I think restricting the 'proxy' events is the key. That way you can only play casual or pro-payouts (top-tier) constructed with cards that you actually own. Medium-tier constructed with crap prizes, who cares?
Less lucrative, yes. Less frequent? Proxy events would fire like pauper!
I tried to post this a couple articles ago, but a suggestion I have for your articles is to avoid the personal collection details. Adding a tidbit to the end about checking out to draft into dual lands is ok, but I don't care how many Pernicious Deeds and Forces you have. It makes the articles seem blog-like, which is off-putting. I want to read articles, not blogs. Even if it's opinion-based, the article format is what I come here for. Don't read this harshly, because I enjoy reading your articles quite a bit.
It seems that you could easily solve problems people have with cheapening their collections if a subscription service is instituted by limiting the proxy events to only players who have subscriptions. If you want to buy one, you can get your proxy decks and go at it. If you don't, you can't play. Those tourneys would be less frequent and less lucrative.
The first time I saw Magic Online I thought it was REALLY a virtual economy. No real cash flowing in: You pay 15$ per month and each time you win, you get virtual money to buy new packs and cards. That would've been nice.
While I disagree with the exact mechanics of your subscription service proposal, I think there are some good ideas there.
To Whiffy's point: I think Wizard's would take a revenue hit from a "subscription service", at least if it was only 19.99. The only problem is that if it were a lot higher than 19.99 than it would alienate too many players to make it viable.
Expanding on Erik's idea and ArchGenius's idea: Paper Vintage has 10 proxy tournaments, why can't magic online have them? Even if these tourney's were 1x prizes, and only 2 or 3 times a week, I think this would incent a lot of players to play them. This is a win/win for everyone involved:
Semi-Competetive but poor player: Now can afford to play his red deck wins deck he has wanted to play now that he doesn't have to shell out 128 tix for a playset of figures
Average Tourney Player: Can afford to play a few tourneys with different types of decks. Maybe that player has been playing faeries in every tournament he's entered since the release of morningtide because those are the cards he has, but maybe he's sick of faeries? Proxy some Reflecting Pools and some filter lands and bring a 5C Control deck on the cheap for one tourney!
Super Competetive Tourney Player: Doesn't want to bother with a 1x tourney anyway. Or, if he does, he can donk around with some random deck.
Classic Players: People seemed to be worried about their format dying. If there were 10 proxy classic tourneys, guess what? All of a sudden you don't have to shell out 500 bucks for duals and FoWs and you got yourselves a huge crowd of new players (that would be me btw)
Casual Player: Maybe he never wanted to play tourneys before... but hmmmm he can now build some awesome progentitus/dramatic entrance deck for about 2 dollars (after the ten proxies). Which leads me to...
Wizards: Huge win for them. There is a large untapped market of casual players that is currently play zero sanctioned events. But we all know that magic is like drugs, all it takes is one tourney and maybe that player is hooked. Now that player starts drafting more to get more cards and playing 8 man queues to get better, and maybe he starts entering the zero proxy tourneys...
I think this method still achieves a lot of the benefits that Erik suggested. What do you guys think?
What happened to Nactal War-Pride. The card from future Sight. Isn't this the set it should be coming out in? Makes me think that a lot of Futuresight cards are not going to get reprinted.
Your subscription proposal is very similar to an idea I floated on the Wizards message boards a while ago for proxy tournaments, which included giving out proxy cards that can be traded or used as a proxy deck for one tournament. My idea was both praised and bashed, and I think this will probably be received in the same light.
It seems to me that the players out there with really large collections are VERY protective of them. Many would rather see formats die because of a lack of players than even consider the idea that a player could enter one of their tournaments without owning all of the cards in their decks. Some players just want to feel that their larger collections entitle them to a superior deck in all circumstances. It's really hard to get around this feeling and enable newer players to join constructed formats. Pauper is the best attempt at introducing new players to constructed tournaments to date, but even with pauper, the prices of cards are steadily rising out of some people's budget.
As with what was previously stated, I think there needs to be a way to limit which tournaments a subscription player enters if only to keep the die-hards happy. I'm not sure Thursdays would work because I can't imagine a new player paying for a subscription to Magic Online that can only be used on Thursdays. I think it might work for subscription players to enter the equivalent of 1x(prize) tournaments or 2x(prize) tournaments, and save the 3x and 4x for the more dedicated players with the big collections.
I fully endorse the idea of a subscription service or some similar way to get new players interested in constructed tournaments. (I'm not sure how viable it is for sealed/draft tournaments because you don't need to have a collection to enter them anyway) Still, it's a good idea that will probably never see the light of day because it carries a good degree of backlash with it.
