You're assuming I started out with the combo and then put the Kor shell around it. I actually started out with wanting to make a Kor deck and used the combo to make it the best Kor deck I could.
As a WW player, I'd love this version to go up against...not trying to sound sarcastic, but the imps are the only thing that keep you in it against air power, the butcher still runs into the problack problems - seems slower in an environment that is only getting faster. Edict seems strong, as does your first mention of Ghastly Demise - your not going to want to take any little creatures out anyways - by the time you need it, boom.
Giving your opponent 2 cards is usually a bad idea unless you are absolutely desperate or have a rocksolid plan for stopping the cards they drop. If you have such a plan you probably don't need the counter.
It's nice to see fresh strategies in extended considering how wide the cardpool is. Since the quality of mill has increased in the past few years, I'm not surprised to see something like this be actually viable. I'm sure this deck is on the cusp of being legitimately competitive :D
Also, as a word of advice, I'd work a little on your writing style.
I have banned one player previously, which amounted to just asking him not to come back. Its not always fun but its fairly easy of hey, dont come back please. No one enjoys playing you.
And yes the players overall where jerky, even to the point of complaining about the pairings which are made on Random.org....mainly because the way it worked out they couldnt both be in the finals, that was kinda the final straw.
Exactly and that's where I share your grief. Once it became a money game the format died really quick. I can share your pain of watching something you put so much work into die from people just being greedy. Do I think this will ultimately kill Tribal? Heck no. But this may just be a rough patch in the format's history. Tribal will survive as will your PRE's. These guys won't hang around forever for 4 ticket prizes.
blau said "Then it really became a format of who could outspend and outbuild the others."
This is what im trying to avoid. Yes I understand its classic but for so long we kept an unspoken level of power between the people that enjoyed playing. It worked out since the price of entry is not that great even with some of the decks me, aj, and le were playing. I mean for everyone complaining about AJ's Moat, run Naturalize. In a non-sideboard format it will still be useful in over 50% of matches, whether you are hitting moat, my battle-axe, or one of paul's swords. Good luck trying to find a way to beat fish on a budget though. THe closest I came was pauper goblins. If i had the money to power the deck, i could have one, but then i wouldnt play full goblins in tribal since pauper was powerful enough.
You can always just look under mtgotraders.com. If nothing else this will be a good place to see what cards are going for. IMO I think their prices are a tab bit high but are at the same time reasonable. You can search all the other bots and you might find something cheaper but they usually don't have the quantity you might need.
As far as the Acolytes they do seem pretty impressive and I will have to get my hands on some of them.
in all honesty i have never had an issue with any decks you bring. Thopter foundry....no offense its good, but not overpowered smash your face...Seeing it in a kor shell was werid but that has more to do with the fact that i think it work work better it in a blue/black wizards deck.
well then I still attest that Shard should have the right, and excercise that right, to bar anyone he feels might be entering the tourney to behave poorly. Even if there a person showed up witha 20 Grizzly Bear deck, if that person was acting like an idiot and attempting to insult people, that person should be asked, politley, to change their ways or leave. I have seen guys like that. I was also a big Vanguard player back when those were weekly during Timespiral. I used to get the meanest comments from people and it was a real turn off. Maybe what we need are some civility rules... just because there are some people that don't understand what "friendly" means.
To ncnxwrwk- I'm glad to hear you would like to see another posting by me and don't worry I am working on one now. I had no problem with what Paul told me.
As far as the tribal PRE, I did participate in it this past weekend and like many of us I was also disappointed due to the lack of "casualness" that this tournament had been know for. I guess the gentleman rule of no abusive combos went out the door. I honestly don't really care for the "Double Tribe" idea for much of the same reasons as blau. The tribalton idea sounds fun but you would kill a lot of the weird and interesting tribes out there. Maybe all we have to do is be stricter on the b&r list and make it a known rule that we will not accept decks like that. Also the Merfolk deck I didn't really have a problem with. If you wanted to dumb that down we could just ban or restrict Aether Vial and force of will. My main concern were these combos run a muck. We could even try something like Ext Tribal.
Two actually, I believe, and I lost to helmline in at least one of them. As I've mentioned before, I haven't played because it's in the middle of saturday afternoon which isn't a conveniant time for me, not because I'm not interested in the format. As a result, I read the articles, for the decks, as I play a lot of tribal in the casual room.
