well no matter the case, win or lose, its always better when you crack the duel. you win the game but its across the table, well, thats a win, but its still no duel. 9 drafts and counting....:)
""These individuals that are playing T1 decks in the casual room are either A) pathetic individuals that loves to prey on easy targets, B) normal players that want to test their decks against humans instead of running solitaires (important for control decks) or C) scrubs that don't have the guts to play on an even footing.""
---------------------------------------------
Those are such bizarre reactions to people playing a (slightly better) deck than you.
For players with these peculiar rules for what casual "is" and "isn't", the onus is on you to communicate that you can't function normally.
Maybe someone doesn't have time to keep up with the metagame so as to gauge what is a properly "casual deck"? I just want to play some cards. Sometimes, even my rares.
If you are not happy about the game, kindly concede, don't whine or blame others.
Or list your silly restrictions in the "notes" section that MTGO provides.
Or play with your clanmates or in the beginners room.
Good topic.
Not that I necessarily agree wit the tone of the above poster, but I must agree with the spirit. I appreciate the work put into this deck...but so many of the card choices are suboptimal (To put it lightly. Both Broken ambitions and Spell Siphon have no place in current competitive pauper) that it borders on completely unplayable for any competitive purpose. IF that was not your intention, then I apoolgize, as casual decks are another league entirely.
Yeah, Blue/Green is another option that works. I think the nice thing about ME3 drafting is that there are really a bunch of options that work well. I personally did not draft the archetype often enough and therefore did not include it in the list. I wanted to provide archetypes I tested and found fun/playable. As I stated in the article - there are many options and as long as you have a strategy in mind you should be fine.
what does not being a fan of tarmogoyf mean? i can understand that maybe you disagree with it being printed, but it is a straight up dumb beatstick in red decks, black decks, blue decks, combo decks,m and its super easy to splash. If you've ever once tapped 1G and slapped down a 5/6, you'll start to love tarmogoyf. Scute mob doesnt necessarily need evasion (bitterblossoms leaving), as thats less important in normal constructed than pauoer or draft. He makes for a decidedly one-sided race.
The new bounce spell could be solid in mono-blue fish.
I'm super excited for the new suicide black dude.
tattered peaks seems rad.
Goblin bushwacker seems almost broken.
Vines of vashwood-seems amazing; good enough to actually compete for burn slots in RG.
Kor sanctifiers just seems awesome
I'm not sure about the card that makes the 7/1 token; its just so easy to kill x/1s, and red deck wins would proably just rather have keldon marauders or even a random burn spell.
No love for U/G Tempo? Hunting Cheetah acts as card draw when he hits, even though its just lands. And when you have a couple cheap beaters, Forced Retreat, when aggressively drafted, can often be enough to set your opponent back and let you win.
why would you ever, ever run this deck, in standard, or, especially classic?
even the improved lists are mediocre AT BEST...there is no way that this is even close to any fish deck in classic or faeries or a dedicated pants deck in standard? Your creatures are weak, and practically all you plays are card dissadvantage. you should test before you put up an article
I wanted to echo Zimbardo's comment. For 100CS we have somewhat successfully managed to get a few people to only use TP for testing their Tier 1 decks. This is very difficult to do because there are always a few who just insist on using the Casual room either because they need an ego boost or because they can find a game quicker. I know that I have had much more fun since helping promote this effort. I even try to go into casual every once in awhile and play more casual oriented decks, which has been fun.
"Fun" for both players tends to be when you are able to match up power levels of decks and this is something that has always been difficult on MTGO especially when many people mis-evaluate the power of their own decks and the ones they are playing against. For exampl eyou can play a Tier 2 deck against an opponent with a Tier 4 deck and have him yell at you for brining a super competitive deck into the casual room when you know darn well that your deck has no place at all competing in a PE against Teir 1 decks.
"When the concentration of spikes / tier one decks are low, it is reasonably easy to find a fun game."
I just wanted to apologize for the original title. It was a first draft, and I should have fixed it. The new title was always at the top of the actual article - and it is better.
I also want to thank JXC for leaving my original title in. I appreciate his compliments, and the fact that he didn't want to overrule my decisions. In the future, though, when I screw up - feel free to fix it.
Have you checked the cards from today?
