Correct me if I'm wrong, but Replenish and Rhystic Study aren't online atm... as for Hanna yeah that could be a great add in place of Story Circle maybe or even in the side board.. and while I do have the blue honden in there I'm not sure there's room for the white, sure it'd be nice to have 2 hondens in play, but depending on what you cut it's probably not worth adding, again maybe a sideboard card against burn decks imo
edit: ok yes i looked and I guess Rhystic Study was added in one of the commander decks or something, but currently I don't own it.. the draw off it could be really great, or even Pursuit of Knowledge might be fun
Yeah, as you can see after only a couple of games I realized that I should have Mesa Enchantress in there and it was huge.. I'm not sure on moat though, I did debate adding it, but it seems a bit too much with Ghostly Prison and Propaganda.. perhaps if I were to add it then it would be switched with one of those
Anyone come up with decent life-gain options for Oath decks? I'm having a bit of trouble with the lifeloss. With fetchlands, spirit tokens, FoW, Vampiric Tutor/Imperial Seal, those bits of lifeloss add up. I'm starting to notice it more because I accidentally put myself within kill range with a poorly timed FoW vs an affinity deck (I think Bingobongo was the pilot). While that was truly stupid mistake that guaranteed a loss for me, it not only highlighted my carelessness but also a possible weakness of oath even vs aggro-type decks that normally *should* be what Oath excels against.
I'm really hoping i can find something decent because I want to run Thoughtseizes too.
I am--though exactly what having "no correlation" means is a little dicey. I think I am going to switch things up when I do the next study. I will discuss this in further depth during my wrap-up article.
This is a fun read. I have a couple questions and suggestions for improvement. From your methodology section I infer the probabilities you are providing are correlation coefficients between the incidence a card is played and the game outcome. You provide significance levels of tested hypotheses, but are you using a t-test with a null that says the correlation between play incidence and game outcome is zero? It would be nice to see 95% confidence intervals for the correlation coefficients to give the reader a better idea of population correlation parameter vs. the sample statistics.
I'm quite relieved because not only did I make some very moronic moves that game, I also whined a lot about my stupidity. It's something that should be buried in the back of my memory.
I do enjoy watching and hearing others' thoughts on these matchups, and it has given me a different perspective. Some of it conflicts with my own experiences (only minor conflicts). One of them being the matchup vs Zoo, which in your experience should be easy for Oath.
I've found zoo to be increasingly hard for Oath to beat over time. Perhaps it's just because I've recently been running a lot of experimental oath decks, but I doubt it's just that. I see a lot of Qasali Pridemage x4 and Krosan Grips (even maindecked sometimes), with Rays of Revelation in the SB these days. Those games can get rough. Games like this have actually made me consider swapping out 1 or 2 Mishra's Factories for Mutavaults instead (which are immune to artifact removal, but still vulnerable to Lightning Bolt/Path to Exile/Swords to PLowshares).
Many times, a single Ray of Revelation is enough to seal the game because I wouldn't have enough time to tutor for another Oath before Zoo kills me (exactly what happened in the finals of an 8-man when I was testing Aggro-Loam with Oath--another failure of an idea). Granted, my losses to zoo have mostly been with experimental Oath builds (Aggro-Loam/Oath, Garruk's Oath, Sharuum's Oath, Tezz Oath, etc) vs players in tourney queues (likely using more serious decks than I was). So I'm guessing a lot of people started to notice that Oath was doing well, and adapted.
Bleeping out profanity in a video is still unprofessional imo, not to mention it could deter some of your readers or turn them off to your writing style.
I love your articles and have sent many new players to them for review.
I am curious to see the thresh matchup as I have had some success against oath playing BUG Thresh (love me some thresh)
If you need someone to test vs thresh just give me a hollar! I promise to help you keep the cussing to only a slight minimum lol!
Could you *beep* out the offending words in editing to make the videos suitable? Alternatively, are you allowed to post warnings about the amount of profanity in your videos?
I don't know if there is some sort of guideline required for articles on this site or if you're just trying to hold yourself to a standard. That's commendable if you are, and I'm just trying to see of there's a way for your viewers to see these videos you've put time into making while not treading past the line of decency.
Our Oath matchup never made it to film, I really started doing these videos to give you guys something to visually see, rather than just read. I know for a fact, I get confused (and sound confused) when I play a game of magic, because I literally have 20 things running through my head on scenarios I set myself in. I feel more comfortable speaking, but I've had to thrown away like 20 videos cos my mouth is really well not pg lol. On the other hand, I've been enjoying doing these, so as long as you'll watch, I'll do my best with Classic, EXT, Drafting, and even STD. I know some of you guys don't have the time to watch and like writing, so I'll try and do a variaty, just right now it's easier for me to produce these videos rather than throw together a massive article on classic with history.
