I completely agree it is more often correct. I've won far more games because I attacked THEN played...but boy howdy do those games I've lost taste awfully sour because I auto-piloted away the correct play.
Bog is okay, don't get me wrong, but as others have pointed out Dredge can win through a graveyard-clearing effect with remarkable ease sometimes. It's not uncommon for a Dredge game to go T1 Bazaar, T2 kill you -- how does Bog help in that sort of scenario? Leyline does get bounced, for sure, but it's a true shutdown until they can bounce it, and much better IMHO than a one-shot graveyard-clearing effect. Bog isn't functionally any better vs. Dredge than Tormod's Crypt is and I haven't really seen that showing up in peoples' sideboards in a while.
Thanks, yeah it's all relative...but mostly, attacking THEN casting is correct...I'd venture to say about 70% of the time...just be aware of the muscle memory :) whichever you need to do or/arn't!
I don't understand how you can make such a big deal about practice making permanent and then give a bad play tip like "attack... THEN play." I'm a horrible player and I know this because I have lost more games than I care to admit because I attacked and then made my play for the turn. So many games I could have won if I had cast my creature with exalted before attacking. The same goes for all the times I had a combat trick but didn't have enough mana to play my instant and pay the 3 for Mana Leak with an unplayed land in my hand. I've got plenty more examples, but you get the idea. I practiced attacking and then making my play when I should have practiced thinking about the boardstate and then making my play.
I enjoyed the article on the whole and there are some great tips in here. I'll go one further on the matching art and just remind players if they have changed the jpg files on their pc that doesn't affect what your opponent sees.
This is a massive problem I have with the client...cards like Cone of Flame need to be clear in what is being targeted for which part of the effect (unless I haven't been paying attention and this was recently addressed).
In my mind, the whole idea of having a Felidar sovereign deck is playing a deck winning by gaining life rather than causing damage to an opponent with creatures. Using this whole different approach is what would have made this deck really original and challenging. For all practical purposes removing Felidar sovereign completely from the deck would have made very little difference most of the time. All but one of your victories were made without it anyway. Only ten cards in the entire deck are related to gaining life.
Also, I believe Standard is a poor choice of format for such a theme. It is already difficult enough to create such an exotic deck with a minuscule budget without further limiting the number of cards available. Extended would have been a much better choice.
Don't get me wrong it is a good deck, but it is a deck that contains Felidar sovereign, not a deck based on felidar Sovereign.
Where are the cards like, for example: Dawglow infusion, Goldenglow Moth, Angel's feather, Boon reflection, reviving dose, hallow or Wall of reverence.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Apocalypse. Eleven mana doesn't seem unreasonable when compared to the nine mana that made Mr. Teeth so popular. And that's just if you want to do it the straight forward way...without funny tricks like Oblivion Ring.
The bog is good even at sorcery speed. Any GY hate alone will not win by itself, but in conjunction with Bog you now have a sure fire way to clear the yard.
They-dredge- can bounce your hate then therapy it away or needle it or destroy it.
It is something that can be maindecked is never a dead card at worst it is a citbt. Sorcery speed and a land drop are hinderances, small drawbacks for uncounterable-save stifle- undiscardable hate card that only takes 3-4 land slots. what else are you going to cast vs Dredge anyway?
Thanks for writing this article. Publishing this article simultaneously with the release events is tremendous. WotC should be doing this themselves because this is the type of article that will drive more people to play in the events.
I appreciate hearing from readers and I'm certainly open to suggestions on both style and content.
I do think 17 lands is enough, but that based on the multi-kicker element. I, too, drafted last night and found the multi-kicker creatures seem to be drafted pretty highly and I did not have as many of them in my final card pool as I expected. If there are more 'fixed-cost cards' 17 lands might not be a solid assumption.
I am planning on writing a follow-up column half way through the release window to examine 'cards that impressed' and 'cards that disappointed' and what seemed to be getting undervalued during the card choice process.