There are some REALLY saucy commons. I hope that you've already checked them and that you are going to evaluate them too :) I just can't wait to discuss some of them with someone! This one for example:
WARNING SPOILER AHEAD!!!
Zektar Shrine Expedition
1r
Enchantment Common
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may put a quest counter on Zektar Shrine Expedition.
Remove three quest counters from Zektar Shrine Expedition and sacrifice it: Put a 7/1 red Elemental creature token with haste and trample onto the battlefield. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the end step.
I am the origianl "Chad" in this thread, and I did not make that comment you are responding to ... just so you know. It was someone else using the same name.
Very useful information, Ive done terrible with ME3 and Im starting to see why. I have had Knowledge Vault 4-5 times and not used it, man im kicking myself now. I really need to learn how to evauluate the cards better myself. Once again thanks for the info.
This works with games like Halo, because every game is more or less the same. With Magic, such a system is much harder to implement, because the outcome of each game depends not only on the players' relative skills but also the relative strength of their decks. I personally have decks of wildly varying power levels that all get played in the casual room, because they are not powerful enough to compete in the tournament practice room; I assume most players are in a similar position. Your ranking system breaks down when players switch between decks every few games and wind up always gravitating towards another tier rather than stabilizing on one.
I think one very strong archetype not mentioned is the U/B evasion. Here you draft removal from black, and lot's of evasive creatures horsemanship and stuff like longbowmen and banshees. Demonic torment becomes much stronger because the guys you torment won't be able to block any threats anyway. Throw in some starfish, and other efficient blockers and you'll win the long game, just make sure you have enough to stop them early on. Strategic planning and draw spells play an important role here also.
Very well done article easy to read, and nice lay out. I agree with the above though Counterspell > Broken Ambitions. I'd also change it up a bit adding either Errant Ephemeron.
What if MTGO did like some of the online consoles do and try to pair you up with someone of "equal" skill? My 1st idea was that there were several(around 10 or so) rooms, the bottom being casual and the top being competitive. You can start wherever you want and each time you win, you move up a room and each time you lose you move down a room. At some point the Tier 1 decks would all end up in the top few rooms and all the casual stuff would end up towards the bottom.
Sure someone could just rejoin the bottom room with his Tier 1 to demolish people, but they would have to keep rejoining the room every time they win 1 or 2 games. Seems like a big enough hassle that they might just let it go and keep playing in whatever room they end up in. Or just take away the ability to join a specific room and you can only join in the middle.
I also disagree about the Lions in Draft. Sealed is another story I'd guess...but in Draft the Lions are very-very good. Ive lost to the T1 Lions multiple times. What you say is just not true in Draft.
Its because you can drop it on turn 4 or 5 with counterspell mana open since it only costs 1. That makes it come into play much easier than a 4 or 5 casting cost creature thats bigger. Also, as mentioned above, there are ways to search it out of your deck.
Think about why Tamogoyf (sp?) is so good. Its cause you can drop it early and it becomes larger than 4 or 5 drop creatures...or you can drop it late and still have mana open to do other things, such as counter spelling cards.
Same goes for this little fella. Dedicated control decks will love him...much like Tamogoyf. A couple turns of him in play, protected with counterspells, and the game will be over.
The reason why I did not list Stolen Grain is that most people realize how good the card is and I do not see it go late by any means. Therefore I did not see it as undervalued.
I would agree that Wu Longbowman can be good in Red/Blue. It really depends on how many Bloodlust you pick up and what archetype your opponent is playing.
Landfall + land fetch means decks with lots of lands coming into play fast. So it will be very large fairly early...and you don't necessarily drop it until the turn before you need it.
ok can someone please explain to me what is so amazing about scute mob....sure its grows after turn 5 or so, but it has no ezasion or anything. Is there something Im just failing to comprehend here. And yes I understand it get's +4/+4 every turn...but i still dont see it.
well no matter the case, win or lose, its always better when you crack the duel. you win the game but its across the table, well, thats a win, but its still no duel. 9 drafts and counting....:)
""These individuals that are playing T1 decks in the casual room are either A) pathetic individuals that loves to prey on easy targets, B) normal players that want to test their decks against humans instead of running solitaires (important for control decks) or C) scrubs that don't have the guts to play on an even footing.""
