Judging from the list of cards from there, I'd say it's a pretty good buy for someone who needs a base but... value-wise, if you consider how much these would probably cost at retail rates, I think you might be better off buying from bots (mtgotraders ones since you're here =p)
Of course, they have yet to make any announcements regarding the price so I would think it would be good to see whether or not the value is worth what you are paying.
(I'll be getting it for the "new" cards....... they generally know how to sell stuff... unless they start banning their "star buys" like they did with demonic tutor for DvD)
do note: there are 3 unplayable cards in there due to bannings in the 100c singleton format
instead of mobilization, you can run goblin assault. I've been also using angelic chorus for life gain and glorious anthem for beef, but they too get axed from standard soon.
He doesn't really have enough Swamps to justify Tendrils in his sideboard. Golgari Brownscale would probably offer a better alternative that fits into a recursion theme while also providing lifegain.
I think the first thing is that the deck has too much targeted discard. 10 spells and 2 Okiba-Gangs is going to lead to a lot of blank cards against aggro once they've emptied their hand. I would relegate Duress/Ostracize to the board (Distress would be a better overall option, but as already noted, the double black requirement is probably prohibitive) and just have Psychotic Episode (probably upping it to 4) and Okiba-Gang MD.
I think you should consider taking the discard/madness focus to the logical conclusion and add significant recursion cards to the deck. If you have 4 Mongrel, 4 Raiders, and then add Tortured Existence as another discard outlet, you should have no problem adding Grave Scrabbler alongside Rootwalla for a bit of resilience. Dark Withering would also seem to be a potentially good option if you don't want to spring for the Edicts, as it's really only bad against MBC, while being very good against aggro decks and Affinity.
So, to summarize, I would add:
+4 Grave Scrabbler
+2 Psychotic Episode
+4 Dark Withering
+3 Tortured Existence
+1 Gathan Raiders
And subtract:
-4 Duress (to the sideboard)
-3 Ostracize
-4 Viscera Dragger (generally worse as a recursion effect than Scrabbler)
-2 Echoing Decay (to the sideboard for goblin storm)
-1 Nameless Inversion (good against Slivers, but less good than Withering in most matchups)
That would give you 7 MD discard effects, 7 MD versatile removal, more discard outlets, and more abuse of those discard outlets. And Tortured Existence will give you a great deal of reach barring graveyard hate in the form of Relic of Progenitus.
Dont know if your interested in it, or have the ability to do it, but modosharks would camtasia live as they drafted, discussing picks while they came etc. Camtasia does have a free 30 day trial. I am going to be doing one of these come m10 as I am highlighting and testing a particular strategy.
I won the last Pauper PE with the Nightsky Mimic deck and as I agree with most of your sentiments, I would absolutely not get rid of the Oblivion Rings. Oblivion Rings are huge against all the random pro black creatures in the format. I believe in the top 8 I won, one guy was running 12 pro black creatures. They also save your ass from random COP Blacks. My decklist was not running Standard Bearers in the sideboard (Huge Mistake) because they protect you from what I found out is probably one of the most annoying cards to deal with, Obsidian Acoylte. The bearers are also amazing against cloak (obviously) and really really good against slivers(Their only "removal" is usually temporal isolation and also nullifies their pump spells). Some other things to take into consideration is Phyrexian Ragers don't really pull their weight. I think a useful alternative to them would be Shreiking Grotesque. Also Unmake is amazing in the deck. I found it most useful when being on the other side of an alpha attack with a Mimic in play. Its also great against affinity in response to a Rush Of Knowledge. Crypt Rats are a must because they save your ass against alot of random things but I found myself siding them out more than any other card. Against Cloak they're awful, against slivers they become really bad games 2 and 3 because of prismatic strands and they're really not that great against any of the other top decks at the moment. I agree with you that the manabase is kind of sketchy at times. I think cutting a barren moor for a swamp may help in some regards. But those hands that contain Cycling Land / Orzhov Basilica are kind of demoralizing. Anyways Great Article!
If you play the deck in extended, UBR becomes a much better option since Damnation is at a very reasonable price and you get 2 different B borderposts to make it much easier to cast. You can run Clutch of the Undercity to get your Manabarbs and bounce your opponent's stuff (forcing your opponents to replay their stuff with a manabarb out seems pretty nice) and you have a good selection of counterspells and removal available, with a better manabase.
