Whilst it is true that I usually test these decks in the casual room and tweak them until they win, I've tended not to focus much on that aspect in the Art of Tribal Wars. Then again, the column's two-year run has been patchy to say the least. I'll consider it as an option.
As to what's good, the marquee tribes are usually the place to go. Onslaught block showcased elves, clerics, soldiers, beasts, goblins, zombies, birds, wizards, illusions and slivers. Kamigawa went spirits, snakes and samurai, Lorwyn specialised in giants, treefolk, elves, goblins, elementals, faeries, merfolk and kithkin, with Morningtide turning to soldiers, wizards, rogues, shamen and warriors. It is possible to build a soldier or zombie deck which is almost entirely composed of Lords now. Also, you can build around tribal engines such as Haakon, Stromgald Scourge or Gilt-Leaf Archdruid. If you want the best, most spike-oriented decks, look at the pro lists for decks that were good enough for the big time and happen to be tribal, such as Goblin bidding, Elves! and Faerie control.
Good article. You have saved me some work too, I had a work in progress of a counterbalance article which I mentioned in the last Eternal Wisdoms. Counterbalance is a deck I like to pilot but I hate to play against it. Good job U_T_H
Because even after you stick a COP: Black you have to win. I'm undefeated against White and GW Sliver decks with COPB with MBC. You time them out by attacking every turn, removing any important threats, etc.
Its good to read about a not so popular online format. i currently have 11 different tribal decks most of which are unusual. its not difficult to win playing elves, slivers, or goblins but avatars or hydras is just plain fun.
Would be nice to see some games played with the decks. Theorizing is fun but playing a few games and talking about how the deck runs would be quite a bit more valuable, at least to me.
By the way...are there any stats on Tribal decks available. Whats good/bad. I hear rumors that "Knight" and "Goblin" are the best but Ive never seen any decklists. Just curious if you knew.
Why do white decks eschew cop: black in their sideboards? From what I've seen, MBC can't handle that card at all. They have to attack with Dross Golems, Crypt Rat activations 1 at a time, or get lucky with duress or distress, but the game is basically over once that enchantment hits the table.
Once again Wizards completly forgot about GMT zone players :( I understand that only Americans playing Magic online :( But why there is no events according afternoon GMT time like 7PM 8PM - sometimes we are given an event like classic etc.
It was pointed out to me that we didn't cite our source for the rumor information, which is very bad form indeed.
All rumor credit goes to the fine folks at www.mtgsalvation.com for their efforts and work at bringing us all the finest MTG Rumors on the net. Sorry about that!
Also, all cards that are discussed are only rumors until they're printed and as such can be subject to drastically changing between spoiling and seeing print. Any use of the information for buying/selling/trading is done at the individuals own risk!
Pretty much how I would of answered it. We only use software to show us which cards need fixing basically. We have a way to show which cards are "hot" or "cold" meaning they are either selling faster than we can keep in stock or not selling at all. We then adjust prices accordingly.
And it looks like the end of 2007. Wow. That's insane how long I've been doing these between the boards and then PureMTGO. It's also rather amazing that I've been writing long enough to become self-referential. That's pretty crazy.
One of these days I'm going to implement a historical "this week in MTGO" where I look at the same week a year or two previous. That should be interesting. :D
Honestly, my hope is that this is an efficiency upgrade. Eliminate unnecessary information transfer. Like, for example, when a big tourney starts and a bunch of the people click on their opponents names to see what their ratings are. Lagg spike?
Also, isnt it obvious that better players will play in tournaments with higher overall payouts, and with payouts skewed to the top, and players who dont trust their ability to consistently win three matches will play in the tournaments that still give them product even if they lose before the finals?
The really interesting thing IMO is that the value of a QP could change the whole setup. If you value a QP the same as lets say a pack, then the 4322 actually pays 5322. This makes the total payout more in line with the 8-4 tourneys (8-4 has a tougher crowd which equals a lower chance to win it and the QP payout is the same as the potentially weaker player filled 4322). I'd certainly expect more higher rated people to be getting into the 4322's to capitalize on that.
Hey! nice to see my altered RG aggro on this list! Just for clarification, i was worried about Mono-blue, so thats why the nacatls and the beetle. I traded the fanatics for some burn (shock) to get more surprise on creature removal.
Actually it was my first Pauper tournament, and good to know i did good. This will be one of my favorites formats.
