Have to say that the draft was a debacle. However, you got hooked up with great cards later so that it didnt matter if you random picked a few times. Not sure if thats the best strategy but good job eventually focusing on a deck and getting it there.
I think that it shows one gem...Recover is very good and really wasnt a mistake to take pick one. Also seems like playing around cards, i.e. playskill, makes up for drafting mistakes more often than not.
for ppl who want to read the articles while out with their iphone or during ur lunchbreak at work where pictures might be blocked it would be great if u could just put a list of the cards in the pax under the pictures like many other sites do...
I was into prismatic until the end of v2.5. I quit for almost a year when v3 proved itself an unacceptable gaming experience during the initial release.
When I came back, MED2 was out of print. To compete in prismatic again, I would need 20 MED2 dual lands, a full set of which ran 400tix. For me, that was the deal-breaker. My collection had x4 of every card I could want in v2.5, but they printed and discontinued a vital set during my hiatus. If I put 400tix in, without regular events, I knew there would be no way I'd see it back. What I did instead was TRADE for four of the duals, one of each minus Tundra. They serve me well in the new 100-card singleton format.
Hey, guys, I'd like to respond to some of the comments :)
@Reaper: Yeah, the decklist was an older one. I was planning to update it but it completely slipped my mind. I think that while relative 'power' is subjective, everyone can agree that there are some commanders who are just more powerful then others due to the strategies they enable. Obviously you need to build accordingly but I think we can agree that something like Zur is generally stronger then, say, Manaichi, the Fevered Dream.
@ Paul Leicht: Surprisingly, Commander isn't really as degenerate as you's think. the nature of the format tends to draw Johnnies and Timmys more then Spikes (although Spikes do play). Horde is probably one of the strongest commanders given it's efficiency and abilities. It enables a few different archetypes, most notably a very strong 5Color Goodstuff type.
@Zimbardo: Commander is, at it's origin, a multiplayer format. People do play it as 1v1 as well, but the original intent was for it to be a multiple player Free For All type of game. It was created as a way to allow players to use cards from Vintage legal sets that might otherwise not see play, and to allow big splashy plays and interactions. That's also why the life total is set at 40; it syou a large enough buffer to be able to play for a longer period of time. With regard to degenerate plays, Commander is all about HUGE plays (not necessarily degenerate plays though). A large part of the fun is being able to hard cast cards like Storm Herd, or Time Stretch or Phthisis. I have to say that I enjoy the majority of games I play. Sure there's the occasional where a Jhoira player obliterates on turn 5 (which was cool to see the first just not the twentieth time) but most games are a blast.
@quetzilla: Absolutely. If you build a deck that's too powerful the table comes gunning for you because they usually know what's in store.
@me, myself and I: ?!? Multiplayer in the v3 client is bugged. All the MP players know this. No one is happy about it. But we'd rather have some MP then none at all. EDH and Commander are different. They have separate banned lists. As an example: Fastbond is banned in EDH but not in Commander (of course it's not available online yet ;) ). As for your rant about casual, I really can't speak to that. I'm sorry your unhappy but the fact remains that there will always be some cards which make someone unhappy. You're bet bet is to start your own games and label them with your restrictions. My feeling is that cards like Myojin of Nights Reach, or 'Geddon, or Sundering Titan serve purpose, even if they aren't "fun" cards. I mean Titan punishes 5Color decks, helping to keep them in check. And the threat of a Myojin forces people to play their cards instead of hording them, and can severely hurt a Combo player who isn't ready to go off.
I'm sure we could make an exception for football hats! :) And please let me know what your in-game name is so I can get you added to the clan if you truly are interested in getting into an up and coming competitive clan. :) You can email me at erikfriborg AT gmail DOT com, thanks!
OK, so you got me slightly interested in the format, which I guess was partly the point of your article.
Perhaps a link to the full rules and B&R list would have been a good inclusion. OK so I've found some on the WotC site but a link wouldn't have hurt.
It's easy to do when you are invested in a format but you didn't mention it was singleton (easy enough to work out from the deck list) or anything about the 21 point of damage from a commander 'kill condition'.
Anyway. It's not the end of the world cos I'm already on the 'net and I can (and did) look this up for myself. What I need to know is how 'friendly' is the format? Are there any interactions or unwritted rules that are going to get me into trouble. Things that you might take for granted but will trip up a new player. Given that there are 4 people playing how much does it ruin a game when one player disconnects or just gives up (I hate when people do that in 1v1 just because they are loosing! I mean it's a game, if the house is on fire or your significant other needs you then fine but don't run off just because someone played counterspell!!!) What sort of reaction do underpowered or rogue decks get? In short how easy is it for the 'new guy' to have fun playing 99+1 cards from his collection without dropping even more cash on the game?
