I think one of the major problems with strategies like LD or MonoU Permission are twofold; that the players who play those types of decks enjoy it but know that it frustrates their opponents and that those type of players tend to go all out. If someone is playing LD they they are playing 16 LD spells, not just 2 or 3.
While I agree that the underlying principles of the strategy are valid, those types of decks also frustrate new players (and Std is the main entry format for new players) and so WotC wants to keep the aggregate number of those types of spells in STD low.
This one's a very interesting question. Is a deck with 4x Figure of Destiny as rares acceptable for Budget Deck (the article says it should have only 4 rares. But can we consider Figure of Destiny as a budget rare?)?
Maybe at the very least different rooms (or 'zones' within the same room - trying to envisage the UI...) for different game types (one for Standard, one for Classic, etc.).
Although I have to second the thoughts about certain card choices, the style really made me want to read it to the end. You should do another one for sure, keeping in mind the words being said here. gimlicolby's point is very viable, as are milkshake's.
mono u mill decks are a nice addition to the metagame and i think they deserve a lot of respect. they can tear apart slower decks and do have some nice moves to stall aggressive decks, too. i would consider them because of the lack of viable anti-mill stuff a tier 2 deck right now. what do you have against it? wheel of sun and moon, primal command and countermagic (but latter part is not that easy with twin cast around)
if you are a blue mage, you need to protect yourself and this is how you are supposed to do it, by countering. sure, the original counterspell was one of the best answers on creatures and spells all time and with that its usability was higher than a plain terror. but the problem is that without it, blue is helpless. AND you have to think ahead and leave the mana open, which is often not as easy as it seems especially when on the draw.
if i look at the counters nowadays, i see b roken amibitions, remove soul and the blue wog cryptic command. the command is one of the most powerful spells around, no need to argue about that (though i think in anything alse than std it looses a lot of its power as the threats are coming far before you hit four mana) but remove soul? if i remove soul your thoctar, whats the deal? i could also terror him for the same amount of mana at the same speed. broken ambitions is a soft counter and sometimes not even usable.
what is the net thing we need to hear complaints about? terror? because it kills your creature? path to exile? because you won't get that precious boy back with the lark? this game should be more than just bashing, i want to think in this strategic game otherwise i would play yu-gi-oh.
on land destruction, i like that, too. but it is hard to get the upper hand with it and if you don't it won't work out as a deck concept at all. but at least on LD i do understand some complaining as it really can make a game terribly boring for one side of the table if the mana base is reduced to dust and you cannot do anything at all against it. it is possible to remove one person out of the game completely, that is not the case with counters though. you can play around them if you are smarter than a plum.
I played a Grinding deck. It is very, very good against 5c, but it is very, very bad against BR Blightning, bad against aggro with Red in general (way too dependant on Plumeveil), surprisingly bad against Bant (Plumeveil is rapidly obsoleted due to the Exalted bonuses). Maybe it is due to some spoilered cards from ARB that can help a milling strategy, because I don't think the rise is justified just because there was the article in the official site. It is rather matchup dependent, so I'd think it is sort of similar to Merfolk in that respect.
I didn't quite understand how the decks will be judged. 50% for originality and 50% for playablility?
Also, do I have to submit a 100% home made pure Johnny deck in order to win or do I have a chance of winning if I submit an obvious, say, R/G aggro deck build around that R/G Liege?
One of them would be very interesting and original but wouldn't win against serious decks. The other can win even tournaments but may not be that original.
So what are you exactly looking for? A pure Johnny deck or a tier-1 Spike deck?
I also noticed the complete lack of land destruction. I actually find LD fun! Of course, I play mostly casual classic, not standard, so I built it anyway. And some people cry. But it's not like I have Sinkhole. (MED3 please!)
I noticed back during Lorwyn block that standard needed some serious LD. "How many of your lands come into play tapped? Is that your only source of black mana? I mean besides your REFLECTING POOL. heh." Oh I just want to Stone Rain their brains out. Obviously control decks play a ton of lands anyway. But LD is the natural foil for overly greedy manabases. I think the "awesome lands vs. land destruction" scale is out of balance.
Something else that kind of bothers me, though I secretly love it, is that instants and sorceries are about as hard to remove as a planeswalker, if not harder. Every color can deal with creatures. (Green answers the threat with more or better creatures, at least.) Some colors also remove artifacts or enchantments. But only blue can really stop instants or sorceries. And like you said, that ability of blue has been nerfed. I kind of can't believe that an 8 mana sorcery is a spike card. (Again, I secretly love it.)