As far as I know, they price their cards based on supply/demand. The IPA cards are a strange thing though. I don't think they use a mathematical formula for each price, just a person looking at the situation and adjusting accordingly.
A lot of the price of the IPA cards is due to scarcity mixed with playability. The reason is that IPA was never the 'new block' on MTGO. When MTGO went live it started with IPA and OTJ in the queues and the OTJ events took priority for most players as it was the 'new thing'. As such, the IPA cards in general cost more than similar power levels of equally powerful cards in new sets. Terminate is one example of this strange phenomenon.
Are MTGOtraders pricing methodologies proprietary? If not, can we see it?
If it is proprietary, is there any way you can give us some ideas of how it is calculated? Clearly its some sort of supply, demand formula, but I'd love to get a better sense of what some of the older prices mean.
It seems that for popular cards, a market exists to drive a market price, but for random invasion cards it doesnt seem to exist. I know MTGOtraders is not in fact a price guide, and is in fact a store, but it is without a doubt a de facto price guide.
They were probably already pondering about this stuff. Then they pondered more when they made queues "pay out" QPs. I really think your articles urged them to act sooner though, I can really see this sort of study as undesirable to WotC.
So basically I agree with you that you had something to do with it - not the cause, certainly, but VERY likely one of the enablers for the decision to have taken place now.
There will be a jund deck now, a guy managed to somehow beat me in the last round to make it yesterday. he told me he just loaded the deck because he had it, i don't think he changed anything for conflux.. Was playing 5cc, won the 2 PE before including the Big one on sunday, so you'll prolly get my awful list this week ;)
you have the first comment wrong. The second deck uses 2 more removal cards and 2 less creatures. Not the opposite, so I kind of think you messed up the first metagame prediction. Also both decks use the same number of Okibas main deck: 2.While slashrush still has 1 in his side making HIS list the one with the okiba advantage.
Whilst it is true that I usually test these decks in the casual room and tweak them until they win, I've tended not to focus much on that aspect in the Art of Tribal Wars. Then again, the column's two-year run has been patchy to say the least. I'll consider it as an option.
As to what's good, the marquee tribes are usually the place to go. Onslaught block showcased elves, clerics, soldiers, beasts, goblins, zombies, birds, wizards, illusions and slivers. Kamigawa went spirits, snakes and samurai, Lorwyn specialised in giants, treefolk, elves, goblins, elementals, faeries, merfolk and kithkin, with Morningtide turning to soldiers, wizards, rogues, shamen and warriors. It is possible to build a soldier or zombie deck which is almost entirely composed of Lords now. Also, you can build around tribal engines such as Haakon, Stromgald Scourge or Gilt-Leaf Archdruid. If you want the best, most spike-oriented decks, look at the pro lists for decks that were good enough for the big time and happen to be tribal, such as Goblin bidding, Elves! and Faerie control.
Good article. You have saved me some work too, I had a work in progress of a counterbalance article which I mentioned in the last Eternal Wisdoms. Counterbalance is a deck I like to pilot but I hate to play against it. Good job U_T_H
Because even after you stick a COP: Black you have to win. I'm undefeated against White and GW Sliver decks with COPB with MBC. You time them out by attacking every turn, removing any important threats, etc.
Its good to read about a not so popular online format. i currently have 11 different tribal decks most of which are unusual. its not difficult to win playing elves, slivers, or goblins but avatars or hydras is just plain fun.
Would be nice to see some games played with the decks. Theorizing is fun but playing a few games and talking about how the deck runs would be quite a bit more valuable, at least to me.
By the way...are there any stats on Tribal decks available. Whats good/bad. I hear rumors that "Knight" and "Goblin" are the best but Ive never seen any decklists. Just curious if you knew.
-M
Why do white decks eschew cop: black in their sideboards? From what I've seen, MBC can't handle that card at all. They have to attack with Dross Golems, Crypt Rat activations 1 at a time, or get lucky with duress or distress, but the game is basically over once that enchantment hits the table.
the topic is nice but the article looks like a catalog ... what a pity !
Once again Wizards completly forgot about GMT zone players :( I understand that only Americans playing Magic online :( But why there is no events according afternoon GMT time like 7PM 8PM - sometimes we are given an event like classic etc.
nothing really new here and definitely not enough analysis
sorry for that, i am sure the next article would be better
It was pointed out to me that we didn't cite our source for the rumor information, which is very bad form indeed.
