I'm still trying to figure it out. It certainly improves the matchup against stuff like Burning Vengeance, but color screw is definitely a big concern.
Awesome ideas! In the end, it's a sweet card that will find play in most formats and that's something we should be pleased with. I think it's relevance to the current meta just caused a general wt...?!? I remember the first time my son played a Chalice of the Void on me. I was like for real ?!?!! lol. Great article.
Yes I can check into it if you would like. Not sure I've got the cards for but might be able to save my pennies and see what comes up. Also the beauty of Legacy is that once your in, your in unless something drastic comes up. The decks are almost always viable.
Sell SOM block. The price for SOM is almost at its peak. Once near rotation the cards will fall. Buy the cards you would like to keep after rotation. Maximise your earning potential.
Buy ISD block. Buy it before Avacyn release, stand-alone set, but after Dark Ascension. More Innistrad packs will be opened for D.A. and the price will drop slightly. Maximise your spending potential.
Hug til next year this time, rinse and repeat. It seem nuts but still a decent way to freeroll albeit taking some fun away. =)
Just a cold or the flu I always sound terrible when sick cause I don't handle meds real well. Had I taken Dayquil or something you would be hearing my snoring instead.
Thanks! I agree February's promo cards aren't looking up to much, over Jan I've been going a bit MTGO mad and I might be landing the promo Sword which is a nice incentive ... but not very interesting out of standard Garruk?
I was geared up all week to try my first hand at a TNMO - got home from work all excited, and found that none of the TNMO's were at least reasonable for my timezone (Australia, +10 GMT) - last week there was one at a great time but I couldn't make it for other reasons.
Not sure if anyone can give me some quick advice, I'm still enjoying my SOM Block and trying to decide if there are things in there I should hold on to once it cycles out later this year. Are the Constructed/Legacy/Modern tournament players using those Dual-lands? Playing Infect? Any Planewalkers being utilised?
Quest has been the reason SBena was hated for a little while. :)
On the other hand, I like Stonehewer and Godo a lot. Probably because they're more Johnny/Timmy than Johnny/Spike.
I don't think I ever played Stoneforge in Tribal. I recently even sold some of the swords (after I bought and never used War and Peace, after a while it was like owning a bond certificate), and I never owned a Batterskull. Yet I don't hate the gal. I just remembered I actually put her in a (never seriously tested) deck where she fetches Deathrender in order to put wurms into play. I believe she has fun applications. The swords, on the other hand, are always badass in Tribal, even when you just draw into them or tutor them with Steelshaper's Gift or Enlightened Tutor. Plus, they are expensive cards, while the Stoneforge is a budget card. I wouldn't support the banning of a card every player could afford versus the banning of the high budget side of a broken interaction.
And I just put her in the middle of the logo, don't make me change it! :)
Seriously, an environment with no sword cycle is healthier than one with no Stoneforge, even leaving Batterskull alone.
On a semi-unrelated note, can we all lobby Blippy for the unban of Sword of the Meek? I don't understand why it's currently banned, it's pretty harmless without the Foundry.
I wouldn't mind seeing Stoneforge Mystic go. It's too much of an Easy button. If you really want to go crazy with equipment there are plenty of other options such Stonehewer Giant, Quest for the Holy Relic, and Godo, Bandit Warrior.
The Double Blue in the mana cost pushed me away from the Clique I really wanted most of my mana costs to be single colored so I could operate off 1 sol land and either a lotus petal or a basics. Especially with how prevalent wasteland has become it was relevant in at least one match. However if i tweaked the mana base some I think Clique would serve an excellent replacement for say the Spell Pierces.
(and I will be going back to the write up along side the videos I don't think I cared much for this style once its all said and done).
It's an interesting thought exercise: Countertop can take out my o-stones, Gargoyle sentinels or with the singleton Batterskull, the manor gargs or Predator. If he drops counterbalance before I play a Cloudpost, I might be in some difficulty, especially if he can race. On the other hand, my Spines and especially All Is Dust wreck him. I'd shade it but it depends how well we each come out of the blocks.