I have some advice for the casual room "no counters, no LD, no discard, no fighting" crowd who designed the current T2. First, enjoy it, because I play classic when I play anything. Second, hard counters are not broken. Back before the color wheel was the color wheel, I rationalized it like this: White gets Disenchant, black gets Terror, and Blue gets Counterspell - which has the versatility of both! But in order to use it, you have to be ready with it, and you have to leave mana open. Topdecking a Counterspell with the Shivian on the table won't do you a lick of good. I thought it was fair! Sadly, faeries with flash totally break my crappy 1995 color wheel. But the problem that caused the knee-jerk reaction is the flash tribe, not the counter magic.
Also, "___ cannot be countered" is the new "___ cannot be regenerated". Remember when no-regeneration was slapped onto 1 in 3 removal spells? And all the good ones too, like Incinerate, Terror, and Wrath? That totally hoses the point of regenerators having staying power. And so it is with countermagic nowadays. Vexing Shusher has a narrow purpose. But Volcanic Fallout (instant Pyroclasm) and Spellbreaker Behemoth (undercosted fat) would be good cards anyway.
the deck makes some very odd card choices (hallowed burial/sphinx) but looks like a fun deck. It does not look anywhere near tourney worthy, but since you didnt say you have entered tourneys with it, thats fine too. Your writing is good, though a bit short of an article. I think my only real complaint is that you have chosen to write about something that you admit you are no good at. Because of that you didnt relay much helpful info. Try writing about aggro, since thats what you like to play anyways.
bro Mugsy boogus (forgot name) was a 5'4 basketball player in the NBA who could dunk. how? with hard work dedication and ambition. I say we give him another chance and see what's going on, i have had conversations with raevin on vent and he knows the meta games and decklists maybe he just isn't a natural writer and needs to hone his skill
That is the purpose of this site. You may think he's wrong, that's fine... tell him so specifically. But don't stifle anyone. This is a place that is meant as an open forum about mtgo. We shouldn't censor each other here.
That would be nice... evidently the image scaling software hates that gif with a passion. :(
yes to both
no. Warhammer was the first example that sprung to mind
yes
I think one of the major problems with strategies like LD or MonoU Permission are twofold; that the players who play those types of decks enjoy it but know that it frustrates their opponents and that those type of players tend to go all out. If someone is playing LD they they are playing 16 LD spells, not just 2 or 3.
While I agree that the underlying principles of the strategy are valid, those types of decks also frustrate new players (and Std is the main entry format for new players) and so WotC wants to keep the aggregate number of those types of spells in STD low.
Just wanted to mention I like reading your articles, please keep 'm coming!
This one's a very interesting question. Is a deck with 4x Figure of Destiny as rares acceptable for Budget Deck (the article says it should have only 4 rares. But can we consider Figure of Destiny as a budget rare?)?
And do the mythic rares count as rares?
LE
You raise a very good point - it's not just about the experience/ability of the player: the deck strength idea sounds good.
Could even (wish list alert!) have the system keep track of how well your deck is doing:
'It looks like your deck rated * is consistently beating *** decks - do you wish to upgrade its rating?'
...or *you* are doing:
'You've ranked yourself a ** player, but are consistently beating ***** players - do you want to give yourself more credit?'
...although obviously not in such an annoying Microsoft Clippy way. :-)
Maybe at the very least different rooms (or 'zones' within the same room - trying to envisage the UI...) for different game types (one for Standard, one for Classic, etc.).
Although I have to second the thoughts about certain card choices, the style really made me want to read it to the end. You should do another one for sure, keeping in mind the words being said here. gimlicolby's point is very viable, as are milkshake's.
It isn't clear if one can use, say, 4 Ajani Vengeant for the budget contest (it seems 4 Figure of Destiny is a valid choice ;) )
Ivo.
mono u mill decks are a nice addition to the metagame and i think they deserve a lot of respect. they can tear apart slower decks and do have some nice moves to stall aggressive decks, too. i would consider them because of the lack of viable anti-mill stuff a tier 2 deck right now. what do you have against it? wheel of sun and moon, primal command and countermagic (but latter part is not that easy with twin cast around)
i agree on Katastrophe on what he said.
if you are a blue mage, you need to protect yourself and this is how you are supposed to do it, by countering. sure, the original counterspell was one of the best answers on creatures and spells all time and with that its usability was higher than a plain terror. but the problem is that without it, blue is helpless. AND you have to think ahead and leave the mana open, which is often not as easy as it seems especially when on the draw.
if i look at the counters nowadays, i see b roken amibitions, remove soul and the blue wog cryptic command. the command is one of the most powerful spells around, no need to argue about that (though i think in anything alse than std it looses a lot of its power as the threats are coming far before you hit four mana) but remove soul? if i remove soul your thoctar, whats the deal? i could also terror him for the same amount of mana at the same speed. broken ambitions is a soft counter and sometimes not even usable.
what is the net thing we need to hear complaints about? terror? because it kills your creature? path to exile? because you won't get that precious boy back with the lark? this game should be more than just bashing, i want to think in this strategic game otherwise i would play yu-gi-oh.
on land destruction, i like that, too. but it is hard to get the upper hand with it and if you don't it won't work out as a deck concept at all. but at least on LD i do understand some complaining as it really can make a game terribly boring for one side of the table if the mana base is reduced to dust and you cannot do anything at all against it. it is possible to remove one person out of the game completely, that is not the case with counters though. you can play around them if you are smarter than a plum.