I strongly agree with Menace's assessment of Loam and Crucible. They are real champs in mirror.
I've been using a high land count Wasteland/Strip Mine/Loam strategy, with Mishra's Factory beats, and have won almost 95% of oath mirrors with that (18 wins total, losing in only one oath mirror, to Tommstok, who was basically using the same deck, but maindecking that anti-oath strategy). Mishra's Facs do quite a lot of damage on top of the spirit tokens oath decks are giving me (so long as I can destroy or keep Oath off the table the game ends up being strongly in my favour). The factories aren't too bad as anti aggro either. Each alone is a 3/3 defender that can be brought back via Loam or Crucible.
My other, newer oath decks aren't nearly as successful as my original design in oath mirrors, and newer designs have only won about 60% in oath mirrors (and only slightly better in non-mirror games). Though it could just be that people are starting to add more anti-oath tech in their decks these days since it's become so popular.
On the mirror matchup you are referring to that your deck lost against...
I am a bit embarrassed by that oath deck. Haha... The newer oath design I was trying using Porphyry Nodes just didn't work well at all. I've realized after playing with it a few times that it's too difficult to use to my advantage. If the opponent has one Tarmogoyf in play, I don't have an oath yet, and I need an anti-aggro control card, Nodes will only destroy the Tarmo after it already attacked me once. And once that tarmo is gone, my nodes has to go as well (and the worst part, i can't use Orchard to cancel the static event trigger--the one that makes me sac the nodes--. I mistakenly presumed it would due to misunderstanding or misreading the static trigger). Also, I threw in Garruk, and that was a failure (except in our game vs each other). It's almost always been dead in my hand except that one game (where i used it to help win an orchard war by untapping my two orchards and sending you more tokens than your three orchards could to me). Granted, that's one of the few reasons i could think of for including it. The other reason (as an alt win condition and mana accelerant to get a fat creature into play in case Oaths get extirpated or can't stay on the table) was never justified in any game ever.
So it's best we forget that misbegotten child of an oath deck. The only newer idea I might keep from that oath deck is Hide/Seek. That's been pretty good to me so far. Strong card for Oath to have, IMO (not bad for life gain, which oath decks often need (especially ones that run x4 Thoughtseize), can neuter another oath deck in a mirror, and can be enchantment/artifact removal). It has even saved me in a game vs a fairly strong dredge deck, in which i kept myself alive for one more crucial turn by Seeking the opponent's Iona and gaining 9 life. The only problem is the mana cost (and what a formidable problem that is, with RW/BW as its mana cost, even with Orchards).
I have enjoyed reading these articles so far and think this data is quite helpful even if some of the other commenters do not. I agree that it indicates what is more important in games and while it does have some flaws I think this gives some great information. I would love some draft information and hope that wizards will let you do it at PT: San Diego. Thank you very much.
well it has it's ups and downs... things like Cryptic Command are dropping... but the mana base seems to be the most expensive part of any 100cs deck, however also cheaper than a playset for something like classic :)
hmmmm that deck actually looks surprisingly cheap for 100cs. Minus the mana base but then it is near christmas time, this could be fun as far as a starter deck goes.
I watched *all* those. I enjoyed them very much. Hearing your mid-game commentary was insightful. You had a lot to say about your opponent's decks, too. That's a good way to fill the "ummmms" and you're already doing it.
I like the list although the low land count seems bad. Loam is a mirror winning card which was in later Oath builds switched to Crucible as a way to free up draws and mana.
The singelton sideboard imo may be better as they come in for more match ups, but why not play 4 leylines in sb with all this dredge and Oath?
Perish i think might see more sb play as a means to stop Goyf, Gaddock and Progenitus
yeah the first part just takes practice..be glad you arent hearing about uhmm in a public speaking class(that was embarassing). And the Reclamation/Will..lol that would certainly take care of well...anything.
