One thing to note about this tournament, and prismatic, in general, is that the decks can be very good. We don't want to discourage anyone from bringing anything they want to play as long as they fit within the confines of the rules and banned list. While some of the decks may start with a 40 duals/40 fetches manabase, this does not necessarily make them the default winners, because the deckbuilding options in prismatic are almost limitless. Being a team event also helps on this front because you and your teammate can prepare decks to foil the field. For someone without all the money cards who still wants to participate and compete, I'd consider running a deck that punishes non-basic land manabases using cards like Price of Progress, Blood Moon, etc. Other strategic options would be to have one teammate running a combo-centric deck while the other runs a control suite to aid in getting his teammate's combo off. Having such a diverse set of deckbuilding options should make this a very interesting tournament. With almost a full month to prepare, I am excited to see all the innovation that will come out of this tournament.
Also, the tournament is free, so we strongly encourage everyone who can build a prismatic deck (that is, anyone with 250 cards, 20 from each color) to find a teamate (or come anyway and get paired with someone else) and sling some cards. The prizes are bountiful because we really want to drum up interest in this format. Depending on popularity, we will try and host these tournaments regularly.
If you have any questions regarding the tournament, the format, or magic, in general, feel free to message me in game (Username: DeckWizard). If you have any suggestions regarding this tournament, also please comment here or PM one of us in game. Thanks.
Aj only gave a few examples i was able to come up with 10+ in less then 5 mins just type any color word and start search for abusive uses and then compare to how harmful grindstone is with pretty much any cards and you quickly see why painters was banned rather then the stone.
Also to note any tribal deck uses utility cards in their last 16-20 slots and painter can certainly be called a utility card.
hopefully after a few weeks of this revamp'd format people will see that I was at least an ass with a purpose. And im fully aware that we didn't catch everything (tooth and nail or hypergenesis anyone?) But I'd call this a great start that hopefully everyone will be happy with.
hell for one of the most vocal and active advocates to get things banned (i know odd it was me of all people O.o) i'll keenly feel the bannings as well but as was mentioned earlier The list is only going to push the format into the desired direction and vision that most of the players had in mind so its a good thing.
As a long time prism player I greatly appriciate the idea with this tournament.
I hope you will be able to keep the tournament and maybe even expand it to more. Same goes for me as for Flippers, it will be too late for me to participate - or at least too late to finish!
Again, good luck with it, I hope I will be able to participate at some point!
Heck, AJ admitted himself that his Eldrazi deck was geared to either hardcast or cheat Emrakul into play.
And really, in an environment where Vesuva, Cloudpost, and Urzatron are all legal, hardcasting Emmy isn't exactly as challenging as intended, especially in a tournament where the combos that make Emmy unplayable in Classic are now banned out of the format.
Overall, nice job on balancing out everyone's opinions on the banned list.
One thing I would suggest doing is adding rules in case one of the banned cards shows up in the tournament. (May be replaced in deck with a basic land, for instance, with a game loss when it is played).
I think the ban list ended up being a decent compromise. While certainly most users weren't completely satisfied with it, I've yet to meet anyone who think's the PRE will be worse because of it. I think that's a pretty remarkable feat in itself. Trying to stop the worst of combo, while still allowing some to exist in the format is a very tricky feat to pull off. I think most people realize that from this point forward the ban list will is created to keep things fun and playable for everyone. That said, I'm sad to see the demise of my eureka/show and tell eldrazi deck.
I think the thought is that with a 100 tix prize many of the old players might come out of the woodwork, and hopefully some new people who wouldn't have thought about the format look into it.
I'm disappointed to see Iona, Genny and Emmy go: As someone who has tried (and succeeded!) to hardcast all three in their respective tribes, their loss will be keenly felt. However, I recognise the need to attempt to keep combo in check.
Hmm.. I can see how the locks are annoying, but they certainly aren't insurmountable. That is they aren't quite in the same league as the painter/grindstone lock are they?
I mean you've just gotta get rid of the servant right? The cephalid combo only stops blue creatures being played, the law and grace and to be fair any pro:color critter/enchantment/artifact only stops target and damage. Both changes to the game state have leeway to workaround, unlike the instant I win combo of painter/grindstone.
Still I guess it's your tournament and if you don't like those kinds of locks then that's fair. Incidentally, considering that kind lock I'd have thought that the Bitterblossom/Contamination lock might be considered serious enough to be watched for. Especially seeing as you could have in place by turn two regularly with only a single accelerant (chrome mox). Just a thought...
It's actually true that this week's deck isn't a pure rogue deck. So yes, you are right. But I also said the same thing in the article too! This part is taken from the article:
"And so there I was with a very powerful netdeck/rogue deck hybrid."
