btw rd 2 of classic, blue vs red tribes the answer is not obvious, i mean aparently you won since you took a loss later in the swiss but i have to feel like the red goblins is favored since they can just vomit out guys like you wouldnt believe. maybe the noughts helped you win?
very nice there steve, i have just finished getting mutas and the unc merfolk i need to build the blue menace and currently sower of temptation lives in my sb but they could just as eaisly come in for the noughts to help solve the agro race equation.
Dreadnought is a fantastic beatstick and will win the game , but isn't your most problematic card explosives? not only does nought die eaisly to this but you are getting rid of a very important stifle to just get your 1 mana win con exploded and now you cant even stifle the trigger just my thoughts.
Personally, I've been thinking about a Rosheen EDH deck. The cool part about EDH is that the very nature of the format allows you to tutor up Rosheen and bring her back over and over again if she keeps dying (at an increasing cost, of course).
I started working on a decklist. I recall having about 70 cards in the list, minus land, but I scrapped it after I realized that I didn't own a majority of the cards, and it turned out to be a quite a bit of money to spend on a casual deck I probably wouldn't play that often. Not to mention that figuring out what to cut from the deck would have been a pain.
I apologize again for not including many test games for the second deck. I tried, man, I really did - I was in that stupid room for hours battling the lag (and losing).
i was thinking about to add some removal. If pongify, ovinize or snake form seem too weak & expansive to be relevant, maybe Psionic Blast could be interesting to try (x2 for example) : 4 damages is enough to burn many creature but it also could be a good way to finish your opponent if its control lock is being to be completed or if your creature could not attack for any reasons.
I am really not convinced for the moment because 3 CMC sounds as so slow compared to the card's effect, so maybe it is another useless idea...
Wow, you get 8 games with the first deck, a tournament report, and a third deck, and you aren't satisfied? Plus, if you've been on MTGO recently you would know about the horrible lag issues that were going on to keep games from firing. I think there was plenty in this article.
The Telepathy part was hilarious. It's not like you are physically putting your cards on the table like Magic: Pants. Easy mistake to make. Good article.
Great artical. I was looking for a good list of Loom decks featuring Knight of the Reliquary. I scoured through the listings on DeckCheck and find myself close to fielding a solid loom deck in EXT also. Anyway, I don't care what anyone has to say, it is always good to read about your ideas and then apply them to my own decklists. It is what makes great teams of players. So, keep it up like I know you will and Ill see you online sometime in the near future.
You are absolutely correct that Classic Merfolk has several fundamental problems, the most glaring of which is that it can't take out creatures. Some lists play Chain of Vapor main to give the deck SOME way to deal with cards on board, but for the most part if something resolves against Merfolk - it's sticking around. Adding Phyrexian Dreadnought does NOT solve this problem. If your opponent stick Tarmogoyf, then there is not a whole lot that you can do about it.
Phyrexian Dreadnought does help a lot in the aggro matchup. If you're playing against something like Zoo, Burn, or RDW - then an early Stifle+Dreadnought gives you a HUGE advantage. It's also somewhat of a surprise move against a lot of players, who will just not see it coming.
Your Stifle point is a good one, and it part of the reason why I would like to try this list with only two copies of Dreadnought. The bad news is that Dreadnought is dead without Stifle. The good news here is that Stifle fits right into your strategy - it denies your opponent mana (along with Wasteland, and probably Back to Basics once Urza's block comes online), stops troublesome threats like Engineered Explosives, etc. In my experience Stifle is rarely a dead card.
Running Trinket Mage to tutor for Dreadnought and awesome sideboard cards like Pithing Needle is a really interesting idea - I'll have to think about this one. I've also been wondering lately if this deck wants Chrome Mox...
Nought solves a big problem: The deck is pretty hard to beat aggro with. With him, you have a chance to kill RDW before they can kill you, outrace ZOO, etc.
yeah, ths article is nice.
Firstly because it explains very well tips and it shares interesting way of playing to players. Secondly because it covers all format that is really interesting to discover format we dont know well.
A great great job ! We need more article as yours.
i would have 2 comments but only about classic, because this is the format i know better than others.
