If the life totals were low enough so that aggro decks could compete, than Ancientry Tomb would not be so bad.
Being a partner is what really pushes Vial Smasher over the top. If WotC was looking at more radical solutions, since banned as commander doesn't seem to be an option, I would suggest updating the card so it no longer has partner. That change would only change the card in commander formats and it would play the same everywhere else. And if that works, I would even consider adding partner to a number of existing middle power level legends in order to expand the playable options.
You treat many draw spells in a different way so I'm not really sure what you mean with this. But I'd say no because it requires more building around than other spells. You need to support it and take advantage of it and then it becomes broken.
Homebrewing winning decks is always hard. Hence the term "rogue" to romanticize it because it IS unusual for a homebrew to win. PO Homebrews seem much harder than other decks. That said I understand what you mean about being able to play it in a wide variety of deck types. The question is: Does it work if you just treat it as you would any draw spell?
Not easy to homebrew? You can play anything with that card! Or rather the card doesn't limit you that much as Thoughtcast/Thirst for Knowledge does. This simply needs nonland permanents which you need to be able to cast.
PO decks are complex to play, that's true. But how complex, that's another question...a game can go awry very fast in Vintage no matter what you play.
The problem I have with PO decks is they seem ultra complex to play. One wrong play and it is over for me. Also not a card that is easy to home brew with.
Tocasia, Urza and Mishra were Argivian archaeologists, since being one involved digging up old Thran machines and tinkering with them to find out how they worked. Archaeology that seeks to replicate the inventions of the past definitely comes under artifice.
Nim abomination still pings you if you choose to chump block, since your opponent's attack occurs after you end your turn with it untapped.
My guess is the next thing is similar to the core set. Duels was an entry-level platform, and MTGO is an advanced platform. There was no intermediate platform. My guess is the next platform will incorporate the entry aspect of Duels while also providing a middle ground.
MTGO is still a significant source of revenue for Wizards. It is not going away anytime soon.
Regarding the Bogles matchup, Serene Heart is almost as backbreaking as Standard Bearer and provides a great answer at every stage of the match (although it's less flexible overall against the field, and thus the players who choose to run it only include the Heart as a 1-of and no doubt this is why you didn't mention it in your list).
Aura Flux is a weapon which the blue players have access to which is also powerful against Bogles but useless against everyone else (and be wary - it only slows the Bogles player down; I have won through Fluxes before).
Ray of Revelation and to a lesser extent Gleeful Sabotage are also very effective against Bogles because there are often only 2 backbreaking auras on the field.
The problem is that if you ban some generals there will be others that will become the oppressors. For example if you ban Breya, Vial Smasher people will play Baral and Titania since these work as opposition to each other and are good against the rest of the field where Tasigur has also a special place because it can fight more or less anything.
I hope people won't run away in the meantime from EDH but I honestly think the format needs a little bit of time. I'd ban fast mana for example (few days ago) but wouldn't ban any of the Legendary creatures. We need to see if by a chance there still isn't a possibility how to fight this silly Goblin or a 4/4 body that brings some thopters and can play the most annoying combos out there. We may end up finding out that there is no way how to keep these in check but I think people didn't explore the format to its fullest yet. (we need more players to explore, not be content with Vial Smasher and co)
I was very afraid that Vial Smasher would be oppressive from week 1 and expected more Barals and Titanias but the metagame evolved differently. I would actually be glad if we as players found a way how to fight all these decks and create some kind of balance rather than wait for another batch of bans. I think that some bans will be necessary but we should be given enough time to explore all the overpowered cards, which means suffer them for a while.
We shouldn't end up playing Boil or Carpet of Flower but rather try to attack these decks with something new and unexplored. There are some decks or generals that people didn't have the time to explore.
Lee Sharpe: "Ah. While them being too strong was motivation for their being banned, we aren't doing "banned as Commander only". It's either legal or not."
btw. If I were to play Storm I'd play Tasigur (since that card works as a tutor/draw your whole library) or Oloro (life gain).
Well said and I mostly agree just from watching you churn out the stats for each league. But I wonder if WOTC is capable of doing "Banned as commander" without breaking the format on the client in a not-so-good way? I mean I am sure the technical know-how is out there but is the will really there?