I apologise if you think I'm trolling. It certainly wasn't intended that way. I just don't think there's a solution to this without banning stuff, that way everybody knows exactly what is and isn't acceptable.
I had been wondering for some time why it was so hard to find good games in commander, it seemed like there were rarely if any games running when I wanted to play. I finally got into two games last night and I was really excited until I saw the generals.
Game 1: Maralen, the Mornsong
Obviously a combo deck, but I'm willing to give it a chance in case its some kind of janky fun combo. Teferi's puzzlebox hits the table. Then the player has the gall to say that he only ever gets off the combo a few times. However considering his general is a tutor, he had casted liliana and two other tutors, it doesn't really matter. To top it off he cast Infernal Darkness the turn before. No mana to play spells, no cards in hand ever. this is all on like turn 5/6.
Game 2: Crovax, Ascendant Hero
I was wary, but he had been in the game before with Maralen guy, and he had played a bunch of soldier pump spells and elspeth, so I thought maybe it was just a white weenie with a pumping general. No... it was sweeper after sweeper after sweeper. Of course he also has all of the white graveyard recursion so the game consists of, get 2 creatures, get wrathed, repeat ad nauseum.
I'll go out on a limb here, and maybe that makes me a carebear wiener, but I hate decks in a casual format which are designed around keeping your opponents from doing anything. I don't mind counter-heavy decks, decks with shroud, decks with hard hitting generals because I can still play my game, I just have to play it smarter, but when a player resolves a flipped Erayo/Rule of Law, that player is basically preventing everyone else from playing. One or two sweepers is fine, I know that some decks are slower and need to reset the game state to get back on level playing field, but an entire deck full of them is just hosing your opponent over and over.
I've taken the advice of themonkey here and started a list of players who are on my no-play list. Anyone who wants to share lists can contact me on MODO.
"Well that's a horse of a different color. I thought we were talking about high powered decks, not players who act like douches. If it's a situation that these players are being disrespectful, then by all means, throw the bums out. It's a PRE and there is no room for jerks in an event that is being put on by a community. Looking back at Shard's article where he makes his suggestion, it reads as if he is upset at the decks that are being played and not player behavior. Let me make things perfectly clear. I am in favor of tossing out players that behave like idiots and in favor of creating a fun atmosphere since it is a PRE. I am also in favor of letting players run the decks they want and not asking people to nerf their decks in a tournament environment."
That is overstating a little. They were NOT out and out jerks. They were relatively subtle jerks with overpowered decks and an air of superiority. I could imagine the clan conversation that went something like:
Dude A: "Lets take our daily event decks, modify them to fit the b/r lists of Tribal and crash that dump PRE."
Dude B: "Sounds like a plan...but I want to run Oath...guess I need to pick a tribe for the shell."
Dude A: "Cool Beans, Dude B...Dude C and I will bring Fish and show them why tribal PRES are a dumb idea."
Dude B: "But what do we do with the dinky prizes?"
Dude A: "Feed them to the fish? I dunno LOL!!! Lets go wreck some face!!!"
Hope that paints a clearer picture.
I should amend that. One guy was a bit more overt than the others, talking about wrecking everyone and generally being obnoxious.
I actually have no problems with anyone being in the conversation but it seems to me there are a few of our conversationalists who are bent on placing blame and making accusations which is not really the point of this. (Being that those activities seem rather pointless atm.)
Now I am one of the complainers but I have never brought combo or tier one anything to this PRE much less any MODO event. So lumping us all in together is really just trolling. I have noticed you do that alot Stealthy ...Shall we start calling you Stealthy Troll?
I play to win. I don't complain when I lose. I like to play with and against a variety of decks.
My major interest in this conversation is to get some kind of solid definition of what is acceptible in Shard's tournament and what isn't.
I don't like the whole "That deck is too Spiky, don't play it in my tournament" philosophy. If he changes the rules, I will follow them and try to make the most competitive and fun deck I can. If he doesn't make changes I will be a little upset because it will feel like I have to ask permission from him to play certain cards or combos.
I want clarity, and I want to be able to face any opponents on an equal playing field.
My gut tells me that if your opponent is vampires and has a Bloodwitch out and you can't race them, then a DoJ is more or less going to delay the inevitable rather than get you to a win. Post Worldwake I would much rather go an equipment strategy (Torch and Collar) than DoJ.