To be perfectly honest, I will confess that the Stoneforge Mystic 4-of leaves me cold, especially since BOTH Kor and Artificer are disqualified from Endangered play. Even SBena's rebels is running two, meaning half the top 4 is fielding her.
It may be time to bite the bullet, reinstate Artificer and Kor as playable endangered tribes, and do what Modern and Standard had to do. In a creature-based format, good equipment can be gamewrecking, as we found with Umezawa's Jitte. Stoneforge Mystic has had her time: Let's usher her towards the exit and see what that does to the metagame.
I haven't watched the videos yet (stupid firewall at work), but was curious about the lack of Vendilion Clique. I ran a similar list in a 10 player paper tourney last weekend and the cliques were pretty awesome. I guess maybe your Boseiju helped in that aspect, but I think Clique gives a nice chump blocker when you need to extend the game, which is the case sometimes.
Your thoughts?
BTW - I actually like the typing, makes the article look fuller plus I can read that at work whereas the stupid vids are blocked.
You're perfectly right, CounterTop isn't a deck to be afraid of in Tribal. That's why I defend the choice: it wasn't made to find a cutthroat way to the win. I'll always defend what's different.
I meant that the Pegasi are inconsequential towards the CounterTop strategy. Of course, for the blade strategy (the other half of the deck, as said in the article) they're just fine.
That's true. It is the rest of the deck that suffers as I tried to point out. Snapcaster Mage in particular suffers quite a bit.
*wakes up before commenting next time*
Yes you are correct. I was thinking of it blocking stuff from the library but the exile makes Grasp safe. So my conclusion is still the right one I think. No panic needed, the Cage is not the menace initially perceived. It does still wreck Snapcaster Mage and lots of other cards.
My take on this is you are certainly right to a certain extent. No knock at Apaulogy who is also relatively new to the format and seems to be a fun guy. There are those who play tribal in the "spirit" of it. Those players playing "fair" decks tend to not do as well as those who play to win. That's to be expected. After all this is a competitive game.
The PREs are just not designed to be as good for the non-spikes. That is just the way it goes. For a while Flippers_Giraffe tried to make the environment more friendly to those players who enjoy the spirit and hate the legacy shoehorns. Unfortunately that just simply never worked to anyone's satisfaction.
This is also not a knock on Blippy who has done a remarkable job (despite my initial misgivings when he took over.) I think running this event is tough enough without giving one's self conniptions over whether everyone is having fun too. People come they play and they go. If people didn't show up there would be something to complain about.
I, for one, have never placed in the current regime's top 4. When I do play I tend to play with my idea of fun decks (Sphinges Bidding? fun times). That's the price I pay for sticking to my principles. It is not on everyone else to follow that example. And frankly I stopped playing heavily because the majority seem to enjoy the shoehorned approach.
2-1 is a good result for a first time. Take the wins and leave the losses. Expect the gamut of the legacy/classic world and bring cards accordingly. (Disenchants, plows, wraths, sweepers, etc.) There is no such thing as "unfair" in the apocalypse.
As for this not being about Goblins and Elves well for a long time that was exactly what it was before people started bringing shoehorned decks. Goblins and Elves fit quite well in both worlds and need little tweaking. (Cf: Glimpse of Nature for example.) Any tribe can win given the right player and the right support cards. It also matters a lot who you face and what they are playing.
I think Apaulogy has played that deck before and I don't think he did as well. I think he has tuned it quite a bit over time. I think THAT is what is being applauded. Also there is nothing new about Counter Top or even using it in Tribal Wars. What is new is this specific deck not losing.
err apparently I did, never noticed it just glanced right over it assuming it was just info on when the event is held
I'm still trying to figure it out. It certainly improves the matchup against stuff like Burning Vengeance, but color screw is definitely a big concern.
Awesome ideas! In the end, it's a sweet card that will find play in most formats and that's something we should be pleased with. I think it's relevance to the current meta just caused a general wt...?!? I remember the first time my son played a Chalice of the Void on me. I was like for real ?!?!! lol. Great article.