About the Dreadfolk concept : well, it is good idea to mix these 2 strategies. I didnt test this deck for the moment however i played dreadstill and merfolk many times as well, but not toghether.
My first thinking is about the strategy : usualy, the dreadnought is used in decks which provides a strong defense, in order to kill the opponent in the fastest way is it possible to do. I mean in dreadstill, almost all others cards are counter, including all the countertop stuff : the dreadnought enters in the game to kill the opponent in 2 turns, supposing you countered all opponent's threat. It works well. But here, the merfolk archetype wont provide the same defense. It gives others but not as many counter as dreadstill. So it could be a danger (you would tell me, i am not sure) : usualy, the biggest weakness i identified in merfolk is the lack of hard removal (it remains based on an aggro philosophy : you dont remove, you have to overfill the board with creatures to flood your opponent) ... and dreadnoughts dont provide any removal. The seond weakness is the "creature win condition's dependance = you cannot win without providing damage with your creatures. Dreadnought is a huge threat but wont give any solution to you vs a moat or a recuring EE ... So finaly, dreadnought improves your creature power (a lot!) but wont solve natural weakness of the deck. That being said, it does not mean it is not efficient.
Still about strategy, the deck seems "under-tutorised". Usualy this is not a problem because you are running very solid draw engine (still, adept ...). But in an optimal tempo, dreadnought cannot be played alone = you need stifle. Then, tutors seem crazy useful to avoid keeping dreadnought as a deadcard in hand. Without any tutor to get stifle (mystical, scroll...) or to get Dreadnought (as could be trinket mage, enlighted ...), it could be risky and underoptimized. Here again, you would tell me.
A last word about the choice brainstorm/ponder. Basicaly, it strongly depends of the amount of fetch cards you are running. Brainstorm is much better in many case : to play it at instant quickness, to replace a deadcard, to avoid to discard a key card because of an early duress/seize ... but it is really optimal if you are running shuffling effect (fetch land, any tutor ...). If you are running a few or no one shuffling effect card, ponder could be much better. In your deck, you are running vial too : I guess you wont have too many mana problem. So in this case, ponder should be a better choice imho.
Take care, and waiting for the next exploration :)
Nice article..Nice top 8. I actually have been playing around with dreadnought in a merfolk for a bit..Its a nice little surprise :-P alot of people are noty expecting the big ugly to show its head
I would agree with you, Blighting is still underated either in 8-4 or 4322. Especially with domain becoming such a popular strategy. If I would run vs domains I would always sideboard them in.
Both me and TugaChampion are 8-4s regular but I'm with him when he says that COnflux has still many blank spaces to be filled and as I progress through them I'll be previewing 8-4s again.
Btw, the cat portrait is by my artist friend Lobsel Vith. Thanks Lobster! More of her art is at http://www.port-whore.deviantart.com/ if anyone's interested.
I know him IRL but I don't know what drafts he'll cover. My other draft was a 8-4 (still in AAA) and I have sent another 4-3-2-2 yesterday. I prefer playing 8-4 but it's just that 8-4 haven't been firing that much, at least when I'm on and 4-3-2-2 will help me get a better feeling of conflux. Also in the beta the AAC drafts were there not for very long so I didn't get to try it as much as I used too. IRL I have only drafted AAC once because we're in extended season.
But I'll try getting some 8-4 when I get the chance.
Your response was fairly reasonable from my view, yet I suggested to TheMiseDotCom that both of you are covering the same format and in all honesty Magic Online drafts should be very close to real life incidents hence why I disagree with 4-3-2-2 drafts in general. You 2 are just competing against one another rather than covering numerous options.
It defineatly wasn't meant to be a insult just a suggestion to my definition of a 4-3-2-2 draft is a draft that technically doesn't show anything to players who wish to learn about drafting. Regardless of you showing your videos to Portuguese players everyone still has different ways of playing any scenario. It's just the fact that TugaChampion as well as you are repeating articles based on the same format why not one cover 8-4 and one do 4-3-2-2?
btw rd 2 of classic, blue vs red tribes the answer is not obvious, i mean aparently you won since you took a loss later in the swiss but i have to feel like the red goblins is favored since they can just vomit out guys like you wouldnt believe. maybe the noughts helped you win?
very nice there steve, i have just finished getting mutas and the unc merfolk i need to build the blue menace and currently sower of temptation lives in my sb but they could just as eaisly come in for the noughts to help solve the agro race equation.
