1- They are there. People should know this. After the PRE I promised everyone not to play it again but there can always be players with some combo decks and one must be prepared.
2- Disenchant, Naturalize and even Boomerang are good.
3- Or better, one can play creatures such as Nantuko Vigilante or the new Kor Sanctifiers or the blue Riftwing Cloudskate for the same effect.
4- Pithing Needle is good! Actually it's the best.
5- Counterspells are also good.
6- Discard helps.
I will personally never play Combo again but I will always be prepared. I suggest the same to others who are thinking of joining the PRE.
Is the deck that you call "Helm-Line/Painter" also known as Cinnamon Toast Crunch? I see a lot similarities like the fast mana, the two combos, one-of most of the current restricted list, and the random Inkwell target for Tinker. But I could easily be deceived. I'm not a pro and I've never built the deck.
It's a little disheartening that dredge is that dominant. We just got ALL these amazing new cards and the meta is settled already? Although with all the dredge I can see why it didn't settle on something with Counter-Top or Mana Drain. If only dredge didn't require hate to play against.
I don't think Baneslayer Angel can be considered as a waste :)). She's really powerful. But I agree that if you don't own the card then yes, there are really very nice options to replace her.
I am personally still fond to my BRW Angels deck and maybe I will "resurrect" it some time.
I find the use of the Baneslayer in your angel deck to be a waste of $100
it's not needed as i am sure Flippers will tell you when he plays mine
sure a nice card but there are other cheaper options which are worth a mention
Don't get me wrong I like your decks and the article which have given me ideas for Saturday.
I'm always wondering why Phantom Warrior goes around so late. I drafted G/U last week and picked up 3 of them. Anyway, good stuff, but I'm not convinced that you played in the strongest draft ever recorded! (Pacifisms, Pegasi, Assassinates and EVERYTHING BLUE seemed to be ignored?!?!?)
I was playing a pretty powerful tribal giants deck in tsp/lorwyn standard, based around the 8 on-tribe mass removal effects. Updating it for clasic tribal would definitely involve lightning helix, but it always felt like it was 1-2 playable giants short of being a tribal force.
Who won this week by the way? Was it another random classic combo? I'm afraid I was playing the zendikar pre-re, and will probably be playing the release event this weekend.
Wow Felorin, I am really impressed with your thought processes. I knew you were awesome, but never knew you were such a good player. Congrats on the great deck and the wins. Wonderful article also. Informative, clean, and you explained yourself very well while avoiding incorrect decisions that plague most draft recaps.
well considering how my only classic deck(solely for brainstorm mind you) is a U/G mess involving Quirion Dryad and Lorescale Coatl being pumped by blue counters and bounce cantrips i love this. White is about my least favorite color, but i loved the layout and loved the quick concise card analysis. I cant wait till the articles for "my" colors come out.(by the way that would be the other four colors)
Seems like a useful resource for 100s too though perhaps not as apropos. Also a lot of these cards are way under a ticket so the advice seems quite sound to me. Thanks Bazaar.
One thing: I have many good memories with Light of Day but I'm a little bit surprised that you didn't mention Darkest Hour (7th Ed, originally Urza's Saga) and/or Sleeper Agent (10th Ed., originally Urza's Saga). Those two combo well with Light of Day.
This article is so valuable! Thank you very much for the effort compiling this list. Definitely bookmarked.
I must say that I am a big fan of Dangerlinto's CQ list too, but I was missing the updates. Hopefully he will get inspired to do it based on this series.
One small correction: magara can be usest every turn without haste. Just activate, bounce and replay.
Next turn you can do it again.
Just takes 1 turn to get going.
Paul, my Cleric deck has evolved a lot after we played and the final version you saw above went ~20-2 (one loss to UW Merfolk and the other to Flippers). By the way why aren't you joining us Saturdays? It's fun and it's free!
NightAngel, the one you mention is called Kinsbaile Cavalier from Morningtide and it gives knights double strike.
