What I don't understand is why doesn't WOTC LOWER their prices for booster packs when these same booster re-sell for less and less and time goes on. And on top of that those same booster packs are being sold for more than they are worth! What I don't understand is how is this game going to pay off? I mean with real paper magic I am fully aware that my cards have value, no we don't sell boosters for less and sell booster for more than they are worth in some back room either. But seriously guys, someone has to address this namely because if an enterprising player wants to use a bot what are their choices? Pay 300 for the license and what not? And hope to compete off that one license with the hundreds of other bots out there that are probably run by the same people who sold you the license in the first place? In my opinion the marketplace has a strong availability of cards and boosters, but seriously. If I open my pack and get a crap rare the pack is worth jack, more like 0.238 tix if you ask me. It just doesn't seem to make ANY sense whatsoever to get truly involved in this software simply because it's way overpriced, the marketplace for cards is poor and the likely event of you opening packs that have something wothwhile in them is way below average. I like the software, its functionality but seriously folks this is getting ridiuclous and costly, especially during the times the people are in right now financially. Wizards has to consider lowering their prices, fixing their allotment of card in digital packs so they CORRECTLY reflect real sealed products. You crack a sealed booster box and then crack 36 digital packs and make the comparisons. Lower the prices on your packs, make selling cards simple and easy and fair for players looking to liquidate and stop ripping off players with your overpriced pool of crap cards. Someone has to write about this kind of thing, and extensively please.
Btw, nice article, I read your stuff all the time. Keep up the good work.
I like the Shambling in a more agressive build, but in general I prefer the versatily of a blocker over an agressive 3 drop.
Soul's fire is a much more situational card than the Fleshbag. It can be a blowout sometimes by going to the face or by chosing which critter to target. But it can be dodged with removal/bounce etc. Its a matter of opinion as I see it but I really prefer the marauder there.
The prices of Lorwyn Cryptic Command could be going down for any number of reasons. The release of the third set in a block is traditionally when the prices of rares from the last black start to crater. Also, Faeries is dropping out of favor for token decks. Only a few hundred promos are distributed versus tens(?) of thousands of non-promos, so I doubt they are impacting prices more than a few percent.
This was a great article, love the mix themes and this was the first draft walk through I actually agreed with nearly every pick. I wouldve taken the shambling remains hands down and I'm curious if my pick of Soul's fire over the 2nd Fleshbag is far off? I like the targetability and also when playing Jund you can often finish them off with it to the dome (esp when you take the exploding boarders you dislike haha)
Nice article, its fueling my inspiration to start writing for this site.
Thanks!
i wish there were quantity discounts, i think thats why the CAW was so f'ed up, free product is redic, esp. when you have to pay 4 bux for every pack, total bs, sell a box at 'cost' 80 bucks....just saying/
The HJ graphs from last week were way better than this time (just make those bars solid imho). In diagrams as small as these, seeing the actual values really adds important information that one won't get this way.
"You see, generally dealers crack a couple thousand packs of each new set. That number fluctuates from set to set and event to event, but generally for Standard legal sets they're looking at cracking a couple thousand packs."
Pretty sure that will not be happening this time. Now that we have prereleases the need for discount boxes is even more evident. Before we barely break even but now I don't think we will be able to break even at all.
One advantage of playing paper - I have already taken a limited deck made from 3 Shards and 3 Reborn packs through a four round event, finishing second. Here's the pool, my build, plus an analysis of the AAARRR format.
The prices on promos that weren't even distributed yet are really skewing the "promo" part of the collection value graphs, I think. It's barely moving, even though it should jump each time a promo is released. I guess that graph might prove interesting in the long term, but currently it's rather ...flat, because there's like 50 cards at placeholder value diluting the jumps of the actually released cards.
Also, the complete domination of promos in the "movers and shakers" is more representative of the difficulty of properly pricing promos because of the small supply and demand for them than anything going on in the MTGO economy. The effects on the actual, non-promo version of the cards, however, IS interesting, as I said last week, and I think the graph for promo+regular commands is a great way to present that data.
That said, I really wonder how much the price drop in commands is due to the release of the promo version, and how much of it is due to a shifting meta. The couple hundreds in circulation shouldn't have that much of an impact on a card that has a pretty decent supply available. It's highly possible the shifting meta towards token aggro is partly responsible. I'm also surprised the price of Windbrisks Heights hasn't moved, what with Flores' article, but I guess that'll show next week.
I agree with the others, Very nice article. The reposting of the decklist from that 5k tournament seem to be messed up tho.
In the draft I liked how you decided to grab double Nactl Outlander over the White flyer. Keeping the focus on small guys with the Fleshbags and Bone Splinters to gain maximum value out of them. Very nice.
On the surface the Outlander is very weak since blue guys fly but in practice he seems to play just fine.