---------------------------------------------
Those are such bizarre reactions to people playing a (slightly better) deck than you.
For players with these peculiar rules for what casual "is" and "isn't", the onus is on you to communicate that you can't function normally.
Maybe someone doesn't have time to keep up with the metagame so as to gauge what is a properly "casual deck"? I just want to play some cards. Sometimes, even my rares.
If you are not happy about the game, kindly concede, don't whine or blame others.
Or list your silly restrictions in the "notes" section that MTGO provides.
Or play with your clanmates or in the beginners room.
Good topic.
Not that I necessarily agree wit the tone of the above poster, but I must agree with the spirit. I appreciate the work put into this deck...but so many of the card choices are suboptimal (To put it lightly. Both Broken ambitions and Spell Siphon have no place in current competitive pauper) that it borders on completely unplayable for any competitive purpose. IF that was not your intention, then I apoolgize, as casual decks are another league entirely.
Try a little harder next time, hmm?
Yeah, Blue/Green is another option that works. I think the nice thing about ME3 drafting is that there are really a bunch of options that work well. I personally did not draft the archetype often enough and therefore did not include it in the list. I wanted to provide archetypes I tested and found fun/playable. As I stated in the article - there are many options and as long as you have a strategy in mind you should be fine.
what does not being a fan of tarmogoyf mean? i can understand that maybe you disagree with it being printed, but it is a straight up dumb beatstick in red decks, black decks, blue decks, combo decks,m and its super easy to splash. If you've ever once tapped 1G and slapped down a 5/6, you'll start to love tarmogoyf. Scute mob doesnt necessarily need evasion (bitterblossoms leaving), as thats less important in normal constructed than pauoer or draft. He makes for a decidedly one-sided race.
The new bounce spell could be solid in mono-blue fish.
I'm super excited for the new suicide black dude.
tattered peaks seems rad.
Goblin bushwacker seems almost broken.
Vines of vashwood-seems amazing; good enough to actually compete for burn slots in RG.
Kor sanctifiers just seems awesome
I'm not sure about the card that makes the 7/1 token; its just so easy to kill x/1s, and red deck wins would proably just rather have keldon marauders or even a random burn spell.
No love for U/G Tempo? Hunting Cheetah acts as card draw when he hits, even though its just lands. And when you have a couple cheap beaters, Forced Retreat, when aggressively drafted, can often be enough to set your opponent back and let you win.
why would you ever, ever run this deck, in standard, or, especially classic?
even the improved lists are mediocre AT BEST...there is no way that this is even close to any fish deck in classic or faeries or a dedicated pants deck in standard? Your creatures are weak, and practically all you plays are card dissadvantage. you should test before you put up an article
well its a good thing i was talking about sealed only in this article.
I wanted to echo Zimbardo's comment. For 100CS we have somewhat successfully managed to get a few people to only use TP for testing their Tier 1 decks. This is very difficult to do because there are always a few who just insist on using the Casual room either because they need an ego boost or because they can find a game quicker. I know that I have had much more fun since helping promote this effort. I even try to go into casual every once in awhile and play more casual oriented decks, which has been fun.
"Fun" for both players tends to be when you are able to match up power levels of decks and this is something that has always been difficult on MTGO especially when many people mis-evaluate the power of their own decks and the ones they are playing against. For exampl eyou can play a Tier 2 deck against an opponent with a Tier 4 deck and have him yell at you for brining a super competitive deck into the casual room when you know darn well that your deck has no place at all competing in a PE against Teir 1 decks.
"When the concentration of spikes / tier one decks are low, it is reasonably easy to find a fun game."
If you are a spike this statement is false.
I just wanted to apologize for the original title. It was a first draft, and I should have fixed it. The new title was always at the top of the actual article - and it is better.
I also want to thank JXC for leaving my original title in. I appreciate his compliments, and the fact that he didn't want to overrule my decisions. In the future, though, when I screw up - feel free to fix it.
Thanks.
I thought this article was for commons, not just spoilers in general and the last time I checked, the gold symbol means it's Rare.
Have you checked the cards from today?
There are some REALLY saucy commons. I hope that you've already checked them and that you are going to evaluate them too :) I just can't wait to discuss some of them with someone! This one for example:
WARNING SPOILER AHEAD!!!