I also said this in the article:
"And which one will it be this week? A pure home brewed rogue deck or a cutthroat netdeck? The answer dear readers, is neither. And both."
So yes you're right. This week's deck wasen't a rogue deck. But I never claimed that it was going to be!
The whole "story" of the article is how I took a netdeck and personalized it. That's all. And this attempt I called as netdeck / rogue deck hybrid.
Painter has a lot of potential in Tribal: 2-card lock with Llawan, Cephalid Empress, taking out targetted spells and blocking with Absolute Law or Absolute Grace, a whole range of dirty tricks that I was planning to inflic* erm, that someone might bring to the table.
I dont have a problem with rares, mythics or money cards. My problem is when they are used as a crutch, which they consistently are. I understand that jace is the strongest blue card in standard, but that doesnt mean it belongs in every deck playing blue.
The deck listed seems ok, but I definitely feel that in no way is it rogue at all. It is a almost exact copy with 2 cards changed. 2 cards different does not make it rogue.
I read your articles and i know you can make good rogue decks, and I have played you and i know you are a good player, it wasnt meant as a personal attack.
Great stuff, let's hope this article will raise the level of interest to the format.
I myself haven't really started playing yet so to speak. After 2 failed attempts, I finally Top 4'ed with my planeswalkers and that was a start(as I told you online "how" is not important, what's important is that I top 4'ed! don't ask how!).
I still have tons of great decks ready to play, and I will enjoy them in the coming weeks. And while you're out for a while, who knows maybe I'll catch you on the season two standings!
Interesting that you went with Painter's Servant rather than Grindstone as the banned combo card. Aside from Grindstone am I missing another really scary tournie standard combo available with the Painter? I'm somewhat sad you see as I had a nifty little scarecrows deck all worked out but alas it uses the Painter. Now I'll have to seem if it can be retooled without the color setting help of our favourite little servant.
And I was a little confused. I thought your statement in the initial paragraph "A detailed overview of the list will be included later in this article." meant you'd give a discussion on why you'd chosen the cards you did. Guess I'm a little disappointed you didn't do this in the end.
Finally, be honest with me. Did you at any point sneakily consider putting Moat on the banned list? ... What?!? ... I'm just saying is all :)
BYOS is a great format Shard which Flip got me into it, but have been unable to play as many as i like due to other commitments on weekends, same goes for the Tribes.
It very competitive Shard as seen by both Flips and LE articles and decks.
But if you are into current STD and have a strong deck then you have every chance, i have tried 3 different decks so far when been able to join one and if i remember did best with a current STD deck 2-1 but then again i not a very good player/deck builder so i am sure you will do better.
But i like the format and throws up some great and quriky decks.
I wouldn't say you were unwelcome either. Your team however did come across as obnoxious at first glance and that raised some eyebrows. As choleric as Shard gets I am down right belligerent when I think people are deliberately trying to cause trouble. I had no problems with your decks per se as Lord E and others have brought vial fish to the PRE in the past but I will say there was a hope to see less combo, less tier 1 shoehorning and that did not work out that well even without your presence. I think we (collectively all the players at the PRE) owe you guys a small debt for making us rethink the standards for it. I didn't particularly like the attitude you guys brought to the chat but I recognize some of that might just have been over-exuberance on the part of your younger members. Also I believe there is (ironically) a tribal attitude among clans members (in any game) when you feel outside hostility (warranted or not.) I don't think that helped at all.
As far as the PRE being structured to keep Team Rocket out, I imagine you'd find it just as amenable now as it was then though some of the more heinous decks are out (no turn 2 dredge with Bazaar for example) you can still bring FOW/Daze/Fish and Vials. The difference is mainly that the 3-0 winner(s) get 3 tix and the 2-1 winners get 2tix instead of the top 4 getting tix divided among them.
On to your event: 2v2 I assume means teams within chaos? (So just like FFA but you and a team mate gang up on the other guys and whomever is left standing last wins?) Does this mean if you and your team mate are the only ones left you have to play on till there is a winner?
It is interesting to see someone (someones in this case) championing Prismatic which seems in casual to be a barely alive yet extremely broken format. Hope the event goes well. 100tix is insane as PRE prizes go so I imagine the turn out will be enormous.