3 avatars left in my collect,overseer,crhronatog and greven,and i will obtain they xD
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Replenish and Rhystic Study aren't online atm... as for Hanna yeah that could be a great add in place of Story Circle maybe or even in the side board.. and while I do have the blue honden in there I'm not sure there's room for the white, sure it'd be nice to have 2 hondens in play, but depending on what you cut it's probably not worth adding, again maybe a sideboard card against burn decks imo
edit: ok yes i looked and I guess Rhystic Study was added in one of the commander decks or something, but currently I don't own it.. the draw off it could be really great, or even Pursuit of Knowledge might be fun
Yeah, as you can see after only a couple of games I realized that I should have Mesa Enchantress in there and it was huge.. I'm not sure on moat though, I did debate adding it, but it seems a bit too much with Ghostly Prison and Propaganda.. perhaps if I were to add it then it would be switched with one of those
Replenish is the biggest glaring omission to me. Other considerations are Hanna, rhystic study and the hondens.
Moat & Mesa Enchantress seem like auto includes.
Tutoring for a Moat can be a win in many games.
you can cunning wish for pulse of the field and play heavier white...
Siege-Gang Commander + Goblin Ruinblaster! Everything just goes BOOM!!!
Oran-Rief, now that card is just silly sometimes.
Anyone come up with decent life-gain options for Oath decks? I'm having a bit of trouble with the lifeloss. With fetchlands, spirit tokens, FoW, Vampiric Tutor/Imperial Seal, those bits of lifeloss add up. I'm starting to notice it more because I accidentally put myself within kill range with a poorly timed FoW vs an affinity deck (I think Bingobongo was the pilot). While that was truly stupid mistake that guaranteed a loss for me, it not only highlighted my carelessness but also a possible weakness of oath even vs aggro-type decks that normally *should* be what Oath excels against.
I'm really hoping i can find something decent because I want to run Thoughtseizes too.
I love the article 10/10! Looking for more videos :)
I am--though exactly what having "no correlation" means is a little dicey. I think I am going to switch things up when I do the next study. I will discuss this in further depth during my wrap-up article.
This is a fun read. I have a couple questions and suggestions for improvement. From your methodology section I infer the probabilities you are providing are correlation coefficients between the incidence a card is played and the game outcome. You provide significance levels of tested hypotheses, but are you using a t-test with a null that says the correlation between play incidence and game outcome is zero? It would be nice to see 95% confidence intervals for the correlation coefficients to give the reader a better idea of population correlation parameter vs. the sample statistics.
I'm quite relieved because not only did I make some very moronic moves that game, I also whined a lot about my stupidity. It's something that should be buried in the back of my memory.
I do enjoy watching and hearing others' thoughts on these matchups, and it has given me a different perspective. Some of it conflicts with my own experiences (only minor conflicts). One of them being the matchup vs Zoo, which in your experience should be easy for Oath.
I've found zoo to be increasingly hard for Oath to beat over time. Perhaps it's just because I've recently been running a lot of experimental oath decks, but I doubt it's just that. I see a lot of Qasali Pridemage x4 and Krosan Grips (even maindecked sometimes), with Rays of Revelation in the SB these days. Those games can get rough. Games like this have actually made me consider swapping out 1 or 2 Mishra's Factories for Mutavaults instead (which are immune to artifact removal, but still vulnerable to Lightning Bolt/Path to Exile/Swords to PLowshares).
Many times, a single Ray of Revelation is enough to seal the game because I wouldn't have enough time to tutor for another Oath before Zoo kills me (exactly what happened in the finals of an 8-man when I was testing Aggro-Loam with Oath--another failure of an idea). Granted, my losses to zoo have mostly been with experimental Oath builds (Aggro-Loam/Oath, Garruk's Oath, Sharuum's Oath, Tezz Oath, etc) vs players in tourney queues (likely using more serious decks than I was). So I'm guessing a lot of people started to notice that Oath was doing well, and adapted.
Really nice! I love videos with commentaries of classic games. I miss Walkerdog's Tezzerator deck ...
Keep them coming! Happy holidays.
I'll take ya up on that offer man!
You should include another Gaea's Blessing in Sideboard, is just 1 slot.- The deck looks interesting, I'll try it.-
Bleeping out profanity in a video is still unprofessional imo, not to mention it could deter some of your readers or turn them off to your writing style.
I love your articles and have sent many new players to them for review.
I am curious to see the thresh matchup as I have had some success against oath playing BUG Thresh (love me some thresh)
If you need someone to test vs thresh just give me a hollar! I promise to help you keep the cussing to only a slight minimum lol!
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Could you *beep* out the offending words in editing to make the videos suitable? Alternatively, are you allowed to post warnings about the amount of profanity in your videos?
I don't know if there is some sort of guideline required for articles on this site or if you're just trying to hold yourself to a standard. That's commendable if you are, and I'm just trying to see of there's a way for your viewers to see these videos you've put time into making while not treading past the line of decency.