However I know you have much more experience with this deck than I do, so I defer to your judgement.
You'd be suprised how much of a douche people are willing to be for any prize. Personal example, I used to run real life PRE's at the local card shop where the prize was $5. It was designed around a Singleton spin-off format we used to play. It was extremely casual while we were all just sitting around playing inbetween standard rounds. We decided wouldn't it be fun if we had a tournament for this format? The entire metagame mutated overnight. We had 20 people show up to this thing for a $5 prize. The casual nature of the format was entirely destroyed as decks showed up with massive amounts of power cards in their decks. I hadn't expected that at all and the casual deck I used to win with went 0-4. Then it really became a format of who could outspend and outbuild the others.
I do like casual Tribal, but let's face it. If I showed up to one of these events, and I brought my KaBoom/Leviathon deck thinking the format was going to be "casual" that is my own stupid fault. I would expect guys like LE, AJ, Shard, and Paul to show up with the BEST decks they have. I would never ask them to lower their power level for a tournament. It's a tournament, it is the player's responsibility to show up with something that is tournament worthy.
Shard you are right that when you say that you, LE, and AJ are willing to reduce your own power when you see something as being overly powerful. I respect that you are willing to moderate yourselves like that. It makes you decent people, but you have to realize that not everyone is going to share your view point. Back when I used to play Tribal Standard tournies online, I would show up every week with Zombies and my roomie would show up every week with Illusions. Why? Because they were good and our goal was to make top eight. Did I feel bad that I crushed some people. Sometimes. But I certainly wasn't going to stop playing Zombies because I felt bad for the people who were losing.
Paul, you are correct, I don't participate in these events. It is something I physically cannot do because of my work schedule. That is exactly why I put that line in my response to your article that my opinion on this matter probably shouldn't be taken overly seriously, since I'm not going to play anyway.
You're also correct when you said I wasn't there to see how these people were acting, but that information was also not provided in this article. All I had to work with was that certain clan members had shown up with powerful decks. Now today I am reading these responses and finding out that they were acting rudely and having general inappropriateness for a relaxed style of tournament. Well that's a horse of a different color. I thought we were talking about high powered decks, not players who act like douches. If it's a situation that these players are being disrespectful, then by all means, throw the bums out. It's a PRE and there is no room for jerks in an event that is being put on by a community. Looking back at Shard's article where he makes his suggestion, it reads as if he is upset at the decks that are being played and not player behavior. Let me make things perfectly clear. I am in favor of tossing out players that behave like idiots and in favor of creating a fun atmosphere since it is a PRE. I am also in favor of letting players run the decks they want and not asking people to nerf their decks in a tournament environment.
As for you calling b.s. on my last paragraph, I hope you don't mean the one about me liking you guys. I really do like you guys. Especially you, Paul. I found myself very rarely disagreeing with you. In fact, it sounds as though we are both on the same side of this arguement. I think jerk players should be tossed, I don't like censoring peoples' decks, and I think the format needs changes. I am with you 100% on this. I didn't dislike your article. You are a fantastic writer with valid view points. I disagreed with your proposed solution. It's a reasonable idea, but I don't think it's something I would enjoy.
Quick summary recap:
Shard: toss the guys out
AJ: keep on keeping on, but if you attempt to fish me in the casual room I will call you out, especially if it's Dan Dan :-P
Paul: I think you and I are on the same side here, with the exception of our ideas on solutions, except for that Singleton one. I am 100% on board with that.
The big problem as Steve said is card values jump up and down from day to day and even hour to hour. For example yesterday before this article went live Sacred Foundry was at 4.75 here on MTGO traders. A few hours later it was up to 6.5.
The other big problem is there is as AJ was telling me privately a barrier that happens when you try to enforce things like this via deck registration on sites. I am not sure I think that is a bad thing but the fact is this adds to that barrier too. I am quickly coming to the conclusion that no one really wants to see a fix anyway and certainly wotc has made no further noise since the weird announcement last month that they would be looking into the tribal rules. (Eventually.)
For now I am feeling rather pessimistic about the whole thing.
no offense taken.
You're assuming I started out with the combo and then put the Kor shell around it. I actually started out with wanting to make a Kor deck and used the combo to make it the best Kor deck I could.
