard season & multiply your investment numbers at the point you sell them.
"Ending the turn this way means the following things happen in order: 1) All spells and abilities on the stack are exiled. This includes spells and abilities that can't be countered. 2) All attacking and blocking creatures are removed from combat. 3) State-based actions are checked. No player gets priority, and no triggered abilities are put onto the stack. 4) The current phase and/or step ends. The game skips straight to the cleanup step. The cleanup step happens in its entirety."
However, if you end the turn before the things are triggered, this happens: "If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep)."
If they were to give us one of the future sight dual land cycles I think its a safe bet it will be the horizon canopy cycle. It plays well with the m15 enemy pain lands filling in gaps without being the same. The Grove cycle is too good for other color combos, particularly the blue ones control decks would rather give you 2 life then take one themselves most of the time. Nimbus Maze would be my other pick but if its wedges that one wouldn't really work. River of tears is bad in other color combos, it worked for faeries because if they wanted black they could play a land but most of the time and always on their opponents turn they wanted blue.
Excellent call on Xenagos he is already nearly doubled back up to the 10 tix range thanks to the jund walker decks, and will probably end up following the same price curve as domri did this year. Though I think spirit bonds is one of the few m15 card with alot of potential you missed.
You know, that Option Nr. 6 is actually a BUG-USE (CHEAT) which can lead to permanent account banning?
Flickerwisp's ability says: "at the beginning of the next end step". If you skip your turn with the sundial, then guess what: The next end step is the end step of the next player. (I asked some judges about that).
Its a BUG in MTGO, that it doesnt act that way, and instead exiles the cards forever. This should not be used or you risk your account!
The biggest problem you didn't mention was unpaid beta testers... who are expected to keep this stuff secret. Again, cheap out and complain if it doesn't work. The WOTC way.
I disagree, clearly, when something has been boondoggled and mismanaged as poorly as MTGO, it is time for vision and leadership to change. I'm not saying Worth has to go, or programmers, but I would look at a change of whoever is above Worth.
With that change a restructure happens, that is when the culture changes.
I also see your point, I'm not out for blood, or for change in the sake of change, I think there is a fundamental flaw in how wotc handles mtgo, and I think that the direction could change with some prodding from hasbro.
Good cast this week. Thanks for giving details on the CCC as the context on the Mothership was lacking. I have heard of a few of the invitees now that I know the context of their backgrounds, my recall mechanism kicked in. That said I am fairly fatigued by the lack of MTGO participants. I am certain these people are all fine and good community members of the game at large and maybe that is the only criteria needed now but it seems sad that MTGO has been somewhat (almost entirely) cut out of the loop.
In the first few we really had a hand as a group of people in the victories of our invitees. They did the grunt work and reaped the benefits mostly but lots of us brainstormed deck strategies, helped practice, gave spiritual/emotional support and were available for everything from chat, to games, to being sounding boards. Now it is as if we have been entirely walled off from that and to THAT I object.
The Pro Tour is mainly an advertising vehicle for WOTC. It lets them showcase the highest levels of play in the game with the most skilled (in theory anyway) players available. The fact that they have reduced the formats available to Standard and Limited to me signals that they wish to tighten up the impact that Pro Tour has. If there is only one constructed format to practice for, Standard will (in theory) solve even faster than normal and will likely evolve into finely tuned Metas. Which I suspect WOTC wants (for some reason.) In any case as a result players will be focused on skill within a known meta even more than before with little room for rogue innovation (risk takers be damned?)
Well that's my take on the why of yet another devastating decision by WOTC. Expect it to change as players make enough stink. As you said, Josh, there are plenty of players who love Modern and it is far from stagnant. It may be too difficult for the beginner to enjoy but it definitely has a real sense of adventure when you start brewing with it. The problem will be convincing WOTC that people are not just interested in Modern but that they need Modern PTs. I think it will happen but not without some encouragement.
As for card prices, I don't buy that it is just Standard making these cards relevant again. There ARE a ton of llanowar wastes and the like out there. This is that Rav lands are going to leave Standard soon and people are stocking up for what may be a dry winter with little in the way of good color fixing. Caryatid by itself can't carry gold colored decks. I expect to see Devotion become more and more dominant unless Khans shows us some very strong multicolor options.
Some people have been known to run $2,000 decks in that event, for a net return of -$2,000 to three significant figures.
This week? An actual profit was made.
It might be that, or it might just be that it's an universal answer to a large family of threats, which is something a Core Set is certainly allowed to feature regardless, whereas in a block it might need a specific reason.
How would you port this over to "Vintage Pauper"? I considered running 1-2 Insights but it can't grab hexproof guys. Was considering maybe running a Hopeful Eidolon as a creature target when I need to refuel after a board wipe of sorts. Not really sure where to go from here, but it doesn't really matter since the format is super dead. Congrats on the finish!
I think he means that he feels like the card is there to be an answer for a specific archetype that was a problem in testing, and right now, we don't really know what that might be.
