@Klemzo: I didn't mention those and maybe some other decks too including Allies,
a) Just because I didn't play them myself and this article was about my personal story in ZEN Daily Events and in 2mans.
and
b) Just because nobody in Daily Events played them against me or even if they did, I must have won easily because I don't even remember them.
Tournamet Practice Room is, as the name says, a room for practicing. There you try some new ideas, some new techs and whatnot. Nobody loses anything there for just trying new things. I don't need to practice vampires; I may just take a list to the tournament and hope for a spot in Top-8. So therefore TP Room may give you a very different idea about the meta. The real meta is what people play in Daily Events. And even though people do play some different decks, at the end of the day six out of eight best decks are ALWAYS vampires.
And finally I'm looking forward to your article. Let's see what those Kor people of yours can do.
@mysticknight232: I never played a tournament level deck in ZEN Block which was deep in Red so therefore I always prefered Demolish just because it can easily be splashed into every deck (together with Burst Lightning I must add). But even if I played a deck that could pay the RR part of a card, I think that my choice wouldn't be Lavaball Trap; I would prefer Goblin Ruinblaster.
And in Standard I wouldn't even play Lavaball Trap at all because you never know whether or not you will get the chance to play the card for its trap cost. In ZEN Block it is for certain. But in Standard, I'm not so sure. And the card's normal casting cost is just horrible.
paul i agree with you and wassent trying to ruffle feathers. i was talking purely of exodus here. yea worldwake and rise of the eldrazi could shake things up signifagantly in classic, any new set can. but looking back through history and knowing the power lvl of compeitive classic decks there is only one teir 1 card in exodus and it sits in its throne by a contry mile in terms of impact any other card would have in "cutthroat" classic.
Not too sure about Oath of Druid's playability in limited. Constructed powerhouse, but in draft it's a symmetric effect, so it's only really useful when you are behind in creatures and can oath out something ridiculous. Take it for the tix, but I'd think twice about running it in a limited deck.
what are your feelings about playing the Trap over Demolish? your deck may be a bad example as you're squeezing only one mountain into the deck, but i'm tinking w/ Grixis Control (for standard) and can't decide between the two. on the one hand, a turn 4 Demolish is pretty easy, on the other hand, a turn 5 lavaball trap (assuming the right conditions are met) can be cripplying to an emeria or valakut deck. even maindecking lavaball trap no-a-days isn't a terrible idea since it's a double volcanic fallout plus LD. Another good article, keep the deck ideas coming!
I do not agree with you, ... at least not anymore. Vampires are definitely not the best deck in the format, anymore.
They were, they were cause of all the reasons you stated. They still are, since they have answer to everything. But people discovered new decks. They discovered decks that are much better. Decks like WW, all sorts of UW, UWF and such. There are tons of control decks. From basic replication decks, to ally decks, to luminarch a. deck and the most newest and powerful deck (at least I think so), WW - the Kor horde! :)
I can see you really did write this article for long time, since you started vampires were still popular. Now when you go to tournament practice you see vampire deck every 4-6th match. You also didn't mentioned few other decks that are slowly getting better. And you didn't mentioned my favorite deck of all; WW!
I'm gona submit my article similiar to yours in few days, which will show mostly just decks that are most popular in the format and are evolving (and how).
I finally got logged in! The trick was that I had to go all the way out to the puremtgo homepage .... I was coming in from mtgotraders.com
This was not very intuitive and was very confusing ... I would think that a log-in box would cause a lot less confusion if it was presented where you actually leave the comments on the article itself.
It is also weird that the user name for article posts and forum posts (card contest) are 2 different things.
For the pyromancer's ascension deck, why not try 4x hedron crabs?
Getting 2 counters on the enchantment is prolly the hardest part of the deck. (cos once u ascend, everything seems so easy) Hedron crab dumps at least 4 cards into the yard and you might have something you have in your hand in one of those 4 cards so that you can ascend more quickly?
I don't think traps work too well for the deck cos it's usually very naked on the board and you want to be able to react fast.
very good article and now i feel much better to find out that jund decks are boring aswell. I do believe allies are a secret weapon in this format and even though vampires initially shine the highest, the availability to have a 5/5 or even more bird for 3 on the table is something ppl need to consider. I played allies for a couple of weeks in tribes tourney run by mtgo and won it the first week ( not so lucky the 2nd) and believe with kabira and the life gain they can be unstoppable. A flash allie in the 2nd part? i hope so but if it does i can assure the price rise in all ally cards dramatically. I HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE :)
Hi guys and thanks for all the comments. Last week was very frustrating for me as you can also see, but now getting your positive but more importantly constructive criticism is really worth all that pain.
@rainin6: Unfortunately you won't be seeing me in any ZEN event until Worldwake. I had my lesson already. Thanks but no thanks! You may, however, meet me in TP room playing ZEN.
