Zur is one my favorite deck ... i tried to play many versions of this deck, and my conclusion is : if you resolved a Zur and if you managed to attack with it, it is almost always GG... The main problem is to manage to keep it alive the turn you put it into play. Pernicious Deed is a leathal weapon in this deck, a fantastic uncounterable removal stuff when it comes into play with Zur.
I tried also a version running RED : blood moon & seismic assault are really good choices even if the UBW version seems better.
Btw : Riptide laboratory & Runed Halo are good adds for this deck. Some others cards like Standstill, Underworld dream, Mystic Remora, Prismatic Rune, Story Circle & Chain of mephistopheles are also fun to play.
Wait a sec. Ageless Entity is a 4/4 base, not 5/5, and the Aria won't give it +10/+10 until after it resolves. That said, if you have two Arias, which is definitely leaning towards a cascade-4 with 100% certainty plan, then it will work with just 1 point of help:
Aria #1: 8/8 becomes 9/9. But if you had just a silly Thrill of the Hunt then he'd double up to 20/20.
Aria #2: win.
You'll probably draw one and cascade into the other if you play four. And if you play Captured Sunlight as a 'tutor' it's kind of like having 8. Loxodon Warhammer or Behemoth Sledge can buy turns and trigger the combo.
I too love the card that you chose to build around. First, thank you for being honest about the deck's power level. You didn't end the article with a throwaway line like "this deck has potential..." or something. Not even after going 7-1. It looks like you're both Naya Ramp and combo in different games, which is very cool. But your combo pieces are mostly creatures, so you die to removal. A deck isn't automatically bad if it folds to one Oblivion Ring though. You're just kind of all-in. And in a couple games your redundant combos saved you. That seven-point Banefire on turn 3 to save yourself in game 5 was pretty awesome too.
I'm really surprised that the Aria isn't as win more as I thought it was. You'd imagine that if you had a 20/20 creature that you're just a fraction of a turn away from winning. But so much can stop a 20/20 creature. Like Fog. And chump blockers. Maybe even Condemn or an attack phase Snakeform or something. In that case the Aria turns from win more to win anyways. Which is fantastic except for the games when you don't get there and the card ends up blank.
Ageless Entity doesn't necessarily need life gain to form a two card win with the Aria. If all it has to do is reach 9/9 then a Giant Growth and a +1/+1 counter will do it. Or Berserk it (with whichever format legal berserks are available) after the trigger is on the stack. It should be easy. How about Captured Sunlight? You don't even need to cut all the 1 and 2 drops out of your deck. Although I'm already in love with the idea of "At the end of your turn, gain 4. I'm cascading. Oh look, Aria! My turn? Upkeep, I win."
In v3 you have the Mosswort Bridge, but no Troll? I thought you'd be able to get 10 power of random guys easily. Maybe even with cheap equipment? Then you just 'G' and out pops a Troll or Aria. The Troll is no good?
Awesome article. I look forward to your articles every time they come out. Any chance you are planning on doing one about block before the giant tourny this weekend?
I have to say, I didn't give this card enough credit at first. But it allows me to make huge comebacks when in tight positions.
I was playing a slivers player would had a cloak on one of his spinnerets. So, with enforcer on the stack, I saced a whole bunch of artifacts to the shaman to wrath his board. Well, I stupidly forgot about the thrill of the hunt in his gravyard so he's left with a 4/5 life-linked creature and I just have a bland 4/4. Rush of knowledge allowed me to over load the board 2 turns later and force a concession. I was at 3 life, and he was at 30.
Too funny I think I was recently just talking to Tog about how I wanted to build a Zur Classic Deck. The only thing holding me back is owning another 2 copies of Force of Will sigh... lol. I did discuss with him that I think it is too slow for classic... but if Necrospike is gone... then perhaps he can compete.
My 100 Card Zur deck + sideboard was doing rather well in the Classic format.
If you are going to be splashing in green for Deed then Doran would be a great addition. I prefer Armadillo Cloak since it is not color specific.
How were the Dark Confidants working for you?