I played a Grinding deck. It is very, very good against 5c, but it is very, very bad against BR Blightning, bad against aggro with Red in general (way too dependant on Plumeveil), surprisingly bad against Bant (Plumeveil is rapidly obsoleted due to the Exalted bonuses). Maybe it is due to some spoilered cards from ARB that can help a milling strategy, because I don't think the rise is justified just because there was the article in the official site. It is rather matchup dependent, so I'd think it is sort of similar to Merfolk in that respect.
Ivo.
thank you for listing the decks and trasher is good and so is cold eyed at least in legacy
I wouldn't have a clue. Don't play standard so I can't comment on the card choices etc.
I do write. Teach writing. Enjoy writing. I like reading too. Derrida, Foccault, and I don't mind reading Raevin. He writes like he speaks.
Keep at it mate, have friends read the next one if it helps.
I'll be by the billabong with my swag if you need me.
um you used loxodon warhammer as an example, does that mean we're allowed to use artifacts?
can we enter decks for both Kaleidoscope and budget Kaleidoscope contests?
I didn't quite understand how the decks will be judged. 50% for originality and 50% for playablility?
Also, do I have to submit a 100% home made pure Johnny deck in order to win or do I have a chance of winning if I submit an obvious, say, R/G aggro deck build around that R/G Liege?
One of them would be very interesting and original but wouldn't win against serious decks. The other can win even tournaments but may not be that original.
So what are you exactly looking for? A pure Johnny deck or a tier-1 Spike deck?
LE
I also noticed the complete lack of land destruction. I actually find LD fun! Of course, I play mostly casual classic, not standard, so I built it anyway. And some people cry. But it's not like I have Sinkhole. (MED3 please!)
I noticed back during Lorwyn block that standard needed some serious LD. "How many of your lands come into play tapped? Is that your only source of black mana? I mean besides your REFLECTING POOL. heh." Oh I just want to Stone Rain their brains out. Obviously control decks play a ton of lands anyway. But LD is the natural foil for overly greedy manabases. I think the "awesome lands vs. land destruction" scale is out of balance.
Something else that kind of bothers me, though I secretly love it, is that instants and sorceries are about as hard to remove as a planeswalker, if not harder. Every color can deal with creatures. (Green answers the threat with more or better creatures, at least.) Some colors also remove artifacts or enchantments. But only blue can really stop instants or sorceries. And like you said, that ability of blue has been nerfed. I kind of can't believe that an 8 mana sorcery is a spike card. (Again, I secretly love it.)
I have some advice for the casual room "no counters, no LD, no discard, no fighting" crowd who designed the current T2. First, enjoy it, because I play classic when I play anything. Second, hard counters are not broken. Back before the color wheel was the color wheel, I rationalized it like this: White gets Disenchant, black gets Terror, and Blue gets Counterspell - which has the versatility of both! But in order to use it, you have to be ready with it, and you have to leave mana open. Topdecking a Counterspell with the Shivian on the table won't do you a lick of good. I thought it was fair! Sadly, faeries with flash totally break my crappy 1995 color wheel. But the problem that caused the knee-jerk reaction is the flash tribe, not the counter magic.
Also, "___ cannot be countered" is the new "___ cannot be regenerated". Remember when no-regeneration was slapped onto 1 in 3 removal spells? And all the good ones too, like Incinerate, Terror, and Wrath? That totally hoses the point of regenerators having staying power. And so it is with countermagic nowadays. Vexing Shusher has a narrow purpose. But Volcanic Fallout (instant Pyroclasm) and Spellbreaker Behemoth (undercosted fat) would be good cards anyway.
the deck makes some very odd card choices (hallowed burial/sphinx) but looks like a fun deck. It does not look anywhere near tourney worthy, but since you didnt say you have entered tourneys with it, thats fine too. Your writing is good, though a bit short of an article. I think my only real complaint is that you have chosen to write about something that you admit you are no good at. Because of that you didnt relay much helpful info. Try writing about aggro, since thats what you like to play anyways.
No sideboard.
bro Mugsy boogus (forgot name) was a 5'4 basketball player in the NBA who could dunk. how? with hard work dedication and ambition. I say we give him another chance and see what's going on, i have had conversations with raevin on vent and he knows the meta games and decklists maybe he just isn't a natural writer and needs to hone his skill
No sideboard I assume?
That is the purpose of this site. You may think he's wrong, that's fine... tell him so specifically. But don't stifle anyone. This is a place that is meant as an open forum about mtgo. We shouldn't censor each other here.