My deck came fifth but I see that Andy really hated it. In fact Andy gave no other deck 1 point just mine. Was it that bad Andy? :( You broke my heart.
Congratulations to Appollus!! I would personally replace 2 Necromancer's Covenant with 2 removal. 4 of a card means that one needs that card as early as possible. But you don't need Covenant in your opening hand. 2 would be enough I believe. Just some thoughts.
@effo: blue for aven/air elemental is not v gd here.. cos the deck has minimal mana fixing and blue is too light to make main color here..
@exodus/basic land:
bracers are good but not always.. v strong with fatties that suddenly become unblockable.. it really depends on the deck and the matchups so it should be a more fluid choice to board in/out.
enchantress depends on the cardpool and opp.. u have 3 enchantments in the maindeck.. so why not?
i would never ever play grizzly bears in the format. it's just not worth it.
bogardan firefiend is good since it trades with x/3s or x/4s.
hill giants are a must because it is one of the top red cards in the format.
verdant force is not needed in that deck.. too far off on the curve to matter consistently despite its large size and cool ability.
citanul and abundance are both great cards.. but i think playing one of them is more than enough, instead of both.
commune with nature is not worth the slots cos it might blank.
the composite golem lying in the sb might be useful in the deck together with citanul. a 4/4 body is decent too. (much better than verdant force in the deck imo)
I might not be on Magic Online today, so I thought of answering to your article instead. In regards to your actual pool it seems ridiculous and it certainly has bombs which you need in 10th Ed Sealed to succeed. The only adjustments I would've made are only playing 17 land as I realize your curve is somewhat high although you still need to not get flooded and curve out usually regardless to win. Treetop Bracers is pretty horrid as it always walks into a 2 for 1, while Grizzly Bears doesn't suit your deck at all. Bogarden Firefiend I have disliked for many reasons as you cannot play it when you have creatures on the board and they do not.... good players will destroy your board if played properly and I have played with it and against it many times.
Why do you dislike Yavimaya Enchantress so much... it's like much better than you assume! Hill Giant should almost always be played as it defines the format in the 4 drop category and can trade with majority of threats. Sylvan Basilisk .... this thing is removal and a half and what made you not play him?
Now to your other replies, I didn't want to judge them that much as I can't stand reading irrelevant replies yet.... Effovex: Do you even understand the concept behind being consistent and therefore winning? ElwoodPDown: Abundance is insane, and Citanul Flute is easily playable ....
Seriously if you random people haven't played the format do not say Abundance is 'jank'. It's like saying in reality that Banefire is crap because it only kills opponents! The theory behind this game is to outdraw, outplay, and outrace your opponent.
Faerie trickery> dissipate?
The only real reason why u'd want to play faerie trickery is that you are either playing the faerie harbinger or that you want to play secluded glen untapped. faerie trickery is blank against changelings and faeries which are more likely to be played so dissipate > faerie trickery.
Also, both cards are primarily thought to be good because of their ability to let a player not waste slots trying to fight cards like genesis but it's really not needed.
If you notice, that particular deck is like a rock deck (rock decks dun need to be green/black unlike popular belief) rather than the classic Ub control and the deck is very black heavy, which is probably why counterspell is not in there. Most ub control tend to want to be more blue heavy and have more instant speed effects.
About the banning idea about sofi, soli, I hope that people don't get the idea that every card that everyone can play should be banned. It's really not about that. Bannings should only be for cards that can wreck the format. Swords are are much easier to play around than jitte ever was and jitte can easily be played around.
I don't think bloodbraid elves should be banned in ala blk con if it was 4x in every of the top 8 deck should it?
About the aggro>control, control>combo, combo>aggro, that statement is very inaccurate. Everyone says that but it is not that simple a case because singleton 100 is a special format by itself. I personally think that control decks should be made to be gd vs aggro as control decks have no real reason not to be gd vs aggro. Combo decks tend to lose to aggro in this format where people need longer to set up a combo.