@Anonymous: ALA block was different. During Shards of Alara I won most of my matches in events with my Jund deck and then switched to Naya and continued winning most of my matches with that deck. And there was always Bant there. And after Conflux I switched to Bant and had HUGE success with it. So ALA Block was richer in terms of deck variations. The meta during the first set of ALA Block was Naya or Jund, equally strong, with Bant and Jund/Naya hybrids (called Dark Naya) as splash. But ZEN is just vampires with WU as splash. Sad but true.
@Paul
I will probably write an article on UG Landfall, but I`m not confident enough in it just yet. You don`t need a card like Opposition for it to be competitive, but the problem is definetly the inabilety to reset the board when playing against Aggro
@Lord Erman and Anomymous
The problem for UW is Mind Slugde for sure, and the best place to start in dealing with that is 4 Spell Pierce. You have a lot of strong cards against Vamps, that invalidate all their random beaters (Lightcaster, DoJ (arguably not that strong), Angel, both Sphinxes).
As for the Vamps v. Valakut MU, Vamps will have trouble keeping at least 1 Valakut away from hittinh play (due to Map). I they use their third turn Sacramenting for Valakuts, and has made room for Slugdes and Sacrament, it`s aggesive start will likely be very dilluted. Also, Valakut runs Gladeharts and Oracles, which means Vamps probly should also play Disfigure, making it even slower. Lastly, I believe more Rg Valakut decks will start to play Baloth again (in the SB), even if the GG-part is can be awkward. That will give it a second realistic route to victory (and UW isn`t playing DoJ post-board to deal with it).
This is still for the most part in the future though. UW is cathing wind, soon Valakut will too :)
Whiffy you are the man but I think you missed my point here. I mean that a future card coming into the environment can turn a might be a contender into a serious contender or could potentially cut down on the effectiveness of oath. I remember there plenty of good decks that beat Oath decks back in the day. We don't know whats coming in World Wake yet. That is all I am saying. I don't like counting hatchlings until they chicken...or something like that.
sure any deck that consistently top 8s is viable and teir 1 but take for example dream halls. it CAN top 8 an event but that dosent mean it is viable. or meybe hermit druid. sure it CAN make top 8 and or 3-1 in de's but chances are its going to miss the money 90% of the time.
that is not viable. yes some cards in exodus CAN make top 8 archtypes but the truth is that oath plays magic differently then any other card in that set, and nothing can break the rules as much as oath does, hence teir 1 out of exodus is oath and everything else is 1.5 at best.
btw thanks for the deck highlight! it served me well when it was it was a zen block release event, but now the formats changed slightly - i think lacerator is a must and my "test out these cards as potential future sb cards" sideboard has been tuned a bit ;)
great article - i like em all, whether its zbc, core set, or kaleidoscope (RIP). i couldn't help but cringe a couple times reading the article. the reason: your emeria angel kept dying to gatekeeper! that shouldn't be happening very often - it's almost always just better to wait a turn to trigger the token, especially since they have a nice grip in hand and not playing anything - usually means they are sitting on a gatekeeper. the only times i've played a emeria t4 against vamps is: (1) they are on the play and i smell a mind sludge. it's better to put it out there on turn 4 and hope they kill it instead of sludging. of course, if they sludge, an emeria in play is better than one in the gy. (2) i'm going to die really soon and i need a blocker - but if that's what's happening i probably was going to lose anyways.
If a deck can consistently top 8 doesn't that define it as a top tier deck? I mean the BEST deck is often never known until the format is stale already. Sometimes it just takes one card to turn the tides.
It is true that SotP sets the standard but this week stood out above the rest. :) And true enough about primetime. And true again that you guys did give Hammy props when he took a week off. I see nothing wrong with a little self-aggrandizement occasionally as long as you aren't doing it at someone else's expense. Though of course it does add to the overall excellence of THIS project that you guys are so scrupulous about how you mention articles. I for one am looking forward very much to the next AJ Impy article btw (hint hint).
yes, yes i did thank you and you are all welcome
@Klemzo: I didn't mention those and maybe some other decks too including Allies,
a) Just because I didn't play them myself and this article was about my personal story in ZEN Daily Events and in 2mans.
and
b) Just because nobody in Daily Events played them against me or even if they did, I must have won easily because I don't even remember them.
Tournamet Practice Room is, as the name says, a room for practicing. There you try some new ideas, some new techs and whatnot. Nobody loses anything there for just trying new things. I don't need to practice vampires; I may just take a list to the tournament and hope for a spot in Top-8. So therefore TP Room may give you a very different idea about the meta. The real meta is what people play in Daily Events. And even though people do play some different decks, at the end of the day six out of eight best decks are ALWAYS vampires.
And finally I'm looking forward to your article. Let's see what those Kor people of yours can do.
