I think Spike is just simply too attached to "competitive" decks. There's no reason that this deck couldn't be playable in the Casual Room, and with some tweaking, who knows, it may even find it's way into the competitive meta. Seriously Spike, take a freakin chill pill buddy.
Questioning things is good. In fact, anyone who just accepts what they are told without question is an idiot. But, it can be just as idiotic to write something off with "this is why it won't work" than "this is how we can make it work". And I'm not calling you an idiot by the way. You seem pretty sharp to me.
That being said, I think this deck should run 5 colors. It's already running 4, why not five? And as for the creature count, I totally disagree with. This deck needs more D or pressure to throw your opponent for a loop.
Let me give it a spin and I'll hit you up next time I see you in the rooms. We'll really see if this deck is worth a crap or if it should stay in the casual room.
No love for the Nephilim? With KoNA on board, the loss of their Mights and Blessings seems insignificant. If it wasn't for my Nephilim Tribal deck, I probably would have missed out on buying Pillars before the rush.
I hold no grudge against Motu. As I said, this article represents a drastic improvement over his last effort and it is great to see him develop as a writer. Rather than just accepting what he wrote, however, I asked questions about this every deck and the current metagame, and then imparted my own knowledge from experience with Cloudpost decks. I even say that he has gone to length to mitigate the slow nature of his deck and was asking how he reconciles this with the format as a whole.
I am writing this deck off because I've tried it in the past, many times, and have not succeeded. If Aaron can succeed where I have failed, then good for him.
Your reply for Storm/Affinity is lacking, however. This deck does not run White, and so Strands loses value since you can't flash it back. If your entire plan against Affinity is "Ancient Grudge," then you have not prepared for Affinity.
Am I being harsh? Yes, and I'm far worse to the people I test with. The best way to get better at this game, no matter the level, is to question everything that comes your way and try to find every mistake. Aaron does this to some degree in his narration. However, if these forums are just full of mindless praise, the benefits would pale in comparison to the discussion fostered by discord. If I see something I don't agree with, I am going to question it and either be proved wrong or invite further discourse so that we all benefit.
LOL. This was 100% posted by Motu himself or one of his friends ... "best pauper articles on this site" is a dead giveaway. That is BEYOND insulting to Alex.
Very intelligent Alex, I am also impressed by your thoughts. However, I think this deck looks (I haven't played it yet) like it can handle itself fine in the early game. Against agro, Moment's Peace is practically a Time Walk that flashes. Plus you have the Tribe-Elders as a small speedbump whilst the accelerate you a turn as well. By the time you've dumped and flashed your Moment's Peace and Elders, you can sweep the deck with rolling thunder.
This deck definately has potential even if it does need to be tweaked.
And as for Storm/Affinity... there are many tier one decks that can't even come close to handling that kind of speed pre-board. Just have some Prismatic Strands and artifact hate in you side and your set.
Did I miss something because I'm still not understanding why you are writing this deck off short of you still having some type of grudge towards Motu.
Thanks for the thoughts though Alex, always my pleasure.
The Fundamental Turn is not the turn by which a game has been won, but rather the turn of enacting your plan. For example, Burn and Combo- the de facto fastest decks- can win, consistently, on turn four. MBC and MUC both set four as their Fundamental Turn as well: MBC can cast Tendrils for value on turn four and MUC can cast Spire Golem with Counterspell defense on turn four.
This deck spends turn four fetching lands and casting Foresee. Unlike every other deck in the format which has a plan towards winning on turn four, this deck sculpting its own FT, which comes much later.
Look at it through the Floresian model of Stages: This deck has a great Stage Three (dominating late game), but takes a long time to set that up in Stage 2 (sculpting the win). Compare this to the best analogue MBC. Yes, this deck is basically just MBC with more colors as it strives to win in a very similar way (consistent mana, negating attacks, win with a big spell) and instead does not have the same disruptive elements and lacks to consistent mana engine (Swamps vs. Cloudposts). This deck spends a long time in Stage Two, leaving it vulnerable, as the author writes, to burn. However, this deck is also susceptible to any form of interactive disruption, such as discard or counter magic. Heck, the deck might have a hard time with Circle: Red.
Sorry, tangent.
The fact is that the FT of Pauper is turn four. This does not mean that decks have to win at this point, but it is the turn by which all decks need to have asserted some level of dominance in the game (and yes, dominance is a bad word, but it's the best I can think of at this time).
Alex, I think you're a little too attached to agro/combo decks. MBC, MUC, and UB Control don't "go off" even close to turn four. They merely survive until mid-late game like all control decks. I don't think you are giving control enough respect in the format. Maybe you're right, and this deck could use some adjustments, but stamping a deck unplayable that doesn't win by turn 4 or 5 is nuts.
A vast improvement. A few issues though:
Pyroblast seems like a key card in the MUC matchup, why are you only running 2?
Mana ramp decks tend to have issues with Affinity- is your plain Naturalize, because that seems very loose?
Considering the top 8 of Skies, MBC, UB Control, 2x Affinity, Naya Cloak, WW, and the Burn Deck, how does this deck adapt to the meta in the wake of the recent event?