This was typed fast (I'm at work) and if it's coming over as harsh I'm sorry, I liked the article which is why I'm asking the questions. :o)
This weekend I realized that "the hat thing" is actually a prime example of the shared experience I was talking about in the article. Thanks to some anonymous poster criticizing AJ's hat many of us have banded together to show support for a fellow human being. Personally, I feel more camaraderie now than I did before with the folks of this site.
That's great to hear that your clan is staying strong despite the seemingly disparate play styles. I think that your clan is probably one of the exceptions to the rules. Generally what you've described would have a hard time sticking together in the face of adversity, it's a great thing to see that you have been able to weather the many storms of V3. :)
You also make a good point about people taking breaks from Magic. I'm probably an anomaly but I've been playing about the same for the past six years, but I also have a lot of things tying me to the game (writing, mentoring, etc) which keeps me more involved in it.
Excellent, my favourite format that I'll never write about. Good to see someone take the plunge, and I look forward to the rest of the series with great interest.
nice One , im thinking about the elemental Deck for T2 , It looks like it have answers to the meta game. (all the mid range like elf and jund ) but i think its losing to kithkin since its way to fast..
maybe you could cover a T2 game with a few changes in the deck ...:D
anyway i enjoyed reading good job.
I was in a great clan once. The guy who ran it kept it together with tons of enthusiasm and patience. It had a very good atmosphere, helpful people and made MTGO a great experience.
The whole thing collapsed but even to this day I have fond memories of the time I spent and the people I met in that clan.
Sadly it died because WotC decided that Leagues were not important and could be scrapped and it was a League focused clan. People hung around for ages waiting for Leagues to come back but in the end most of them just gave up and quit Magic.
well I sell cards immediatly I get them to my account to mtgotradersbuybot, since its fast and prices are better than smaller bots. Sometimes I use cardhoarderbuybot but it has same buylist (and prices - I think) since it uses same buybot technology.
I have tried to look for some other bots also but they all suck imo. Reason is that they are extremely slow and my time is valuable. Other bots also use 0.00x as buy prices and thats 2 small amount of tix to sell anything in long run.
I sold my collection (almost 50k cards) some months ago but I have already got 8k even I try to sell them daily to bots. I might have to try to sell it soon again to cut the bleeding.
Actually I find the power level thing to be relatively self-correcting. Since you know someone's commander at the start of the game you can get yourself targeted before you even decide on mulligans. I've seen plenty of games where the two 'most powerful' decks bash on each other, and then a third player quietly builds up and wins while the other two are exhausted (full disclosure: that's usually me :)). The trick is to make a powerful deck that doesn't SEEM like a powerful deck.
IMo the biggest problem with commander is the lack of support it gets. It does not have its own banned/restriceted list, instead it uses the same list as paper edh. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME GAME! On top of that, the bugs are so plentiful, that games are regularly bugged out. And the child of alara bug is disgusting. Makes child obscenely powerful.
WOTC needs to decide whether they want commander to be EDH, or if they want it to be a casual format. If it is going to be a casual format, it needs to have a banned list that reflects the reality of mtgo, not the paper edh. Cards that destroy all lands, make all opponents discard their hands, etc, etc run rampant and are a major cause of people quitting games, or disconnecting. In a casual format, who wants to play with no lands? Nobody.
If it is going to be the same as EDH, then stop calling it commander, and make the rules identical, and start having tourneys. Without tourneys it remains a casual format that is almost impossible for new players to have a chance at.
Commander is pretty much the only format I play anymore, and i really enjoy it....about half the time. The other half, someone either comboes out, or plays the black myojin, or armageddon or something similiar. Not fun.
If new players are going to start playing commander they will be blown out of the water repeatedly and most will never come back to play more. The format is broken in many ways, and most likely will not be fixed since wotc completely ignores it.
Like I said before, I am a regular commander player, at least 7 matches a week. I really enjoy the format, and the higher levels of skill neccesary to compete. I do not enjoy facing people that dont seem to understand what the definition of casual is. And yes there is only one definition of casual. If you are one of those people who says that casual is anything you want to play-YOU ARE WRONG.
