Thank you Danger for the comments. I do appreciate them. It will help me with further decks I would like to talk about. For the merfolk and even Elves! matchups maybe volcanic fallout (an instant uncounterable pyroclasm can help out). And in future articles I will make sure to hit every big match up! :-)
First gimli, I think if you want to tout Dragon Stompy as a budget deck, you had better go on to show how well it plays vs *at least* the decks you are likely to see in a Top 8.
How does it fare vs
- Merfolk (not well - you will probably not resolve Boil, and Aether Vial makes both Trinisphere and Chalice meaningless.)
- Pox? (not bad).
- Bant Aggro (practically an auto-loss)
- Elves! (Chalice and Trinishpere are good, but you still need to beat down because they will find 3 mana and they will grip and they will combo out)
- Zoo (not well)
What is bad about missing these types of decks is if someone follows your assertion that this deck will play well vs the meta, and goes on to face mostly decks it losses too (of which there are many), they will tend to think badly of your original assertion: That you don't need to spend money to win.
Personally, I don't think long term that if you were thinking about a deck that t is light an the wallet but heavy on beating on classic for a while, that this is the deck you will choose.
PS - if ANT is running Hurky'ls Recall, and can get at it, short of having pyroblast in your hand ready it spells certain doom if you haven't beat their life total to a pulp already. I've won this way numerous times in TP.
PPS - Boil is terrible. I'd rather run more Needles or Null Rods for Vial, Factory and Top. Though I guess that ups the cost, and Rods would hurt your Mox.
That is a true statement. In the CB deck I am currently playing with..the only colorless mana I have is singletons of wasteland and academy ruins.......Playing CoTV for zero is not perfect but it does make it harder for your opponent to willy nilly ee your moxes. By playing coTV for zero you may cause your opponent to subconsiously disregard EE as an option even though that may not be the case. Power perceived is power achieved. There will always be ways around every play. That is why magic is great.
Classic is an amazing format that can be played without the truly expensive cards.....I hope to make this a regular column. I want to grow the Classic format player base. A bigger player base means more events and support for the players. A truly win-win situation.
This is a very needed article for the Classic format. There's a lot of 'expense fears' around Classic, some founded, some are exaggerated. This is a good introduction to the format that is pretty strong.
You can't transmute, can't play activated abilities, can't unearth, cycle, forecast, can't pay upkeep costs. It is good. It is not a panacea.Some decks really don't need it, such as tight two-color builds.
I have tested AIG a bit too and I added Cloundthresher and Progenitus right away. I took out Primalcrux and Deity of Scars for them. Deity felt nothing great right away. Primalcrux will just make you want to overextend. It's very similar to Deus of Calamity but it costs 1 more, doesn't have the LD and might be bigger. The only time I missed Primalcrux was in the mirror. But Deus hasn't been good enough too. I also added 1 Thornling to the main by taking out 1 Impromptu Raid. Sure Raid is amazing against 5cc but Raid is a dead draw after the first. Maybe 3 in the main and 1 in the site against 5cc. About Thornling: I've been thinking it would be a good addition and could replace Deus/Primalcrux. It tramples, it can have haste, and it survives WoG which anything else in the deck does. I stopped testing AIG but I had this list:
SB:
3 Thornling
4 Guttural Response
4 Oversoul of Dusk
1 Impromptu Raid
3 Pithing Needle (I never tested enough to see if they were needed but I faced a few planeswalkers decks where it was nice)
If I was to get back to testing this I would take all 4 deus out and add 3 Thornling and 1 Oversoul. Now with 4 SB slots I could had 4 Platinum Angel. And maybe play Primal Command over Needle but it would need more testing.
I think Pillar should still be an auto-include, despite the activation negatives. It's only four of your lands and it's pretty much the perfect land for the format when it comes to casting.
so uhhm i lost to progenitus...it sucks...and uhhm impromptu raid is bad...i guess its kinda needed but its lame losing to this deck. taking 20 from progenitus is really lame. have fun crushing peoples dreams at regionals it'll be funny to watch other people walk away from the table in pure disgust being beaten by progenitus as i was.
Cloudthresher looks like the best card in the deck by far. Spectral Procession, Scion of Oona, and your enemy Sower of Temptation are all big right now, so it is the right time for Cloudthresher.
I also really think the deck needs Treetops, for the Mosswort Bridge and because they are Treetops.
I like Garruk Wildspeaker a lot, just so you can make three tokens. Or even make one and get attacked. One fourth of your deck is big creatures, so you can reasonably spend 16 mana to get your first creature from Impromptu Raid (4 plus four activations). Something like Garruk, it can accelerate a Woodfall Primus, but other times it can still do a job.