One thing to note about this tournament, and prismatic, in general, is that the decks can be very good. We don't want to discourage anyone from bringing anything they want to play as long as they fit within the confines of the rules and banned list. While some of the decks may start with a 40 duals/40 fetches manabase, this does not necessarily make them the default winners, because the deckbuilding options in prismatic are almost limitless. Being a team event also helps on this front because you and your teammate can prepare decks to foil the field. For someone without all the money cards who still wants to participate and compete, I'd consider running a deck that punishes non-basic land manabases using cards like Price of Progress, Blood Moon, etc. Other strategic options would be to have one teammate running a combo-centric deck while the other runs a control suite to aid in getting his teammate's combo off. Having such a diverse set of deckbuilding options should make this a very interesting tournament. With almost a full month to prepare, I am excited to see all the innovation that will come out of this tournament.
Also, the tournament is free, so we strongly encourage everyone who can build a prismatic deck (that is, anyone with 250 cards, 20 from each color) to find a teamate (or come anyway and get paired with someone else) and sling some cards. The prizes are bountiful because we really want to drum up interest in this format. Depending on popularity, we will try and host these tournaments regularly.
If you have any questions regarding the tournament, the format, or magic, in general, feel free to message me in game (Username: DeckWizard). If you have any suggestions regarding this tournament, also please comment here or PM one of us in game. Thanks.
Also if people wanted to see some gameplay of the format they are more then welcome to check out my old vids from season one @ http://www.mtgoacademy.com/build-your-own-standard-2/
Aj only gave a few examples i was able to come up with 10+ in less then 5 mins just type any color word and start search for abusive uses and then compare to how harmful grindstone is with pretty much any cards and you quickly see why painters was banned rather then the stone.
Also to note any tribal deck uses utility cards in their last 16-20 slots and painter can certainly be called a utility card.
hopefully after a few weeks of this revamp'd format people will see that I was at least an ass with a purpose. And im fully aware that we didn't catch everything (tooth and nail or hypergenesis anyone?) But I'd call this a great start that hopefully everyone will be happy with.
hell for one of the most vocal and active advocates to get things banned (i know odd it was me of all people O.o) i'll keenly feel the bannings as well but as was mentioned earlier The list is only going to push the format into the desired direction and vision that most of the players had in mind so its a good thing.
As a long time prism player I greatly appriciate the idea with this tournament.
I hope you will be able to keep the tournament and maybe even expand it to more. Same goes for me as for Flippers, it will be too late for me to participate - or at least too late to finish!
Again, good luck with it, I hope I will be able to participate at some point!
Is there any specific room ppl play this format in?
Heck, AJ admitted himself that his Eldrazi deck was geared to either hardcast or cheat Emrakul into play.
And really, in an environment where Vesuva, Cloudpost, and Urzatron are all legal, hardcasting Emmy isn't exactly as challenging as intended, especially in a tournament where the combos that make Emmy unplayable in Classic are now banned out of the format.
Overall, nice job on balancing out everyone's opinions on the banned list.
One thing I would suggest doing is adding rules in case one of the banned cards shows up in the tournament. (May be replaced in deck with a basic land, for instance, with a game loss when it is played).
Lol, if more players were like you and did actually hardcast them they would not have been a problm...sadly, no one wanted to do that.
I think the ban list ended up being a decent compromise. While certainly most users weren't completely satisfied with it, I've yet to meet anyone who think's the PRE will be worse because of it. I think that's a pretty remarkable feat in itself. Trying to stop the worst of combo, while still allowing some to exist in the format is a very tricky feat to pull off. I think most people realize that from this point forward the ban list will is created to keep things fun and playable for everyone. That said, I'm sad to see the demise of my eureka/show and tell eldrazi deck.
I think the thought is that with a 100 tix prize many of the old players might come out of the woodwork, and hopefully some new people who wouldn't have thought about the format look into it.
Cephalids, when I tried it. Flimsy creatures, but awesome trickery capability.
I'm disappointed to see Iona, Genny and Emmy go: As someone who has tried (and succeeded!) to hardcast all three in their respective tribes, their loss will be keenly felt. However, I recognise the need to attempt to keep combo in check.
and seriously... scarecrows and cephalids in the same tribal deck? What tribe are you playing? Mongrel? :)
Hmm.. I can see how the locks are annoying, but they certainly aren't insurmountable. That is they aren't quite in the same league as the painter/grindstone lock are they?
I mean you've just gotta get rid of the servant right? The cephalid combo only stops blue creatures being played, the law and grace and to be fair any pro:color critter/enchantment/artifact only stops target and damage. Both changes to the game state have leeway to workaround, unlike the instant I win combo of painter/grindstone.
Still I guess it's your tournament and if you don't like those kinds of locks then that's fair. Incidentally, considering that kind lock I'd have thought that the Bitterblossom/Contamination lock might be considered serious enough to be watched for. Especially seeing as you could have in place by turn two regularly with only a single accelerant (chrome mox). Just a thought...
It's okay, we're good no worries.