True. I have high hopes for the set, being as they like to push the envelope when it comes gold cards like these. I actually expect some very very very strong cards to come out of ARB.
In fact, I'd be willing to be that one or many cards remove themselves from the game (like unearth), which would explain why Glittering Wish got the axe...
You guys are missing a very important point. Kaleidoscope is coming! That's a format for gold cards only. And Alara Reborn ON ITS OWN is giving the format another 145 cards. That's huge!
I believe that as long as Alara Reborn remains in Extended, the set and its cards will be a staple for the format for years to come. Just my thoughts.
.. and I am looking forward to it... but it hasn't really captivated my attention. Yet.
As others have mentioned "ALL GOLD!" doesn't really have the same amazement factor as it would have, say, before Ravnica, and shadowmoor, and Alara, and Conflux....
Also, my enthusiasm for any new set is always hampered by the knowledge that we are not going to get the set until about one month after the paper hype hits critical mass. That month is torturous for MTGO-only players as there's so little to do and work on. :(
But of course, once the previews start flowing I'll be hyping it like crazy... just like I always do. :)
Used to be in the old days of magic gold cards were not around at all in blocks, and now it seems gold is the new color of magic. I'm not excited about Alara Reborn because I think the concept missed. Had they limited gold cards in the two previous sets of the block, and the rest of standard really, it would be a lot more exciting I think
as always fantastic and a heavy debate topic indeed for subscriptions
i for one would be super heated if they implamentd a subcription base and im sure that the vast majority would be as well.
whats the point of buying cards if you can play whatever you want, even if its just a few tournys a month.
lets say you are allowed 3 drafts 2 sealeds and 2 pe's a month for your 19.99 subscription.
right there wotc gains the subscription and 22 dollars a month in the tix people need to buy to play the events for a total of about 40 dollars. what do they lose?
29 paks in lost sales since there free ='s about 120 dollars so there actually down by a good 80 dollars a month per player compounded by the amount of subscribers i dont think this is sound when compared to the influx of new players paying 40 dollars a month to play for "Free". After that you get your people who are good enough to go infinate and all of a sudden your only getting 19.99 a month from these players losing 100 dollars in revanue. No in my mind this is not even an option especially with the econnmic crunch the states are currently in.
From a players persepctive i for one am all for people getting to play magic and think the price of fow and duals are rediculos but that dosent mean you should be able to rent what ever you want for 20 bucks a month. there would have to be some heavy restrictions for subscribers to keep mtgo form folding when players like myself would most likely liquidate there collection and leave the game for paper magic.
I don't know how other people feel about this, but gold cards used to get me so excited... but by this point Wizards has just railroaded this concept into the ground. Gold cards aren't special to me AT ALL anymore - they're just another card.
I think that the next set, which will be the first all-gold set of Magic, should get some mentioning at the very least. I am definately very excited about it. Is it only me? I'm not following the official boards and therefore asking; is nobody talking about this? No speculations? Nothing?
thank for this second part. Interesting to note that, except goblin where the lack of lackey is a big weakness, all these decks could be tried in our current classic mtgo meta, assuming some minor changes.
I really like the blue aggro one.
nice ness exlempfied.
2 things
classic goblins run clamp cause its so good and i bet legacy would too.
imperial painter has won 2 pe's and top 4ed another 2. epic painter won 1 pe and top 4ed a second. so its goodenough now it just depends on your match ups. ie rdw is awful to see.
I am so used to read good things in State of the program...that i forgot all time to congrat you about it.
Just a comment about demonic Tutor : i also really appreciated pre-release restriction. It has been made for the game, not only for the business (unless if there is also a x1 Unmask in each box).That's great.
Subscription based MTGO is a moot point because they couldn't change now if they wanted to.
They *could* introduce some sort of hybrid system. I think how successful and how well its received is totally dependent on its implementation. The number of events, the cost of the events, and the prizes would dictate how successful it is.
One option would be to hold a monthly tournament where you don't have to own the cards. I question whether the system could handle the load from the amount of players such a tournament would draw.
Another option would be Thursday night MTGO, which could compliment Friday Night Magic. You promote the ability to log in to MTGO on Thursdays and play constructed queues without having the cards. I think both MTGO and FNM would benefit from each other by doing this. You come up with your crazy deck and play it on Thursday night. Then you are all excited about it and trade for the cards on Friday at your local shop. It seems compelling to me.