Big mana spells are kind of nice in Extended or Legacy, where all the counters are casting cost-sensitive. In Standard I keep wanting to mix in Kitchen Finks or to start splashing removal or something.
What I think is a really nice engine is Mosswort Bridge, Devoted Druid, Cloudthresher. I would put Oversoul of Dusk main and start going from there.
And Finally...
A brief note about lands: You may have noticed some of the lands in the above decks are... subpar. No Pillar of the Paruns, Exotic Orchard or Reflecting Pool, cards like Rupture Spire, Shimmering Grotto or Mirrodin's Core in their stead. This is purely a matter of cost: When I can afford better 5-color lands, I'll play with them and incorporate them into my decks. Feel free to adjust the land bases of any of the decks here to match what you have available: After all, I'll be doing the same in due course.
Just a thought...
Maybe you should stop whining about your bad luck and focus on the mistakes that are preventing you from winning. Yes, it is a game of skill and luck, and yes, you need both to win at magic, but if you keep blaming your losses on luck then you are not going to learn anything from it. You are a good player, but you play awful decks, support bad strategies and write about your bad beats all the time and refuse to take your beats and move on like all the people around you.
I really don't want to always seem negative but nothing I say ever sinks in, nice article, good to see you are expressing opinions (though i disagree with nearly all of them), but take my advice, and don't respond negatively this time :D
RogueEffect: I found the deck to be very powerful and also the surprise factor. Alot of opponents initially assumed I was playing the 'basic' list and would let me resolve Dramatic Entrance etc until a Progenitus hit then it was over much faster. The new list has alot more power and resilience towards the metagame. The surprise factor doesn't affect much as this deck is being played more and more and I can see this gaining ground in the current format once it wins a significant tournament which it can easily do. My struggles were mostly in making decisions to mulligan efficiently and not overextend versus certain decks. The deck itself has a very consistent threat base although your draws will determine if you win or lose the match pretty quickly and if you know the matchup already then you can base keeping hands on that.
LOurs: Pithing Needle was testing quite heavily with my initial build yet in all honest the threats you indicated or either way to slow or don't stop me at all from bashing face with the threats given. This deck mains problems are Cryptic Command solely as they can tap your team and then play around other threats. This being said is why I put 4x Gutteral Response side to deal with this and if your a decent player you can utilize the end of turn Impromptu Raid trick and make them tap you down then proceed to Impromptu Riad again until your opponent is dead. Standard is much different most formats and Pithing Needle versus this deck is particularly very good and quite bad if it hits yet minimizing your threats for no reasons isn't such a legitimate option in my eyes. I will try my best to obtain more information and to expand the content of my articles yet this deck has been through alot of playtesting and tweaking to get to this point although I appreciate your suggestions.
tumultuous: I apologize for the minimal game reports although I can guarantee you this deck has been throguh extensive playtesting and is very straight forward. This deck has a very good game versus 5CC and Faeries and I intend for Alara Reborn to affect the metagame which I won't mind to the current spoiled cards as Meddling Mage and the new Cranial Extraction won't affect this deck much as it is very aggressive. Impromptu Raid has been insane and is probably one of the most underrated cards in the format at the moment if left out and not dealt with. It obviously has the luck factor yet you can easily play around it or put yoruself in a position to win without needing to hit 3-4 creatures with it in a single turn.
Feel free to comment and I will gladly respond, and thank you all for the comments.
You mentioned not being able to see other peoples rating but there is an easy way to get round this, add the person whose rating you want to see to your buddy list and problem solved, you can now see their rating
for about 2 months getting ready for the 5k in Indy a few weeks ago (Did not go.)
Raid is usually the best card you can have against 5cc if you can stick it early. If you can stick it late it's still pretty good against them, as unanswered a stream of threats will come out on their end step, beat face on your turn, and die on your end step.
I usually never say anything to my opponent unless they start trash talking. It's so annoying when they say OBV OBV OBV when I draw anything but a land. I usually reply casually with a WAH WAH WAH. That's when the fun starts. Hehe.
Thank you Danger for the comments. I do appreciate them. It will help me with further decks I would like to talk about. For the merfolk and even Elves! matchups maybe volcanic fallout (an instant uncounterable pyroclasm can help out). And in future articles I will make sure to hit every big match up! :-)
It's hard to pay colorless mana for EE when Magus of the Moon is out.
First gimli, I think if you want to tout Dragon Stompy as a budget deck, you had better go on to show how well it plays vs *at least* the decks you are likely to see in a Top 8.
How does it fare vs
- Merfolk (not well - you will probably not resolve Boil, and Aether Vial makes both Trinisphere and Chalice meaningless.)
- Pox? (not bad).