Flippers, I am not sure about Ancient Tomb in Angels deck even though I have to admit that a turn four Baneslayer Angel sounds sexy. One Ancient Tomb would be great as you say but early game two would hurt a lot especially against something really fast.
And Joshua yes they are sunflowers, but hey don't tell that anyone, I called them daisies all the time in the article :)).
Shard, I have my eyes on a RW Giants deck for some time because of the reason you also mentioned. Add in Ajani, Lightning Bolt, Orim's Thunder and some more direct damage and you may have the next winning deck.
Twice I've heard phrasing to similar effect: "There will be no Vintage cards in MTGO Zendikar Packs" and Hammy just quoted him as "no cards from this will be in MTGO packs." Neither of those rule out the possibility of a "Priceless Treasures" promotion online. It would just have to manifest differently.
i used to have a standards Giants Tribal that was more control board sweeper like. It was quite efficient actually 16 maindeck sweepers tend to do that.
reprints of cards from the beginning like Pernicious deed and vindicate would be nice. I mean i never played MTGO when IPA was legal and those cards are pricey. Not to be a jerk but i could care less about the "collectors" and their card's value decreasing. They are online digital objects so i would rather see older bomb cards like that at least slightly more available to newer online players. there certainly is no way to turn my paper ones into online copies. not without selling them at least
Hehe well as I said...its in the eye of the beholder. I guess for me the red really is bad contrast with the green on that card, but I remember at one time feeling differently about it. So opinions change.
And a few words about Classic Combo decks:
1- They are there. People should know this. After the PRE I promised everyone not to play it again but there can always be players with some combo decks and one must be prepared.
2- Disenchant, Naturalize and even Boomerang are good.
3- Or better, one can play creatures such as Nantuko Vigilante or the new Kor Sanctifiers or the blue Riftwing Cloudskate for the same effect.
4- Pithing Needle is good! Actually it's the best.
5- Counterspells are also good.
6- Discard helps.
I will personally never play Combo again but I will always be prepared. I suggest the same to others who are thinking of joining the PRE.
LE
Is the deck that you call "Helm-Line/Painter" also known as Cinnamon Toast Crunch? I see a lot similarities like the fast mana, the two combos, one-of most of the current restricted list, and the random Inkwell target for Tinker. But I could easily be deceived. I'm not a pro and I've never built the deck.
It's a little disheartening that dredge is that dominant. We just got ALL these amazing new cards and the meta is settled already? Although with all the dredge I can see why it didn't settle on something with Counter-Top or Mana Drain. If only dredge didn't require hate to play against.
I don't think Baneslayer Angel can be considered as a waste :)). She's really powerful. But I agree that if you don't own the card then yes, there are really very nice options to replace her.
I am personally still fond to my BRW Angels deck and maybe I will "resurrect" it some time.
LE
Unfortunately I won this weekend's PRE and unfortunately yes, it was another random Classic Combo deck.
LE
Lord we don't hate you,
I find the use of the Baneslayer in your angel deck to be a waste of $100
it's not needed as i am sure Flippers will tell you when he plays mine
sure a nice card but there are other cheaper options which are worth a mention
Don't get me wrong I like your decks and the article which have given me ideas for Saturday.
I'm always wondering why Phantom Warrior goes around so late. I drafted G/U last week and picked up 3 of them. Anyway, good stuff, but I'm not convinced that you played in the strongest draft ever recorded! (Pacifisms, Pegasi, Assassinates and EVERYTHING BLUE seemed to be ignored?!?!?)
MtGO name: gilgameshmm
Shadows in Tide Prison
I was playing a pretty powerful tribal giants deck in tsp/lorwyn standard, based around the 8 on-tribe mass removal effects. Updating it for clasic tribal would definitely involve lightning helix, but it always felt like it was 1-2 playable giants short of being a tribal force.
Who won this week by the way? Was it another random classic combo? I'm afraid I was playing the zendikar pre-re, and will probably be playing the release event this weekend.
