I do still prefer v2, though I recognize the improvements of v3. There is one reason I will perfer v2 over v3 until it is fixed: the interface. It's terrible, that's all there is to say.
Actually, whiffy, we're at the point in Tempest drafts where R/B is not the best color combination; too many people know that's what they should be drafting.
You're spot on with your assessment about blue. Because it's so underdrafted it's usually possible to pick up many of the necessary card to make the deck work. You can do what Pete did and pair it with Red or Black and end up with a strong deck (black is so deep that it can usually support about 1/2 the table).
You can also go Blue/White for an aggro-ish flyer deck but that archetype is very dependent on pulling the exact cards necessary to make the deck work.
It's possible, if you see the right cards, to make a respectable Green/x deck in Tempest, but you have to be on the lookout for it to happen.
Grab the 'block as though they had shadow' cards, grab the accelerants (rampant, elf, etc), grab the beef (huh, huh... he said 'grab the beef'), and grab card advantage (either splash for blue card draw or black removal or red removal).
I decided to try a green ramp deck after nabbing a first pick foil verdant force. I rode those beastly green monsters to the finals, which was a surprise to myself and probably my opponents as well. I rarely ever drew my Force, but the rootbreakers, rootwallas, and other green beef carried me a long way
There really are a lot of potential deck types in Tempest, but they're not all very apparent But opening a rolling thunder is almost always enough to push red into a deck... and you almost always can open one...
(for some reason, I can't set a rating for this article, it's locked at "three". I think this was better than that, but I have no idea how to make it use a different rating right now...)
I'm guessing that you were around for V2, which for some reason is being viewed through rose colored glasses now.
If you were, you know that people keep saying how much better it was, now that we have V3. They evidently don't remember the need to lock the installer down to a single core. Or the random crashes when viewing someone's information. Or the insanity of trying a Vista installation.
There are warts left on V3, but if/when we get the big pieces fixed we won't be any worse off than we were in V2. In fact, we'll probably be in a better position thanks to the improvements they've put into V3 (Like Pauper, etc).
I understand that you still (obviously) hate V3. Good on ya. In point of fact, there's a LOT that still irks me about the game as well. Here's the difference though. I don't dwell on the bad. I acknowldge it, of course, but I don't let the negatives completely shape my perception. There's good things in there as well.
You mention clan chat. Sadly, as long as there are clan limits, clan chat is easy to out-grow. I've been in a couple multi-chapter clans which had to rely on external chat rooms to communicate. Clan chat wouldn't be used, even if it did work. Yeah, it's irritating and I don't know how on earth they can't make it work right. But as far as 'warts' go, it's minor one.
I think that i have to go against conventional wisdom here with your asertation of r/b being the best combo. Yes they have the individual strongest removal by a mile but the fact that it is so heavily drafed will ussaly dilute even the best draft as you have to fight through 2-3 other players for your deck.
I have much like you done an unreasonable amount of ttt drafts and have come to find that while green which is relativly weak is consistently underdrafted allowing you to pick up so many insane cards late in a pak. But green kinda sucks and r and black are over drafted so what do you do? Draft blue! it is so gosh darn good even if there is another heavy drafter. You see blue has some really strong defensive elements and there not always even the best cards in the color.
Powersink counterspell turtle hunter cashe time ebb and mistfolk are a great base a control deck and besides turtle which seems to get picked a tad too high you can always get these cards. Blue is really heavy on the 3 drop so you use green to get a myriad of diff 2 power 2 drops and great beaters at 4 and 5 drops. you will ussaly avoid evenicars justice and lessen the effect of rolling thunder with this combo.
oh and btw capsize is almost always the right pick and i go as far as 1st picking it any of the 3 packs no matter the combonation i have drafted as of yet since it is such a powerful card.
Great article as always. Not only is Night of Souls' Betrayal really good againt the Faerie tokens, but the real reason its popular in Extended right now is that it bascially shuts off LSV's Elves deck from PT Berlin, and so it was around a lot at Worlds. Now that the Holidays are over, I'm gonna get my Worlds wrap up article done, and talk about it in there.
Good edition, as always. Liked the first Top 5, especially.