One way to promote this without angering your established player base would be to only charge an entry fee if you do not own all the cards. This way, Thursday Night Magic would be welcomed by MTGO only players as well because they can play tournaments for prizes without entry fees.
Of course, WotC would have to be convinced that the revenue they are losing by doing this is worth it in the marketing goodwill they are gaining. Research would need to be done.
Yeah, that was just a stupid joke about blue being so good...
In reality, Goblins is definitely a tough matchup. In game one they usually can't do anything at all against a resolved Dreadnought - so that's the strongest play that Merfolk has. Some decks run Goblin Tinkerer or Stingscourger main, but that's pretty much the only thing that can deal with the 12/12.
After thinking about it more, and discussion on classicquarter, I'm pretty sure that there should be Chills in the sideboard instead of Hydroblast. The three most dangerous threats coming out of Goblins are:
- Aether Vial. Blanks your counterspells, Merfolk can't deal with anything on the board, and turns Goblins into a better deck under Standstill then you are. Do not let this card resolve.
- Goblin Piledriver. Protection from your entire deck. Races faster than your deck could ever really hope to without Phyrexian Dreadnought.
- Seige Gang Commander. Turns up the clock a LOT, takes out any of your threats pretty easily and destroys your Merfolk synergy.
Step one of the plan to beating Goblins is definitely to not let Aether Vial resolve under any circumstances. If you're able to do this and then get Chill into play, then the matchup swings ridiculously into your favor.
If you can't take care of the Vial, then you are just in huge trouble. I have a tough time envisioning this deck beating Goblins with Aether Vial on the table. I guess that's an argument for more Echoing Truth? At least in this matchup.
Maybe I should write a primer on this deck, I think I understand the fundamentals of the matchups pretty well.
I beg to differ on Painter's Servant/Grindstone being not ready for prime time in Legacy or Classic. Reuben Bresler placed 34th in the main event with the deck (list here, A-F section: http://www.thestarkingtonpost.com/?p=463 ) and the deck is way fun to play and watch (Coverage of a match between Bresler and Kowal here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcove... )
That said, Gamble is a lot of what carried Bresler. And that is not going to be out on MO until Urza's Saga. :-/
I think restricting the 'proxy' events is the key. That way you can only play casual or pro-payouts (top-tier) constructed with cards that you actually own. Medium-tier constructed with crap prizes, who cares?
Less lucrative, yes. Less frequent? Proxy events would fire like pauper!
Oh there was more to the article? :P
Definitely man, let's do it. I have just about every deck too - so let me know if you ever want to test something.
Another article full of good information.
I tried to post this a couple articles ago, but a suggestion I have for your articles is to avoid the personal collection details. Adding a tidbit to the end about checking out to draft into dual lands is ok, but I don't care how many Pernicious Deeds and Forces you have. It makes the articles seem blog-like, which is off-putting. I want to read articles, not blogs. Even if it's opinion-based, the article format is what I come here for. Don't read this harshly, because I enjoy reading your articles quite a bit.
It seems that you could easily solve problems people have with cheapening their collections if a subscription service is instituted by limiting the proxy events to only players who have subscriptions. If you want to buy one, you can get your proxy decks and go at it. If you don't, you can't play. Those tourneys would be less frequent and less lucrative.
The first time I saw Magic Online I thought it was REALLY a virtual economy. No real cash flowing in: You pay 15$ per month and each time you win, you get virtual money to buy new packs and cards. That would've been nice.
It's too late now anyway...
While I disagree with the exact mechanics of your subscription service proposal, I think there are some good ideas there.
To Whiffy's point: I think Wizard's would take a revenue hit from a "subscription service", at least if it was only 19.99. The only problem is that if it were a lot higher than 19.99 than it would alienate too many players to make it viable.
Expanding on Erik's idea and ArchGenius's idea: Paper Vintage has 10 proxy tournaments, why can't magic online have them? Even if these tourney's were 1x prizes, and only 2 or 3 times a week, I think this would incent a lot of players to play them. This is a win/win for everyone involved:
Semi-Competetive but poor player: Now can afford to play his red deck wins deck he has wanted to play now that he doesn't have to shell out 128 tix for a playset of figures
Average Tourney Player: Can afford to play a few tourneys with different types of decks. Maybe that player has been playing faeries in every tournament he's entered since the release of morningtide because those are the cards he has, but maybe he's sick of faeries? Proxy some Reflecting Pools and some filter lands and bring a 5C Control deck on the cheap for one tourney!
Super Competetive Tourney Player: Doesn't want to bother with a 1x tourney anyway. Or, if he does, he can donk around with some random deck.