Wow Felorin, I am really impressed with your thought processes. I knew you were awesome, but never knew you were such a good player. Congrats on the great deck and the wins. Wonderful article also. Informative, clean, and you explained yourself very well while avoiding incorrect decisions that plague most draft recaps.
well considering how my only classic deck(solely for brainstorm mind you) is a U/G mess involving Quirion Dryad and Lorescale Coatl being pumped by blue counters and bounce cantrips i love this. White is about my least favorite color, but i loved the layout and loved the quick concise card analysis. I cant wait till the articles for "my" colors come out.(by the way that would be the other four colors)
Seems like a useful resource for 100s too though perhaps not as apropos. Also a lot of these cards are way under a ticket so the advice seems quite sound to me. Thanks Bazaar.
Mtgo name: jmliang
Soltari's Vision
Excellent job. Very useful.
One thing: I have many good memories with Light of Day but I'm a little bit surprised that you didn't mention Darkest Hour (7th Ed, originally Urza's Saga) and/or Sleeper Agent (10th Ed., originally Urza's Saga). Those two combo well with Light of Day.
LE
This article is so valuable! Thank you very much for the effort compiling this list. Definitely bookmarked.
I must say that I am a big fan of Dangerlinto's CQ list too, but I was missing the updates. Hopefully he will get inspired to do it based on this series.
Nice piece .
Looking forward to the rest.
One small correction: magara can be usest every turn without haste. Just activate, bounce and replay.
Next turn you can do it again.
Just takes 1 turn to get going.
i wish i would have the winning deck...if i ever get finished writing these papers every weekend ill take the time to play in my event.
Thanks for the comments guys.
Paul, my Cleric deck has evolved a lot after we played and the final version you saw above went ~20-2 (one loss to UW Merfolk and the other to Flippers). By the way why aren't you joining us Saturdays? It's fun and it's free!
NightAngel, the one you mention is called Kinsbaile Cavalier from Morningtide and it gives knights double strike.
Flippers, I am not sure about Ancient Tomb in Angels deck even though I have to admit that a turn four Baneslayer Angel sounds sexy. One Ancient Tomb would be great as you say but early game two would hurt a lot especially against something really fast.
And Joshua yes they are sunflowers, but hey don't tell that anyone, I called them daisies all the time in the article :)).
Shard, I have my eyes on a RW Giants deck for some time because of the reason you also mentioned. Add in Ajani, Lightning Bolt, Orim's Thunder and some more direct damage and you may have the next winning deck.
Thanks again for the comments.
LE
Twice I've heard phrasing to similar effect: "There will be no Vintage cards in MTGO Zendikar Packs" and Hammy just quoted him as "no cards from this will be in MTGO packs." Neither of those rule out the possibility of a "Priceless Treasures" promotion online. It would just have to manifest differently.
Wow just wow this looks great what a valuable resource for anyone interested in classic. I cannot wait until we get the rest of the colours too!
Good job Ben something like this will be referenced and used for years to come!
Great article, but I believe those plains are the sunflower plains from Japan. I'm not sure, and it's not a big deal but I just had to say it :)
i used to have a standards Giants Tribal that was more control board sweeper like. It was quite efficient actually 16 maindeck sweepers tend to do that.
reprints of cards from the beginning like Pernicious deed and vindicate would be nice. I mean i never played MTGO when IPA was legal and those cards are pricey. Not to be a jerk but i could care less about the "collectors" and their card's value decreasing. They are online digital objects so i would rather see older bomb cards like that at least slightly more available to newer online players. there certainly is no way to turn my paper ones into online copies. not without selling them at least
Hehe well as I said...its in the eye of the beholder. I guess for me the red really is bad contrast with the green on that card, but I remember at one time feeling differently about it. So opinions change.
The dragonfly one is my favorite :(
Shadow Surprise
RoryTheGreat on MTGO