Playing 100 and Pauper has definitely reinvigorated my enjoyment of the game. I'm concerned about the 100 queues, as well, especially since I consider it to be the best measure of a deckbuilder's prowess.
Thunderbolt seems like a really intriguing jump to me.
I had a pre-Tempest casual deck where the only rare was Summoner's Pact. I used Virulent Sliver and Two-Headed Sliver to force through poison counters. I also had the common slivercycler in there to make sure I had my Virulent Slivers. (And the Fires sliver. That's basically the whole deck right there.) But your deck is so much better. And pauper legal!
I'm one of the people guilty of making 42 bolts / 18 lands so popular in pauper. But if a deck like this can be fun and competitive then maybe more red players will switch just because they're bored.
@whiffy and spg: I will work on a match-up and meta article. The deck definitely has game.
@lythand: The Muscle Slivers are a big part of this deck, as you get eight +1/+1 instead of four, which makes a huge difference. In my testing with slivers, I haven't really needed the flying for the horde you get with blue, BUT there's definitely something to be said for the control element blue can add instead. If a deck manages to slow down G/W it's often tough to win the long game, where being blue can help.
@ham: I'm not sure how prevalent storm is in Peasant, but Holy Light is an absolute back breaker against Empty the Warrens. And it works very well against black decks with small creatures and the occasional red deck with Martyrs, etc.
I originally had Sigil Blessing in the deck and it's amazing. Not only can it be a combat trick that saves a guy and pushes more damage through from non-blocked attackers, but when the opponent decides not to block, whether due to flanking or other reasons, Sigil Blessing can turn into the Anti-Time Walk for your oppoent, losing a whole turn because of all the damage you pour through. That said, there are tons of red decks floating around Pauper at the moment and the card advantage that Thrill provides tends to be a bit better at the moment. Sigil makes for more explosive, faster wins, but Thrill keeps you going. It's a tough choice. We had a small debate about Thrill/Sigil at PDC and I think I might agree with the Thrill for the time being.
I really wish Harmonic were a common, the deck would be nuts. But alas. Affinity does not tend to be a problem, though, thanks to flanking. And yes, slivers are very strong in common-based formats. I think this is the current deck to beat in Pauper.
I read Peter Jahns article on controle slivers, which isn't too far off this deck. I tried to make that deck, but it ended up being something closer to this. My version though does run the three colors of Blue White and a splash of green. Due mostly to the fact it is hard to get the muscle slivers. Once I get them, the deck will change probably to this. Until then it is very control oriented..
I've been working on a Peasant Slivers (same premise, but +5 uncommons).
I like the idea of the Holy Light. I hadn't remembered that card, I may have to look into it.
Thrill of the Hunt is fantastic, and I'm thinking about trying out Sigil Blessing at some point as we're a swarm-y deck... Might be worth trying.
I don't know if it's worth it for PDC, but I've been loving the wizard-cycler card and a few 'silver bullet' slivers for certain match-ups. I think it's not worth it in PDC as you can't search up a Root Sliver or Harmonic Sliver for MUC/Affinity match-ups, respectively. You can, however, cycle it into a Nameless Inversion... but then you have to run black (usually via Terramorphic Expanse->Swamp... but I digress)
I'm finding that Slivers are surprisingly strong in the common based formats so far. They can stay out of reach of the normal board sweepers and can do some damage very fast.
very nice, although i am unsure of the meta and if ill ever find my self in it this article was well thought out and written. A nice read to say the least.
I appreciate your comments. I would like it very much if you psoted your list here for comparison. I stand by my list at the time of writing, as my testing had yielded positive results with the deck. A few points I want to address: First, Firebolt vs Temper: I've tried both and I like Firebolt more. However, from your post I can infer that you run a deck that is much more focused on winning fast. My build was tested with a slightly slower meta in mind and performed well in that scenario. If I was expecting an overwhelming about of Storm and Burn (like in a 4 man) I would agree with speeding up the list some. I also stand by the sideboard as again, my testing had yielded good results. I hate Bonesplitter in aggressive decks. It is a miserable top deck a significant amount of the time. Whenever I've drawn one, I've wanted it to be a creature or a spell. This may be a matter of personal preference but I stand by it. I find the turn one play tbe very important and I do no feel the benefit of running Expanse and Plains is neccessary or even worth the potential for bad
All that being said, I do not feel there is one best way to build the deck (as seen, people have been succeeding with multiple different builds). Again, I ask you to post yours for comparision and discussion.