@mysticknight232: I never played a tournament level deck in ZEN Block which was deep in Red so therefore I always prefered Demolish just because it can easily be splashed into every deck (together with Burst Lightning I must add). But even if I played a deck that could pay the RR part of a card, I think that my choice wouldn't be Lavaball Trap; I would prefer Goblin Ruinblaster.
And in Standard I wouldn't even play Lavaball Trap at all because you never know whether or not you will get the chance to play the card for its trap cost. In ZEN Block it is for certain. But in Standard, I'm not so sure. And the card's normal casting cost is just horrible.
Thanks for the comments.
LE
paul i agree with you and wassent trying to ruffle feathers. i was talking purely of exodus here. yea worldwake and rise of the eldrazi could shake things up signifagantly in classic, any new set can. but looking back through history and knowing the power lvl of compeitive classic decks there is only one teir 1 card in exodus and it sits in its throne by a contry mile in terms of impact any other card would have in "cutthroat" classic.
Not too sure about Oath of Druid's playability in limited. Constructed powerhouse, but in draft it's a symmetric effect, so it's only really useful when you are behind in creatures and can oath out something ridiculous. Take it for the tix, but I'd think twice about running it in a limited deck.
what are your feelings about playing the Trap over Demolish? your deck may be a bad example as you're squeezing only one mountain into the deck, but i'm tinking w/ Grixis Control (for standard) and can't decide between the two. on the one hand, a turn 4 Demolish is pretty easy, on the other hand, a turn 5 lavaball trap (assuming the right conditions are met) can be cripplying to an emeria or valakut deck. even maindecking lavaball trap no-a-days isn't a terrible idea since it's a double volcanic fallout plus LD. Another good article, keep the deck ideas coming!
eh i wondered how long it would take for someone to copy and paste the base ascension list looks like we have a winner with Cruel Ascenision
I do not agree with you, ... at least not anymore. Vampires are definitely not the best deck in the format, anymore.
They were, they were cause of all the reasons you stated. They still are, since they have answer to everything. But people discovered new decks. They discovered decks that are much better. Decks like WW, all sorts of UW, UWF and such. There are tons of control decks. From basic replication decks, to ally decks, to luminarch a. deck and the most newest and powerful deck (at least I think so), WW - the Kor horde! :)
I can see you really did write this article for long time, since you started vampires were still popular. Now when you go to tournament practice you see vampire deck every 4-6th match. You also didn't mentioned few other decks that are slowly getting better. And you didn't mentioned my favorite deck of all; WW!
I'm gona submit my article similiar to yours in few days, which will show mostly just decks that are most popular in the format and are evolving (and how).
Anyways, lovely article. :)
I finally got logged in! The trick was that I had to go all the way out to the puremtgo homepage .... I was coming in from mtgotraders.com
This was not very intuitive and was very confusing ... I would think that a log-in box would cause a lot less confusion if it was presented where you actually leave the comments on the article itself.
It is also weird that the user name for article posts and forum posts (card contest) are 2 different things.
Thanks to those that tried to help.
~ rushmore111
For the pyromancer's ascension deck, why not try 4x hedron crabs?
Getting 2 counters on the enchantment is prolly the hardest part of the deck. (cos once u ascend, everything seems so easy) Hedron crab dumps at least 4 cards into the yard and you might have something you have in your hand in one of those 4 cards so that you can ascend more quickly?
I don't think traps work too well for the deck cos it's usually very naked on the board and you want to be able to react fast.
=)
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
4 Gomazoa
4 Rite of Replication
3 Cancel
3 Spell Pierce
4 Time Warp
2 Volcanic Fallout
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Into the Roil
2 Jace Beleren
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Magosi, the Waterveil
8 Island
7 Mountain
Sideboard
3 Windrider Eel
3 Plated Geopede
2 Volcanic Fallout
3 Twincast
4 Mind Control
instant [16]
4 Burst Lightning
4 Into the Roil
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
sorcery [14]
2 Banefire
4 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Ponder
1 Pyroclasm
3 Time Warp
enchantment [3]
3 Pyromancer Ascension
land [25]
4 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Dragonskull Summit
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
4 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
planeswalker [2]
2 Jace Beleren
very good article and now i feel much better to find out that jund decks are boring aswell. I do believe allies are a secret weapon in this format and even though vampires initially shine the highest, the availability to have a 5/5 or even more bird for 3 on the table is something ppl need to consider. I played allies for a couple of weeks in tribes tourney run by mtgo and won it the first week ( not so lucky the 2nd) and believe with kabira and the life gain they can be unstoppable. A flash allie in the 2nd part? i hope so but if it does i can assure the price rise in all ally cards dramatically. I HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE :)
4/5 good , MENTION ALLIES
Sounds like an amazing time. Thanks for sharing it with us, Spike!