Classic Players: People seemed to be worried about their format dying. If there were 10 proxy classic tourneys, guess what? All of a sudden you don't have to shell out 500 bucks for duals and FoWs and you got yourselves a huge crowd of new players (that would be me btw)
Casual Player: Maybe he never wanted to play tourneys before... but hmmmm he can now build some awesome progentitus/dramatic entrance deck for about 2 dollars (after the ten proxies). Which leads me to...
Wizards: Huge win for them. There is a large untapped market of casual players that is currently play zero sanctioned events. But we all know that magic is like drugs, all it takes is one tourney and maybe that player is hooked. Now that player starts drafting more to get more cards and playing 8 man queues to get better, and maybe he starts entering the zero proxy tourneys...
I think this method still achieves a lot of the benefits that Erik suggested. What do you guys think?
What happened to Nactal War-Pride. The card from future Sight. Isn't this the set it should be coming out in? Makes me think that a lot of Futuresight cards are not going to get reprinted.
As always, I've enjoyed reading your articles.
Your subscription proposal is very similar to an idea I floated on the Wizards message boards a while ago for proxy tournaments, which included giving out proxy cards that can be traded or used as a proxy deck for one tournament. My idea was both praised and bashed, and I think this will probably be received in the same light.
It seems to me that the players out there with really large collections are VERY protective of them. Many would rather see formats die because of a lack of players than even consider the idea that a player could enter one of their tournaments without owning all of the cards in their decks. Some players just want to feel that their larger collections entitle them to a superior deck in all circumstances. It's really hard to get around this feeling and enable newer players to join constructed formats. Pauper is the best attempt at introducing new players to constructed tournaments to date, but even with pauper, the prices of cards are steadily rising out of some people's budget.
As with what was previously stated, I think there needs to be a way to limit which tournaments a subscription player enters if only to keep the die-hards happy. I'm not sure Thursdays would work because I can't imagine a new player paying for a subscription to Magic Online that can only be used on Thursdays. I think it might work for subscription players to enter the equivalent of 1x(prize) tournaments or 2x(prize) tournaments, and save the 3x and 4x for the more dedicated players with the big collections.
I fully endorse the idea of a subscription service or some similar way to get new players interested in constructed tournaments. (I'm not sure how viable it is for sealed/draft tournaments because you don't need to have a collection to enter them anyway) Still, it's a good idea that will probably never see the light of day because it carries a good degree of backlash with it.
True. I have high hopes for the set, being as they like to push the envelope when it comes gold cards like these. I actually expect some very very very strong cards to come out of ARB.
In fact, I'd be willing to be that one or many cards remove themselves from the game (like unearth), which would explain why Glittering Wish got the axe...
I am fearing playing foil cards with my non-foil collection.
Heh ... think Wizards will unfoil my From The Vault: tEH BrokEzoRs cOlleEctIon for me?
You guys are missing a very important point. Kaleidoscope is coming! That's a format for gold cards only. And Alara Reborn ON ITS OWN is giving the format another 145 cards. That's huge!
I believe that as long as Alara Reborn remains in Extended, the set and its cards will be a staple for the format for years to come. Just my thoughts.
LE
.. and I am looking forward to it... but it hasn't really captivated my attention. Yet.
As others have mentioned "ALL GOLD!" doesn't really have the same amazement factor as it would have, say, before Ravnica, and shadowmoor, and Alara, and Conflux....
Also, my enthusiasm for any new set is always hampered by the knowledge that we are not going to get the set until about one month after the paper hype hits critical mass. That month is torturous for MTGO-only players as there's so little to do and work on. :(
But of course, once the previews start flowing I'll be hyping it like crazy... just like I always do. :)
Used to be in the old days of magic gold cards were not around at all in blocks, and now it seems gold is the new color of magic. I'm not excited about Alara Reborn because I think the concept missed. Had they limited gold cards in the two previous sets of the block, and the rest of standard really, it would be a lot more exciting I think
as always fantastic and a heavy debate topic indeed for subscriptions
i for one would be super heated if they implamentd a subcription base and im sure that the vast majority would be as well.
whats the point of buying cards if you can play whatever you want, even if its just a few tournys a month.
lets say you are allowed 3 drafts 2 sealeds and 2 pe's a month for your 19.99 subscription.
right there wotc gains the subscription and 22 dollars a month in the tix people need to buy to play the events for a total of about 40 dollars. what do they lose?