Even in standard I think it might be decent in grixis colors - the biggest loss from white is the martial coup but considering how hard it can be to cast maybe you'd be alright with infests, draw and pinpoint removal.
If you don't have the removal in hand by turn 3 this Orzhov Aggro variant deck can own you hard. I disagree on the Oblivion Ring it's a "way to deal w/ everything else card not just a creatures" especially in the mirror match. I agree w/ the X4 Crypt Rats, and relay dislike the Beckon Apparition but grave yard hate in the current pdc meta is a good to be certain.
I like the article, but some game recaps showing how the deck plays is always appreciated. You should also add a side board which maybe should have Tendrils of Corruption, and maybe Essence Warden to battle fast burn range decks for starters. I still think Distress is better then Duress, or Ostracize but requires a larger commitment to playing black as well.
I loved the intro to this. Made me really laugh out loud. On the other hand I have to say I wish you'd included some matches and color commentary on how people reacted to your "cheating" ways.
Commander theme decks:
I would get them because they have "new cards". I've not seen the decklists (although I have a small list of what the "new cards" are) so I'm afraid I can't say accurately how good a "base for a deck" they are at the moment.
paul: I don't think 50c rares would be very effective too... but the good uncommons tend to be able give you more value for your buck so I'd invest in those to start.
kha: congrats with your deck.. =)
I hate the timings for the tournaments too... =(
tournament practice: it has been said that tournament practice room should be used for tournament practice but at this point in time, people don't tend to go there. I think a relatively effective way would be to advertise your game with "tournament decks" in the comments and set the game to a match. I'm not very sure whether or not most people use the table view (there isn't another view is there?) like I do and click on the name to arrange the format in alphabetical order (this puts 100c singleton at the top of the list) to find a game. If so, the comments on the left should stick out rather prominently. Anyway, the past few times I've played in the tournament practice room looking for a competitive deck for mainstream formats (not 100c singleton), I've met (sorry to be rude) crappy decks that do not belong at all in that room.
Hey guys, unfortunately I didn't realize that tenth edition rotated out BEFORE M10 went on sale, so there are some card choices that don't fly in the new Standard (as of Wednesday).
Fortunately there's nothing too huge. Windborn Muse is probably the biggest one, Story Circle and Mobilization are invalid toolbox enchantments now, Mind Stone is gone, and Incinerate can be replaced with Lightning Bolt. Wrath of God is the toughest replacement.
For someone trying to enter 100CS, how do the new Commander theme decks look? Obviously, I'd take out the Commander and have to work on making the mana base a litle more $$$, but the rest of the deck is packed with very little chaff.
good attempt at making an introductory article on budget decks. a few more builds with a little more budget cap would as mentioned above have been great. looking forward to the jace chandra builds as i feel personaly those are the best boxed sets online.
I built a few casual singleton decks including a 100s deck and a commander 100s deck. I have yet to really play with them though. My collection while not poor isn't great either. I am afraid my 50cent rares wont hold water against the $3-40 rares.
@parabola01: the most budget of singleton 100 decks would probably be RDW because of its many mountains or maybe GW elves with many elves.. counterspells are relatively cheaper than most good spells too.
Usually, the greatest value in a deck is found when you use cards that do very specific functions like having dual lands or maybe "rare" spells like vindicate/force of will/pernicious deed (and maybe the two swords?).. If you look at most decks, the general bulk of good cards are relatively affordable but that being said, that effect is cumulative so a deck would end up quite expensive because of the sheer count of decent cards most people play but most cards have high replayability value unless they belong to a highly specific archetype (which is not very common)...
So far, the only must play card I've had in a color is green=> tarmogoyf and probably sensei's divining top for every deck that cannot find a reason to exclude it.