Yes I can check into it if you would like. Not sure I've got the cards for but might be able to save my pennies and see what comes up. Also the beauty of Legacy is that once your in, your in unless something drastic comes up. The decks are almost always viable.
I love legacy, but the $600 to $1000 price tag is depressing
does Eva Green have a current list?
you didn't really mention what you thought of the changes with the green addition, better or worse?
Sell SOM block. The price for SOM is almost at its peak. Once near rotation the cards will fall. Buy the cards you would like to keep after rotation. Maximise your earning potential.
Buy ISD block. Buy it before Avacyn release, stand-alone set, but after Dark Ascension. More Innistrad packs will be opened for D.A. and the price will drop slightly. Maximise your spending potential.
Hug til next year this time, rinse and repeat. It seem nuts but still a decent way to freeroll albeit taking some fun away. =)
Just a cold or the flu I always sound terrible when sick cause I don't handle meds real well. Had I taken Dayquil or something you would be hearing my snoring instead.
Thanks! I agree February's promo cards aren't looking up to much, over Jan I've been going a bit MTGO mad and I might be landing the promo Sword which is a nice incentive ... but not very interesting out of standard Garruk?
I was geared up all week to try my first hand at a TNMO - got home from work all excited, and found that none of the TNMO's were at least reasonable for my timezone (Australia, +10 GMT) - last week there was one at a great time but I couldn't make it for other reasons.
Not sure if anyone can give me some quick advice, I'm still enjoying my SOM Block and trying to decide if there are things in there I should hold on to once it cycles out later this year. Are the Constructed/Legacy/Modern tournament players using those Dual-lands? Playing Infect? Any Planewalkers being utilised?
Are you ok dude? You sounded like you were dying in the videos :(
I hope you get better, thanks for showcasing a deck I've always been interested in and showing how it plays out.
You'd think, right? ;p
Ratings are good
Quest has been the reason SBena was hated for a little while. :)
On the other hand, I like Stonehewer and Godo a lot. Probably because they're more Johnny/Timmy than Johnny/Spike.
I don't think I ever played Stoneforge in Tribal. I recently even sold some of the swords (after I bought and never used War and Peace, after a while it was like owning a bond certificate), and I never owned a Batterskull. Yet I don't hate the gal. I just remembered I actually put her in a (never seriously tested) deck where she fetches Deathrender in order to put wurms into play. I believe she has fun applications. The swords, on the other hand, are always badass in Tribal, even when you just draw into them or tutor them with Steelshaper's Gift or Enlightened Tutor. Plus, they are expensive cards, while the Stoneforge is a budget card. I wouldn't support the banning of a card every player could afford versus the banning of the high budget side of a broken interaction.
And I just put her in the middle of the logo, don't make me change it! :)
Seriously, an environment with no sword cycle is healthier than one with no Stoneforge, even leaving Batterskull alone.
On a semi-unrelated note, can we all lobby Blippy for the unban of Sword of the Meek? I don't understand why it's currently banned, it's pretty harmless without the Foundry.
I submitted your interview, expect to see it soon. :)
You would think this is a good card or something. 3 articles in 4 days? lol.
Keep up the good work with the Tribal Apocalypse reports.
I sent the reply to your interview questions on Wednesday.
I think Dark Ascension is really going to shake up Tribal Apocalypse. Zombies are going to get some amazing cards.
I wouldn't mind seeing Stoneforge Mystic go. It's too much of an Easy button. If you really want to go crazy with equipment there are plenty of other options such Stonehewer Giant, Quest for the Holy Relic, and Godo, Bandit Warrior.
The Double Blue in the mana cost pushed me away from the Clique I really wanted most of my mana costs to be single colored so I could operate off 1 sol land and either a lotus petal or a basics. Especially with how prevalent wasteland has become it was relevant in at least one match. However if i tweaked the mana base some I think Clique would serve an excellent replacement for say the Spell Pierces.
(and I will be going back to the write up along side the videos I don't think I cared much for this style once its all said and done).