Great build thus far! Gives me some inspiration to build a Classic Zur deck too.
what about this?
Personally i'm using solitary confinement.
Mixed with necro you become untargetable and you no longer fear any attack or dammage
so you should use 1 necro, 1 confinement, 3 steels and 1 or 2 o. rings
Yep you're definitely right that in a lot of the situations where Mayael's Aria won me the game, Primal Rage would have also - but to me the alternate win condition is a whole lot more fun in a casual deck like this. If you're not into Johnny-style alternate win conditions, then this is probably not the deck for you - sorry, maybe the next one I come up with will be more to your liking.
Loved the decks and the evolutions. Thought you did a great job explaining that these were for the casual room and obviously aren't going to win any serious tournaments.
You seemed well aware of the weakenesses this deck had against more spike-ish decks and I thought you did a great job of writing to your audience, namely players like me. I also enjoyed and greatly appreciated the budget considerations you took at the end of the article. Great job man!
I realize you mentionned that Aria is a win-more card, but you also said it got you the win in a couple games. In most cases, however, Primal Rage is just as good - and you don't see too many decks built around Primal Rage.
The biggest benefit you get from the Aria is that it's a 3-mana 3-color card in your bloom tender deck.
Another thing I've noticed is that in all your games, only a single player had any removal, and that's the game you lost.
Ageless Entity's triggered ability goes on the stack for the lifegain after the Aria has finished resolving. So a 9/9 Ageless Entity will become a 20/20 too late for you to win this turn. I think DeCordova made the same mistake in his column on the card.
Aria's alternate win is just as bad as Epic Struggle - if you can alternate win with your enchantment, you can most likely win through combat damage anyway. In fact, why haven't you won already?
I generally chose cards based on whichever whim grabs me that week. Sometimes we get a strange card that suddenly jumped, or a card that's high in demand in a new standard deck, or a new card that suddenly took off thanks to a new interaction, or sometimes on what people have asked me to investigate (I've done a few pauper charts through request. :) )
This is normal for the price charts during a release week unfortunately.
It breaks down like this: I submit the article on Thursday night so it can be posted Friday morning, I get the prices Wednesday mid-day to crunch them for my Thursday evening writing. It's about as slim as I can make the timeline while still providing details about the information I get. :(
Sadly it's the best we can do with how fast the market moves during release weeks. Usually it's not such a huge swing outside of the release weeks.
I'm sorry for the delay on the article, I hope its still useful for all of those who may read it.I'm also sorry about the outdated prices but it only shows how I was right (lol). Seismic Assault is now at a healthy 5 tix and Primal Command at 2,75. I hope you enjoyed it anyway.
The first graph is nearly perfect, just add the totals for all three formats combined to the right of each row please.
The second graph has bars too thin and less information.
The third graphs looks kinda pretty, but with the scales so compressed I dont think much information can be gained here.
MBC runs expanses to thin their deck of lands. MBC runs on high card quality and threat density rather than extreme card advantage like other control decks (MUC). When you thin your deck of lands you reduce the number of dead draws in the long run and thus increase your threat density and overall draw strength. The pilot calculated the risk/reward of the expanse inclusion and made the decision that the increase in draw strength outweighs the possibility of not being able to curve out perfectly every time.
A well-written deck walkthrough with an interesting concept and good appreciation for cost. If I could make one suggestion, it would be to use Magus of the Abyss over Big Game Hunter, as even just with a single haze it becomes a one-sided Barter in Blood, it doesn't touch your Tidehollow Strixes and you can abuse Blood Clock with it to keep its effect and avoid life loss. As a plus, a playset can be acquired for less than a ticket, and they have great synergy with Gibbering Descent's Hellbent.
...and fortunately we are not entirely without options whilst staying true to the 60-land concept. A Snow engine using Mouth of Ronom and the snow duals would trade early game speed for better hitting power. Another option is going for a full set of Rix Maadi and adding in Keldon Megaliths, but unfortunately there isn't a madness land, and the lands which work brilliantly well in the graveyard rotated out of Extended and thus Kaleidoscope. There are directions his deck can be taken with the addition of nonland cards: A few weeks back I demonstrated a 40-odd land Retrace deck along a similar principle.