Thanks! That's correct. The PREs run Pauper in every flavor including Standard, Extended, and Classic. If you want to try something other than Pauper Classic drop on by!
mr josh, how bout leveling some of that blame on me as the writer? Your a busy guy having to do most or all of the articles.
To everyone else apparently my gramatical and spelling errors are awful enough to solicit almost 20 responses. Im sorry. I really enjoy writing and this article may have been rushed a bit as halfway through it other necro articles started popping up. I swear that the next article is miles ahead in terms of errors (hopefully the content is just as good or better) im very close to the end and i have been doing my best to pre edit be fore submission.
This is a great article and covers the most powerful classic deck at the moment. I think that the critics dont truely appreciate the amount of time that is required to write an article, especially when decklists have to be edited etc - Yes there are a few typos in the article but dont let this distract from the EXCELLENT content from one of the best players of Classic. Whiffy spends a lot of time and effort to bring top quality articles and I for one would rather he spent his precious time to deliver top level content than agonize over removing all the trivial typos.
People are far to quick to attack the articles that are published here on Puremtgo without appreciating that these articles are written by dedicated players/fans of the game for the general MTGO audience for the love of the game.
Good job Whiffy! I for one enjoyed this and recognise it as the 5 star article it truely is!
Nice article as usual Hammy
BTW, are the forums down?
I do still prefer v2, though I recognize the improvements of v3. There is one reason I will perfer v2 over v3 until it is fixed: the interface. It's terrible, that's all there is to say.
Actually, whiffy, we're at the point in Tempest drafts where R/B is not the best color combination; too many people know that's what they should be drafting.
You're spot on with your assessment about blue. Because it's so underdrafted it's usually possible to pick up many of the necessary card to make the deck work. You can do what Pete did and pair it with Red or Black and end up with a strong deck (black is so deep that it can usually support about 1/2 the table).
You can also go Blue/White for an aggro-ish flyer deck but that archetype is very dependent on pulling the exact cards necessary to make the deck work.
Regarding Green/x decks.
It's possible, if you see the right cards, to make a respectable Green/x deck in Tempest, but you have to be on the lookout for it to happen.
Grab the 'block as though they had shadow' cards, grab the accelerants (rampant, elf, etc), grab the beef (huh, huh... he said 'grab the beef'), and grab card advantage (either splash for blue card draw or black removal or red removal).
I decided to try a green ramp deck after nabbing a first pick foil verdant force. I rode those beastly green monsters to the finals, which was a surprise to myself and probably my opponents as well. I rarely ever drew my Force, but the rootbreakers, rootwallas, and other green beef carried me a long way
There really are a lot of potential deck types in Tempest, but they're not all very apparent But opening a rolling thunder is almost always enough to push red into a deck... and you almost always can open one...
(for some reason, I can't set a rating for this article, it's locked at "three". I think this was better than that, but I have no idea how to make it use a different rating right now...)
I'm guessing that you were around for V2, which for some reason is being viewed through rose colored glasses now.
If you were, you know that people keep saying how much better it was, now that we have V3. They evidently don't remember the need to lock the installer down to a single core. Or the random crashes when viewing someone's information. Or the insanity of trying a Vista installation.
There are warts left on V3, but if/when we get the big pieces fixed we won't be any worse off than we were in V2. In fact, we'll probably be in a better position thanks to the improvements they've put into V3 (Like Pauper, etc).
I understand that you still (obviously) hate V3. Good on ya. In point of fact, there's a LOT that still irks me about the game as well. Here's the difference though. I don't dwell on the bad. I acknowldge it, of course, but I don't let the negatives completely shape my perception. There's good things in there as well.
You mention clan chat. Sadly, as long as there are clan limits, clan chat is easy to out-grow. I've been in a couple multi-chapter clans which had to rely on external chat rooms to communicate. Clan chat wouldn't be used, even if it did work. Yeah, it's irritating and I don't know how on earth they can't make it work right. But as far as 'warts' go, it's minor one.