Also maybe they like it like this. There has to be a "bad boy" right? Maybe 1v1 is it. (Or maybe it is Dawts, but I kid. :D)
Also leave my beloved Tasigur alone, just because some fools can't refrain from breaking him in half, doesn't mean us casual types can't enjoy his cool suave ways and awesome special abilities.
I dabbled in 1v1 Commander for one league. I used the mono-red deck with blood moons. After 1 league I knew unless I wanted to invest the 700 tix to get one of the blue commanders (which are sweet but boring) that this is not for me. I play storm in paper in EDH and I still think it's obnoxious. I only play it in tournaments and it's not for me on MODO.
yeah, I think we all came to the conclusion that WotC is indeed developping something (that something we started calling MDN till wotc came and told us what that means). we just have no idea what that is. but judging from what they were showing at the investor's fair I'd say it has to be something that all magic players can play. those that like casual play and those that want to be pros. and they also stated that they want magic to become an esport.
duels players actually care about the sets and stuff. it changes the metagame and it gives them the reason to continue playing. they want new content. the updates are crucial. they were looking forward to HOU.
when duels was introduced they claimed it would still exist five years from origins...this was unexpected.
Magic Digital Next is not a new platform/client. It is just an umbrella term for all their digital offerings.
I am truly puzzled though. Based on their announcements, it seems that Magic Online will stay online in a similar form to what we know it for many years to come. But this can't be all they're working on, they must be working on something new, because what else would this new team they hired do with all of their time? And I find it hard to accept that they're just working on designing/building Version 5 already. Hope another announcement soon...
Regarding not updating Duels, I bet that WotC are doing this because the main purpose of Duels is an entry-level platform. A way to get into the game, leading later to either paper or MTGO. New players will always be able to get started perfectly well with any of the Duels - the fact that it's not up to date is not crucial for those players. And WotC get an extra bonus: The more Duels they make each year, the more people that will be online at any given time in any of the preceeding Duels, so beginners will always find other people to play online.
That's how I see it at least, I could be very wrong.
"Wizards has announced that it is not going to update Duels with new cards starting next year. This is probably good news for MTGO itself. Wizards seemed to have one too many digital offerings in the pipeline: MTGO, Duels and Magic Digital Next. I assumed that evolving both MTGO and Duels into Magic Digital Next was not feasible, since players have different collections on each platform. Phasing out Duels should mean that Magic Digital Next will incorporate MTGO, including MTGO collections. At least, I hope so. I have spent a lot on MTGO over the years – I’d like to keep that investment."
Why you'd think so? I personally think that WotC won't do any kind of transition from MODO to the new platform. I rather see the new platform to be a hybrid of Magic Duels and something new (cards seem to be scripted in similar fashion) where everyone starts from 0 (and yeah WotC is avoiding giving any kind of info...about an actual platform...so...). Sure this is just an opinion not really based on anything. It's just a feeling I have from WotC's annoucements and tweets. I'm not particularly happy about the discontinuation of Duels just like this. I'm not sure how many players will be able to transition to something else since there is MODO and paper and both are (at least here) very hard to transition too.
Can a player inform another player of what yet another player has in his deck when the second player is about to play the yet another player, or is this cheating ?
"Fellow Hamtastic Award winner AJ_Impy (both of them are already cleared a total 20 different tribes in 22 events!)" - Yeah, sorry about that, missed two weeks due to family commitments.
Gosh that would be a nice solution, but it has the issue of confusing players cards that get effected maybe?
I could see it happening if MTGO was it's own digital space, but with the paper side of things it would hold it back.
And you are correct, if the life totals were lower Ancient Tomb would not be an issue.
If the life totals were low enough so that aggro decks could compete, than Ancientry Tomb would not be so bad.
Being a partner is what really pushes Vial Smasher over the top. If WotC was looking at more radical solutions, since banned as commander doesn't seem to be an option, I would suggest updating the card so it no longer has partner. That change would only change the card in commander formats and it would play the same everywhere else. And if that works, I would even consider adding partner to a number of existing middle power level legends in order to expand the playable options.
I missed the lee comment. That bums we out kinda.
Also, I might be late to the event tomorrow. I'll register a deck in advance, but I may miss the round 1 cutoff.