Our Oath matchup never made it to film, I really started doing these videos to give you guys something to visually see, rather than just read. I know for a fact, I get confused (and sound confused) when I play a game of magic, because I literally have 20 things running through my head on scenarios I set myself in. I feel more comfortable speaking, but I've had to thrown away like 20 videos cos my mouth is really well not pg lol. On the other hand, I've been enjoying doing these, so as long as you'll watch, I'll do my best with Classic, EXT, Drafting, and even STD. I know some of you guys don't have the time to watch and like writing, so I'll try and do a variaty, just right now it's easier for me to produce these videos rather than throw together a massive article on classic with history.
I strongly agree with Menace's assessment of Loam and Crucible. They are real champs in mirror.
I've been using a high land count Wasteland/Strip Mine/Loam strategy, with Mishra's Factory beats, and have won almost 95% of oath mirrors with that (18 wins total, losing in only one oath mirror, to Tommstok, who was basically using the same deck, but maindecking that anti-oath strategy). Mishra's Facs do quite a lot of damage on top of the spirit tokens oath decks are giving me (so long as I can destroy or keep Oath off the table the game ends up being strongly in my favour). The factories aren't too bad as anti aggro either. Each alone is a 3/3 defender that can be brought back via Loam or Crucible.
My other, newer oath decks aren't nearly as successful as my original design in oath mirrors, and newer designs have only won about 60% in oath mirrors (and only slightly better in non-mirror games). Though it could just be that people are starting to add more anti-oath tech in their decks these days since it's become so popular.
On the mirror matchup you are referring to that your deck lost against...
I am a bit embarrassed by that oath deck. Haha... The newer oath design I was trying using Porphyry Nodes just didn't work well at all. I've realized after playing with it a few times that it's too difficult to use to my advantage. If the opponent has one Tarmogoyf in play, I don't have an oath yet, and I need an anti-aggro control card, Nodes will only destroy the Tarmo after it already attacked me once. And once that tarmo is gone, my nodes has to go as well (and the worst part, i can't use Orchard to cancel the static event trigger--the one that makes me sac the nodes--. I mistakenly presumed it would due to misunderstanding or misreading the static trigger). Also, I threw in Garruk, and that was a failure (except in our game vs each other). It's almost always been dead in my hand except that one game (where i used it to help win an orchard war by untapping my two orchards and sending you more tokens than your three orchards could to me). Granted, that's one of the few reasons i could think of for including it. The other reason (as an alt win condition and mana accelerant to get a fat creature into play in case Oaths get extirpated or can't stay on the table) was never justified in any game ever.
So it's best we forget that misbegotten child of an oath deck. The only newer idea I might keep from that oath deck is Hide/Seek. That's been pretty good to me so far. Strong card for Oath to have, IMO (not bad for life gain, which oath decks often need (especially ones that run x4 Thoughtseize), can neuter another oath deck in a mirror, and can be enchantment/artifact removal). It has even saved me in a game vs a fairly strong dredge deck, in which i kept myself alive for one more crucial turn by Seeking the opponent's Iona and gaining 9 life. The only problem is the mana cost (and what a formidable problem that is, with RW/BW as its mana cost, even with Orchards).
I have enjoyed reading these articles so far and think this data is quite helpful even if some of the other commenters do not. I agree that it indicates what is more important in games and while it does have some flaws I think this gives some great information. I would love some draft information and hope that wizards will let you do it at PT: San Diego. Thank you very much.
well it has it's ups and downs... things like Cryptic Command are dropping... but the mana base seems to be the most expensive part of any 100cs deck, however also cheaper than a playset for something like classic :)
hmmmm that deck actually looks surprisingly cheap for 100cs. Minus the mana base but then it is near christmas time, this could be fun as far as a starter deck goes.
I watched *all* those. I enjoyed them very much. Hearing your mid-game commentary was insightful. You had a lot to say about your opponent's decks, too. That's a good way to fill the "ummmms" and you're already doing it.
Happy Holidays Rich.
I like the list although the low land count seems bad. Loam is a mirror winning card which was in later Oath builds switched to Crucible as a way to free up draws and mana.
The singelton sideboard imo may be better as they come in for more match ups, but why not play 4 leylines in sb with all this dredge and Oath?
Perish i think might see more sb play as a means to stop Goyf, Gaddock and Progenitus
yeah the first part just takes practice..be glad you arent hearing about uhmm in a public speaking class(that was embarassing). And the Reclamation/Will..lol that would certainly take care of well...anything.