Imho the layout looks more like a work in progress than something to be published. This and some weird typing stuff (writing "1st" instead of "first", wild switching between capitals for card names, general typing errors) made it hard to read.
I recently came aware of there being no editor for the articles published here, which makes one wonder why this article is kinda dated already, but well at least the content was solid.
I've played RG for a long time, and I've had a fairly good tournament record with it. Hence when I heard about pauper, I threw it together on MODO and got to somewhere between 1810 and 1830 with it after about 50 matches. Because of that I read this article, and I honestly feel that your list is very poor, and I disagree with some of the conclusions you've listed. (keep in mind I do not ever play casual; only sanctioned so I may have a different context to interpret matchups in).
Anyhow here are my primary criticisms to your post> Main.
1) Rootwalla should be a 4 off without question.
2) Fiery temper is better than firebolt. I do not run gathan raiders in my list, and it still is.
3) Terramorphic expanse+1 plains (for nactal) plus basics is a much better mana base.
4) Ripclan crasher is not very good. It's either a winmore, or it sits around and sucks. There are much better creatures. I run 2 tin street holligans main (basically in his spot) and they are almost always equal or better.
5) You do not have bone splitters. (I use 3). Amongst other things; bonesplitter is the only thing which makes crasher playable, and it's also one of the things which gives this deck so much strength.
6) I also do not run gather raiders in my main despite having 8 madness spells (I think it's too slow), and I play 2 random granger guildmages, but both of those are more unconventional approaches I learned through experience so that's not as much of a critque.
Overall the main is not very strong and will lose to any tuned list.
Sideboard:
1) Wickerbough Elder is infinitely worse than ancient grudge. There are 0 enchantments in this format which matter (except for armadillo cloak which is almost never played, and quite easy to beat if you play decently).
2) Matyr of ashes is one of the most important sideboard cards in the format. There should be 4 not 2.
3) Pyroblast is a decent card (both for MUC, random decks with trinket mage and mull drifter, and combo), but when I ended up cutting my 16th sb card, it got yanked-hence I find it quite odd it's the one thing you actually give 4 slots to.
4) Stone rain is useless against combo.
5) Tin Street Hooligan should be maindeck.
6) You have nothing for mono red burn (which is a large part of the real format).
Matchup analysis:
"However, if that field features Orzhov aggro strategies, be wary as their removal can spell problems for you- Pillory of the Sleepless can be a bad beat in game one."
This is a bad deck you will never run into against good players, so if this composes your field you are playing in the wrong place.
Affinity: Your list has at best a 30% against affinity; not a "good matchup".
Life gain mono white junk: Contrary to popular belief, it you play well and have a properly built list, rg will 80% of the matches here.
Mono Black: your deck has pretty much an autoloss here.
Mono blue: Your curve is too high to be favored here.
Red Green Aggro is a very misunderstood archtype, and at least you're not making the mistake of running sakura tribe elders maindeck. However your list still needs a lot of work, and if people run it they will be left with the false impression red green is bad for pauper and never try it again. If you have a well built list, it will beat everything besides mono black (which works out to be a very weird matchup since the games are always extremely close, but rg tends to lose g3 by a razor thin margin most of the time). I'm 14-1 against storm I believe, so at the very least you need to sharpen up your deck to help there.
The biggest issue I see overall with the deck's design is that it's just too slow and clunky. By sacrificing that, you effectively kill red greens ability to win over half it's matches. However, I do believe that properly built RG is far and away the best deck in the format (provided this is not a lot of mono black).
Heck, I'd rather have a Caste Sorc at 2 mana in this deck, at least he's got exalted.
That extra 1/1 isn't going to make any real difference on defense, as anything you'd bother blocking with him is going to be a chump block anyway, and on offense the sorc is just as good.
Yeah the argument can definitely be made against Mana Drain when you reference the theory behind what a counterspell should be (an inherently protective tool).
Mana Drain. And that's an easy one. FOW is the best protective counter ever, but Mana Drain typically wins you the game when you resolve it. Of course you really could just call them 1a and 1b and be more accurate.
I think you're right about Meddling Mage for Standstill. I was so crazy paranoid about winning the card advantage war, that I think it clouded my judgement a bit.
i don't think anything should be banned at all right now in std.
i rather think that the current environment is too much based on creatures that it is mostly no good idea to run naturalizes/wispmares etc mainboard just to deal with one enchantment, in this case bitterblossom. it seems to me that if more playworthy enchantments/non-creautures would be around, then bitterblossom would be not as much of a problem... was that understandable? :)
i think there are just too few good non-creature cards (when planeswalkers only don't seem to work sooooo good either) around and that seems to me to be the biggest problem of the blossom-metagame as answers for that one card are just not reseanable to be played main.
You're very humble about your success. So basically: "Last week I played the top combo deck. But this week I'm playing my own build of Fish because I actually want to play Magic and see some decks, not just win for free." hehehe.