Howeer, the strength to this style of deck is blanking so many cards your opponent has: A single multicolored spell switches his Errors and other counters back on, and a single multicolored permanent re-enables his Pures. Worse, because he has no other targets, he would most likely have an answer in hand instead of cursing futilely at its unexpected impotence. One compromise answer might be Assault/Battery, unique as it is in the format.
To address the salient point on one land a turn by the anonymous poster above, it's worth remembering that Zoetic Cavern helps out in that regard, often managing a 2-for-1 in trading with an opposing creature or drawing a wasted removal spell as it accelerates you as well.
The land deck has won: I use a general rule of thumb that if I can't get at least a handful of wins in the Casual room as a bare minimum, a deck isn't fit to see print.
Dark Depths and Trace is amusing, a cheaper form of Helix Pinnacle aside from forced sacrifice or Vesuva legend rule shenanigans, and there are a lot of other Kaleidoscope-legal tricks with the Depths. You can animate it with Genju of the Realm or Woodwraith Corrupter/Unstable Frontier and then hit it with Fate Transfer for an instant 20/20, which is great fun in response to removal aimed at the animated land. I love the idea of using it with Mayael's Aria for EOTMLYL.
Zur is one my favorite deck ... i tried to play many versions of this deck, and my conclusion is : if you resolved a Zur and if you managed to attack with it, it is almost always GG... The main problem is to manage to keep it alive the turn you put it into play. Pernicious Deed is a leathal weapon in this deck, a fantastic uncounterable removal stuff when it comes into play with Zur.
I tried also a version running RED : blood moon & seismic assault are really good choices even if the UBW version seems better.
Btw : Riptide laboratory & Runed Halo are good adds for this deck. Some others cards like Standstill, Underworld dream, Mystic Remora, Prismatic Rune, Story Circle & Chain of mephistopheles are also fun to play.
Wait a sec. Ageless Entity is a 4/4 base, not 5/5, and the Aria won't give it +10/+10 until after it resolves. That said, if you have two Arias, which is definitely leaning towards a cascade-4 with 100% certainty plan, then it will work with just 1 point of help:
Aria #1: 8/8 becomes 9/9. But if you had just a silly Thrill of the Hunt then he'd double up to 20/20.
Aria #2: win.
You'll probably draw one and cascade into the other if you play four. And if you play Captured Sunlight as a 'tutor' it's kind of like having 8. Loxodon Warhammer or Behemoth Sledge can buy turns and trigger the combo.
I too love the card that you chose to build around. First, thank you for being honest about the deck's power level. You didn't end the article with a throwaway line like "this deck has potential..." or something. Not even after going 7-1. It looks like you're both Naya Ramp and combo in different games, which is very cool. But your combo pieces are mostly creatures, so you die to removal. A deck isn't automatically bad if it folds to one Oblivion Ring though. You're just kind of all-in. And in a couple games your redundant combos saved you. That seven-point Banefire on turn 3 to save yourself in game 5 was pretty awesome too.
I'm really surprised that the Aria isn't as win more as I thought it was. You'd imagine that if you had a 20/20 creature that you're just a fraction of a turn away from winning. But so much can stop a 20/20 creature. Like Fog. And chump blockers. Maybe even Condemn or an attack phase Snakeform or something. In that case the Aria turns from win more to win anyways. Which is fantastic except for the games when you don't get there and the card ends up blank.
Ageless Entity doesn't necessarily need life gain to form a two card win with the Aria. If all it has to do is reach 9/9 then a Giant Growth and a +1/+1 counter will do it. Or Berserk it (with whichever format legal berserks are available) after the trigger is on the stack. It should be easy. How about Captured Sunlight? You don't even need to cut all the 1 and 2 drops out of your deck. Although I'm already in love with the idea of "At the end of your turn, gain 4. I'm cascading. Oh look, Aria! My turn? Upkeep, I win."