I think that i have to go against conventional wisdom here with your asertation of r/b being the best combo. Yes they have the individual strongest removal by a mile but the fact that it is so heavily drafed will ussaly dilute even the best draft as you have to fight through 2-3 other players for your deck.
I have much like you done an unreasonable amount of ttt drafts and have come to find that while green which is relativly weak is consistently underdrafted allowing you to pick up so many insane cards late in a pak. But green kinda sucks and r and black are over drafted so what do you do? Draft blue! it is so gosh darn good even if there is another heavy drafter. You see blue has some really strong defensive elements and there not always even the best cards in the color.
Powersink
counterspell
turtle
hunter
cashe
time ebb
and mistfolk are a great base a control deck and besides turtle which seems to get picked a tad too high you can always get these cards. Blue is really heavy on the 3 drop so you use green to get a myriad of diff 2 power 2 drops and great beaters at 4 and 5 drops. you will ussaly avoid evenicars justice and lessen the effect of rolling thunder with this combo.
oh and btw capsize is almost always the right pick and i go as far as 1st picking it any of the 3 packs no matter the combonation i have drafted as of yet since it is such a powerful card.
Hey Hammy,
Great article as always. Not only is Night of Souls' Betrayal really good againt the Faerie tokens, but the real reason its popular in Extended right now is that it bascially shuts off LSV's Elves deck from PT Berlin, and so it was around a lot at Worlds. Now that the Holidays are over, I'm gonna get my Worlds wrap up article done, and talk about it in there.
Not before clan chat and all those other tiny bugs a competent developing team could fix in a month are taken care of...
Good edition, as always. Liked the first Top 5, especially.
Playing 100 and Pauper has definitely reinvigorated my enjoyment of the game. I'm concerned about the 100 queues, as well, especially since I consider it to be the best measure of a deckbuilder's prowess.
Thunderbolt seems like a really intriguing jump to me.
I had a pre-Tempest casual deck where the only rare was Summoner's Pact. I used Virulent Sliver and Two-Headed Sliver to force through poison counters. I also had the common slivercycler in there to make sure I had my Virulent Slivers. (And the Fires sliver. That's basically the whole deck right there.) But your deck is so much better. And pauper legal!
I'm one of the people guilty of making 42 bolts / 18 lands so popular in pauper. But if a deck like this can be fun and competitive then maybe more red players will switch just because they're bored.
Thanks to everyone for the comments and ideas.
@whiffy and spg: I will work on a match-up and meta article. The deck definitely has game.
@lythand: The Muscle Slivers are a big part of this deck, as you get eight +1/+1 instead of four, which makes a huge difference. In my testing with slivers, I haven't really needed the flying for the horde you get with blue, BUT there's definitely something to be said for the control element blue can add instead. If a deck manages to slow down G/W it's often tough to win the long game, where being blue can help.
@ham: I'm not sure how prevalent storm is in Peasant, but Holy Light is an absolute back breaker against Empty the Warrens. And it works very well against black decks with small creatures and the occasional red deck with Martyrs, etc.
I originally had Sigil Blessing in the deck and it's amazing. Not only can it be a combat trick that saves a guy and pushes more damage through from non-blocked attackers, but when the opponent decides not to block, whether due to flanking or other reasons, Sigil Blessing can turn into the Anti-Time Walk for your oppoent, losing a whole turn because of all the damage you pour through. That said, there are tons of red decks floating around Pauper at the moment and the card advantage that Thrill provides tends to be a bit better at the moment. Sigil makes for more explosive, faster wins, but Thrill keeps you going. It's a tough choice. We had a small debate about Thrill/Sigil at PDC and I think I might agree with the Thrill for the time being.
I really wish Harmonic were a common, the deck would be nuts. But alas. Affinity does not tend to be a problem, though, thanks to flanking. And yes, slivers are very strong in common-based formats. I think this is the current deck to beat in Pauper.