Abundance is not junk in 10ed sealed. It is actually quite a bomb. For example, if you already have all the lands you need it guarantees yo u wont draw a land for the rest of the game. And vice versa, if you are stuck on lands and need a few, it makes sure you will draw them.
Yeah, abundance is junk. lunatiC flute is very conditional, but my build would have played it. Grb, as you said, seems to be the best build. GJ on crushing in X sealeds!
On the UWb good stuff deck, I fail to see how reliable 8 bears as a win condition really holds out now in the new format with a lot more aggro decks. I can imagine that by adding Trinket Mage and Phyrexian Dreadnaught, the speed and power of that deck can be increased by double.
I've tried R/G aggro in paper pauper at my store (throwing in all stars like Blastoderm of course), and I just can't get the deck to perform. I would have loved to see some testing results for this build.
I wish I had known you were interested in writing an article like this. I think we could have done a two-part article point-counterpoint style on Mongrel and/or Gush or any number of other cards after slinging a set of matches on MTGO that would have been interesting.
I've been having success with a very similar deck. I run scuzzback scrappers instead of fanatics as they turn on blades of which I run 8. The mongrel gets replaced by werebear as I also run spark elementals to cascade into, so I never have a problem with threshold. Lastly Volcanic Hammer instead of colossal might as Pump is weak to removal. Only entered one 2-man, but beat MUC. And have gone 4-2 in tournament practice with a close loss to slivers and a flat out butt whooping by a B/R aggro cascading with demonic dread.
But really I think I would have gone for UG with a splash for either the incinerates or the black removal. Air Elemental is a bomb, Aven Windreader is a great dude, cloud elemental is quite good, and remove soul is almost removal. Green+RG splashes would also have crossed my mind - I recall playing a 3-0 Tempest draft deck that was monogreen with a splash of red for 2 x Lightning Blasts and Kindle, and black for 2x Gravediggers.
I don't know, I think the article is interesting and your reasoning is good, but the destruction of Motu's column was a bit petty. His article certainly missed the mark, because of the lack of game descriptions and matchup analysis, but the jury is still technically out on Gush. It's just Motu (and anyone else who thinks the card has potential)'s job to prove the card good with actual results. I know you were trying to write about synergy, but in the end you just ended up talking about how Gush is not good and can't be good, and I think that's bringing it a bit too far - it just ends up being an attack on his opinion.
In fact, if you take out the half of the article you have dedicated to bashing Gush, you end up with a pretty short article on Cascade and a deck that while I'm quite sure is good, doesn't seem like it would be all that different with Fireblasts instead of the outbursts, and possibly more consistent.
Im taking your deck, but making it standard. I dont really like classic, and I dont own any Lightning Bolts. I had a dozen in paper years ago, but thats another story. 5 mountains to you.
Typos: yup. I can't write on a laptop keyboard without a lot of them. Sorry. I need a laptop with a full size, IBM Selectric style keyboard. Those don't exist. So, sorry, but when I am traveling, typos happen.
I corrected 17 in typing the last paragraph. Hate this keyboard.
Harsh commenters: they are just jealous because I am in Hawaii, and they are not. (To those folks. I'm gonna get an alt-art Serra Angel avatar. Nya Nya Nya.)
Recumbent Bliss: I remembered the name, and the art - and was completely wrong about the text. For some reason I remembered that exact name, type and art as a bad Mind Bend - something that screwed with colors. To be clear - Pacifism is great, and I have first picked it in many drafts. Bliss is a better Pacifism. Getting even one, when I remember what it does, would have been great. Getting two would have been worth a victory lap (at least it would if my computer hadn't been on my knees, etc.)
Yes, I should have picked the Blisses. Probably would have won hte draft. I might even have drafted them, correctly, if I hadn't been massively jet-lagged and so forth. Sure, I screwed up, and normally I'd be pretty pissed at myself about it, but I'm in Hawaii and tomorrow I'll be covering the Top 8 draft at the Pro Tour.