As a WW player, I'd love this version to go up against...not trying to sound sarcastic, but the imps are the only thing that keep you in it against air power, the butcher still runs into the problack problems - seems slower in an environment that is only getting faster. Edict seems strong, as does your first mention of Ghastly Demise - your not going to want to take any little creatures out anyways - by the time you need it, boom.
Giving your opponent 2 cards is usually a bad idea unless you are absolutely desperate or have a rocksolid plan for stopping the cards they drop. If you have such a plan you probably don't need the counter.
I understand that it is card disadvantage but why doesn't anyone play Arcane Denial. It's a hard counter for 1U.
It's nice to see fresh strategies in extended considering how wide the cardpool is. Since the quality of mill has increased in the past few years, I'm not surprised to see something like this be actually viable. I'm sure this deck is on the cusp of being legitimately competitive :D
Also, as a word of advice, I'd work a little on your writing style.
I have banned one player previously, which amounted to just asking him not to come back. Its not always fun but its fairly easy of hey, dont come back please. No one enjoys playing you.
And yes the players overall where jerky, even to the point of complaining about the pairings which are made on Random.org....mainly because the way it worked out they couldnt both be in the finals, that was kinda the final straw.
Exactly and that's where I share your grief. Once it became a money game the format died really quick. I can share your pain of watching something you put so much work into die from people just being greedy. Do I think this will ultimately kill Tribal? Heck no. But this may just be a rough patch in the format's history. Tribal will survive as will your PRE's. These guys won't hang around forever for 4 ticket prizes.
blau said "Then it really became a format of who could outspend and outbuild the others."
This is what im trying to avoid. Yes I understand its classic but for so long we kept an unspoken level of power between the people that enjoyed playing. It worked out since the price of entry is not that great even with some of the decks me, aj, and le were playing. I mean for everyone complaining about AJ's Moat, run Naturalize. In a non-sideboard format it will still be useful in over 50% of matches, whether you are hitting moat, my battle-axe, or one of paul's swords. Good luck trying to find a way to beat fish on a budget though. THe closest I came was pauper goblins. If i had the money to power the deck, i could have one, but then i wouldnt play full goblins in tribal since pauper was powerful enough.
Sorry for the double post but I just noticed I was not login in but that is everything I needed to say.
You can always just look under mtgotraders.com. If nothing else this will be a good place to see what cards are going for. IMO I think their prices are a tab bit high but are at the same time reasonable. You can search all the other bots and you might find something cheaper but they usually don't have the quantity you might need.
As far as the Acolytes they do seem pretty impressive and I will have to get my hands on some of them.
in all honesty i have never had an issue with any decks you bring. Thopter foundry....no offense its good, but not overpowered smash your face...Seeing it in a kor shell was werid but that has more to do with the fact that i think it work work better it in a blue/black wizards deck.
well then I still attest that Shard should have the right, and excercise that right, to bar anyone he feels might be entering the tourney to behave poorly. Even if there a person showed up witha 20 Grizzly Bear deck, if that person was acting like an idiot and attempting to insult people, that person should be asked, politley, to change their ways or leave. I have seen guys like that. I was also a big Vanguard player back when those were weekly during Timespiral. I used to get the meanest comments from people and it was a real turn off. Maybe what we need are some civility rules... just because there are some people that don't understand what "friendly" means.
luckily Jedi are fictional i dont think the world could handle darth spaniel...and yes you would be a sith dont lie...
To ncnxwrwk- I'm glad to hear you would like to see another posting by me and don't worry I am working on one now. I had no problem with what Paul told me.
As far as the tribal PRE, I did participate in it this past weekend and like many of us I was also disappointed due to the lack of "casualness" that this tournament had been know for. I guess the gentleman rule of no abusive combos went out the door. I honestly don't really care for the "Double Tribe" idea for much of the same reasons as blau. The tribalton idea sounds fun but you would kill a lot of the weird and interesting tribes out there. Maybe all we have to do is be stricter on the b&r list and make it a known rule that we will not accept decks like that. Also the Merfolk deck I didn't really have a problem with. If you wanted to dumb that down we could just ban or restrict Aether Vial and force of will. My main concern were these combos run a muck. We could even try something like Ext Tribal.
Two actually, I believe, and I lost to helmline in at least one of them. As I've mentioned before, I haven't played because it's in the middle of saturday afternoon which isn't a conveniant time for me, not because I'm not interested in the format. As a result, I read the articles, for the decks, as I play a lot of tribal in the casual room.
