Dark Depths was the hot card last night. Today the first attempt at answering it is
Ghost Quarter, and it will try to keep pace with the new
Dark Depths and
Vampire Hexmage combo decks.
I'll be surprised if Ghost Quarter will keep up with this deck as it can both play around it and recover from it.
Will Dark Depths be the Combo Elves of this season? I'll keep you posted!
7 Comments
Really? There are about a bajillion answers to Dark Depths, and the token it creates, and many of them are so ubiquitous. Echoing Truth much? Repeal, Trickbind, Sac effects, Bitterblossom Tokens... the list is endless.
If nobody is prepared for that, Extended is a joke.
There's multiple types of combo decks in a rather new format, there are going to be some that slip through the cracks.
For instance, Hypergenesis and Dredge are known entities and both need separate types of hate. Adding a third, non-related combo can create quite a stir, especially if people hadn't prepared for that.
It's not about being unprepared, it's about keeping up with a changing animal when you've only seen the tail of the animal. Turns out there are three other tails, four heads and three.five stomachs. ;)
I am going to take a risk here and say that Hexmage Dark Depths is NOT combo elves. Combo decks are some of my favorites and extended is my favorite format. This deck has none of the qualities that make combo decks wit tournaments in the format.
1 Resistance to counterspells
2 Draw that lets you see lots of your deck./tutor
3 Instant win
Furthermore even if you do combo your win con is easily taken care of by path and the like. Repeal was a good mention my dangerlinto although I am pretty sure that trickbind only delays it by a turn.(which should do nothing unless the counters were removed on the opponents turn)
I combo deck may be able to operate without one of these but almost certainly cannot be missing them all. I suppose some of these elements can be improved with the many other slots in the deck. Item 2 would probably be the easiest to solve and 1 would be the hardest.
To give the combo some credit it is a 2 card combo and would be an excellent alternate win con in a stand-alone deck. The problem is that no good deck exists that naturally wants to play either of these cards and I doubt that one will be made that will. To the forums!
Technically, Dark Depths is very resistant to counterspells. But I agree with you that the combo doesn't seem very resilient or tournament worthy. Marit Lage needs one of the following: shroud, haste, or trample.
However, Zendikar does have a spell which says "Raise Dead a creature and/or a land." Which is perfect for this deck. With that spell to answer your opponent's answer it could be a very strong casual deck. Maybe.
Oddly enough, I think this might be more viable for Classic. The random little flying chump blockers are less of a problem, you've got Dark Ritual, and you can protect Marit Lage with Force of Will. And access to awesome black tutors. I don't know if more viable is viable enough, I don't think so (what combo doesn't become more powerful with a tutor package?) but we'll see.
Couldn't the player run Lightning Greaves and Duress to ensure a more stable version? Yes it opens it up a bit but it seems like the deck already wants to be some kind of heavy black base and as you mention there is the dual use retrieval in Zen, plus a myriad of other methods. I guess the real question is: Would it be worth it? And could it be done quickly enough to merit (no pun intended) attention?
Imagine the following sequence for the win: Duress out creature removal, Damnation or Explosives for sweeping aside potential blockers, get Lightning Greaves out, play the hexmage or recur it somehow then equip the token and win?
==Edit==
Thats B + BB2 (or some amount higher for explosives) + 2 + BB ...is that even doable in any tourney setting? with triple dark ritual maybe. (thats 10 cards by my count. Its probably not even doable with the nuts draw. Of course if the op has no way to stop it then you don't need the damnation or explosives. Which takes out a card and 4 mana+.
most builds are running some combination of duress and thoughtseize possibly up to the full 8 copies. They had a deck tech list, and they run chalices set to one and two to avoid repeals, and other tactics. The run some counters themselves as well i believe. The most talked about version is u/b
Sure you can run all sorts of things to help its weaknesses but every card only helps one aspect and adds more cards to the combo. Sure lightning greaves will let you attack the turn you combo but it wont save you from the in hand path.
Duress and thoughtsieze are great additions for the deck as well as chalice I am just not sure they make up for the decks inherent weaknesses.
The "nut draw" for the deck results in a turn 3 win if they don't have path, repeal, ghost, quarters, fliers, counters, bitterblossom etc and requires 3 specific cards to pull off. How many successful combo decks have been so disruptable, so inconsistent, and so average speed-wise.
Elves could turn 2 under counter wall but had a consistent turn 3 and didn't need to use the combat step. TEPS had a very consistent turn 4 that could only be stopped by comparatively specific hate(which remand sometimes prevented)
That was my take on it when I learned of the combo previously. Of course we have recently learned that several pros took this deck seriously and tried to innovate around its weaknesses. I certainly admire this and applaud them. I am curious if time will see this turn into a good deck after all. My original skepticism toward the deck is because a turn 3 win certainly isn't crazy and the number of cards that prevent this are numerous. In the end the combo/control direction taken by some players is probably the way to go and may be decent given the right control elements.