In v3 you have the Mosswort Bridge, but no Troll? I thought you'd be able to get 10 power of random guys easily. Maybe even with cheap equipment? Then you just 'G' and out pops a Troll or Aria. The Troll is no good?
Awesome article. I look forward to your articles every time they come out. Any chance you are planning on doing one about block before the giant tourny this weekend?
I have to say, I didn't give this card enough credit at first. But it allows me to make huge comebacks when in tight positions.
I was playing a slivers player would had a cloak on one of his spinnerets. So, with enforcer on the stack, I saced a whole bunch of artifacts to the shaman to wrath his board. Well, I stupidly forgot about the thrill of the hunt in his gravyard so he's left with a 4/5 life-linked creature and I just have a bland 4/4. Rush of knowledge allowed me to over load the board 2 turns later and force a concession. I was at 3 life, and he was at 30.
Too funny I think I was recently just talking to Tog about how I wanted to build a Zur Classic Deck. The only thing holding me back is owning another 2 copies of Force of Will sigh... lol. I did discuss with him that I think it is too slow for classic... but if Necrospike is gone... then perhaps he can compete.
My 100 Card Zur deck + sideboard was doing rather well in the Classic format.
If you are going to be splashing in green for Deed then Doran would be a great addition. I prefer Armadillo Cloak since it is not color specific.
How were the Dark Confidants working for you?
Great build thus far! Gives me some inspiration to build a Classic Zur deck too.
philip
what about this?
Personally i'm using solitary confinement.
Mixed with necro you become untargetable and you no longer fear any attack or dammage
so you should use 1 necro, 1 confinement, 3 steels and 1 or 2 o. rings
Thanks for the feedback man, I appreciate it.
Yep you're definitely right that in a lot of the situations where Mayael's Aria won me the game, Primal Rage would have also - but to me the alternate win condition is a whole lot more fun in a casual deck like this. If you're not into Johnny-style alternate win conditions, then this is probably not the deck for you - sorry, maybe the next one I come up with will be more to your liking.
I enjoyed the article, but it seriously needs an editor, there were quite a few mistakes throughout it:
concussion->concoction (I'm just guessing from the context, but it seems likely concoction was the word you were looking for)
Barely impossible->Barely possible (Yeh, barely impossible would make it very possible to win with plumeveils.)
undeafeatd->undefeated
Trow->Throw
Comb->Combo (presumably)
I'd suggest asking someone to look through it before submitting, or just doing a quick scan through yourself.
Sorry if this came over as being over scrutinous, but it's a good article and it sucks that these careless errors detract from the article.
Loved the decks and the evolutions. Thought you did a great job explaining that these were for the casual room and obviously aren't going to win any serious tournaments.
You seemed well aware of the weakenesses this deck had against more spike-ish decks and I thought you did a great job of writing to your audience, namely players like me. I also enjoyed and greatly appreciated the budget considerations you took at the end of the article. Great job man!
I realize you mentionned that Aria is a win-more card, but you also said it got you the win in a couple games. In most cases, however, Primal Rage is just as good - and you don't see too many decks built around Primal Rage.
The biggest benefit you get from the Aria is that it's a 3-mana 3-color card in your bloom tender deck.
Another thing I've noticed is that in all your games, only a single player had any removal, and that's the game you lost.
Hmmm - for some reason, I don't seem to own any. Strange.
Whatever - yes, that sounds good. I like the cantrip effect.
Ageless Entity's triggered ability goes on the stack for the lifegain after the Aria has finished resolving. So a 9/9 Ageless Entity will become a 20/20 too late for you to win this turn. I think DeCordova made the same mistake in his column on the card.
Aria's alternate win is just as bad as Epic Struggle - if you can alternate win with your enchantment, you can most likely win through combat damage anyway. In fact, why haven't you won already?
I generally chose cards based on whichever whim grabs me that week. Sometimes we get a strange card that suddenly jumped, or a card that's high in demand in a new standard deck, or a new card that suddenly took off thanks to a new interaction, or sometimes on what people have asked me to investigate (I've done a few pauper charts through request. :) )
I will make this change for the next week. :)
This is normal for the price charts during a release week unfortunately.