I've won with Barren Glory, going down the obliterate/decree route. Another good way to clear the board is natural affinity and Kindle the carnage, which should kill all creatures and all lands whilst emptying your hand.
People have offered solutions in the form of new formats, but not in the style of changes to the B&R list. People are now complaining that th B&R list changes didn't fix the format. You see the difference?
i had 3x arbor elf and 2x chalice and ran with 16 lands to the finals last nite. i think this is however a 17 land format depending on how high ur curve is
I did want to stay in the cards format so Barren Glory would be EXT.
I wanted to keep the deck on a rough budget so WoG is out Isochron Scepter is a possibility I hadnt realised how low the price was for the card.
One With Nothing is a good idea and Greater Gargadon I think should have been included as its a great card to sacrifice to.
I think Barren Glory is the hardest "You win the game" card that I've had to build round yet. If you include creatures you always seem to end up going down the beat down route as its usually too risky late in the game to risk sacrificing everything to try and win next turn via Barren Glory. There's so many aggro and bounce cards around, just one (Into the Roil) and its game over.
Indeed, one reason I like playing with Gemstone Caverns if the deck will allow it...even high 1700 rated players screw that one up....another muscle memory error that often happens online!
sorry, I wasn't logged in for the above comment...
@Paul - I'll take any advantage I can get. I'm not going to go and setup a mirror behind you ...lol...but if someone is being absent minded, I will capatalize on it. I've fallen victim to it by playing with my sunglasses tucked in the neck of my shirt! I've played around cards I've seen the reflections of in glossy table tops...this only works when someone is in topdeck mode usually, as more than two cards is quite unreliable...However, that constant 'flickering' and nervous movement that most players often do, is quite a help at getting a free telepathy for a turn or so. It's a grey area, but so long as your not setting it up, I say fair play...the more observant player should have the advantage.
@Lord Erman - yeah, holding cards that way is perfect for magic, it's all the info you could ever need, when holding them the traditional way (poker etc..) your covering up the most valuable info on the cards...talk about bad muscle memory...BTW - no offence intended, but I think everyone knows the bluff trick, but your right, I should have filled in one more for that category, and thanks for the nice words.
@Paul - I'll take any advantage I can get. I'm not going to go and setup a mirror behind you ...lol...but if someone is being absent minded, I will capatalize on it. I've fallen victim to it by playing with my sunglasses tucked in the neck of my shirt! I've played around cards I've seen the reflections of in glossy table tops...this only works when someone is in topdeck mode usually, as more than two cards is quite unreliable...However, that constant 'flickering' and nervous movement that most players often do, is quite a help at getting a free telepathy for a turn or so. It's a grey area, but so long as your not setting it up, I say fair play...the more observant player should have the advantage.
@Lord Erman - yeah, holding cards that way is perfect for magic, it's all the info you could ever need, when holding them the traditional way (poker etc..) your covering up the most valuable info on the cards...talk about bad muscle memory...BTW - no offence intended, but I think everyone knows the bluff trick, but your right, I should have filled in one more for that category, and thanks for the nice words.
Flippers I have some constructive criticism if I may:
To be honest I didn't like your versions. They don't seem to focus on your "you win the game" card but they look like something else AND use Barren Glory in the meantime as a secondary win condition. Your first deck is an affinity deck and the second one is a nice beast beatdown deck. To be honest, you can remove Barren Glory from the second deck and add more other cards to support your beasts!
Now every constructive criticism should point out the problem BUT should also offer a solution, otherwise it isn't that constructive.
First solution: Greater Gargadon to sac things, Ethereal Usher to tutor for Barren Glory, Tireless Tribe and Patrol Hound to empty the hand (if Classic legal cards are allowed) and one or two Obliterates too just in case. If budget is no problem, then definately Isochron Scepter too. You can either imprint Lightning Helix onto it or your Remand. Then when the time is right, cast Barren Glory, protect it with your Remand off of your Scepter, sac everything to Greater Gargadon, discard your hand to Tireless Tribe and win. By the way Odds/Ends also fits to this deck very nicely. If Classic cards are not allowed, then Kindle the Carnage could be a nice way to empty your hand.