Dreadnought is a fantastic beatstick and will win the game , but isn't your most problematic card explosives? not only does nought die eaisly to this but you are getting rid of a very important stifle to just get your 1 mana win con exploded and now you cant even stifle the trigger just my thoughts.
Personally, I've been thinking about a Rosheen EDH deck. The cool part about EDH is that the very nature of the format allows you to tutor up Rosheen and bring her back over and over again if she keeps dying (at an increasing cost, of course).
I started working on a decklist. I recall having about 70 cards in the list, minus land, but I scrapped it after I realized that I didn't own a majority of the cards, and it turned out to be a quite a bit of money to spend on a casual deck I probably wouldn't play that often. Not to mention that figuring out what to cut from the deck would have been a pain.
It was definitely Runed Halo: Banefire, my mistake.
I apologize again for not including many test games for the second deck. I tried, man, I really did - I was in that stupid room for hours battling the lag (and losing).
i was thinking about to add some removal. If pongify, ovinize or snake form seem too weak & expansive to be relevant, maybe Psionic Blast could be interesting to try (x2 for example) : 4 damages is enough to burn many creature but it also could be a good way to finish your opponent if its control lock is being to be completed or if your creature could not attack for any reasons.
I am really not convinced for the moment because 3 CMC sounds as so slow compared to the card's effect, so maybe it is another useless idea...
Wow, you get 8 games with the first deck, a tournament report, and a third deck, and you aren't satisfied? Plus, if you've been on MTGO recently you would know about the horrible lag issues that were going on to keep games from firing. I think there was plenty in this article.
The Telepathy part was hilarious. It's not like you are physically putting your cards on the table like Magic: Pants. Easy mistake to make. Good article.
BTW this is TheBizzar online
Great artical. I was looking for a good list of Loom decks featuring Knight of the Reliquary. I scoured through the listings on DeckCheck and find myself close to fielding a solid loom deck in EXT also. Anyway, I don't care what anyone has to say, it is always good to read about your ideas and then apply them to my own decklists. It is what makes great teams of players. So, keep it up like I know you will and Ill see you online sometime in the near future.
Can we please have some actual testing? What was that?
Declaration of Nought on Banefire doesn't do a whole lot. Either you mixed up the halos and Declarations, or you should have won that game.
I meant Echoing Truth, NOT Chain of Vapor...
You are absolutely correct that Classic Merfolk has several fundamental problems, the most glaring of which is that it can't take out creatures. Some lists play Chain of Vapor main to give the deck SOME way to deal with cards on board, but for the most part if something resolves against Merfolk - it's sticking around. Adding Phyrexian Dreadnought does NOT solve this problem. If your opponent stick Tarmogoyf, then there is not a whole lot that you can do about it.
Phyrexian Dreadnought does help a lot in the aggro matchup. If you're playing against something like Zoo, Burn, or RDW - then an early Stifle+Dreadnought gives you a HUGE advantage. It's also somewhat of a surprise move against a lot of players, who will just not see it coming.
Your Stifle point is a good one, and it part of the reason why I would like to try this list with only two copies of Dreadnought. The bad news is that Dreadnought is dead without Stifle. The good news here is that Stifle fits right into your strategy - it denies your opponent mana (along with Wasteland, and probably Back to Basics once Urza's block comes online), stops troublesome threats like Engineered Explosives, etc. In my experience Stifle is rarely a dead card.
Running Trinket Mage to tutor for Dreadnought and awesome sideboard cards like Pithing Needle is a really interesting idea - I'll have to think about this one. I've also been wondering lately if this deck wants Chrome Mox...
that's absolutly true and this is a real good upgrade about that
Nought solves a big problem: The deck is pretty hard to beat aggro with. With him, you have a chance to kill RDW before they can kill you, outrace ZOO, etc.
yeah, ths article is nice.
Firstly because it explains very well tips and it shares interesting way of playing to players. Secondly because it covers all format that is really interesting to discover format we dont know well.
A great great job ! We need more article as yours.
i would have 2 comments but only about classic, because this is the format i know better than others.