- Bant Aggro (practically an auto-loss)
- Elves! (Chalice and Trinishpere are good, but you still need to beat down because they will find 3 mana and they will grip and they will combo out)
- Zoo (not well)
What is bad about missing these types of decks is if someone follows your assertion that this deck will play well vs the meta, and goes on to face mostly decks it losses too (of which there are many), they will tend to think badly of your original assertion: That you don't need to spend money to win.
Personally, I don't think long term that if you were thinking about a deck that t is light an the wallet but heavy on beating on classic for a while, that this is the deck you will choose.
PS - if ANT is running Hurky'ls Recall, and can get at it, short of having pyroblast in your hand ready it spells certain doom if you haven't beat their life total to a pulp already. I've won this way numerous times in TP.
PPS - Boil is terrible. I'd rather run more Needles or Null Rods for Vial, Factory and Top. Though I guess that ups the cost, and Rods would hurt your Mox.
That is a true statement. In the CB deck I am currently playing with..the only colorless mana I have is singletons of wasteland and academy ruins.......Playing CoTV for zero is not perfect but it does make it harder for your opponent to willy nilly ee your moxes. By playing coTV for zero you may cause your opponent to subconsiously disregard EE as an option even though that may not be the case. Power perceived is power achieved. There will always be ways around every play. That is why magic is great.
CoTV for zero often won't protect your Chalices / Moxes. They can still play EE off a Mishra's Factory or other colorless mana to get around Chalice.
Classic is an amazing format that can be played without the truly expensive cards.....I hope to make this a regular column. I want to grow the Classic format player base. A bigger player base means more events and support for the players. A truly win-win situation.
This is a very needed article for the Classic format. There's a lot of 'expense fears' around Classic, some founded, some are exaggerated. This is a good introduction to the format that is pretty strong.
Thanks for this!
You can't transmute, can't play activated abilities, can't unearth, cycle, forecast, can't pay upkeep costs. It is good. It is not a panacea.Some decks really don't need it, such as tight two-color builds.
I have tested AIG a bit too and I added Cloundthresher and Progenitus right away. I took out Primalcrux and Deity of Scars for them. Deity felt nothing great right away. Primalcrux will just make you want to overextend. It's very similar to Deus of Calamity but it costs 1 more, doesn't have the LD and might be bigger. The only time I missed Primalcrux was in the mirror. But Deus hasn't been good enough too. I also added 1 Thornling to the main by taking out 1 Impromptu Raid. Sure Raid is amazing against 5cc but Raid is a dead draw after the first. Maybe 3 in the main and 1 in the site against 5cc. About Thornling: I've been thinking it would be a good addition and could replace Deus/Primalcrux. It tramples, it can have haste, and it survives WoG which anything else in the deck does. I stopped testing AIG but I had this list:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Woodfall Primus
4 Deus of Calamity
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Devoted Druid
4 Progenitus
4 Cloundthresher
4 Dramatic Entrance
4 Overgrowth
3 Impromptu Raid
1 Thornling
16 Forest
4 Mosswort Bridge
SB:
3 Thornling
4 Guttural Response
4 Oversoul of Dusk
1 Impromptu Raid
3 Pithing Needle (I never tested enough to see if they were needed but I faced a few planeswalkers decks where it was nice)
If I was to get back to testing this I would take all 4 deus out and add 3 Thornling and 1 Oversoul. Now with 4 SB slots I could had 4 Platinum Angel. And maybe play Primal Command over Needle but it would need more testing.
I think Pillar should still be an auto-include, despite the activation negatives. It's only four of your lands and it's pretty much the perfect land for the format when it comes to casting.
pillars don't let you activate abilities and some cards interact with basic land types so pillars don't have to be an auto include..
oh and i consider myself more than average thanks
so uhhm i lost to progenitus...it sucks...and uhhm impromptu raid is bad...i guess its kinda needed but its lame losing to this deck. taking 20 from progenitus is really lame. have fun crushing peoples dreams at regionals it'll be funny to watch other people walk away from the table in pure disgust being beaten by progenitus as i was.
Cloudthresher looks like the best card in the deck by far. Spectral Procession, Scion of Oona, and your enemy Sower of Temptation are all big right now, so it is the right time for Cloudthresher.
I also really think the deck needs Treetops, for the Mosswort Bridge and because they are Treetops.
I like Garruk Wildspeaker a lot, just so you can make three tokens. Or even make one and get attacked. One fourth of your deck is big creatures, so you can reasonably spend 16 mana to get your first creature from Impromptu Raid (4 plus four activations). Something like Garruk, it can accelerate a Woodfall Primus, but other times it can still do a job.
Big mana spells are kind of nice in Extended or Legacy, where all the counters are casting cost-sensitive. In Standard I keep wanting to mix in Kitchen Finks or to start splashing removal or something.