Staples for me would be most lands and powerful spells like tarmogoyf, fact or fiction, shriekmaw, flametongue kavu, oblivion ring? (cards that are strong and tend to have more generic or colorless mana in their casting cost because they fit even with a minor splash)
@relapsed: From what I found, the painter + grindstone combo is one that goes off when you think it's safe to do so. (or maybe I'm just a chicken) which means you'd usually play into the mid/long game and wear out your opponent's hand or try to exploit a possible blank hand of your opponent at which point there isn't really a difference as to which combo kill you'd want to use to initiate a kill with. Because of that, using a combo that is less vulnerable might actually become a better choice (such as the belcher + mana severance combo).
From personal experience, I've once tried a deck with a bunch of 2 card kills but it did not work out too well as some of the parts just came with others and they did not really work well together on their own.
I would think that 2 2-card combos are more than enough to win the game with. 1 would be optimal but slightly risky.
In my opinion, goblin charbelcher (because you can try to be lucky and aim it at your opponent and still win) and mana severance (lets you draw a spell every turn) have the most relevant effects without having to try.
Leyline helps a little unlike helm...
grindstone stops tutors but might hit creatures like genesis while painter does things you'd have to build around to abuse (persecute?) so they are not too useful when alone but this combo benefits from both being artifacts and needing a total of 6 mana to go off if you overlook the fact that one side is a 1/3 creature.
I like Erhnam in a Red/Green weenie deck with bomb devour creatures myself (Mycoloth, Skullmuncher, Thorn-Thrash Viashino, Predator Dragon). However, I like the use of Death Match as its a card I would have never looked into.
BTW your 20 mana example with Rith, I've found in most Vanguard games if your not quick your dead. There are just too many avatars that make turn 5 finishers possible that it could be game over for you before you get to Rith's first 5/5.
I made GW elves because it had more unfair plays than the GB version (and no other deck abuses Ranger of Eos anywhere near as much).
The mana disruption really punishes slow starts by contol or the "greedy" multi colour decks, whilst against opposing aggro the elf synergies allow much more unfair things than the individually more poweful elements of the "good stuff" aggro decks. Forestwalking is really extremely powerful in this format with many of the decks running green for various things (fat, recursion, fixing or just because they feel they can.
So far i've only lost to my own terrible mistakes (ask savage beatdown about my pro pacting) which is partially me being generally bad and the timing of these events (im a brit and these all start at really akward time either too early or too late).
Obviously its better for me if people thinks its terrible but, like many singleton decks, just looking at a bunch of card names and trying to evaluate the decks power isn't enough.
Things like synergy and curve are of utmost importance in a deck like this and those don't come across in a simple decklist.
First, great article, thanks for the time and effort you put into the format.
I have an interest in playing 100s tournaments and your column really is my best resource for deck ideas. So I thought I would inquire about the practicality of the deck I've been building. I like the idea of a combo finish in 100s so when grindstone was unbanned I built a deck around painter/stone. With tezzeret and a package of other tutors thrown into a UWb control skeleton I found that the combo was rarely firing for the win. So I added helm/leyline to the mix as the same 4cc transmutes get your combo pieces (and you can go for the other combo once painter is hit with StP). At this point the deck plays like a UWb control deck that wins in one turn.
So, I'm thinking that maybe adding the belcher/severance combo might be interesting. Do you think a deck running Leyline, Helm, Grindstone, Painter, Severance, Belcher is giving up to many control/interactive slots in the decklist to compete in the tournament environment? I guess there is no real knowing without trying (and no trying with grindstone faux banned). I just thought I would ask for an opinion before I spend even more money...
And since we are on the subject is there a best place to practice for 100s tournys? I'm asking because "tournament practice" never seems to have 100s (and yes I've put up games and waited... and waited) and casual tends to be... casual.
Sorry for the wall of text. Dig the articles & dig the format, thanks
Judging from the list of cards from there, I'd say it's a pretty good buy for someone who needs a base but... value-wise, if you consider how much these would probably cost at retail rates, I think you might be better off buying from bots (mtgotraders ones since you're here =p)
Of course, they have yet to make any announcements regarding the price so I would think it would be good to see whether or not the value is worth what you are paying.
(I'll be getting it for the "new" cards....... they generally know how to sell stuff... unless they start banning their "star buys" like they did with demonic tutor for DvD)
do note: there are 3 unplayable cards in there due to bannings in the 100c singleton format
instead of mobilization, you can run goblin assault. I've been also using angelic chorus for life gain and glorious anthem for beef, but they too get axed from standard soon.