I will re-evaluate some of the M15 cards with the spoiler season of Khans of Tarkir. As, some of these cards may be tailor made for the Clan mechanics of Kot. Currently, all we know that there will be total 6 mechanic (5 clan + Morph)
Among them, the clan mechanic of Abzan (WBG) mentioned as "good at long games". And in that regard Spirit Bond may work perfectly with that strategy. But for now, this is just a wild speculation. There are bunch of raw information around like this one that we can speculate.
In the end, all we need is some hard info about the clan mechanics to make some of these potentially good cards the obvious.
I always found Standard as the most chaotic environment for investments. You can never truly predict what will happen next. It's like an evolving living organism with a complex nature.
Functionally Yisan is a somewhat cheaper somewhat more rigid Pod. As such if you design your deck with the bard in mind some interesting things can happen...like Quickling returning Genesis Hydra at the end of your oppponent's turn and then recasting it (because Prophet is on the table) for a higher amount.
Still it isn't insanely good like Pod since it doesn't discount its cost, enable sacs, or allow a nonlinear progression via casting something big and sacrificing it. So its appeal is not for the faint of heart. I'd say it also doesn't appeal much to the Spike crowd since its impact is subtle.
I don't think this needs reevaluating in months to come. You were correct to not talk about it as investment chum. Spirit Bonds may be another story. Producing flying 1/1 tokens has strong potential especially if you can pair it with 2 bounce creatures. And enabling shenanigans with sacrificing spirits is just waiting for a spirit that wants to be sacced to be good.
Those Superfriends decks look like fun to play! (For Standard, at least. Where lately the typical deck is just a bunch of creatures + a bunch of creature removal).
And I noticed a lot of articles (like this one, for instance) where the writer roots for Nissa (just like me!). It's such a great character, and has been in planeswalker hell for so many years, with that terrible first version.
Uh? Why shouldn't it be?
When I see a card like Hushwing Griff, I always wonder why it is in the set.
Nissa, Worldwaker saw 33 tix range during last weekend due to new Jund Planeswalkers deck at Pro Tour M15.
And that deck has a strong foundation to exist during next Standard. Personally, I would wait to see what Khans of Tarkir will bring and how will Standard shape around it.
But meanwhile, Nissa's price may fall back to 15 tix range due to intense drafts until KoT.
When I saw Necromancer's Stockpile during spoilers, my first thought was that it's a Black side of Survival of the Fittest style. That 2 cmc range and discarding criteria was all I looked to combine them as cycle.
Yisan is one of my personal favorites from M15 and I'm looking forward to casual play some Standard and legacy tribal with it. Like Spirit Bond, I'm not sure whether it will matter just for financial side. Yet, it's another great card as a variant of Hibernation's End.
I wish, I put Yisan under Schrödinger's Cats criteria. As it's a perfect example for it.
I agree with your choice of Burnwillows as the more likely (o least unlikely) to get a full cycle in Tarkir. Or, honestly, ever.
Nimbus Maze and River of Tears are too weak for rare, and too complex for common/uncommon. River of Tears forces you to remember what happened earlier in the turn, Nimbus Maze is counterintuitive and prone to generate mistakes. I might be wrong, but I don't see R&D ever pushing such a cycle, it feels like something that was part of Future Sight's experiments.
And Horizon Canopy is just too strong. It could lead to decks with the entire mana base able to cycle itself after being used. It seems nuts to me.
Burnwillows is also strong, so I won't bet on it ever getting a cycle too, but if I had to choose, I would choose it over the other three.
Honestly, I find it more likely that Tarkir will give us the reprint of the allied fetch lands, unless they already planned Return to Zendikar for 2015, in which case it could be a good callback to the first Zendikar block. But they know the fetch lands need to be reprinted, and the allied ones added to Modern eventually. A multicolored set looks like the right place for that.
I'm not sure Survival of the Fittest, Artificer's Intuition and Necromancer's Stockpile are supposed to be related to each other (the latter is mechanically very different). It's cool to think they are, though.
So, we're going to see a deck built around Yisan next time? I guess you don't think those will be a thing, or you would have mentioned him as a card to buy. :)
Thank you for your comments.
I thought about the possibility of Horizon Canopy cycle. And I still don't believe that this a right environment for them. It will only increase pain outcome and as a result we will see various of Mono colored aggressive decks outbreak to exploit it. Still, I might be wrong about it.
Personally, I really like Spirit Bond and already get my playset. Yet, I'm still not sure about its financial potential to multiply your investment. I guess, Spirit Bond may see some play in White weenie or GW decks as 1-2 copies in 75. If you like it, get it immediately. In the end, it is a great card for casual play.
My main purpose with all these evaluations was to find the cards that will gain value during next Standard season & multiply your investment numbers at the point you sell them.
When is a good time to sell the new green planeswalker? I bought her when she was under about 16 and now she is in the mid 20's. Should I wait til 30?