What I think is a really nice engine is Mosswort Bridge, Devoted Druid, Cloudthresher. I would put Oversoul of Dusk main and start going from there.
And Finally...
A brief note about lands: You may have noticed some of the lands in the above decks are... subpar. No Pillar of the Paruns, Exotic Orchard or Reflecting Pool, cards like Rupture Spire, Shimmering Grotto or Mirrodin's Core in their stead. This is purely a matter of cost: When I can afford better 5-color lands, I'll play with them and incorporate them into my decks. Feel free to adjust the land bases of any of the decks here to match what you have available: After all, I'll be doing the same in due course.
I don't comment every week, but I listen every week. Thanks guys.
"So...card prices this week. Meddling Mage, down to 20 tix. If you care to know why, Google "spoilers" and that's all I'll say about it."
lol. That pretty much says it right there. Was it worth skipping the first 8 minutes just to hear that? :P Also, the title of the article.
Just teasing. You guys rock.
And for what it's worth, on the thicker-skin / report-the-player debate, I'm on the report the guy side.
Why is Pillar of the Paruns not an auto 4 of in every deck?
Just a thought...
Maybe you should stop whining about your bad luck and focus on the mistakes that are preventing you from winning. Yes, it is a game of skill and luck, and yes, you need both to win at magic, but if you keep blaming your losses on luck then you are not going to learn anything from it. You are a good player, but you play awful decks, support bad strategies and write about your bad beats all the time and refuse to take your beats and move on like all the people around you.
I really don't want to always seem negative but nothing I say ever sinks in, nice article, good to see you are expressing opinions (though i disagree with nearly all of them), but take my advice, and don't respond negatively this time :D
People, you do not need to wait for Alara Reborn to talk about this format. Give it up!
Top notch article. Would you mind explaining to me how your deck works? Thanks a lot. Ill be on the lookout for more of your writing.
RogueEffect: I found the deck to be very powerful and also the surprise factor. Alot of opponents initially assumed I was playing the 'basic' list and would let me resolve Dramatic Entrance etc until a Progenitus hit then it was over much faster. The new list has alot more power and resilience towards the metagame. The surprise factor doesn't affect much as this deck is being played more and more and I can see this gaining ground in the current format once it wins a significant tournament which it can easily do. My struggles were mostly in making decisions to mulligan efficiently and not overextend versus certain decks. The deck itself has a very consistent threat base although your draws will determine if you win or lose the match pretty quickly and if you know the matchup already then you can base keeping hands on that.
LOurs: Pithing Needle was testing quite heavily with my initial build yet in all honest the threats you indicated or either way to slow or don't stop me at all from bashing face with the threats given. This deck mains problems are Cryptic Command solely as they can tap your team and then play around other threats. This being said is why I put 4x Gutteral Response side to deal with this and if your a decent player you can utilize the end of turn Impromptu Raid trick and make them tap you down then proceed to Impromptu Riad again until your opponent is dead. Standard is much different most formats and Pithing Needle versus this deck is particularly very good and quite bad if it hits yet minimizing your threats for no reasons isn't such a legitimate option in my eyes. I will try my best to obtain more information and to expand the content of my articles yet this deck has been through alot of playtesting and tweaking to get to this point although I appreciate your suggestions.
tumultuous: I apologize for the minimal game reports although I can guarantee you this deck has been throguh extensive playtesting and is very straight forward. This deck has a very good game versus 5CC and Faeries and I intend for Alara Reborn to affect the metagame which I won't mind to the current spoiled cards as Meddling Mage and the new Cranial Extraction won't affect this deck much as it is very aggressive. Impromptu Raid has been insane and is probably one of the most underrated cards in the format at the moment if left out and not dealt with. It obviously has the luck factor yet you can easily play around it or put yoruself in a position to win without needing to hit 3-4 creatures with it in a single turn.
Feel free to comment and I will gladly respond, and thank you all for the comments.
You mentioned not being able to see other peoples rating but there is an easy way to get round this, add the person whose rating you want to see to your buddy list and problem solved, you can now see their rating
Nice article, can't wait for this format to get into swing...but am I the only one dusting off Teeg for my Naya build?
for about 2 months getting ready for the 5k in Indy a few weeks ago (Did not go.)
Raid is usually the best card you can have against 5cc if you can stick it early. If you can stick it late it's still pretty good against them, as unanswered a stream of threats will come out on their end step, beat face on your turn, and die on your end step.
I endorse raid!
He got pissed off because you drew a mountain?
Wah? What a donk you are lol.
I usually never say anything to my opponent unless they start trash talking. It's so annoying when they say OBV OBV OBV when I draw anything but a land. I usually reply casually with a WAH WAH WAH. That's when the fun starts. Hehe.