Hi guys and thanks for all the comments. Last week was very frustrating for me as you can also see, but now getting your positive but more importantly constructive criticism is really worth all that pain.
@rainin6: Unfortunately you won't be seeing me in any ZEN event until Worldwake. I had my lesson already. Thanks but no thanks! You may, however, meet me in TP room playing ZEN.
@Anonymous: ALA block was different. During Shards of Alara I won most of my matches in events with my Jund deck and then switched to Naya and continued winning most of my matches with that deck. And there was always Bant there. And after Conflux I switched to Bant and had HUGE success with it. So ALA Block was richer in terms of deck variations. The meta during the first set of ALA Block was Naya or Jund, equally strong, with Bant and Jund/Naya hybrids (called Dark Naya) as splash. But ZEN is just vampires with WU as splash. Sad but true.
Thanks again for all the comments.
LE
Great article. A kicked Rite of Replication is also nasty when cast on an opponent's Malakir Bloodwitch.
@Paul
I will probably write an article on UG Landfall, but I`m not confident enough in it just yet. You don`t need a card like Opposition for it to be competitive, but the problem is definetly the inabilety to reset the board when playing against Aggro
@Lord Erman and Anomymous
The problem for UW is Mind Slugde for sure, and the best place to start in dealing with that is 4 Spell Pierce. You have a lot of strong cards against Vamps, that invalidate all their random beaters (Lightcaster, DoJ (arguably not that strong), Angel, both Sphinxes).
As for the Vamps v. Valakut MU, Vamps will have trouble keeping at least 1 Valakut away from hittinh play (due to Map). I they use their third turn Sacramenting for Valakuts, and has made room for Slugdes and Sacrament, it`s aggesive start will likely be very dilluted. Also, Valakut runs Gladeharts and Oracles, which means Vamps probly should also play Disfigure, making it even slower. Lastly, I believe more Rg Valakut decks will start to play Baloth again (in the SB), even if the GG-part is can be awkward. That will give it a second realistic route to victory (and UW isn`t playing DoJ post-board to deal with it).
This is still for the most part in the future though. UW is cathing wind, soon Valakut will too :)
Oath itself is a tier one deck for sure, but there are some cards in this set that belong in tier one decks for sure.
want to hear people complain about an annoying deck, build one based around timesifter
is there any way i can subscribe to this podcast on my zune or do i have to manually download it every week?
Whiffy you are the man but I think you missed my point here. I mean that a future card coming into the environment can turn a might be a contender into a serious contender or could potentially cut down on the effectiveness of oath. I remember there plenty of good decks that beat Oath decks back in the day. We don't know whats coming in World Wake yet. That is all I am saying. I don't like counting hatchlings until they chicken...or something like that.
the qualifyer for viable was the word can.
sure any deck that consistently top 8s is viable and teir 1 but take for example dream halls. it CAN top 8 an event but that dosent mean it is viable. or meybe hermit druid. sure it CAN make top 8 and or 3-1 in de's but chances are its going to miss the money 90% of the time.
that is not viable. yes some cards in exodus CAN make top 8 archtypes but the truth is that oath plays magic differently then any other card in that set, and nothing can break the rules as much as oath does, hence teir 1 out of exodus is oath and everything else is 1.5 at best.
btw thanks for the deck highlight! it served me well when it was it was a zen block release event, but now the formats changed slightly - i think lacerator is a must and my "test out these cards as potential future sb cards" sideboard has been tuned a bit ;)
great article - i like em all, whether its zbc, core set, or kaleidoscope (RIP). i couldn't help but cringe a couple times reading the article. the reason: your emeria angel kept dying to gatekeeper! that shouldn't be happening very often - it's almost always just better to wait a turn to trigger the token, especially since they have a nice grip in hand and not playing anything - usually means they are sitting on a gatekeeper. the only times i've played a emeria t4 against vamps is: (1) they are on the play and i smell a mind sludge. it's better to put it out there on turn 4 and hope they kill it instead of sludging. of course, if they sludge, an emeria in play is better than one in the gy. (2) i'm going to die really soon and i need a blocker - but if that's what's happening i probably was going to lose anyways.
keep up the good work and see ya in the dailys!
If a deck can consistently top 8 doesn't that define it as a top tier deck? I mean the BEST deck is often never known until the format is stale already. Sometimes it just takes one card to turn the tides.
It is true that SotP sets the standard but this week stood out above the rest. :) And true enough about primetime. And true again that you guys did give Hammy props when he took a week off. I see nothing wrong with a little self-aggrandizement occasionally as long as you aren't doing it at someone else's expense. Though of course it does add to the overall excellence of THIS project that you guys are so scrupulous about how you mention articles. I for one am looking forward very much to the next AJ Impy article btw (hint hint).