Good article. I'm glad to see Commander getting some coverage on this site. I just started playing this format a month or two ago, and it's the most fun I've had playing Magic in years. I think you hit the nail on the head about the randomness of games online and the resulting trend toward escalating power levels rather than fun, quirky decks. I agree with the comment that maybe clans are the answer, but since I've never joined one, I don't know for sure. I look forward to reading your next installment.
Good article however I do not agree with why clans fall apart. My clan really doesnt care about winning, no one is close (in land distance) and we dont all play one format, and my clan has been around since 1.0. I think its more of people losing interest in magic for whatever amount of time. I mean can you name a single player who hasnt taken a break from the game one or twice? So if a couple of your most active people take a break or go on vacation then maybe some people will lose interest in the clan or the game because its less fun without the people around. Clans are all multiplayer and the new lag basically killed it so I am sure that is directly linked to why clans have been dying out.
a big chunk of your article repeats when you are about to list your classic meta zoo decklist.
right after "Here is the train wreck I brought to the event."
I'm a little fuzzy on one or two things. These might be worth mentioning in the next article for people who are not familiar with the format(s). What are the differences between EDH and Commander? Is Commander a head to head format or a multiplayer format? Also, I don't think you stated that this is a singleton format, which people would not know until they inferred it from the deck list at the end.
The problem of deck power level that you mentioned seems like a pretty hard nut to crack. I assume it's a lot like trying to make a creative Vanguard deck and then realizing how sick some vanguard decks can be when you go out and play. This definitely seems like a format that should have clans of people who understand when to bring out the power and when to relax and try quirkier decks instead.
I love to build decks, so this sounds like it could be fun. And I wouldn't even have to buy many cards, because I already have a singleton collection. But really long games and degenerate power get in the way of creative fun. I'd be curious to know what approximate percentage of the time you feel you've had a fun game and how often it gets ruined for whatever reason.
Have to say that the draft was a debacle. However, you got hooked up with great cards later so that it didnt matter if you random picked a few times. Not sure if thats the best strategy but good job eventually focusing on a deck and getting it there.
I think that it shows one gem...Recover is very good and really wasnt a mistake to take pick one. Also seems like playing around cards, i.e. playskill, makes up for drafting mistakes more often than not.
-M
for ppl who want to read the articles while out with their iphone or during ur lunchbreak at work where pictures might be blocked it would be great if u could just put a list of the cards in the pax under the pictures like many other sites do...
I was into prismatic until the end of v2.5. I quit for almost a year when v3 proved itself an unacceptable gaming experience during the initial release.
When I came back, MED2 was out of print. To compete in prismatic again, I would need 20 MED2 dual lands, a full set of which ran 400tix. For me, that was the deal-breaker. My collection had x4 of every card I could want in v2.5, but they printed and discontinued a vital set during my hiatus. If I put 400tix in, without regular events, I knew there would be no way I'd see it back. What I did instead was TRADE for four of the duals, one of each minus Tundra. They serve me well in the new 100-card singleton format.
Even though casual articles are not my cup of tea this deck list seems to have a lot of strong peices and seems fun as all get out as well.
thx for the time to show off your take on it.
Hey, guys, I'd like to respond to some of the comments :)
@Reaper: Yeah, the decklist was an older one. I was planning to update it but it completely slipped my mind. I think that while relative 'power' is subjective, everyone can agree that there are some commanders who are just more powerful then others due to the strategies they enable. Obviously you need to build accordingly but I think we can agree that something like Zur is generally stronger then, say, Manaichi, the Fevered Dream.
@ Paul Leicht: Surprisingly, Commander isn't really as degenerate as you's think. the nature of the format tends to draw Johnnies and Timmys more then Spikes (although Spikes do play). Horde is probably one of the strongest commanders given it's efficiency and abilities. It enables a few different archetypes, most notably a very strong 5Color Goodstuff type.
@Zimbardo: Commander is, at it's origin, a multiplayer format. People do play it as 1v1 as well, but the original intent was for it to be a multiple player Free For All type of game. It was created as a way to allow players to use cards from Vintage legal sets that might otherwise not see play, and to allow big splashy plays and interactions. That's also why the life total is set at 40; it syou a large enough buffer to be able to play for a longer period of time. With regard to degenerate plays, Commander is all about HUGE plays (not necessarily degenerate plays though). A large part of the fun is being able to hard cast cards like Storm Herd, or Time Stretch or Phthisis. I have to say that I enjoy the majority of games I play. Sure there's the occasional where a Jhoira player obliterates on turn 5 (which was cool to see the first just not the twentieth time) but most games are a blast.