Just saying.
Summary: I;m really sorry for the typos. I'm also sorry for the bad picks - but the point was that you can keep playing in NIX TIX formats even if you are not an expert, and even if you do punt some picks - which I did.
Not sure why some other commenters felt it necessary to be so rude. I was pretty sure that the point of this article was to show how to do well in a draft format that you aren't quite prepared for. Therefore, no knowledge of the format is the entire point of this article. It's true that there were typos, but the article gives some quality information to people who don't know how drafting unknown formats should work.
I do disagree with you on not picking either of those Recumbent Bliss though, especially the first one. You could have had Bliss or Spitemare, who is somewhat like reusable removal. He's either evasion or removal, both of which are solid picks. I can see where you're coming from in not picking the second one. You have a chance at getting some card advantage with Fire at Will; Bliss won't give you that, but it does do a tremendous job when you're attempting to stabalize.
I did run a spell check, but I'll credit it to being distracted, and on my way to a PTQ this weekend. My apologies, I do a much better job when there is nothing else going on :)
This is a great article to introduce people the powerful (budget) monster that is dredge. I hope you can bring the second part of this article about dredge because there are so many more areas for it to discuss
Ex: Cephalid Sage- Eternal Witness- River Kelpie
Akroma- SSS- Inkwell Leviathan- Sundering titan
3 or 4 Ichorid- Cabal Therapies
Tolarian Wind vs Tireless tribe
Greater gargadon (the new sb tech) vs Needle
I am a dedicated dredge player and I would really like to hear nofxdarkside2's and your opinions about these subjects from your playtesting.
My deck came fifth but I see that Andy really hated it. In fact Andy gave no other deck 1 point just mine. Was it that bad Andy? :( You broke my heart.
Congratulations to Appollus!! I would personally replace 2 Necromancer's Covenant with 2 removal. 4 of a card means that one needs that card as early as possible. But you don't need Covenant in your opening hand. 2 would be enough I believe. Just some thoughts.
LE
@effo: blue for aven/air elemental is not v gd here.. cos the deck has minimal mana fixing and blue is too light to make main color here..
@exodus/basic land:
bracers are good but not always.. v strong with fatties that suddenly become unblockable.. it really depends on the deck and the matchups so it should be a more fluid choice to board in/out.
enchantress depends on the cardpool and opp.. u have 3 enchantments in the maindeck.. so why not?
i would never ever play grizzly bears in the format. it's just not worth it.
bogardan firefiend is good since it trades with x/3s or x/4s.
hill giants are a must because it is one of the top red cards in the format.
verdant force is not needed in that deck.. too far off on the curve to matter consistently despite its large size and cool ability.
citanul and abundance are both great cards.. but i think playing one of them is more than enough, instead of both.
commune with nature is not worth the slots cos it might blank.
the composite golem lying in the sb might be useful in the deck together with citanul. a 4/4 body is decent too. (much better than verdant force in the deck imo)
Hey,
I might not be on Magic Online today, so I thought of answering to your article instead. In regards to your actual pool it seems ridiculous and it certainly has bombs which you need in 10th Ed Sealed to succeed. The only adjustments I would've made are only playing 17 land as I realize your curve is somewhat high although you still need to not get flooded and curve out usually regardless to win. Treetop Bracers is pretty horrid as it always walks into a 2 for 1, while Grizzly Bears doesn't suit your deck at all. Bogarden Firefiend I have disliked for many reasons as you cannot play it when you have creatures on the board and they do not.... good players will destroy your board if played properly and I have played with it and against it many times.
Why do you dislike Yavimaya Enchantress so much... it's like much better than you assume! Hill Giant should almost always be played as it defines the format in the 4 drop category and can trade with majority of threats. Sylvan Basilisk .... this thing is removal and a half and what made you not play him?