Second solution: Claws of Gix and again Greater Gargadon to sac things, Malfegor to empty the hand AND to cast WoG in the meantime, Null Brooch (if Classic cards are allowed) to both discard your hand and to protect your win condition, and Netherborn Phalanx to tutor for Barren Glory. One With Nothing could also be a nice budget solution as well for discarding your hand. You can also use Rakdos Augermage for multiple purposes; blocking, attacking, discarding etc...
I hope this whole comment is useful to you. I very much like "you win the game" cards but I believe that if you are using them, then you should be winning with them. Nine out of your ten wins should be that way and only one can be SOMEHOW and OUT OF PURE LUCK the other way; beasts or myrs or Greater Gargadons or whatever.
I hope this didn't come out harsh because, well, you know me well enough to know that it isn't my intention. All I want is to be helpful. I love these series but this one wasen't quite right in my opinion.
Of course what I just wrote could be totaly wrong too; I never tried Barren Glory myself.
Barren Glory was probably the hardest to build around so congrats. The only two versions i have ever seen were Barren Glory + Decree of Annihilation and Barren Glory + Oblivion Ring + Worldpurge.
i like the beast version much better, ive tried decks around barren glory and they really aren't easily focused on it, sure you can get it to win the game for you, but it usually takes awhile and can be clunky 1v1
i ran red/white/blue allies last night, not great, but did have three halimars and won round one, to lose to screw in round two. just curious do you think www is 18 lands auto or can you fiddle with 17-16? i ran 17 and as i said screwed game 2 round 2, but found it to work in other games.
One stupid mistake I've made is always assuming if my opponent wins the coin flip he is going to play. I've passed my whole first turn by accident before... oops!
I completely agree it is more often correct. I've won far more games because I attacked THEN played...but boy howdy do those games I've lost taste awfully sour because I auto-piloted away the correct play.
Bog is okay, don't get me wrong, but as others have pointed out Dredge can win through a graveyard-clearing effect with remarkable ease sometimes. It's not uncommon for a Dredge game to go T1 Bazaar, T2 kill you -- how does Bog help in that sort of scenario? Leyline does get bounced, for sure, but it's a true shutdown until they can bounce it, and much better IMHO than a one-shot graveyard-clearing effect. Bog isn't functionally any better vs. Dredge than Tormod's Crypt is and I haven't really seen that showing up in peoples' sideboards in a while.
Thanks, yeah it's all relative...but mostly, attacking THEN casting is correct...I'd venture to say about 70% of the time...just be aware of the muscle memory :) whichever you need to do or/arn't!
I don't understand how you can make such a big deal about practice making permanent and then give a bad play tip like "attack... THEN play." I'm a horrible player and I know this because I have lost more games than I care to admit because I attacked and then made my play for the turn. So many games I could have won if I had cast my creature with exalted before attacking. The same goes for all the times I had a combat trick but didn't have enough mana to play my instant and pay the 3 for Mana Leak with an unplayed land in my hand. I've got plenty more examples, but you get the idea. I practiced attacking and then making my play when I should have practiced thinking about the boardstate and then making my play.
I enjoyed the article on the whole and there are some great tips in here. I'll go one further on the matching art and just remind players if they have changed the jpg files on their pc that doesn't affect what your opponent sees.
This is a massive problem I have with the client...cards like Cone of Flame need to be clear in what is being targeted for which part of the effect (unless I haven't been paying attention and this was recently addressed).
In my mind, the whole idea of having a Felidar sovereign deck is playing a deck winning by gaining life rather than causing damage to an opponent with creatures. Using this whole different approach is what would have made this deck really original and challenging. For all practical purposes removing Felidar sovereign completely from the deck would have made very little difference most of the time. All but one of your victories were made without it anyway. Only ten cards in the entire deck are related to gaining life.