About the Dreadfolk concept : well, it is good idea to mix these 2 strategies. I didnt test this deck for the moment however i played dreadstill and merfolk many times as well, but not toghether.
My first thinking is about the strategy : usualy, the dreadnought is used in decks which provides a strong defense, in order to kill the opponent in the fastest way is it possible to do. I mean in dreadstill, almost all others cards are counter, including all the countertop stuff : the dreadnought enters in the game to kill the opponent in 2 turns, supposing you countered all opponent's threat. It works well. But here, the merfolk archetype wont provide the same defense. It gives others but not as many counter as dreadstill. So it could be a danger (you would tell me, i am not sure) : usualy, the biggest weakness i identified in merfolk is the lack of hard removal (it remains based on an aggro philosophy : you dont remove, you have to overfill the board with creatures to flood your opponent) ... and dreadnoughts dont provide any removal. The seond weakness is the "creature win condition's dependance = you cannot win without providing damage with your creatures. Dreadnought is a huge threat but wont give any solution to you vs a moat or a recuring EE ... So finaly, dreadnought improves your creature power (a lot!) but wont solve natural weakness of the deck. That being said, it does not mean it is not efficient.
Still about strategy, the deck seems "under-tutorised". Usualy this is not a problem because you are running very solid draw engine (still, adept ...). But in an optimal tempo, dreadnought cannot be played alone = you need stifle. Then, tutors seem crazy useful to avoid keeping dreadnought as a deadcard in hand. Without any tutor to get stifle (mystical, scroll...) or to get Dreadnought (as could be trinket mage, enlighted ...), it could be risky and underoptimized. Here again, you would tell me.
A last word about the choice brainstorm/ponder. Basicaly, it strongly depends of the amount of fetch cards you are running. Brainstorm is much better in many case : to play it at instant quickness, to replace a deadcard, to avoid to discard a key card because of an early duress/seize ... but it is really optimal if you are running shuffling effect (fetch land, any tutor ...). If you are running a few or no one shuffling effect card, ponder could be much better. In your deck, you are running vial too : I guess you wont have too many mana problem. So in this case, ponder should be a better choice imho.
Take care, and waiting for the next exploration :)
Nice article..Nice top 8. I actually have been playing around with dreadnought in a merfolk for a bit..Its a nice little surprise :-P alot of people are noty expecting the big ugly to show its head
I would agree with you, Blighting is still underated either in 8-4 or 4322. Especially with domain becoming such a popular strategy. If I would run vs domains I would always sideboard them in.
Oh - my MTGO Username is Mattalic -_-
Both me and TugaChampion are 8-4s regular but I'm with him when he says that COnflux has still many blank spaces to be filled and as I progress through them I'll be previewing 8-4s again.
Btw, the cat portrait is by my artist friend Lobsel Vith. Thanks Lobster! More of her art is at http://www.port-whore.deviantart.com/ if anyone's interested.
I enjoyed it, but I think we need a list... :)
I know him IRL but I don't know what drafts he'll cover. My other draft was a 8-4 (still in AAA) and I have sent another 4-3-2-2 yesterday. I prefer playing 8-4 but it's just that 8-4 haven't been firing that much, at least when I'm on and 4-3-2-2 will help me get a better feeling of conflux. Also in the beta the AAC drafts were there not for very long so I didn't get to try it as much as I used too. IRL I have only drafted AAC once because we're in extended season.
But I'll try getting some 8-4 when I get the chance.
I actually don't like drafting 5c and try to avoid it unless I have no other options.
Hello,
Your response was fairly reasonable from my view, yet I suggested to TheMiseDotCom that both of you are covering the same format and in all honesty Magic Online drafts should be very close to real life incidents hence why I disagree with 4-3-2-2 drafts in general. You 2 are just competing against one another rather than covering numerous options.
Thanks
Hello,
It defineatly wasn't meant to be a insult just a suggestion to my definition of a 4-3-2-2 draft is a draft that technically doesn't show anything to players who wish to learn about drafting. Regardless of you showing your videos to Portuguese players everyone still has different ways of playing any scenario. It's just the fact that TugaChampion as well as you are repeating articles based on the same format why not one cover 8-4 and one do 4-3-2-2?
Thanks