Now to your other replies, I didn't want to judge them that much as I can't stand reading irrelevant replies yet.... Effovex: Do you even understand the concept behind being consistent and therefore winning? ElwoodPDown: Abundance is insane, and Citanul Flute is easily playable ....
Seriously if you random people haven't played the format do not say Abundance is 'jank'. It's like saying in reality that Banefire is crap because it only kills opponents! The theory behind this game is to outdraw, outplay, and outrace your opponent.
oo.. I found something to back up my point.. mike flores talks about "the rock" at http://fivewithflores.com/
Faerie trickery> dissipate?
The only real reason why u'd want to play faerie trickery is that you are either playing the faerie harbinger or that you want to play secluded glen untapped. faerie trickery is blank against changelings and faeries which are more likely to be played so dissipate > faerie trickery.
Also, both cards are primarily thought to be good because of their ability to let a player not waste slots trying to fight cards like genesis but it's really not needed.
If you notice, that particular deck is like a rock deck (rock decks dun need to be green/black unlike popular belief) rather than the classic Ub control and the deck is very black heavy, which is probably why counterspell is not in there. Most ub control tend to want to be more blue heavy and have more instant speed effects.
About the banning idea about sofi, soli, I hope that people don't get the idea that every card that everyone can play should be banned. It's really not about that. Bannings should only be for cards that can wreck the format. Swords are are much easier to play around than jitte ever was and jitte can easily be played around.
I don't think bloodbraid elves should be banned in ala blk con if it was 4x in every of the top 8 deck should it?
About the aggro>control, control>combo, combo>aggro, that statement is very inaccurate. Everyone says that but it is not that simple a case because singleton 100 is a special format by itself. I personally think that control decks should be made to be gd vs aggro as control decks have no real reason not to be gd vs aggro. Combo decks tend to lose to aggro in this format where people need longer to set up a combo.
Abundance is not junk in 10ed sealed. It is actually quite a bomb. For example, if you already have all the lands you need it guarantees yo u wont draw a land for the rest of the game. And vice versa, if you are stuck on lands and need a few, it makes sure you will draw them.
I'm glad to see the system you used to pick the winner. With it, the best deck won. Great build Appollus.
edited by JXC
Reason: Took your idea and put it in the article. Thank you.
Congrats on the success. Nice article: the layout is great and the game play is easy to read. Keep up the good work!
you can still do that article.
sounds good.
Yeah, abundance is junk. lunatiC flute is very conditional, but my build would have played it. Grb, as you said, seems to be the best build. GJ on crushing in X sealeds!
On the UWb good stuff deck, I fail to see how reliable 8 bears as a win condition really holds out now in the new format with a lot more aggro decks. I can imagine that by adding Trinket Mage and Phyrexian Dreadnaught, the speed and power of that deck can be increased by double.
I've tried R/G aggro in paper pauper at my store (throwing in all stars like Blastoderm of course), and I just can't get the deck to perform. I would have loved to see some testing results for this build.
I wish I had known you were interested in writing an article like this. I think we could have done a two-part article point-counterpoint style on Mongrel and/or Gush or any number of other cards after slinging a set of matches on MTGO that would have been interesting.
I've been having success with a very similar deck. I run scuzzback scrappers instead of fanatics as they turn on blades of which I run 8. The mongrel gets replaced by werebear as I also run spark elementals to cascade into, so I never have a problem with threshold. Lastly Volcanic Hammer instead of colossal might as Pump is weak to removal. Only entered one 2-man, but beat MUC. And have gone 4-2 in tournament practice with a close loss to slivers and a flat out butt whooping by a B/R aggro cascading with demonic dread.
for the last inovation possible in the history of magic with necro? For shame! lol
But really I think I would have gone for UG with a splash for either the incinerates or the black removal. Air Elemental is a bomb, Aven Windreader is a great dude, cloud elemental is quite good, and remove soul is almost removal. Green+RG splashes would also have crossed my mind - I recall playing a 3-0 Tempest draft deck that was monogreen with a splash of red for 2 x Lightning Blasts and Kindle, and black for 2x Gravediggers.