Commander theme decks:
Go to the Deck Editor. Hit Load, then the Look In tab. Go to Theme Decks -> Masters Edition III, then load either one.
I realize these will be pretty bad at tournament-level, but as a jumping point/casual play/easy way to snag a bunch of singletons of decent cards...?
He doesn't really have enough Swamps to justify Tendrils in his sideboard. Golgari Brownscale would probably offer a better alternative that fits into a recursion theme while also providing lifegain.
I think the first thing is that the deck has too much targeted discard. 10 spells and 2 Okiba-Gangs is going to lead to a lot of blank cards against aggro once they've emptied their hand. I would relegate Duress/Ostracize to the board (Distress would be a better overall option, but as already noted, the double black requirement is probably prohibitive) and just have Psychotic Episode (probably upping it to 4) and Okiba-Gang MD.
I think you should consider taking the discard/madness focus to the logical conclusion and add significant recursion cards to the deck. If you have 4 Mongrel, 4 Raiders, and then add Tortured Existence as another discard outlet, you should have no problem adding Grave Scrabbler alongside Rootwalla for a bit of resilience. Dark Withering would also seem to be a potentially good option if you don't want to spring for the Edicts, as it's really only bad against MBC, while being very good against aggro decks and Affinity.
So, to summarize, I would add:
+4 Grave Scrabbler
+2 Psychotic Episode
+4 Dark Withering
+3 Tortured Existence
+1 Gathan Raiders
And subtract:
-4 Duress (to the sideboard)
-3 Ostracize
-4 Viscera Dragger (generally worse as a recursion effect than Scrabbler)
-2 Echoing Decay (to the sideboard for goblin storm)
-1 Nameless Inversion (good against Slivers, but less good than Withering in most matchups)
That would give you 7 MD discard effects, 7 MD versatile removal, more discard outlets, and more abuse of those discard outlets. And Tortured Existence will give you a great deal of reach barring graveyard hate in the form of Relic of Progenitus.
Crypt Rats was common in Visions.
Crypt rats is an uncommon card ? in a pauper deck ?
Dont know if your interested in it, or have the ability to do it, but modosharks would camtasia live as they drafted, discussing picks while they came etc. Camtasia does have a free 30 day trial. I am going to be doing one of these come m10 as I am highlighting and testing a particular strategy.
I won the last Pauper PE with the Nightsky Mimic deck and as I agree with most of your sentiments, I would absolutely not get rid of the Oblivion Rings. Oblivion Rings are huge against all the random pro black creatures in the format. I believe in the top 8 I won, one guy was running 12 pro black creatures. They also save your ass from random COP Blacks. My decklist was not running Standard Bearers in the sideboard (Huge Mistake) because they protect you from what I found out is probably one of the most annoying cards to deal with, Obsidian Acoylte. The bearers are also amazing against cloak (obviously) and really really good against slivers(Their only "removal" is usually temporal isolation and also nullifies their pump spells). Some other things to take into consideration is Phyrexian Ragers don't really pull their weight. I think a useful alternative to them would be Shreiking Grotesque. Also Unmake is amazing in the deck. I found it most useful when being on the other side of an alpha attack with a Mimic in play. Its also great against affinity in response to a Rush Of Knowledge. Crypt Rats are a must because they save your ass against alot of random things but I found myself siding them out more than any other card. Against Cloak they're awful, against slivers they become really bad games 2 and 3 because of prismatic strands and they're really not that great against any of the other top decks at the moment. I agree with you that the manabase is kind of sketchy at times. I think cutting a barren moor for a swamp may help in some regards. But those hands that contain Cycling Land / Orzhov Basilica are kind of demoralizing. Anyways Great Article!
If you play the deck in extended, UBR becomes a much better option since Damnation is at a very reasonable price and you get 2 different B borderposts to make it much easier to cast. You can run Clutch of the Undercity to get your Manabarbs and bounce your opponent's stuff (forcing your opponents to replay their stuff with a manabarb out seems pretty nice) and you have a good selection of counterspells and removal available, with a better manabase.
Even in standard I think it might be decent in grixis colors - the biggest loss from white is the martial coup but considering how hard it can be to cast maybe you'd be alright with infests, draw and pinpoint removal.