It breaks down like this: I submit the article on Thursday night so it can be posted Friday morning, I get the prices Wednesday mid-day to crunch them for my Thursday evening writing. It's about as slim as I can make the timeline while still providing details about the information I get. :(
Sadly it's the best we can do with how fast the market moves during release weeks. Usually it's not such a huge swing outside of the release weeks.
As almost always, you seem to be right, mtgo prices of those cards have climbed since the end of gp barcelona!
This was a fun GP and I can't forget to mention one portuguese on the top-8 as it is my home land ;)
Good article, liked your small reviews of all the different decks of t2 format, and I still wanna read more block articles before hawai!
don't know why but I can't vote, either way, 5 stars for you, keep up the good work
Isn't Shielding Plax just way better than Pemmin's Aura if you're interested in protecting Zur?
I'm sorry for the delay on the article, I hope its still useful for all of those who may read it.I'm also sorry about the outdated prices but it only shows how I was right (lol). Seismic Assault is now at a healthy 5 tix and Primal Command at 2,75. I hope you enjoyed it anyway.
The first graph is nearly perfect, just add the totals for all three formats combined to the right of each row please.
The second graph has bars too thin and less information.
The third graphs looks kinda pretty, but with the scales so compressed I dont think much information can be gained here.
MBC runs expanses to thin their deck of lands. MBC runs on high card quality and threat density rather than extreme card advantage like other control decks (MUC). When you thin your deck of lands you reduce the number of dead draws in the long run and thus increase your threat density and overall draw strength. The pilot calculated the risk/reward of the expanse inclusion and made the decision that the increase in draw strength outweighs the possibility of not being able to curve out perfectly every time.
A well-written deck walkthrough with an interesting concept and good appreciation for cost. If I could make one suggestion, it would be to use Magus of the Abyss over Big Game Hunter, as even just with a single haze it becomes a one-sided Barter in Blood, it doesn't touch your Tidehollow Strixes and you can abuse Blood Clock with it to keep its effect and avoid life loss. As a plus, a playset can be acquired for less than a ticket, and they have great synergy with Gibbering Descent's Hellbent.
...and fortunately we are not entirely without options whilst staying true to the 60-land concept. A Snow engine using Mouth of Ronom and the snow duals would trade early game speed for better hitting power. Another option is going for a full set of Rix Maadi and adding in Keldon Megaliths, but unfortunately there isn't a madness land, and the lands which work brilliantly well in the graveyard rotated out of Extended and thus Kaleidoscope. There are directions his deck can be taken with the addition of nonland cards: A few weeks back I demonstrated a 40-odd land Retrace deck along a similar principle.
Howeer, the strength to this style of deck is blanking so many cards your opponent has: A single multicolored spell switches his Errors and other counters back on, and a single multicolored permanent re-enables his Pures. Worse, because he has no other targets, he would most likely have an answer in hand instead of cursing futilely at its unexpected impotence. One compromise answer might be Assault/Battery, unique as it is in the format.
To address the salient point on one land a turn by the anonymous poster above, it's worth remembering that Zoetic Cavern helps out in that regard, often managing a 2-for-1 in trading with an opposing creature or drawing a wasted removal spell as it accelerates you as well.
The land deck has won: I use a general rule of thumb that if I can't get at least a handful of wins in the Casual room as a bare minimum, a deck isn't fit to see print.
Dark Depths and Trace is amusing, a cheaper form of Helix Pinnacle aside from forced sacrifice or Vesuva legend rule shenanigans, and there are a lot of other Kaleidoscope-legal tricks with the Depths. You can animate it with Genju of the Realm or Woodwraith Corrupter/Unstable Frontier and then hit it with Fate Transfer for an instant 20/20, which is great fun in response to removal aimed at the animated land. I love the idea of using it with Mayael's Aria for EOTMLYL.
Awesome article! Keep up the good work!