@quetzilla: Absolutely. If you build a deck that's too powerful the table comes gunning for you because they usually know what's in store.
@me, myself and I: ?!? Multiplayer in the v3 client is bugged. All the MP players know this. No one is happy about it. But we'd rather have some MP then none at all. EDH and Commander are different. They have separate banned lists. As an example: Fastbond is banned in EDH but not in Commander (of course it's not available online yet ;) ). As for your rant about casual, I really can't speak to that. I'm sorry your unhappy but the fact remains that there will always be some cards which make someone unhappy. You're bet bet is to start your own games and label them with your restrictions. My feeling is that cards like Myojin of Nights Reach, or 'Geddon, or Sundering Titan serve purpose, even if they aren't "fun" cards. I mean Titan punishes 5Color decks, helping to keep them in check. And the threat of a Myojin forces people to play their cards instead of hording them, and can severely hurt a Combo player who isn't ready to go off.
I'm sure we could make an exception for football hats! :) And please let me know what your in-game name is so I can get you added to the clan if you truly are interested in getting into an up and coming competitive clan. :) You can email me at erikfriborg AT gmail DOT com, thanks!
OK, so you got me slightly interested in the format, which I guess was partly the point of your article.
Perhaps a link to the full rules and B&R list would have been a good inclusion. OK so I've found some on the WotC site but a link wouldn't have hurt.
It's easy to do when you are invested in a format but you didn't mention it was singleton (easy enough to work out from the deck list) or anything about the 21 point of damage from a commander 'kill condition'.
Anyway. It's not the end of the world cos I'm already on the 'net and I can (and did) look this up for myself. What I need to know is how 'friendly' is the format? Are there any interactions or unwritted rules that are going to get me into trouble. Things that you might take for granted but will trip up a new player. Given that there are 4 people playing how much does it ruin a game when one player disconnects or just gives up (I hate when people do that in 1v1 just because they are loosing! I mean it's a game, if the house is on fire or your significant other needs you then fine but don't run off just because someone played counterspell!!!) What sort of reaction do underpowered or rogue decks get? In short how easy is it for the 'new guy' to have fun playing 99+1 cards from his collection without dropping even more cash on the game?
This was typed fast (I'm at work) and if it's coming over as harsh I'm sorry, I liked the article which is why I'm asking the questions. :o)
Thank you for your very well stated post!
This weekend I realized that "the hat thing" is actually a prime example of the shared experience I was talking about in the article. Thanks to some anonymous poster criticizing AJ's hat many of us have banded together to show support for a fellow human being. Personally, I feel more camaraderie now than I did before with the folks of this site.
Thanks again for your post and your insight!
That's great to hear that your clan is staying strong despite the seemingly disparate play styles. I think that your clan is probably one of the exceptions to the rules. Generally what you've described would have a hard time sticking together in the face of adversity, it's a great thing to see that you have been able to weather the many storms of V3. :)
You also make a good point about people taking breaks from Magic. I'm probably an anomaly but I've been playing about the same for the past six years, but I also have a lot of things tying me to the game (writing, mentoring, etc) which keeps me more involved in it.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us!
Excellent, my favourite format that I'll never write about. Good to see someone take the plunge, and I look forward to the rest of the series with great interest.
Thanks ruckus! very helpful article to me! I always wait your article about classic! Good luck next classic tournament!
awesome work in this article
gl for your race to rome, i hope you will find a ticket plane to go there
That would be true in EDH, but Commander just banned her (it looks that way).
I hope they will soon unban CoW tho :/
nice One , im thinking about the elemental Deck for T2 , It looks like it have answers to the meta game. (all the mid range like elf and jund ) but i think its losing to kithkin since its way to fast..
maybe you could cover a T2 game with a few changes in the deck ...:D
anyway i enjoyed reading good job.
I was in a great clan once. The guy who ran it kept it together with tons of enthusiasm and patience. It had a very good atmosphere, helpful people and made MTGO a great experience.
The whole thing collapsed but even to this day I have fond memories of the time I spent and the people I met in that clan.
Sadly it died because WotC decided that Leagues were not important and could be scrapped and it was a League focused clan. People hung around for ages waiting for Leagues to come back but in the end most of them just gave up and quit Magic.
well I sell cards immediatly I get them to my account to mtgotradersbuybot, since its fast and prices are better than smaller bots. Sometimes I use cardhoarderbuybot but it has same buylist (and prices - I think) since it uses same buybot technology.