Zektar Shrine Expedition
1r
Enchantment Common
Landfall - Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may put a quest counter on Zektar Shrine Expedition.
Remove three quest counters from Zektar Shrine Expedition and sacrifice it: Put a 7/1 red Elemental creature token with haste and trample onto the battlefield. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the end step.
I am the origianl "Chad" in this thread, and I did not make that comment you are responding to ... just so you know. It was someone else using the same name.
Very useful information, Ive done terrible with ME3 and Im starting to see why. I have had Knowledge Vault 4-5 times and not used it, man im kicking myself now. I really need to learn how to evauluate the cards better myself. Once again thanks for the info.
This works with games like Halo, because every game is more or less the same. With Magic, such a system is much harder to implement, because the outcome of each game depends not only on the players' relative skills but also the relative strength of their decks. I personally have decks of wildly varying power levels that all get played in the casual room, because they are not powerful enough to compete in the tournament practice room; I assume most players are in a similar position. Your ranking system breaks down when players switch between decks every few games and wind up always gravitating towards another tier rather than stabilizing on one.
I think one very strong archetype not mentioned is the U/B evasion. Here you draft removal from black, and lot's of evasive creatures horsemanship and stuff like longbowmen and banshees. Demonic torment becomes much stronger because the guys you torment won't be able to block any threats anyway. Throw in some starfish, and other efficient blockers and you'll win the long game, just make sure you have enough to stop them early on. Strategic planning and draw spells play an important role here also.
are there going to be good enough counterspells in standard though? i mean the big one is leaving?
also i was never a fan a tarmogoyf, so that could be why i didnt see it at first.
Very well done article easy to read, and nice lay out. I agree with the above though Counterspell > Broken Ambitions. I'd also change it up a bit adding either Errant Ephemeron.
3 Slippery Bogle
3 Pestermite
3 Noggle Bandit
3 Stream Hopper
3 Riverfall Mimic
2 Errant Ephemeron
17
4 Counterspell
4 Boomerang
4 Clout of the Dominus
4 Favor of the Overbeing
2 Ponder
2 Compulsive Research (or Foresee)
20
23 Island
What if MTGO did like some of the online consoles do and try to pair you up with someone of "equal" skill? My 1st idea was that there were several(around 10 or so) rooms, the bottom being casual and the top being competitive. You can start wherever you want and each time you win, you move up a room and each time you lose you move down a room. At some point the Tier 1 decks would all end up in the top few rooms and all the casual stuff would end up towards the bottom.
Sure someone could just rejoin the bottom room with his Tier 1 to demolish people, but they would have to keep rejoining the room every time they win 1 or 2 games. Seems like a big enough hassle that they might just let it go and keep playing in whatever room they end up in. Or just take away the ability to join a specific room and you can only join in the middle.
I also disagree about the Lions in Draft. Sealed is another story I'd guess...but in Draft the Lions are very-very good. Ive lost to the T1 Lions multiple times. What you say is just not true in Draft.
-M
Its because you can drop it on turn 4 or 5 with counterspell mana open since it only costs 1. That makes it come into play much easier than a 4 or 5 casting cost creature thats bigger. Also, as mentioned above, there are ways to search it out of your deck.
Think about why Tamogoyf (sp?) is so good. Its cause you can drop it early and it becomes larger than 4 or 5 drop creatures...or you can drop it late and still have mana open to do other things, such as counter spelling cards.
Same goes for this little fella. Dedicated control decks will love him...much like Tamogoyf. A couple turns of him in play, protected with counterspells, and the game will be over.
-M
The reason why I did not list Stolen Grain is that most people realize how good the card is and I do not see it go late by any means. Therefore I did not see it as undervalued.
I would agree that Wu Longbowman can be good in Red/Blue. It really depends on how many Bloodlust you pick up and what archetype your opponent is playing.
Landfall + land fetch means decks with lots of lands coming into play fast. So it will be very large fairly early...and you don't necessarily drop it until the turn before you need it.
ok can someone please explain to me what is so amazing about scute mob....sure its grows after turn 5 or so, but it has no ezasion or anything. Is there something Im just failing to comprehend here. And yes I understand it get's +4/+4 every turn...but i still dont see it.