The Vesuvan is in the "upkeep" matters deck, I casually mentioned you can switch him during your various upkeeps-- in that deck explanation, but I never said you can switch him back and forth between stuffy dolls-- just that you can switch him around during those upkeeps, which I should have clarified. If I went with clone in that deck, of course it could clone stuffy and never change, but vesuvan has the option of doing the same thing cloning stuffy when it EtB, but then swithing to a differenft creature during your various upkeeps, if need be :), like a Dragonmaster Outcast.
I thought the transreliquant would copy the stuffy as is, including its already chosen player; though to be honest I've never tested that and as you can see that particular artifact isn't in any of my deck builds. I'll have to make a test-deck and try it out, though I'm not calling you wrong or anything I just have to know for certain. Thanks!
Rock: Rock and his Millions was in. It got split. Angry Hermit does the Squirrels and Hermits better, and Corrupter Black and Napster do the LD and discard better.
White Weenie: Kithkin mad the almost in list. Old Empyrial Armor decks are just not good enough. I know - I have a complete copy of the World Champs white weenie build together, and played it against some modern decks. Close, but no cigar. Straight beatdown decks from back when creatures were garbage are almost all underpowered. I included Stompy simply because it had Gaea's Cradle. The Goblins build has Patriarch's Bidding, etc. I wanted decks that did unusal things. Beatdown is not unusual - not powerful enough.
BTW - no block decks, no extended decks. Standard only.
Paul: It's because I'm curious. I was wondering whether modern decks were really better, or just different. Besides, I like playing around with old decks and archetypes, and people liked the Extended version of this tournament.
I have seen Echoing Decay, Disfigure, and Tendrils of Corruption as the creature kill elements of choice as well.
Nameless Inversion is flexible in that it can be used for pump once something like Vampire Hounds is very large, but the April 25 version of Tortured Existence that reached the top 8 leveraged the creature reuse of Infernal Caretaker to recycle Nameless Inversion. That combo is pretty mana expensive (7 mana to cast and flip the Caretaker), but in late games that is very doable.
Which will be Legacy. Nothing like a big tournament to spur the format. The frequency and weight of Legacy DEs firing is also growing, probably in anticipation of the same thing.
I liked this article, knowing almost nothing about Pauper. One (somewhat random) question; Why do the tortured existence decks run nameless inversion over something like last gasp? Is the loss of creature type relevant, or do they sometimes use it as a pump spell or something?
You have to be careful when cloning a Stuffy Doll. The chosen player is only chosen during Stuffy Doll's EtB trigger. So a Clone or Rite of Replication effect will allow you to chose a player for each new copy. But a Mizzum Transreliquat will not! Vesuvan Doppelganger will work if it EtB as a Stuffy, but not if you switch to one.
"The card that made Wildfires so silly was Magnivore... and the myriad of sorcery speed land disruption effects. Right now, there's no such amazing interaction"
I really like the IzzetPost deck mainly because they remind me of the greatest Magic Pre-Con of all time...Sparkler from Stronghold. Only it won with Fanning the Flames. It was still probably the best pre-con playwise ever released.
Nice article! I find this the most difficult deck to draft in ROE because there are so many options, and you often end up with so many playables because no one else wants the cards you really want. Also great point about not wanting to draft this deck unless it is open, I've tried to force it a couple times to brutal effect.
Stuffy Doll is some fun, and what makes me happiest about this aritcle is that you don't even mention the combo that I have been working into a tribal deck.
From a archtype perspective, I think Dead Guy Red and Brawler Ponza are very similar decks, I would even go so far as to put Covetous Wildfire into that same category.
Napster and Corrupter Black are also very similar, using similar discard, threats, and Yawgmoth's Will.
And Nassif's 5 color control and Chapin 5CB are definitely too similar, I really had to strain to find a some differences there.
By my count, you have 3 mono-red decks (Dead Guy Red, Brawler Ponza, Covetous Wildfire) and 1 almost mono-red deck (Goblin Bidding). 3 mono-blue decks (Cuneo Blue, Tolarian Blue, Tinker). 3 mono-black decks (NecroPotence, Napster, Corrupter Black). 1 mono-green deck (Stompy). and 0 mono-white decks.
I really think White Weenie deserved a spot in these final 32, not only for diversity's sake, but it actually deserves a spot. White Weenie has been such a serious contender for so long throughout the history of Magic, winning regionals, nationals and pro tours. Some memorable ones were Pro Tour New York/Pro Tour Lin Sivvi 2000 (Masques Block Constructed) where 6 of the top 8 decks where mono-white rebels and Pro Tour Chicago 2000 (Standard) where Kai Budde's aggro rebels splash green faced off vs Kamiel Cornelissen's counter-rebels in the finals.
Competitive White Weenie decks throughout history includes Tithe+Empyrial armor during Mirage, Shadow+En-Kor+Cursed Scroll during Tempest, Waylay+Crusade aka White Lightning during Urza's, infamous Rebels during Masques, Punisher White during Onslaught, Kithin during Lorwyn and many many more.
So is it too late now to replace one of these similar decks with a white weenie deck? Most matches hasn't started yet, so its not too late!
Might the ravnica-era Boros deck have been a good "white-weenie"? Iseem to remember it being absolutely everywhere for a while.
The Vesuvan is in the "upkeep" matters deck, I casually mentioned you can switch him during your various upkeeps-- in that deck explanation, but I never said you can switch him back and forth between stuffy dolls-- just that you can switch him around during those upkeeps, which I should have clarified. If I went with clone in that deck, of course it could clone stuffy and never change, but vesuvan has the option of doing the same thing cloning stuffy when it EtB, but then swithing to a differenft creature during your various upkeeps, if need be :), like a Dragonmaster Outcast.