All rumor credit goes to the fine folks at www.mtgsalvation.com for their efforts and work at bringing us all the finest MTG Rumors on the net. Sorry about that!
Also, all cards that are discussed are only rumors until they're printed and as such can be subject to drastically changing between spoiling and seeing print. Any use of the information for buying/selling/trading is done at the individuals own risk!
I was unaware of that fact. Thank you for that information!
And it looks like the end of 2007. Wow. That's insane how long I've been doing these between the boards and then PureMTGO. It's also rather amazing that I've been writing long enough to become self-referential. That's pretty crazy.
One of these days I'm going to implement a historical "this week in MTGO" where I look at the same week a year or two previous. That should be interesting. :D
Honestly, my hope is that this is an efficiency upgrade. Eliminate unnecessary information transfer. Like, for example, when a big tourney starts and a bunch of the people click on their opponents names to see what their ratings are. Lagg spike?
Also, isnt it obvious that better players will play in tournaments with higher overall payouts, and with payouts skewed to the top, and players who dont trust their ability to consistently win three matches will play in the tournaments that still give them product even if they lose before the finals?
The really interesting thing IMO is that the value of a QP could change the whole setup. If you value a QP the same as lets say a pack, then the 4322 actually pays 5322. This makes the total payout more in line with the 8-4 tourneys (8-4 has a tougher crowd which equals a lower chance to win it and the QP payout is the same as the potentially weaker player filled 4322). I'd certainly expect more higher rated people to be getting into the 4322's to capitalize on that.
-M
Hey! nice to see my altered RG aggro on this list! Just for clarification, i was worried about Mono-blue, so thats why the nacatls and the beetle. I traded the fanatics for some burn (shock) to get more surprise on creature removal.
Actually it was my first Pauper tournament, and good to know i did good. This will be one of my favorites formats.
Lots of possibilities...
c ya!
As far as I know, they price their cards based on supply/demand. The IPA cards are a strange thing though. I don't think they use a mathematical formula for each price, just a person looking at the situation and adjusting accordingly.
A lot of the price of the IPA cards is due to scarcity mixed with playability. The reason is that IPA was never the 'new block' on MTGO. When MTGO went live it started with IPA and OTJ in the queues and the OTJ events took priority for most players as it was the 'new thing'. As such, the IPA cards in general cost more than similar power levels of equally powerful cards in new sets. Terminate is one example of this strange phenomenon.
Are MTGOtraders pricing methodologies proprietary? If not, can we see it?
If it is proprietary, is there any way you can give us some ideas of how it is calculated? Clearly its some sort of supply, demand formula, but I'd love to get a better sense of what some of the older prices mean.
It seems that for popular cards, a market exists to drive a market price, but for random invasion cards it doesnt seem to exist. I know MTGOtraders is not in fact a price guide, and is in fact a store, but it is without a doubt a de facto price guide.
Thanks,
donramses/mtgo
They were probably already pondering about this stuff. Then they pondered more when they made queues "pay out" QPs. I really think your articles urged them to act sooner though, I can really see this sort of study as undesirable to WotC.
So basically I agree with you that you had something to do with it - not the cause, certainly, but VERY likely one of the enablers for the decision to have taken place now.
Thanks for the quick response! Keep up the great work.
I am sorry about the lack of quality this time around. All lists can be found here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p9e5F564yA-N2Uswc1TJBBA
-Alex
I will be sure to look for it! Thanks for the update and congrats
2 for 2 with the Pauper recaps. Thanks for all your work putting this together.
Was the 20th place Burn deck omitted by accident? The colon teased the deck list and this red mage was slapped with an MUC deck instead!
;-)
Can you please post the 20th place burn list? Thanks again.
There will be a jund deck now, a guy managed to somehow beat me in the last round to make it yesterday. he told me he just loaded the deck because he had it, i don't think he changed anything for conflux.. Was playing 5cc, won the 2 PE before including the Big one on sunday, so you'll prolly get my awful list this week ;)
It's a bummer that you can't continue the series.
I'm having trouble seeing how one can go infinite in Swiss Drafts, though.
you have the first comment wrong. The second deck uses 2 more removal cards and 2 less creatures. Not the opposite, so I kind of think you messed up the first metagame prediction. Also both decks use the same number of Okibas main deck: 2.While slashrush still has 1 in his side making HIS list the one with the okiba advantage.