I apologise if you think I'm trolling. It certainly wasn't intended that way. I just don't think there's a solution to this without banning stuff, that way everybody knows exactly what is and isn't acceptable.
Kudos for getting someone to proof your article. First Strike did a fine job.
I had been wondering for some time why it was so hard to find good games in commander, it seemed like there were rarely if any games running when I wanted to play. I finally got into two games last night and I was really excited until I saw the generals.
Game 1: Maralen, the Mornsong
Obviously a combo deck, but I'm willing to give it a chance in case its some kind of janky fun combo. Teferi's puzzlebox hits the table. Then the player has the gall to say that he only ever gets off the combo a few times. However considering his general is a tutor, he had casted liliana and two other tutors, it doesn't really matter. To top it off he cast Infernal Darkness the turn before. No mana to play spells, no cards in hand ever. this is all on like turn 5/6.
Game 2: Crovax, Ascendant Hero
I was wary, but he had been in the game before with Maralen guy, and he had played a bunch of soldier pump spells and elspeth, so I thought maybe it was just a white weenie with a pumping general. No... it was sweeper after sweeper after sweeper. Of course he also has all of the white graveyard recursion so the game consists of, get 2 creatures, get wrathed, repeat ad nauseum.
I'll go out on a limb here, and maybe that makes me a carebear wiener, but I hate decks in a casual format which are designed around keeping your opponents from doing anything. I don't mind counter-heavy decks, decks with shroud, decks with hard hitting generals because I can still play my game, I just have to play it smarter, but when a player resolves a flipped Erayo/Rule of Law, that player is basically preventing everyone else from playing. One or two sweepers is fine, I know that some decks are slower and need to reset the game state to get back on level playing field, but an entire deck full of them is just hosing your opponent over and over.
I've taken the advice of themonkey here and started a list of players who are on my no-play list. Anyone who wants to share lists can contact me on MODO.
"Well that's a horse of a different color. I thought we were talking about high powered decks, not players who act like douches. If it's a situation that these players are being disrespectful, then by all means, throw the bums out. It's a PRE and there is no room for jerks in an event that is being put on by a community. Looking back at Shard's article where he makes his suggestion, it reads as if he is upset at the decks that are being played and not player behavior. Let me make things perfectly clear. I am in favor of tossing out players that behave like idiots and in favor of creating a fun atmosphere since it is a PRE. I am also in favor of letting players run the decks they want and not asking people to nerf their decks in a tournament environment."
That is overstating a little. They were NOT out and out jerks. They were relatively subtle jerks with overpowered decks and an air of superiority. I could imagine the clan conversation that went something like:
Dude A: "Lets take our daily event decks, modify them to fit the b/r lists of Tribal and crash that dump PRE."
Dude B: "Sounds like a plan...but I want to run Oath...guess I need to pick a tribe for the shell."
Dude A: "Cool Beans, Dude B...Dude C and I will bring Fish and show them why tribal PRES are a dumb idea."
Dude B: "But what do we do with the dinky prizes?"
Dude A: "Feed them to the fish? I dunno LOL!!! Lets go wreck some face!!!"
Hope that paints a clearer picture.
I should amend that. One guy was a bit more overt than the others, talking about wrecking everyone and generally being obnoxious.
reading all the comments would let you see there was more to the complaints about these people then just the decks they brought
I actually have no problems with anyone being in the conversation but it seems to me there are a few of our conversationalists who are bent on placing blame and making accusations which is not really the point of this. (Being that those activities seem rather pointless atm.)
Now I am one of the complainers but I have never brought combo or tier one anything to this PRE much less any MODO event. So lumping us all in together is really just trolling. I have noticed you do that alot Stealthy ...Shall we start calling you Stealthy Troll?
Well, I don't complain either.
I play to win. I don't complain when I lose. I like to play with and against a variety of decks.
My major interest in this conversation is to get some kind of solid definition of what is acceptible in Shard's tournament and what isn't.
I don't like the whole "That deck is too Spiky, don't play it in my tournament" philosophy. If he changes the rules, I will follow them and try to make the most competitive and fun deck I can. If he doesn't make changes I will be a little upset because it will feel like I have to ask permission from him to play certain cards or combos.
I want clarity, and I want to be able to face any opponents on an equal playing field.