Also, I believe Standard is a poor choice of format for such a theme. It is already difficult enough to create such an exotic deck with a minuscule budget without further limiting the number of cards available. Extended would have been a much better choice.
Don't get me wrong it is a good deck, but it is a deck that contains Felidar sovereign, not a deck based on felidar Sovereign.
Where are the cards like, for example: Dawglow infusion, Goldenglow Moth, Angel's feather, Boon reflection, reviving dose, hallow or Wall of reverence.
That Ace beats everything? Use this in tournament and you will win EVERY TIME!!!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Apocalypse. Eleven mana doesn't seem unreasonable when compared to the nine mana that made Mr. Teeth so popular. And that's just if you want to do it the straight forward way...without funny tricks like Oblivion Ring.
The bog is good even at sorcery speed. Any GY hate alone will not win by itself, but in conjunction with Bog you now have a sure fire way to clear the yard.
They-dredge- can bounce your hate then therapy it away or needle it or destroy it.
It is something that can be maindecked is never a dead card at worst it is a citbt. Sorcery speed and a land drop are hinderances, small drawbacks for uncounterable-save stifle- undiscardable hate card that only takes 3-4 land slots. what else are you going to cast vs Dredge anyway?
Thanks for writing this article. Publishing this article simultaneously with the release events is tremendous. WotC should be doing this themselves because this is the type of article that will drive more people to play in the events.
I appreciate hearing from readers and I'm certainly open to suggestions on both style and content.
I do think 17 lands is enough, but that based on the multi-kicker element. I, too, drafted last night and found the multi-kicker creatures seem to be drafted pretty highly and I did not have as many of them in my final card pool as I expected. If there are more 'fixed-cost cards' 17 lands might not be a solid assumption.
I am planning on writing a follow-up column half way through the release window to examine 'cards that impressed' and 'cards that disappointed' and what seemed to be getting undervalued during the card choice process.
I've won with Barren Glory, going down the obliterate/decree route. Another good way to clear the board is natural affinity and Kindle the carnage, which should kill all creatures and all lands whilst emptying your hand.
People have offered solutions in the form of new formats, but not in the style of changes to the B&R list. People are now complaining that th B&R list changes didn't fix the format. You see the difference?
Good article!
i had 3x arbor elf and 2x chalice and ran with 16 lands to the finals last nite. i think this is however a 17 land format depending on how high ur curve is
stupid dredging :) well written article and very helpful. i've fallen victim to the "one too many f6" multiple times.
Thanks for the feedback LE it's all good.
I did want to stay in the cards format so Barren Glory would be EXT.
I wanted to keep the deck on a rough budget so WoG is out Isochron Scepter is a possibility I hadnt realised how low the price was for the card.
One With Nothing is a good idea and Greater Gargadon I think should have been included as its a great card to sacrifice to.
I think Barren Glory is the hardest "You win the game" card that I've had to build round yet. If you include creatures you always seem to end up going down the beat down route as its usually too risky late in the game to risk sacrificing everything to try and win next turn via Barren Glory. There's so many aggro and bounce cards around, just one (Into the Roil) and its game over.
Indeed, one reason I like playing with Gemstone Caverns if the deck will allow it...even high 1700 rated players screw that one up....another muscle memory error that often happens online!
sorry, I wasn't logged in for the above comment...
@Paul - I'll take any advantage I can get. I'm not going to go and setup a mirror behind you ...lol...but if someone is being absent minded, I will capatalize on it. I've fallen victim to it by playing with my sunglasses tucked in the neck of my shirt! I've played around cards I've seen the reflections of in glossy table tops...this only works when someone is in topdeck mode usually, as more than two cards is quite unreliable...However, that constant 'flickering' and nervous movement that most players often do, is quite a help at getting a free telepathy for a turn or so. It's a grey area, but so long as your not setting it up, I say fair play...the more observant player should have the advantage.