I read Peter Jahns article on controle slivers, which isn't too far off this deck. I tried to make that deck, but it ended up being something closer to this. My version though does run the three colors of Blue White and a splash of green. Due mostly to the fact it is hard to get the muscle slivers. Once I get them, the deck will change probably to this. Until then it is very control oriented..
I always had asoft spot for Slivers
I've been working on a Peasant Slivers (same premise, but +5 uncommons).
I like the idea of the Holy Light. I hadn't remembered that card, I may have to look into it.
Thrill of the Hunt is fantastic, and I'm thinking about trying out Sigil Blessing at some point as we're a swarm-y deck... Might be worth trying.
I don't know if it's worth it for PDC, but I've been loving the wizard-cycler card and a few 'silver bullet' slivers for certain match-ups. I think it's not worth it in PDC as you can't search up a Root Sliver or Harmonic Sliver for MUC/Affinity match-ups, respectively. You can, however, cycle it into a Nameless Inversion... but then you have to run black (usually via Terramorphic Expanse->Swamp... but I digress)
I'm finding that Slivers are surprisingly strong in the common based formats so far. They can stay out of reach of the normal board sweepers and can do some damage very fast.
Cool article - I'd love to read a followup with strategies and sideboad plans against some of the top decks in the format. Keep up the good work!
very nice, although i am unsure of the meta and if ill ever find my self in it this article was well thought out and written. A nice read to say the least.
Stone Rain is not useless against Combo.
I appreciate your comments. I would like it very much if you psoted your list here for comparison. I stand by my list at the time of writing, as my testing had yielded positive results with the deck. A few points I want to address:
First, Firebolt vs Temper: I've tried both and I like Firebolt more. However, from your post I can infer that you run a deck that is much more focused on winning fast. My build was tested with a slightly slower meta in mind and performed well in that scenario. If I was expecting an overwhelming about of Storm and Burn (like in a 4 man) I would agree with speeding up the list some. I also stand by the sideboard as again, my testing had yielded good results.
I hate Bonesplitter in aggressive decks. It is a miserable top deck a significant amount of the time. Whenever I've drawn one, I've wanted it to be a creature or a spell. This may be a matter of personal preference but I stand by it.
I find the turn one play tbe very important and I do no feel the benefit of running Expanse and Plains is neccessary or even worth the potential for bad
All that being said, I do not feel there is one best way to build the deck (as seen, people have been succeeding with multiple different builds). Again, I ask you to post yours for comparision and discussion.
I likw the analysis of the deck, keep it up.
Thanks! That's correct. The PREs run Pauper in every flavor including Standard, Extended, and Classic. If you want to try something other than Pauper Classic drop on by!
Re: no Mana Drain. Can you post your name? I expect Mana Drain on MTGO either in 9 months, or 21 months (Med3 or Med4).
In point of fact, Worth has mentioned it as something he's willing to see in a MED set at some piont, and I think he even tried to get it into MED2.
thx uth and i look forward to the new wisdom if it happenes as i know that your really busy and there were only what 3 or 4 pe's?
mr josh, how bout leveling some of that blame on me as the writer? Your a busy guy having to do most or all of the articles.
To everyone else apparently my gramatical and spelling errors are awful enough to solicit almost 20 responses. Im sorry. I really enjoy writing and this article may have been rushed a bit as halfway through it other necro articles started popping up. I swear that the next article is miles ahead in terms of errors (hopefully the content is just as good or better) im very close to the end and i have been doing my best to pre edit be fore submission.
This was a player run event, right? Pauper, but standard, not classic?
Congratulations! And that was fun to read. Those Pilferers look like a beating.
This is a great article and covers the most powerful classic deck at the moment. I think that the critics dont truely appreciate the amount of time that is required to write an article, especially when decklists have to be edited etc - Yes there are a few typos in the article but dont let this distract from the EXCELLENT content from one of the best players of Classic. Whiffy spends a lot of time and effort to bring top quality articles and I for one would rather he spent his precious time to deliver top level content than agonize over removing all the trivial typos.
People are far to quick to attack the articles that are published here on Puremtgo without appreciating that these articles are written by dedicated players/fans of the game for the general MTGO audience for the love of the game.
Good job Whiffy! I for one enjoyed this and recognise it as the 5 star article it truely is!