I recognise that Myr deck! :D http://www.gatherling.com/deck.php?mode=view&id=45932 with the Pure-banned Eye of Ugin replaced with Inventor's Fair. It finished first back in March (http://puremtgo.com/articles/diaries-apocalypse-tribal-week-324), may it bring you the same next time, BoozeMongoose.
You treat many draw spells in a different way so I'm not really sure what you mean with this. But I'd say no because it requires more building around than other spells. You need to support it and take advantage of it and then it becomes broken.
Homebrewing winning decks is always hard. Hence the term "rogue" to romanticize it because it IS unusual for a homebrew to win. PO Homebrews seem much harder than other decks. That said I understand what you mean about being able to play it in a wide variety of deck types. The question is: Does it work if you just treat it as you would any draw spell?
Not easy to homebrew? You can play anything with that card! Or rather the card doesn't limit you that much as Thoughtcast/Thirst for Knowledge does. This simply needs nonland permanents which you need to be able to cast.
PO decks are complex to play, that's true. But how complex, that's another question...a game can go awry very fast in Vintage no matter what you play.
The problem I have with PO decks is they seem ultra complex to play. One wrong play and it is over for me. Also not a card that is easy to home brew with.
Tocasia, Urza and Mishra were Argivian archaeologists, since being one involved digging up old Thran machines and tinkering with them to find out how they worked. Archaeology that seeks to replicate the inventions of the past definitely comes under artifice.
Nim abomination still pings you if you choose to chump block, since your opponent's attack occurs after you end your turn with it untapped.
No problem man, I I keep trying different brews for standard but I go back to Temur.
Thanks for the shout out Eddie! Temur energy has been a ton of fun!
My guess is the next thing is similar to the core set. Duels was an entry-level platform, and MTGO is an advanced platform. There was no intermediate platform. My guess is the next platform will incorporate the entry aspect of Duels while also providing a middle ground.
MTGO is still a significant source of revenue for Wizards. It is not going away anytime soon.
Great article, thanks for posting.
Regarding the Bogles matchup, Serene Heart is almost as backbreaking as Standard Bearer and provides a great answer at every stage of the match (although it's less flexible overall against the field, and thus the players who choose to run it only include the Heart as a 1-of and no doubt this is why you didn't mention it in your list).
Aura Flux is a weapon which the blue players have access to which is also powerful against Bogles but useless against everyone else (and be wary - it only slows the Bogles player down; I have won through Fluxes before).
Ray of Revelation and to a lesser extent Gleeful Sabotage are also very effective against Bogles because there are often only 2 backbreaking auras on the field.
(Also we say Thorn of the Black Rose, not Throne.)
The problem is that if you ban some generals there will be others that will become the oppressors. For example if you ban Breya, Vial Smasher people will play Baral and Titania since these work as opposition to each other and are good against the rest of the field where Tasigur has also a special place because it can fight more or less anything.
I hope people won't run away in the meantime from EDH but I honestly think the format needs a little bit of time. I'd ban fast mana for example (few days ago) but wouldn't ban any of the Legendary creatures. We need to see if by a chance there still isn't a possibility how to fight this silly Goblin or a 4/4 body that brings some thopters and can play the most annoying combos out there. We may end up finding out that there is no way how to keep these in check but I think people didn't explore the format to its fullest yet. (we need more players to explore, not be content with Vial Smasher and co)
I was very afraid that Vial Smasher would be oppressive from week 1 and expected more Barals and Titanias but the metagame evolved differently. I would actually be glad if we as players found a way how to fight all these decks and create some kind of balance rather than wait for another batch of bans. I think that some bans will be necessary but we should be given enough time to explore all the overpowered cards, which means suffer them for a while.
We shouldn't end up playing Boil or Carpet of Flower but rather try to attack these decks with something new and unexplored. There are some decks or generals that people didn't have the time to explore.
Lee Sharpe: "Ah. While them being too strong was motivation for their being banned, we aren't doing "banned as Commander only". It's either legal or not."
btw. If I were to play Storm I'd play Tasigur (since that card works as a tutor/draw your whole library) or Oloro (life gain).
I do not paper 1v1, all of my experience is on MTGO, but I will light some people up with Storm in multiplayer games.