@Lord Erman - yeah, holding cards that way is perfect for magic, it's all the info you could ever need, when holding them the traditional way (poker etc..) your covering up the most valuable info on the cards...talk about bad muscle memory...BTW - no offence intended, but I think everyone knows the bluff trick, but your right, I should have filled in one more for that category, and thanks for the nice words.
@Paul - I'll take any advantage I can get. I'm not going to go and setup a mirror behind you ...lol...but if someone is being absent minded, I will capatalize on it. I've fallen victim to it by playing with my sunglasses tucked in the neck of my shirt! I've played around cards I've seen the reflections of in glossy table tops...this only works when someone is in topdeck mode usually, as more than two cards is quite unreliable...However, that constant 'flickering' and nervous movement that most players often do, is quite a help at getting a free telepathy for a turn or so. It's a grey area, but so long as your not setting it up, I say fair play...the more observant player should have the advantage.
@Lord Erman - yeah, holding cards that way is perfect for magic, it's all the info you could ever need, when holding them the traditional way (poker etc..) your covering up the most valuable info on the cards...talk about bad muscle memory...BTW - no offence intended, but I think everyone knows the bluff trick, but your right, I should have filled in one more for that category, and thanks for the nice words.
Flippers I have some constructive criticism if I may:
To be honest I didn't like your versions. They don't seem to focus on your "you win the game" card but they look like something else AND use Barren Glory in the meantime as a secondary win condition. Your first deck is an affinity deck and the second one is a nice beast beatdown deck. To be honest, you can remove Barren Glory from the second deck and add more other cards to support your beasts!
Now every constructive criticism should point out the problem BUT should also offer a solution, otherwise it isn't that constructive.
First solution: Greater Gargadon to sac things, Ethereal Usher to tutor for Barren Glory, Tireless Tribe and Patrol Hound to empty the hand (if Classic legal cards are allowed) and one or two Obliterates too just in case. If budget is no problem, then definately Isochron Scepter too. You can either imprint Lightning Helix onto it or your Remand. Then when the time is right, cast Barren Glory, protect it with your Remand off of your Scepter, sac everything to Greater Gargadon, discard your hand to Tireless Tribe and win. By the way Odds/Ends also fits to this deck very nicely. If Classic cards are not allowed, then Kindle the Carnage could be a nice way to empty your hand.
Second solution: Claws of Gix and again Greater Gargadon to sac things, Malfegor to empty the hand AND to cast WoG in the meantime, Null Brooch (if Classic cards are allowed) to both discard your hand and to protect your win condition, and Netherborn Phalanx to tutor for Barren Glory. One With Nothing could also be a nice budget solution as well for discarding your hand. You can also use Rakdos Augermage for multiple purposes; blocking, attacking, discarding etc...
I hope this whole comment is useful to you. I very much like "you win the game" cards but I believe that if you are using them, then you should be winning with them. Nine out of your ten wins should be that way and only one can be SOMEHOW and OUT OF PURE LUCK the other way; beasts or myrs or Greater Gargadons or whatever.
I hope this didn't come out harsh because, well, you know me well enough to know that it isn't my intention. All I want is to be helpful. I love these series but this one wasen't quite right in my opinion.
Of course what I just wrote could be totaly wrong too; I never tried Barren Glory myself.
LE
Barren Glory was probably the hardest to build around so congrats. The only two versions i have ever seen were Barren Glory + Decree of Annihilation and Barren Glory + Oblivion Ring + Worldpurge.
The best one looks like a lot of fun though.
i like the beast version much better, ive tried decks around barren glory and they really aren't easily focused on it, sure you can get it to win the game for you, but it usually takes awhile and can be clunky 1v1
yup, good article and spot on.
i ran red/white/blue allies last night, not great, but did have three halimars and won round one, to lose to screw in round two. just curious do you think www is 18 lands auto or can you fiddle with 17-16? i ran 17 and as i said screwed game 2 round 2, but found it to work in other games.
One stupid mistake I've made is always assuming if my opponent wins the coin flip he is going to play. I've passed my whole first turn by accident before... oops!