In terms of the amount of QPs given out, one reason was this past week were CSP nix tix events, which I never saw fired, at most their were 5 people in a queue at one time before it ran out of steam. That may have something to do with it.
Well, It was actually Cedric Phillips that GerryT quoted when he said that. I also believe that those 3 RW where Chaotic Kitkins or just Wr versions of the deck.
I'm still trying to get a good list for the Pro Tour.
Good to see that besides the block testing you still talked about standard and even posted a draft.
Many pros have been saying that Boat Brew is bad because it "does nothing" (I think it was GerryT who said these exact words but I'm not sure). PV also thinks it's bad. And online it's very rare to see it which is one reason for GB Elves to be so popular as it as a terrible RW Lark match up.
Good luck at Honolulu and may the power of Lightning Helix be with you!
OOOhh... That's a really good topic. I agree that they don't need to be in the regular price charts. However! They are very important to note in the overall MTGO economy, namely because they are incentives that don't have any additional costs to WotC.
Pack prizes, in theory, cost WotC future sales (when a pack that would have been bought from WotC is instead bought from someone's prizes that's a pack lost to WotC... it's more complicated than that, but that's the basics).
Promos are cards that usurp secondary market value from already opened product, which is essentially WotC putting the prize support on the players themselves (and this is why I charted LRW's Cryptic Command in comparison to the newly released promo version). The dip in the regular is due to the demand in the promo, and these promos cost WotC nothing, but cost the secondary market buyers to foot the bill for the prize 'increase' of a promo.
It's a very interesting thing to watch... well, it's interesting to me anyway. :)
So short story long... I'll remove them from the normal parts of the charts, but they will be tracked in some way, even if I don't report them in each article. They are already responsible for moving some high priced cards' prices around which should certainly be noted when it happens. Otherwise the LRW Cryptic Command decrease wouldn't make much sense without the context of the Promo version pushing it down. ;)
i was the geddon loam guy he wasted 2 times on the PTQ ^^
standard needs to stabilize, don't be fooled by all the BW tokens appearing right now...
and look at Boat Brew results, so many played, none top8ed, reborn gives it nothing it seems
good article and great job qualifying, i hope we can test some more so you go to Honolulu FTW!
Promos will be ignored from the movers/shakers going forward. I'll also try to post a comment that has the top movers/shakers without the promos a little later today.
What I don't understand is why doesn't WOTC LOWER their prices for booster packs when these same booster re-sell for less and less and time goes on. And on top of that those same booster packs are being sold for more than they are worth! What I don't understand is how is this game going to pay off? I mean with real paper magic I am fully aware that my cards have value, no we don't sell boosters for less and sell booster for more than they are worth in some back room either. But seriously guys, someone has to address this namely because if an enterprising player wants to use a bot what are their choices? Pay 300 for the license and what not? And hope to compete off that one license with the hundreds of other bots out there that are probably run by the same people who sold you the license in the first place? In my opinion the marketplace has a strong availability of cards and boosters, but seriously. If I open my pack and get a crap rare the pack is worth jack, more like 0.238 tix if you ask me. It just doesn't seem to make ANY sense whatsoever to get truly involved in this software simply because it's way overpriced, the marketplace for cards is poor and the likely event of you opening packs that have something wothwhile in them is way below average. I like the software, its functionality but seriously folks this is getting ridiuclous and costly, especially during the times the people are in right now financially. Wizards has to consider lowering their prices, fixing their allotment of card in digital packs so they CORRECTLY reflect real sealed products. You crack a sealed booster box and then crack 36 digital packs and make the comparisons. Lower the prices on your packs, make selling cards simple and easy and fair for players looking to liquidate and stop ripping off players with your overpriced pool of crap cards. Someone has to write about this kind of thing, and extensively please.
Btw, nice article, I read your stuff all the time. Keep up the good work.
I like the Shambling in a more agressive build, but in general I prefer the versatily of a blocker over an agressive 3 drop.
Soul's fire is a much more situational card than the Fleshbag. It can be a blowout sometimes by going to the face or by chosing which critter to target. But it can be dodged with removal/bounce etc. Its a matter of opinion as I see it but I really prefer the marauder there.
The prices of Lorwyn Cryptic Command could be going down for any number of reasons. The release of the third set in a block is traditionally when the prices of rares from the last black start to crater. Also, Faeries is dropping out of favor for token decks. Only a few hundred promos are distributed versus tens(?) of thousands of non-promos, so I doubt they are impacting prices more than a few percent.
This was a great article, love the mix themes and this was the first draft walk through I actually agreed with nearly every pick. I wouldve taken the shambling remains hands down and I'm curious if my pick of Soul's fire over the 2nd Fleshbag is far off? I like the targetability and also when playing Jund you can often finish them off with it to the dome (esp when you take the exploding boarders you dislike haha)
Nice article, its fueling my inspiration to start writing for this site.