This is wrong wrong wrong wrong.
"Ending the turn this way means the following things happen in order: 1) All spells and abilities on the stack are exiled. This includes spells and abilities that can't be countered. 2) All attacking and blocking creatures are removed from combat. 3) State-based actions are checked. No player gets priority, and no triggered abilities are put onto the stack. 4) The current phase and/or step ends. The game skips straight to the cleanup step. The cleanup step happens in its entirety."
However, if you end the turn before the things are triggered, this happens: "If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep)."
Good predictions over all.
If they were to give us one of the future sight dual land cycles I think its a safe bet it will be the horizon canopy cycle. It plays well with the m15 enemy pain lands filling in gaps without being the same. The Grove cycle is too good for other color combos, particularly the blue ones control decks would rather give you 2 life then take one themselves most of the time. Nimbus Maze would be my other pick but if its wedges that one wouldn't really work. River of tears is bad in other color combos, it worked for faeries because if they wanted black they could play a land but most of the time and always on their opponents turn they wanted blue.
Excellent call on Xenagos he is already nearly doubled back up to the 10 tix range thanks to the jund walker decks, and will probably end up following the same price curve as domri did this year. Though I think spirit bonds is one of the few m15 card with alot of potential you missed.
As someone who wants to move out from the all-commons format and into a format I play heavily on paper(Standard), this kind of guide is great.
Great job.
You know, that Option Nr. 6 is actually a BUG-USE (CHEAT) which can lead to permanent account banning?
Flickerwisp's ability says: "at the beginning of the next end step". If you skip your turn with the sundial, then guess what: The next end step is the end step of the next player. (I asked some judges about that).
Its a BUG in MTGO, that it doesnt act that way, and instead exiles the cards forever. This should not be used or you risk your account!
The biggest problem you didn't mention was unpaid beta testers... who are expected to keep this stuff secret. Again, cheap out and complain if it doesn't work. The WOTC way.
Oh snap!
I disagree, clearly, when something has been boondoggled and mismanaged as poorly as MTGO, it is time for vision and leadership to change. I'm not saying Worth has to go, or programmers, but I would look at a change of whoever is above Worth.
With that change a restructure happens, that is when the culture changes.
I also see your point, I'm not out for blood, or for change in the sake of change, I think there is a fundamental flaw in how wotc handles mtgo, and I think that the direction could change with some prodding from hasbro.
I'm not sure that "mad bank" and values of money which would result in change back from a $5 have ever been used before.
Good cast this week. Thanks for giving details on the CCC as the context on the Mothership was lacking. I have heard of a few of the invitees now that I know the context of their backgrounds, my recall mechanism kicked in. That said I am fairly fatigued by the lack of MTGO participants. I am certain these people are all fine and good community members of the game at large and maybe that is the only criteria needed now but it seems sad that MTGO has been somewhat (almost entirely) cut out of the loop.
In the first few we really had a hand as a group of people in the victories of our invitees. They did the grunt work and reaped the benefits mostly but lots of us brainstormed deck strategies, helped practice, gave spiritual/emotional support and were available for everything from chat, to games, to being sounding boards. Now it is as if we have been entirely walled off from that and to THAT I object.
The Pro Tour is mainly an advertising vehicle for WOTC. It lets them showcase the highest levels of play in the game with the most skilled (in theory anyway) players available. The fact that they have reduced the formats available to Standard and Limited to me signals that they wish to tighten up the impact that Pro Tour has. If there is only one constructed format to practice for, Standard will (in theory) solve even faster than normal and will likely evolve into finely tuned Metas. Which I suspect WOTC wants (for some reason.) In any case as a result players will be focused on skill within a known meta even more than before with little room for rogue innovation (risk takers be damned?)
Well that's my take on the why of yet another devastating decision by WOTC. Expect it to change as players make enough stink. As you said, Josh, there are plenty of players who love Modern and it is far from stagnant. It may be too difficult for the beginner to enjoy but it definitely has a real sense of adventure when you start brewing with it. The problem will be convincing WOTC that people are not just interested in Modern but that they need Modern PTs. I think it will happen but not without some encouragement.
As for card prices, I don't buy that it is just Standard making these cards relevant again. There ARE a ton of llanowar wastes and the like out there. This is that Rav lands are going to leave Standard soon and people are stocking up for what may be a dry winter with little in the way of good color fixing. Caryatid by itself can't carry gold colored decks. I expect to see Devotion become more and more dominant unless Khans shows us some very strong multicolor options.
For the RUG Delver list, I've actually cut two lands, one Island and one Mountain.
I've also cut down to one Spell Pierce, two Burst Lightning and no Counterspell.
In their place, I'm running Gitaxian Probe and Brainstorm. Not sure if that's right, but it's the configuration I'm going for, currently.
I feel that guildgates would help the mana base significantly, but it would also slow the deck down a LOT, which worries me.