If you don't have the removal in hand by turn 3 this Orzhov Aggro variant deck can own you hard. I disagree on the Oblivion Ring it's a "way to deal w/ everything else card not just a creatures" especially in the mirror match. I agree w/ the X4 Crypt Rats, and relay dislike the Beckon Apparition but grave yard hate in the current pdc meta is a good to be certain.
I like the article, but some game recaps showing how the deck plays is always appreciated. You should also add a side board which maybe should have Tendrils of Corruption, and maybe Essence Warden to battle fast burn range decks for starters. I still think Distress is better then Duress, or Ostracize but requires a larger commitment to playing black as well.
I loved the intro to this. Made me really laugh out loud. On the other hand I have to say I wish you'd included some matches and color commentary on how people reacted to your "cheating" ways.
Commander theme decks:
I would get them because they have "new cards". I've not seen the decklists (although I have a small list of what the "new cards" are) so I'm afraid I can't say accurately how good a "base for a deck" they are at the moment.
paul: I don't think 50c rares would be very effective too... but the good uncommons tend to be able give you more value for your buck so I'd invest in those to start.
kha: congrats with your deck.. =)
I hate the timings for the tournaments too... =(
tournament practice: it has been said that tournament practice room should be used for tournament practice but at this point in time, people don't tend to go there. I think a relatively effective way would be to advertise your game with "tournament decks" in the comments and set the game to a match. I'm not very sure whether or not most people use the table view (there isn't another view is there?) like I do and click on the name to arrange the format in alphabetical order (this puts 100c singleton at the top of the list) to find a game. If so, the comments on the left should stick out rather prominently. Anyway, the past few times I've played in the tournament practice room looking for a competitive deck for mainstream formats (not 100c singleton), I've met (sorry to be rude) crappy decks that do not belong at all in that room.
Hey guys, unfortunately I didn't realize that tenth edition rotated out BEFORE M10 went on sale, so there are some card choices that don't fly in the new Standard (as of Wednesday).
Fortunately there's nothing too huge. Windborn Muse is probably the biggest one, Story Circle and Mobilization are invalid toolbox enchantments now, Mind Stone is gone, and Incinerate can be replaced with Lightning Bolt. Wrath of God is the toughest replacement.
Sorry for the confusion!
I was playing my buddy last night who had built this R/B vamp-ramp deck. Here was his play:
T1: Duress, taking Bolt
T2: Child of Night
T3: Veinfire Borderpost
T4: Liliana Vess, I discards
T5: Vamp Nocturnus, flips Bituminous Blast
T6: Draw Blast, flip Blightning, cast both off blast, flip swamp
Tutor Vamp #2 with Vess.
I got him to 2 with my Jund cascade deck but his t6 was backbreaking
For someone trying to enter 100CS, how do the new Commander theme decks look? Obviously, I'd take out the Commander and have to work on making the mana base a litle more $$$, but the rest of the deck is packed with very little chaff.
Oh gosh, I was pretty sure it was! *blushes*
Anyway, I'm going to try and do my best with Worlds coverage. Thanks!
APDC is not actually sponsored by MTGO Traders, although I love buying cards there.
This was a great read, thanks for writing it. Hope you'll cover Worlds in a future article!
good attempt at making an introductory article on budget decks. a few more builds with a little more budget cap would as mentioned above have been great. looking forward to the jace chandra builds as i feel personaly those are the best boxed sets online.
I built a few casual singleton decks including a 100s deck and a commander 100s deck. I have yet to really play with them though. My collection while not poor isn't great either. I am afraid my 50cent rares wont hold water against the $3-40 rares.
Thnx Jamuraa~ =)
@parabola01: the most budget of singleton 100 decks would probably be RDW because of its many mountains or maybe GW elves with many elves.. counterspells are relatively cheaper than most good spells too.
Usually, the greatest value in a deck is found when you use cards that do very specific functions like having dual lands or maybe "rare" spells like vindicate/force of will/pernicious deed (and maybe the two swords?).. If you look at most decks, the general bulk of good cards are relatively affordable but that being said, that effect is cumulative so a deck would end up quite expensive because of the sheer count of decent cards most people play but most cards have high replayability value unless they belong to a highly specific archetype (which is not very common)...