My gut tells me that if your opponent is vampires and has a Bloodwitch out and you can't race them, then a DoJ is more or less going to delay the inevitable rather than get you to a win. Post Worldwake I would much rather go an equipment strategy (Torch and Collar) than DoJ.
However I know you have much more experience with this deck than I do, so I defer to your judgement.
You'd be suprised how much of a douche people are willing to be for any prize. Personal example, I used to run real life PRE's at the local card shop where the prize was $5. It was designed around a Singleton spin-off format we used to play. It was extremely casual while we were all just sitting around playing inbetween standard rounds. We decided wouldn't it be fun if we had a tournament for this format? The entire metagame mutated overnight. We had 20 people show up to this thing for a $5 prize. The casual nature of the format was entirely destroyed as decks showed up with massive amounts of power cards in their decks. I hadn't expected that at all and the casual deck I used to win with went 0-4. Then it really became a format of who could outspend and outbuild the others.
I do like casual Tribal, but let's face it. If I showed up to one of these events, and I brought my KaBoom/Leviathon deck thinking the format was going to be "casual" that is my own stupid fault. I would expect guys like LE, AJ, Shard, and Paul to show up with the BEST decks they have. I would never ask them to lower their power level for a tournament. It's a tournament, it is the player's responsibility to show up with something that is tournament worthy.
Shard you are right that when you say that you, LE, and AJ are willing to reduce your own power when you see something as being overly powerful. I respect that you are willing to moderate yourselves like that. It makes you decent people, but you have to realize that not everyone is going to share your view point. Back when I used to play Tribal Standard tournies online, I would show up every week with Zombies and my roomie would show up every week with Illusions. Why? Because they were good and our goal was to make top eight. Did I feel bad that I crushed some people. Sometimes. But I certainly wasn't going to stop playing Zombies because I felt bad for the people who were losing.
Paul, you are correct, I don't participate in these events. It is something I physically cannot do because of my work schedule. That is exactly why I put that line in my response to your article that my opinion on this matter probably shouldn't be taken overly seriously, since I'm not going to play anyway.
You're also correct when you said I wasn't there to see how these people were acting, but that information was also not provided in this article. All I had to work with was that certain clan members had shown up with powerful decks. Now today I am reading these responses and finding out that they were acting rudely and having general inappropriateness for a relaxed style of tournament. Well that's a horse of a different color. I thought we were talking about high powered decks, not players who act like douches. If it's a situation that these players are being disrespectful, then by all means, throw the bums out. It's a PRE and there is no room for jerks in an event that is being put on by a community. Looking back at Shard's article where he makes his suggestion, it reads as if he is upset at the decks that are being played and not player behavior. Let me make things perfectly clear. I am in favor of tossing out players that behave like idiots and in favor of creating a fun atmosphere since it is a PRE. I am also in favor of letting players run the decks they want and not asking people to nerf their decks in a tournament environment.
As for you calling b.s. on my last paragraph, I hope you don't mean the one about me liking you guys. I really do like you guys. Especially you, Paul. I found myself very rarely disagreeing with you. In fact, it sounds as though we are both on the same side of this arguement. I think jerk players should be tossed, I don't like censoring peoples' decks, and I think the format needs changes. I am with you 100% on this. I didn't dislike your article. You are a fantastic writer with valid view points. I disagreed with your proposed solution. It's a reasonable idea, but I don't think it's something I would enjoy.
Quick summary recap:
Shard: toss the guys out
AJ: keep on keeping on, but if you attempt to fish me in the casual room I will call you out, especially if it's Dan Dan :-P
Paul: I think you and I are on the same side here, with the exception of our ideas on solutions, except for that Singleton one. I am 100% on board with that.
Don't 'you all' me. Show me where I'm complaining. My spike will always be subordinate to my johnny, but it's there.
The big problem as Steve said is card values jump up and down from day to day and even hour to hour. For example yesterday before this article went live Sacred Foundry was at 4.75 here on MTGO traders. A few hours later it was up to 6.5.
The other big problem is there is as AJ was telling me privately a barrier that happens when you try to enforce things like this via deck registration on sites. I am not sure I think that is a bad thing but the fact is this adds to that barrier too. I am quickly coming to the conclusion that no one really wants to see a fix anyway and certainly wotc has made no further noise since the weird announcement last month that they would be looking into the tribal rules. (Eventually.)
For now I am feeling rather pessimistic about the whole thing.