I don't know, I think the article is interesting and your reasoning is good, but the destruction of Motu's column was a bit petty. His article certainly missed the mark, because of the lack of game descriptions and matchup analysis, but the jury is still technically out on Gush. It's just Motu (and anyone else who thinks the card has potential)'s job to prove the card good with actual results. I know you were trying to write about synergy, but in the end you just ended up talking about how Gush is not good and can't be good, and I think that's bringing it a bit too far - it just ends up being an attack on his opinion.
In fact, if you take out the half of the article you have dedicated to bashing Gush, you end up with a pretty short article on Cascade and a deck that while I'm quite sure is good, doesn't seem like it would be all that different with Fireblasts instead of the outbursts, and possibly more consistent.
Im taking your deck, but making it standard. I dont really like classic, and I dont own any Lightning Bolts. I had a dozen in paper years ago, but thats another story. 5 mountains to you.
is over. We'll have the results up on Monday.
Keep up the good work Pete.
LE (who's waiting for Pete's Hawaii report excitedly)
Typos: yup. I can't write on a laptop keyboard without a lot of them. Sorry. I need a laptop with a full size, IBM Selectric style keyboard. Those don't exist. So, sorry, but when I am traveling, typos happen.
I corrected 17 in typing the last paragraph. Hate this keyboard.
Harsh commenters: they are just jealous because I am in Hawaii, and they are not. (To those folks. I'm gonna get an alt-art Serra Angel avatar. Nya Nya Nya.)
Recumbent Bliss: I remembered the name, and the art - and was completely wrong about the text. For some reason I remembered that exact name, type and art as a bad Mind Bend - something that screwed with colors. To be clear - Pacifism is great, and I have first picked it in many drafts. Bliss is a better Pacifism. Getting even one, when I remember what it does, would have been great. Getting two would have been worth a victory lap (at least it would if my computer hadn't been on my knees, etc.)
Yes, I should have picked the Blisses. Probably would have won hte draft. I might even have drafted them, correctly, if I hadn't been massively jet-lagged and so forth. Sure, I screwed up, and normally I'd be pretty pissed at myself about it, but I'm in Hawaii and tomorrow I'll be covering the Top 8 draft at the Pro Tour.
Just saying.
Summary: I;m really sorry for the typos. I'm also sorry for the bad picks - but the point was that you can keep playing in NIX TIX formats even if you are not an expert, and even if you do punt some picks - which I did.
Not sure why some other commenters felt it necessary to be so rude. I was pretty sure that the point of this article was to show how to do well in a draft format that you aren't quite prepared for. Therefore, no knowledge of the format is the entire point of this article. It's true that there were typos, but the article gives some quality information to people who don't know how drafting unknown formats should work.
I do disagree with you on not picking either of those Recumbent Bliss though, especially the first one. You could have had Bliss or Spitemare, who is somewhat like reusable removal. He's either evasion or removal, both of which are solid picks. I can see where you're coming from in not picking the second one. You have a chance at getting some card advantage with Fire at Will; Bliss won't give you that, but it does do a tremendous job when you're attempting to stabalize.
Will be posted on Monday. I'm hoping to have the top ten budget decks up as well on Monday.
I did run a spell check, but I'll credit it to being distracted, and on my way to a PTQ this weekend. My apologies, I do a much better job when there is nothing else going on :)
This is a great article to introduce people the powerful (budget) monster that is dredge. I hope you can bring the second part of this article about dredge because there are so many more areas for it to discuss
Ex: Cephalid Sage- Eternal Witness- River Kelpie
Akroma- SSS- Inkwell Leviathan- Sundering titan
3 or 4 Ichorid- Cabal Therapies
Tolarian Wind vs Tireless tribe
Greater gargadon (the new sb tech) vs Needle
I am a dedicated dredge player and I would really like to hear nofxdarkside2's and your opinions about these subjects from your playtesting.
Hoping to see a second part