The biggest problem with Cloudpost decks in the past is that they sacrifice a decent amount of tempo early for benefits later. While you have mitigated that somewhat, I would still be hesitant to run this in a PE since you would be far more likely to hit a deck that can apply pressure and win within the first five turns of the game, and you seem to stabilize at turn five or so. The fundamental turn of Pauper is 4, and I am not sure that Post decks can function in a format that fast with positive results over the long haul.
Soul Manipulation is better than Tier IV. It's a two for one when played correctly. You landcycle the Zombies early and bring him back with it while zapping a creature spell. What's not to love?
Giving up the storm matchup seems like a big compromise, especially with mana burn going away, i think storm will be on the rise. It seems too many pauper players just don't take storm seriously enough, but then again, that happens in most other formats too. The amount of hate needed to even have a chance against combo is hard to justify. FYI the empty the warrens version can kill you on the same turn with goblin war strike too, they don't need to attack to win.
Anyway, props for this article. Refreshing ideas and interesting analysis backed up by testing results, nice work!
Personally I am a fan of mask of riddles. Against any deck without black or artifact creatures it can turn all of your creatures into threats, that also give you cards! What is not to love. Sure it is not a bomb and I would take any removal over it but it is stronger than you rate it IMO.
I use video capture to record my games live (although now that replays are back you can just grab the replays!) then use a video editing program to cut out inactive parts, speed up sections, and slow down parts where I want to put in more commentary. Once the video is edited it's best to compress it for uploading to youtube.
Is this the same Motu? Nice job man! I can't believe how far you've came! This is such an improvement. Nice deck too. I'd like to try it someday. I have a question for you though... or really, for anyone who can answer. How do you record your games for youtube? Thanks, and keep up the great work!
Wow!... This is just awesome... I'm so glad someone is giving a fresh outlook to Pauper. It seems so dry lately. I absolutely love this deck. It may not have a chance against MUC or fish, but against affinity, burn, and aggro, it is absolutely dominant. I just love this deck. Great article!
while playing someone right click on the match chat. There will be a listing of about 8 different things including a few emoticons and some stock phrases that WotC deems basic courtesy.
I think Spike is just simply too attached to "competitive" decks. There's no reason that this deck couldn't be playable in the Casual Room, and with some tweaking, who knows, it may even find it's way into the competitive meta. Seriously Spike, take a freakin chill pill buddy.
Questioning things is good. In fact, anyone who just accepts what they are told without question is an idiot. But, it can be just as idiotic to write something off with "this is why it won't work" than "this is how we can make it work". And I'm not calling you an idiot by the way. You seem pretty sharp to me.
That being said, I think this deck should run 5 colors. It's already running 4, why not five? And as for the creature count, I totally disagree with. This deck needs more D or pressure to throw your opponent for a loop.
Let me give it a spin and I'll hit you up next time I see you in the rooms. We'll really see if this deck is worth a crap or if it should stay in the casual room.
No love for the Nephilim? With KoNA on board, the loss of their Mights and Blessings seems insignificant. If it wasn't for my Nephilim Tribal deck, I probably would have missed out on buying Pillars before the rush.
I hold no grudge against Motu. As I said, this article represents a drastic improvement over his last effort and it is great to see him develop as a writer. Rather than just accepting what he wrote, however, I asked questions about this every deck and the current metagame, and then imparted my own knowledge from experience with Cloudpost decks. I even say that he has gone to length to mitigate the slow nature of his deck and was asking how he reconciles this with the format as a whole.
I am writing this deck off because I've tried it in the past, many times, and have not succeeded. If Aaron can succeed where I have failed, then good for him.
Your reply for Storm/Affinity is lacking, however. This deck does not run White, and so Strands loses value since you can't flash it back. If your entire plan against Affinity is "Ancient Grudge," then you have not prepared for Affinity.
Am I being harsh? Yes, and I'm far worse to the people I test with. The best way to get better at this game, no matter the level, is to question everything that comes your way and try to find every mistake. Aaron does this to some degree in his narration. However, if these forums are just full of mindless praise, the benefits would pale in comparison to the discussion fostered by discord. If I see something I don't agree with, I am going to question it and either be proved wrong or invite further discourse so that we all benefit.
-Alex
LOL. This was 100% posted by Motu himself or one of his friends ... "best pauper articles on this site" is a dead giveaway. That is BEYOND insulting to Alex.
Very intelligent Alex, I am also impressed by your thoughts. However, I think this deck looks (I haven't played it yet) like it can handle itself fine in the early game. Against agro, Moment's Peace is practically a Time Walk that flashes. Plus you have the Tribe-Elders as a small speedbump whilst the accelerate you a turn as well. By the time you've dumped and flashed your Moment's Peace and Elders, you can sweep the deck with rolling thunder.
This deck definately has potential even if it does need to be tweaked.
And as for Storm/Affinity... there are many tier one decks that can't even come close to handling that kind of speed pre-board. Just have some Prismatic Strands and artifact hate in you side and your set.
Did I miss something because I'm still not understanding why you are writing this deck off short of you still having some type of grudge towards Motu.
Thanks for the thoughts though Alex, always my pleasure.