It's actually true that this week's deck isn't a pure rogue deck. So yes, you are right. But I also said the same thing in the article too! This part is taken from the article:
"And so there I was with a very powerful netdeck/rogue deck hybrid."
I also said this in the article:
"And which one will it be this week? A pure home brewed rogue deck or a cutthroat netdeck? The answer dear readers, is neither. And both."
So yes you're right. This week's deck wasen't a rogue deck. But I never claimed that it was going to be!
The whole "story" of the article is how I took a netdeck and personalized it. That's all. And this attempt I called as netdeck / rogue deck hybrid.
I hope we're clear now.
LE
Painter has a lot of potential in Tribal: 2-card lock with Llawan, Cephalid Empress, taking out targetted spells and blocking with Absolute Law or Absolute Grace, a whole range of dirty tricks that I was planning to inflic* erm, that someone might bring to the table.
I dont have a problem with rares, mythics or money cards. My problem is when they are used as a crutch, which they consistently are. I understand that jace is the strongest blue card in standard, but that doesnt mean it belongs in every deck playing blue.
The deck listed seems ok, but I definitely feel that in no way is it rogue at all. It is a almost exact copy with 2 cards changed. 2 cards different does not make it rogue.
I read your articles and i know you can make good rogue decks, and I have played you and i know you are a good player, it wasnt meant as a personal attack.
Great stuff, let's hope this article will raise the level of interest to the format.
I myself haven't really started playing yet so to speak. After 2 failed attempts, I finally Top 4'ed with my planeswalkers and that was a start(as I told you online "how" is not important, what's important is that I top 4'ed! don't ask how!).
I still have tons of great decks ready to play, and I will enjoy them in the coming weeks. And while you're out for a while, who knows maybe I'll catch you on the season two standings!
LE
Interesting that you went with Painter's Servant rather than Grindstone as the banned combo card. Aside from Grindstone am I missing another really scary tournie standard combo available with the Painter? I'm somewhat sad you see as I had a nifty little scarecrows deck all worked out but alas it uses the Painter. Now I'll have to seem if it can be retooled without the color setting help of our favourite little servant.
And I was a little confused. I thought your statement in the initial paragraph "A detailed overview of the list will be included later in this article." meant you'd give a discussion on why you'd chosen the cards you did. Guess I'm a little disappointed you didn't do this in the end.
Finally, be honest with me. Did you at any point sneakily consider putting Moat on the banned list? ... What?!? ... I'm just saying is all :)
BYOS is a great format Shard which Flip got me into it, but have been unable to play as many as i like due to other commitments on weekends, same goes for the Tribes.
It very competitive Shard as seen by both Flips and LE articles and decks.
But if you are into current STD and have a strong deck then you have every chance, i have tried 3 different decks so far when been able to join one and if i remember did best with a current STD deck 2-1 but then again i not a very good player/deck builder so i am sure you will do better.
But i like the format and throws up some great and quriky decks.
Looks like a fun event sadly for me the time the event starts converts to a midnight start so I wont be able to attend.
I hear Fae do not much like Volcanic Fallout. Just a rumor.
Welcome to Puremtgo, nice to see you contribute.
I wouldn't say you were unwelcome either. Your team however did come across as obnoxious at first glance and that raised some eyebrows. As choleric as Shard gets I am down right belligerent when I think people are deliberately trying to cause trouble. I had no problems with your decks per se as Lord E and others have brought vial fish to the PRE in the past but I will say there was a hope to see less combo, less tier 1 shoehorning and that did not work out that well even without your presence. I think we (collectively all the players at the PRE) owe you guys a small debt for making us rethink the standards for it. I didn't particularly like the attitude you guys brought to the chat but I recognize some of that might just have been over-exuberance on the part of your younger members. Also I believe there is (ironically) a tribal attitude among clans members (in any game) when you feel outside hostility (warranted or not.) I don't think that helped at all.
As far as the PRE being structured to keep Team Rocket out, I imagine you'd find it just as amenable now as it was then though some of the more heinous decks are out (no turn 2 dredge with Bazaar for example) you can still bring FOW/Daze/Fish and Vials. The difference is mainly that the 3-0 winner(s) get 3 tix and the 2-1 winners get 2tix instead of the top 4 getting tix divided among them.
On to your event: 2v2 I assume means teams within chaos? (So just like FFA but you and a team mate gang up on the other guys and whomever is left standing last wins?) Does this mean if you and your team mate are the only ones left you have to play on till there is a winner?
It is interesting to see someone (someones in this case) championing Prismatic which seems in casual to be a barely alive yet extremely broken format. Hope the event goes well. 100tix is insane as PRE prizes go so I imagine the turn out will be enormous.