I have tried to look for some other bots also but they all suck imo. Reason is that they are extremely slow and my time is valuable. Other bots also use 0.00x as buy prices and thats 2 small amount of tix to sell anything in long run.
I sold my collection (almost 50k cards) some months ago but I have already got 8k even I try to sell them daily to bots. I might have to try to sell it soon again to cut the bleeding.
Actually I find the power level thing to be relatively self-correcting. Since you know someone's commander at the start of the game you can get yourself targeted before you even decide on mulligans. I've seen plenty of games where the two 'most powerful' decks bash on each other, and then a third player quietly builds up and wins while the other two are exhausted (full disclosure: that's usually me :)). The trick is to make a powerful deck that doesn't SEEM like a powerful deck.
This isnt exactly the right forum to bitch about the format if you want to be heard... actually best bet with that is emailing wotc.
Also, you talk about a 'definition of casual' but don't say what that is, then proceed to tell people they are 'WRONG' if they disagree with you?
AFAIK Braids is only banned as a commander, you can still put her in the rest of your 99.
IMo the biggest problem with commander is the lack of support it gets. It does not have its own banned/restriceted list, instead it uses the same list as paper edh. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME GAME! On top of that, the bugs are so plentiful, that games are regularly bugged out. And the child of alara bug is disgusting. Makes child obscenely powerful.
WOTC needs to decide whether they want commander to be EDH, or if they want it to be a casual format. If it is going to be a casual format, it needs to have a banned list that reflects the reality of mtgo, not the paper edh. Cards that destroy all lands, make all opponents discard their hands, etc, etc run rampant and are a major cause of people quitting games, or disconnecting. In a casual format, who wants to play with no lands? Nobody.
If it is going to be the same as EDH, then stop calling it commander, and make the rules identical, and start having tourneys. Without tourneys it remains a casual format that is almost impossible for new players to have a chance at.
Commander is pretty much the only format I play anymore, and i really enjoy it....about half the time. The other half, someone either comboes out, or plays the black myojin, or armageddon or something similiar. Not fun.
If new players are going to start playing commander they will be blown out of the water repeatedly and most will never come back to play more. The format is broken in many ways, and most likely will not be fixed since wotc completely ignores it.
Like I said before, I am a regular commander player, at least 7 matches a week. I really enjoy the format, and the higher levels of skill neccesary to compete. I do not enjoy facing people that dont seem to understand what the definition of casual is. And yes there is only one definition of casual. If you are one of those people who says that casual is anything you want to play-YOU ARE WRONG.
Good article. I'm glad to see Commander getting some coverage on this site. I just started playing this format a month or two ago, and it's the most fun I've had playing Magic in years. I think you hit the nail on the head about the randomness of games online and the resulting trend toward escalating power levels rather than fun, quirky decks. I agree with the comment that maybe clans are the answer, but since I've never joined one, I don't know for sure. I look forward to reading your next installment.
Good article however I do not agree with why clans fall apart. My clan really doesnt care about winning, no one is close (in land distance) and we dont all play one format, and my clan has been around since 1.0. I think its more of people losing interest in magic for whatever amount of time. I mean can you name a single player who hasnt taken a break from the game one or twice? So if a couple of your most active people take a break or go on vacation then maybe some people will lose interest in the clan or the game because its less fun without the people around. Clans are all multiplayer and the new lag basically killed it so I am sure that is directly linked to why clans have been dying out.
im not sure what happened, maybe claytor can edit that out for me
a big chunk of your article repeats when you are about to list your classic meta zoo decklist.
right after "Here is the train wreck I brought to the event."
I'm a little fuzzy on one or two things. These might be worth mentioning in the next article for people who are not familiar with the format(s). What are the differences between EDH and Commander? Is Commander a head to head format or a multiplayer format? Also, I don't think you stated that this is a singleton format, which people would not know until they inferred it from the deck list at the end.
The problem of deck power level that you mentioned seems like a pretty hard nut to crack. I assume it's a lot like trying to make a creative Vanguard deck and then realizing how sick some vanguard decks can be when you go out and play. This definitely seems like a format that should have clans of people who understand when to bring out the power and when to relax and try quirkier decks instead.
I love to build decks, so this sounds like it could be fun. And I wouldn't even have to buy many cards, because I already have a singleton collection. But really long games and degenerate power get in the way of creative fun. I'd be curious to know what approximate percentage of the time you feel you've had a fun game and how often it gets ruined for whatever reason.