So far, the only must play card I've had in a color is green=> tarmogoyf and probably sensei's divining top for every deck that cannot find a reason to exclude it.
Staples for me would be most lands and powerful spells like tarmogoyf, fact or fiction, shriekmaw, flametongue kavu, oblivion ring? (cards that are strong and tend to have more generic or colorless mana in their casting cost because they fit even with a minor splash)
@relapsed: From what I found, the painter + grindstone combo is one that goes off when you think it's safe to do so. (or maybe I'm just a chicken) which means you'd usually play into the mid/long game and wear out your opponent's hand or try to exploit a possible blank hand of your opponent at which point there isn't really a difference as to which combo kill you'd want to use to initiate a kill with. Because of that, using a combo that is less vulnerable might actually become a better choice (such as the belcher + mana severance combo).
From personal experience, I've once tried a deck with a bunch of 2 card kills but it did not work out too well as some of the parts just came with others and they did not really work well together on their own.
I would think that 2 2-card combos are more than enough to win the game with. 1 would be optimal but slightly risky.
In my opinion, goblin charbelcher (because you can try to be lucky and aim it at your opponent and still win) and mana severance (lets you draw a spell every turn) have the most relevant effects without having to try.
Leyline helps a little unlike helm...
grindstone stops tutors but might hit creatures like genesis while painter does things you'd have to build around to abuse (persecute?) so they are not too useful when alone but this combo benefits from both being artifacts and needing a total of 6 mana to go off if you overlook the fact that one side is a 1/3 creature.
I like Erhnam in a Red/Green weenie deck with bomb devour creatures myself (Mycoloth, Skullmuncher, Thorn-Thrash Viashino, Predator Dragon). However, I like the use of Death Match as its a card I would have never looked into.
BTW your 20 mana example with Rith, I've found in most Vanguard games if your not quick your dead. There are just too many avatars that make turn 5 finishers possible that it could be game over for you before you get to Rith's first 5/5.
RagMan
I made GW elves because it had more unfair plays than the GB version (and no other deck abuses Ranger of Eos anywhere near as much).
The mana disruption really punishes slow starts by contol or the "greedy" multi colour decks, whilst against opposing aggro the elf synergies allow much more unfair things than the individually more poweful elements of the "good stuff" aggro decks. Forestwalking is really extremely powerful in this format with many of the decks running green for various things (fat, recursion, fixing or just because they feel they can.
So far i've only lost to my own terrible mistakes (ask savage beatdown about my pro pacting) which is partially me being generally bad and the timing of these events (im a brit and these all start at really akward time either too early or too late).
Obviously its better for me if people thinks its terrible but, like many singleton decks, just looking at a bunch of card names and trying to evaluate the decks power isn't enough.
Things like synergy and curve are of utmost importance in a deck like this and those don't come across in a simple decklist.
Sigh.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=19131848&postcount=137
Entering Plan B mode again. Any requests?
First, great article, thanks for the time and effort you put into the format.
I have an interest in playing 100s tournaments and your column really is my best resource for deck ideas. So I thought I would inquire about the practicality of the deck I've been building. I like the idea of a combo finish in 100s so when grindstone was unbanned I built a deck around painter/stone. With tezzeret and a package of other tutors thrown into a UWb control skeleton I found that the combo was rarely firing for the win. So I added helm/leyline to the mix as the same 4cc transmutes get your combo pieces (and you can go for the other combo once painter is hit with StP). At this point the deck plays like a UWb control deck that wins in one turn.
So, I'm thinking that maybe adding the belcher/severance combo might be interesting. Do you think a deck running Leyline, Helm, Grindstone, Painter, Severance, Belcher is giving up to many control/interactive slots in the decklist to compete in the tournament environment? I guess there is no real knowing without trying (and no trying with grindstone faux banned). I just thought I would ask for an opinion before I spend even more money...
And since we are on the subject is there a best place to practice for 100s tournys? I'm asking because "tournament practice" never seems to have 100s (and yes I've put up games and waited... and waited) and casual tends to be... casual.
Sorry for the wall of text. Dig the articles & dig the format, thanks