It's an interesting thought exercise: Countertop can take out my o-stones, Gargoyle sentinels or with the singleton Batterskull, the manor gargs or Predator. If he drops counterbalance before I play a Cloudpost, I might be in some difficulty, especially if he can race. On the other hand, my Spines and especially All Is Dust wreck him. I'd shade it but it depends how well we each come out of the blocks.
To be perfectly honest, I will confess that the Stoneforge Mystic 4-of leaves me cold, especially since BOTH Kor and Artificer are disqualified from Endangered play. Even SBena's rebels is running two, meaning half the top 4 is fielding her.
It may be time to bite the bullet, reinstate Artificer and Kor as playable endangered tribes, and do what Modern and Standard had to do. In a creature-based format, good equipment can be gamewrecking, as we found with Umezawa's Jitte. Stoneforge Mystic has had her time: Let's usher her towards the exit and see what that does to the metagame.
I haven't watched the videos yet (stupid firewall at work), but was curious about the lack of Vendilion Clique. I ran a similar list in a 10 player paper tourney last weekend and the cliques were pretty awesome. I guess maybe your Boseiju helped in that aspect, but I think Clique gives a nice chump blocker when you need to extend the game, which is the case sometimes.
Your thoughts?
BTW - I actually like the typing, makes the article look fuller plus I can read that at work whereas the stupid vids are blocked.
Keep up the good work.
You're perfectly right, CounterTop isn't a deck to be afraid of in Tribal. That's why I defend the choice: it wasn't made to find a cutthroat way to the win. I'll always defend what's different.
I meant that the Pegasi are inconsequential towards the CounterTop strategy. Of course, for the blade strategy (the other half of the deck, as said in the article) they're just fine.
That's true. It is the rest of the deck that suffers as I tried to point out. Snapcaster Mage in particular suffers quite a bit.*wakes up before commenting next time*
Yes you are correct. I was thinking of it blocking stuff from the library but the exile makes Grasp safe. So my conclusion is still the right one I think. No panic needed, the Cage is not the menace initially perceived. It does still wreck Snapcaster Mage and lots of other cards.
Thanks for posting.
My take on this is you are certainly right to a certain extent. No knock at Apaulogy who is also relatively new to the format and seems to be a fun guy. There are those who play tribal in the "spirit" of it. Those players playing "fair" decks tend to not do as well as those who play to win. That's to be expected. After all this is a competitive game.
The PREs are just not designed to be as good for the non-spikes. That is just the way it goes. For a while Flippers_Giraffe tried to make the environment more friendly to those players who enjoy the spirit and hate the legacy shoehorns. Unfortunately that just simply never worked to anyone's satisfaction.
This is also not a knock on Blippy who has done a remarkable job (despite my initial misgivings when he took over.) I think running this event is tough enough without giving one's self conniptions over whether everyone is having fun too. People come they play and they go. If people didn't show up there would be something to complain about.
I, for one, have never placed in the current regime's top 4. When I do play I tend to play with my idea of fun decks (Sphinges Bidding? fun times). That's the price I pay for sticking to my principles. It is not on everyone else to follow that example. And frankly I stopped playing heavily because the majority seem to enjoy the shoehorned approach.
2-1 is a good result for a first time. Take the wins and leave the losses. Expect the gamut of the legacy/classic world and bring cards accordingly. (Disenchants, plows, wraths, sweepers, etc.) There is no such thing as "unfair" in the apocalypse.
As for this not being about Goblins and Elves well for a long time that was exactly what it was before people started bringing shoehorned decks. Goblins and Elves fit quite well in both worlds and need little tweaking. (Cf: Glimpse of Nature for example.) Any tribe can win given the right player and the right support cards. It also matters a lot who you face and what they are playing.
I think Apaulogy has played that deck before and I don't think he did as well. I think he has tuned it quite a bit over time. I think THAT is what is being applauded. Also there is nothing new about Counter Top or even using it in Tribal Wars. What is new is this specific deck not losing.
I believe Praetor's Grasp is not affected by the cage, as it casts an exiled card, not a card from a library.
I'm always impressed to see a such amount of quality & quantity contents in classic related article... and this new one shows it again very well.