Me and Mizzix are best friends, and I feel real bad for leaving animar behind like I did.
I do not think that WotC was capable of doing that, which is why the paper EDH rules changed to no longer have a banned as commander list.
Sheldon of course says otherwise, so I'll defer to him, but please, allow me to keep my tin foil hat :D
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34751_What-If-Banned-As-A-Commander...
But one can see that Braids and the rest were banned when this was going on MTGO beta.
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17210
I think WotC is trying to keep this apart from Duel Commander, because this is a thing I can see them trying to support in paper next year.
Well said and I mostly agree just from watching you churn out the stats for each league. But I wonder if WOTC is capable of doing "Banned as commander" without breaking the format on the client in a not-so-good way? I mean I am sure the technical know-how is out there but is the will really there?
Also maybe they like it like this. There has to be a "bad boy" right? Maybe 1v1 is it. (Or maybe it is Dawts, but I kid. :D)
Also leave my beloved Tasigur alone, just because some fools can't refrain from breaking him in half, doesn't mean us casual types can't enjoy his cool suave ways and awesome special abilities.
I dabbled in 1v1 Commander for one league. I used the mono-red deck with blood moons. After 1 league I knew unless I wanted to invest the 700 tix to get one of the blue commanders (which are sweet but boring) that this is not for me. I play storm in paper in EDH and I still think it's obnoxious. I only play it in tournaments and it's not for me on MODO.
yeah, I think we all came to the conclusion that WotC is indeed developping something (that something we started calling MDN till wotc came and told us what that means). we just have no idea what that is. but judging from what they were showing at the investor's fair I'd say it has to be something that all magic players can play. those that like casual play and those that want to be pros. and they also stated that they want magic to become an esport.
duels players actually care about the sets and stuff. it changes the metagame and it gives them the reason to continue playing. they want new content. the updates are crucial. they were looking forward to HOU.
when duels was introduced they claimed it would still exist five years from origins...this was unexpected.
we'll see anyway.
Magic Digital Next is not a new platform/client. It is just an umbrella term for all their digital offerings.
I am truly puzzled though. Based on their announcements, it seems that Magic Online will stay online in a similar form to what we know it for many years to come. But this can't be all they're working on, they must be working on something new, because what else would this new team they hired do with all of their time? And I find it hard to accept that they're just working on designing/building Version 5 already. Hope another announcement soon...
Regarding not updating Duels, I bet that WotC are doing this because the main purpose of Duels is an entry-level platform. A way to get into the game, leading later to either paper or MTGO. New players will always be able to get started perfectly well with any of the Duels - the fact that it's not up to date is not crucial for those players. And WotC get an extra bonus: The more Duels they make each year, the more people that will be online at any given time in any of the preceeding Duels, so beginners will always find other people to play online.
That's how I see it at least, I could be very wrong.
"Wizards has announced that it is not going to update Duels with new cards starting next year. This is probably good news for MTGO itself. Wizards seemed to have one too many digital offerings in the pipeline: MTGO, Duels and Magic Digital Next. I assumed that evolving both MTGO and Duels into Magic Digital Next was not feasible, since players have different collections on each platform. Phasing out Duels should mean that Magic Digital Next will incorporate MTGO, including MTGO collections. At least, I hope so. I have spent a lot on MTGO over the years – I’d like to keep that investment."
Why you'd think so? I personally think that WotC won't do any kind of transition from MODO to the new platform. I rather see the new platform to be a hybrid of Magic Duels and something new (cards seem to be scripted in similar fashion) where everyone starts from 0 (and yeah WotC is avoiding giving any kind of info...about an actual platform...so...). Sure this is just an opinion not really based on anything. It's just a feeling I have from WotC's annoucements and tweets. I'm not particularly happy about the discontinuation of Duels just like this. I'm not sure how many players will be able to transition to something else since there is MODO and paper and both are (at least here) very hard to transition too.
Can a player inform another player of what yet another player has in his deck when the second player is about to play the yet another player, or is this cheating ?
"Fellow Hamtastic Award winner AJ_Impy (both of them are already cleared a total 20 different tribes in 22 events!)" - Yeah, sorry about that, missed two weeks due to family commitments.