-Ricky
The Fundamental Turn is not the turn by which a game has been won, but rather the turn of enacting your plan. For example, Burn and Combo- the de facto fastest decks- can win, consistently, on turn four. MBC and MUC both set four as their Fundamental Turn as well: MBC can cast Tendrils for value on turn four and MUC can cast Spire Golem with Counterspell defense on turn four.
This deck spends turn four fetching lands and casting Foresee. Unlike every other deck in the format which has a plan towards winning on turn four, this deck sculpting its own FT, which comes much later.
Look at it through the Floresian model of Stages: This deck has a great Stage Three (dominating late game), but takes a long time to set that up in Stage 2 (sculpting the win). Compare this to the best analogue MBC. Yes, this deck is basically just MBC with more colors as it strives to win in a very similar way (consistent mana, negating attacks, win with a big spell) and instead does not have the same disruptive elements and lacks to consistent mana engine (Swamps vs. Cloudposts). This deck spends a long time in Stage Two, leaving it vulnerable, as the author writes, to burn. However, this deck is also susceptible to any form of interactive disruption, such as discard or counter magic. Heck, the deck might have a hard time with Circle: Red.
Sorry, tangent.
The fact is that the FT of Pauper is turn four. This does not mean that decks have to win at this point, but it is the turn by which all decks need to have asserted some level of dominance in the game (and yes, dominance is a bad word, but it's the best I can think of at this time).
-Alex
Alex, I think you're a little too attached to agro/combo decks. MBC, MUC, and UB Control don't "go off" even close to turn four. They merely survive until mid-late game like all control decks. I don't think you are giving control enough respect in the format. Maybe you're right, and this deck could use some adjustments, but stamping a deck unplayable that doesn't win by turn 4 or 5 is nuts.
Thank you. Would you personally suggest any programs for the video editing?
Really nice article and I'm looking forward to read/watch more from you :)
A vast improvement. A few issues though:
Pyroblast seems like a key card in the MUC matchup, why are you only running 2?
Mana ramp decks tend to have issues with Affinity- is your plain Naturalize, because that seems very loose?
Considering the top 8 of Skies, MBC, UB Control, 2x Affinity, Naya Cloak, WW, and the Burn Deck, how does this deck adapt to the meta in the wake of the recent event?
The biggest problem with Cloudpost decks in the past is that they sacrifice a decent amount of tempo early for benefits later. While you have mitigated that somewhat, I would still be hesitant to run this in a PE since you would be far more likely to hit a deck that can apply pressure and win within the first five turns of the game, and you seem to stabilize at turn five or so. The fundamental turn of Pauper is 4, and I am not sure that Post decks can function in a format that fast with positive results over the long haul.
-Alex
You seem to be the only one bringing some fresh looks to pauper ... best pauper articles on this site ... nice decks and great job.
Soul Manipulation is better than Tier IV. It's a two for one when played correctly. You landcycle the Zombies early and bring him back with it while zapping a creature spell. What's not to love?
Yeah, but can you make a Kaleidoscope Tribal Pauper 100-Card Singleton deck?
I didn't *think* so.
Fun article.
Giving up the storm matchup seems like a big compromise, especially with mana burn going away, i think storm will be on the rise. It seems too many pauper players just don't take storm seriously enough, but then again, that happens in most other formats too. The amount of hate needed to even have a chance against combo is hard to justify. FYI the empty the warrens version can kill you on the same turn with goblin war strike too, they don't need to attack to win.
Anyway, props for this article. Refreshing ideas and interesting analysis backed up by testing results, nice work!
Personally I am a fan of mask of riddles. Against any deck without black or artifact creatures it can turn all of your creatures into threats, that also give you cards! What is not to love. Sure it is not a bomb and I would take any removal over it but it is stronger than you rate it IMO.
I use video capture to record my games live (although now that replays are back you can just grab the replays!) then use a video editing program to cut out inactive parts, speed up sections, and slow down parts where I want to put in more commentary. Once the video is edited it's best to compress it for uploading to youtube.
I narrate after I've edited the video, otherwise every game posted would be limited to 10 minutes or less.
Is this the same Motu? Nice job man! I can't believe how far you've came! This is such an improvement. Nice deck too. I'd like to try it someday. I have a question for you though... or really, for anyone who can answer. How do you record your games for youtube? Thanks, and keep up the great work!
Wow!... This is just awesome... I'm so glad someone is giving a fresh outlook to Pauper. It seems so dry lately. I absolutely love this deck. It may not have a chance against MUC or fish, but against affinity, burn, and aggro, it is absolutely dominant. I just love this deck. Great article!
It's an interesting idea. Not sure what I'd take out for it, though.
Re: The 3rd deck. You are already running all non basics, Did you consider stretching the mana base a bit to run 2 Necromancer's Covenants?
while playing someone right click on the match chat. There will be a listing of about 8 different things including a few emoticons and some stock phrases that WotC deems basic courtesy.
This article is all win! Great job Moru!
The videos are a good addition - quick question - do you record the games then add commentary on top afterwards?
If i was forced to either play a 19th basic land or skyshroud ranger, i'd choose to play the land. That card sucks so bad.