29 paks in lost sales since there free ='s about 120 dollars so there actually down by a good 80 dollars a month per player compounded by the amount of subscribers i dont think this is sound when compared to the influx of new players paying 40 dollars a month to play for "Free". After that you get your people who are good enough to go infinate and all of a sudden your only getting 19.99 a month from these players losing 100 dollars in revanue. No in my mind this is not even an option especially with the econnmic crunch the states are currently in.
From a players persepctive i for one am all for people getting to play magic and think the price of fow and duals are rediculos but that dosent mean you should be able to rent what ever you want for 20 bucks a month. there would have to be some heavy restrictions for subscribers to keep mtgo form folding when players like myself would most likely liquidate there collection and leave the game for paper magic.
just my thoughts
whiff outskis
I don't know how other people feel about this, but gold cards used to get me so excited... but by this point Wizards has just railroaded this concept into the ground. Gold cards aren't special to me AT ALL anymore - they're just another card.
I think that the next set, which will be the first all-gold set of Magic, should get some mentioning at the very least. I am definately very excited about it. Is it only me? I'm not following the official boards and therefore asking; is nobody talking about this? No speculations? Nothing?
thank for this second part. Interesting to note that, except goblin where the lack of lackey is a big weakness, all these decks could be tried in our current classic mtgo meta, assuming some minor changes.
I really like the blue aggro one.
nice ness exlempfied.
2 things
classic goblins run clamp cause its so good and i bet legacy would too.
imperial painter has won 2 pe's and top 4ed another 2. epic painter won 1 pe and top 4ed a second. so its goodenough now it just depends on your match ups. ie rdw is awful to see.
I love the Thursday Night Magic idea.
I am so used to read good things in State of the program...that i forgot all time to congrat you about it.
Just a comment about demonic Tutor : i also really appreciated pre-release restriction. It has been made for the game, not only for the business (unless if there is also a x1 Unmask in each box).That's great.
Subscription based MTGO is a moot point because they couldn't change now if they wanted to.
They *could* introduce some sort of hybrid system. I think how successful and how well its received is totally dependent on its implementation. The number of events, the cost of the events, and the prizes would dictate how successful it is.
One option would be to hold a monthly tournament where you don't have to own the cards. I question whether the system could handle the load from the amount of players such a tournament would draw.
Another option would be Thursday night MTGO, which could compliment Friday Night Magic. You promote the ability to log in to MTGO on Thursdays and play constructed queues without having the cards. I think both MTGO and FNM would benefit from each other by doing this. You come up with your crazy deck and play it on Thursday night. Then you are all excited about it and trade for the cards on Friday at your local shop. It seems compelling to me.
One way to promote this without angering your established player base would be to only charge an entry fee if you do not own all the cards. This way, Thursday Night Magic would be welcomed by MTGO only players as well because they can play tournaments for prizes without entry fees.
Of course, WotC would have to be convinced that the revenue they are losing by doing this is worth it in the marketing goodwill they are gaining. Research would need to be done.
Last and I am surely least but I have to toss my 2 cents in on this deck naming.
Wurm Harvest
or
Bring Out Your Dead- A little Monty Python reference. Anyway congrates to the winner.
if your serious hit me up and we can do all the testing you want i have just about every deck you will see in a pe.
Yeah, that was just a stupid joke about blue being so good...
In reality, Goblins is definitely a tough matchup. In game one they usually can't do anything at all against a resolved Dreadnought - so that's the strongest play that Merfolk has. Some decks run Goblin Tinkerer or Stingscourger main, but that's pretty much the only thing that can deal with the 12/12.
After thinking about it more, and discussion on classicquarter, I'm pretty sure that there should be Chills in the sideboard instead of Hydroblast. The three most dangerous threats coming out of Goblins are:
- Aether Vial. Blanks your counterspells, Merfolk can't deal with anything on the board, and turns Goblins into a better deck under Standstill then you are. Do not let this card resolve.
- Goblin Piledriver. Protection from your entire deck. Races faster than your deck could ever really hope to without Phyrexian Dreadnought.
- Seige Gang Commander. Turns up the clock a LOT, takes out any of your threats pretty easily and destroys your Merfolk synergy.
Step one of the plan to beating Goblins is definitely to not let Aether Vial resolve under any circumstances. If you're able to do this and then get Chill into play, then the matchup swings ridiculously into your favor.
If you can't take care of the Vial, then you are just in huge trouble. I have a tough time envisioning this deck beating Goblins with Aether Vial on the table. I guess that's an argument for more Echoing Truth? At least in this matchup.
Maybe I should write a primer on this deck, I think I understand the fundamentals of the matchups pretty well.