Thanks!
i wish there were quantity discounts, i think thats why the CAW was so f'ed up, free product is redic, esp. when you have to pay 4 bux for every pack, total bs, sell a box at 'cost' 80 bucks....just saying/
also, keep out promos,
lastly ok thats it
The HJ graphs from last week were way better than this time (just make those bars solid imho). In diagrams as small as these, seeing the actual values really adds important information that one won't get this way.
My user name in the MtGO forums is PRJ.
From the front page blurb:
One advantage of playing paper - I have already taken a limited deck made from 3 Shards and 3 Reborn packs through a four round event, finishing second. Here's the pool, my build, plus an analysis of the AAARRR format.
How could you play all this games? the set hasn't launched in mtgo yet right ?
I like your chart formats better than before. And keep those promos. Maybe on their own chart?
The prices on promos that weren't even distributed yet are really skewing the "promo" part of the collection value graphs, I think. It's barely moving, even though it should jump each time a promo is released. I guess that graph might prove interesting in the long term, but currently it's rather ...flat, because there's like 50 cards at placeholder value diluting the jumps of the actually released cards.
Also, the complete domination of promos in the "movers and shakers" is more representative of the difficulty of properly pricing promos because of the small supply and demand for them than anything going on in the MTGO economy. The effects on the actual, non-promo version of the cards, however, IS interesting, as I said last week, and I think the graph for promo+regular commands is a great way to present that data.
That said, I really wonder how much the price drop in commands is due to the release of the promo version, and how much of it is due to a shifting meta. The couple hundreds in circulation shouldn't have that much of an impact on a card that has a pretty decent supply available. It's highly possible the shifting meta towards token aggro is partly responsible. I'm also surprised the price of Windbrisks Heights hasn't moved, what with Flores' article, but I guess that'll show next week.
I agree with the others, Very nice article. The reposting of the decklist from that 5k tournament seem to be messed up tho.
In the draft I liked how you decided to grab double Nactl Outlander over the White flyer. Keeping the focus on small guys with the Fleshbags and Bone Splinters to gain maximum value out of them. Very nice.
On the surface the Outlander is very weak since blue guys fly but in practice he seems to play just fine.
-M
I'd like to see the promos stay in the charts.
In terms of the amount of QPs given out, one reason was this past week were CSP nix tix events, which I never saw fired, at most their were 5 people in a queue at one time before it ran out of steam. That may have something to do with it.
Keep the promos in the charts!
Well, It was actually Cedric Phillips that GerryT quoted when he said that. I also believe that those 3 RW where Chaotic Kitkins or just Wr versions of the deck.
I'm still trying to get a good list for the Pro Tour.
Good to see that besides the block testing you still talked about standard and even posted a draft.
Many pros have been saying that Boat Brew is bad because it "does nothing" (I think it was GerryT who said these exact words but I'm not sure). PV also thinks it's bad. And online it's very rare to see it which is one reason for GB Elves to be so popular as it as a terrible RW Lark match up.
Good luck at Honolulu and may the power of Lightning Helix be with you!
OOOhh... That's a really good topic. I agree that they don't need to be in the regular price charts. However! They are very important to note in the overall MTGO economy, namely because they are incentives that don't have any additional costs to WotC.
Pack prizes, in theory, cost WotC future sales (when a pack that would have been bought from WotC is instead bought from someone's prizes that's a pack lost to WotC... it's more complicated than that, but that's the basics).
Promos are cards that usurp secondary market value from already opened product, which is essentially WotC putting the prize support on the players themselves (and this is why I charted LRW's Cryptic Command in comparison to the newly released promo version). The dip in the regular is due to the demand in the promo, and these promos cost WotC nothing, but cost the secondary market buyers to foot the bill for the prize 'increase' of a promo.
It's a very interesting thing to watch... well, it's interesting to me anyway. :)
So short story long... I'll remove them from the normal parts of the charts, but they will be tracked in some way, even if I don't report them in each article. They are already responsible for moving some high priced cards' prices around which should certainly be noted when it happens. Otherwise the LRW Cryptic Command decrease wouldn't make much sense without the context of the Promo version pushing it down. ;)
i was the geddon loam guy he wasted 2 times on the PTQ ^^
standard needs to stabilize, don't be fooled by all the BW tokens appearing right now...
and look at Boat Brew results, so many played, none top8ed, reborn gives it nothing it seems
good article and great job qualifying, i hope we can test some more so you go to Honolulu FTW!
Thank you for the advice. Longer paragraphs seem to be a result of writing too many position papers in college.
I do agree that the promos don't have much to do with the economy online.
The readers have spoken!
Promos will be ignored from the movers/shakers going forward. I'll also try to post a comment that has the top movers/shakers without the promos a little later today.
I agree I'd rather see the Card Price Charts without the promos. Is it possible you could post the first two charts without these?
Thanks
removing the promos is a good idea