I thought the transreliquant would copy the stuffy as is, including its already chosen player; though to be honest I've never tested that and as you can see that particular artifact isn't in any of my deck builds. I'll have to make a test-deck and try it out, though I'm not calling you wrong or anything I just have to know for certain. Thanks!
In / not in:
Rock: Rock and his Millions was in. It got split. Angry Hermit does the Squirrels and Hermits better, and Corrupter Black and Napster do the LD and discard better.
White Weenie: Kithkin mad the almost in list. Old Empyrial Armor decks are just not good enough. I know - I have a complete copy of the World Champs white weenie build together, and played it against some modern decks. Close, but no cigar. Straight beatdown decks from back when creatures were garbage are almost all underpowered. I included Stompy simply because it had Gaea's Cradle. The Goblins build has Patriarch's Bidding, etc. I wanted decks that did unusal things. Beatdown is not unusual - not powerful enough.
BTW - no block decks, no extended decks. Standard only.
Paul: It's because I'm curious. I was wondering whether modern decks were really better, or just different. Besides, I like playing around with old decks and archetypes, and people liked the Extended version of this tournament.
Not to mention the Aurochs Inversion trick.
I have seen Echoing Decay, Disfigure, and Tendrils of Corruption as the creature kill elements of choice as well.
Nameless Inversion is flexible in that it can be used for pump once something like Vampire Hounds is very large, but the April 25 version of Tortured Existence that reached the top 8 leveraged the creature reuse of Infernal Caretaker to recycle Nameless Inversion. That combo is pretty mana expensive (7 mana to cast and flip the Caretaker), but in late games that is very doable.
Which will be Legacy. Nothing like a big tournament to spur the format. The frequency and weight of Legacy DEs firing is also growing, probably in anticipation of the same thing.
I liked this article, knowing almost nothing about Pauper. One (somewhat random) question; Why do the tortured existence decks run nameless inversion over something like last gasp? Is the loss of creature type relevant, or do they sometimes use it as a pump spell or something?
You have to be careful when cloning a Stuffy Doll. The chosen player is only chosen during Stuffy Doll's EtB trigger. So a Clone or Rite of Replication effect will allow you to chose a player for each new copy. But a Mizzum Transreliquat will not! Vesuvan Doppelganger will work if it EtB as a Stuffy, but not if you switch to one.
"The card that made Wildfires so silly was Magnivore... and the myriad of sorcery speed land disruption effects. Right now, there's no such amazing interaction"
Knight of the Reliquary!
I really like the IzzetPost deck mainly because they remind me of the greatest Magic Pre-Con of all time...Sparkler from Stronghold. Only it won with Fanning the Flames. It was still probably the best pre-con playwise ever released.
Nice article! I find this the most difficult deck to draft in ROE because there are so many options, and you often end up with so many playables because no one else wants the cards you really want. Also great point about not wanting to draft this deck unless it is open, I've tried to force it a couple times to brutal effect.
play me sometime, and unleash your combo!
Stuffy Doll is some fun, and what makes me happiest about this aritcle is that you don't even mention the combo that I have been working into a tribal deck.
Thanks for catching that, I'll get that fixed.
yeah i meant colorless/brown decks. I just didnt want to spend time clarifying 4 colors and colorless/artifacts
4 OTHER colors. Unless you are counting lands/artifacts and eldrazi as their own some how.
then dont play blue...there are five other colors.
Risky Move :D (the card)
edit:
or better yet:
Sorrow's Path+Deathtouch Creature
if every deck (worth playing at your desired level) playing blue plays the card, it IS that strong.
of course many people simply copy the winning decks from "the pros" but thats a different phenomena alltogether.
From a archtype perspective, I think Dead Guy Red and Brawler Ponza are very similar decks, I would even go so far as to put Covetous Wildfire into that same category.
Napster and Corrupter Black are also very similar, using similar discard, threats, and Yawgmoth's Will.
And Nassif's 5 color control and Chapin 5CB are definitely too similar, I really had to strain to find a some differences there.
By my count, you have 3 mono-red decks (Dead Guy Red, Brawler Ponza, Covetous Wildfire) and 1 almost mono-red deck (Goblin Bidding). 3 mono-blue decks (Cuneo Blue, Tolarian Blue, Tinker). 3 mono-black decks (NecroPotence, Napster, Corrupter Black). 1 mono-green deck (Stompy). and 0 mono-white decks.
I really think White Weenie deserved a spot in these final 32, not only for diversity's sake, but it actually deserves a spot. White Weenie has been such a serious contender for so long throughout the history of Magic, winning regionals, nationals and pro tours. Some memorable ones were Pro Tour New York/Pro Tour Lin Sivvi 2000 (Masques Block Constructed) where 6 of the top 8 decks where mono-white rebels and Pro Tour Chicago 2000 (Standard) where Kai Budde's aggro rebels splash green faced off vs Kamiel Cornelissen's counter-rebels in the finals.
Competitive White Weenie decks throughout history includes Tithe+Empyrial armor during Mirage, Shadow+En-Kor+Cursed Scroll during Tempest, Waylay+Crusade aka White Lightning during Urza's, infamous Rebels during Masques, Punisher White during Onslaught, Kithin during Lorwyn and many many more.
So is it too late now to replace one of these similar decks with a white weenie deck? Most matches hasn't started yet, so its not too late!
Fantastic article, and even better resource.
i actually think its phoenices but i am probably wrong
The match-up section was the most interesting, but all of it is great!
Thanks for the data; looks like we've got another month of Rise drafting before M11 hits...
I am sensing a missed joke here ....
~that is all~
There's always more cards to find that go great with another. I bought a couple Phoenixes (phoenixii?) to try out your suggestion.