Your round 4 game was awesome! So was your top 8. I know nothing about the format so I have nothing to contribute.
so i think the deck is well built and has a way to get over on most of the decks youll see. as far as meddling mage. against me you named standstill twice when you were ahead. a better spell would have been stp. the sb looks good except for disenchant.
you maye wanna make a lil more hate for dredge or affinaty in your board.
The main problem with all the mono W builds is they almost always end up as weaker Naya decks. They almost never -need- the 3rd color until turn 5 and most builds now run Druid of the Anima anyway (which nobody except Jund can afford to spend removal on sadly). I mean at least your smart enough to run quads of every really good card (elsie, angel & sigil), so you've definitely got a 1-up on the average ABC player. Then again most people still like Wooly Thoctar... sooo...
Anyway, I'd consider Angelsong in the board. It tends to blow people out in the mirror and the same with most Naya opponents. I know some of this may sound sort of weird, because I used to agree with people on the whole consistent mana versus extra power thing, but getting access to multiple Planeswalkers or some card advantage donk is just too good in this format. I'm all for variety though and I totally agree about the easy money aspect. I've made T8 of 5 of the daily events over the past month or so despite only playing in 1-2 aweek, due to work, with like 4 different decks.
The main problem with all the mono W builds is they almost always end up as weaker Naya decks. They almost never -need- the 3rd color until turn 5 and most builds now run Druid of the Anima anyway (which nobody except Jund can afford to spend removal on sadly). I mean at least your smart enough to run quads of every really good card (elsie, angel & sigil), so you've definitely got a 1-up on the average ABC player. Then again most people still like Wooly Thoctar... sooo...
Anyway, I'd consider Angelsong in the board. It tends to blow people out in the mirror and the same with most Naya opponents. I know some of this may sound sort of weird, because I used to agree with people on the whole consistent mana versus extra power thing, but getting access to multiple Planeswalkers or some card advantage donk is just too good in this format. I'm all for variety though and I totally agree about the easy money aspect. I've made T8 of 5 of the daily events over the past month or so despite only playing in 1-2 aweek, due to work, with like 4 different decks.
If red hates blue so much, then why is it so much fun to Clone a Shivan Dragon?
I laughed pretty hard. This should be the flavor text on something! It kind of sounds like flavor text. But on what though? I could imagine the Goblin Flectomancer saying that, maybe. ... Oops. Sorry.
I'm waiting until they restrict Necropotence before I buy mine. If it's not broken in the current format then it will be after a few more sets.
Nice article. I like that you tried out necro and even based it off my pe list. Your absolutly right about daze. But i think your crazy to play petal over mox. Yes there is the card disadvantage but its permanent mana, and in a format with stifles and wastelands your meger 13 land count wont cut the mustard on a slow draw or one in which they countered your turn 1/ turn 2 necro. They are a nice plus for stalker though but i feel that over all mox is more important then petal.
at 13 mana dont be surprised if you find yourself wanting an extra land or 4th ponder, especially after you have to mullagain great hands that are manaless. the vamp will prolly makes its way out as if your like me youd rather draw 17-18 cards turn 1/2 not 14-16.
Actually, tokens do trigger Grave Pact according to the rules. They go to the graveyard as normal, and then since they're not in play, cease to exist as a state-based effect.
But that means they still trigger "when... put into a graveyard" triggers.
Tokens DO hit the graveyard; they are removed from the game after they hit the graveyard as a state-based effect, but since they are distroyed, they do in fact activate "into graveyard from play" triggers. The war-pride tokens are removed by the Nacatl's effect at end of turn, but sacrificing them or destroying them will activate Grave-pact, ect.
I thought I was the one who said that... If I have a brainstorm/ponder and a consultation, and I don't need Necro RIGHT NOW, I'll play the draw spell.
Necro'ing for 18 and not getting any soul spikes is the other way that deck can make you lose. And you ran into both in the same match... ouch.
Random anecdote: I once played consultation for necro early on against a dredge deck, and lost all my library but 16 cards. Among the cards removed were 2 of my 4 soul spikes and all 3 of my tendrils.
I necro'd for the remaining 16, played the other two spikes, and left myself with 2 Force of Will, 3 Daze, my second land, and a Tombstalker.
My opponent had a horrible draw, and I won with stalker beats.
I play casual, so don't expect any of this to work in a tournament or anything, but I enjoy running a Raksha Golden Cub(with lightning greaves and a Shikari out), and/or a good ol' fashioned Coat of Arms, so each Nacatl is it's own destructive force. Predatory Focus is also game-breaking, since you'd need 6 mana for the cats anyway. Again, these are too mana-heavy for any super-competative play, but I have run toe-to-toe against many good decks; and for something as simple as a Cat deck, most of my friends fear it
RG War-Pride can also use an anger in the grave and relentless assault; mana echos and skyshroud elf can make this go infinite; and goblin bombardment makes sure you get a little extra use out of the tokens. Sorry, I just like my old cards.
Imho the layout looks more like a work in progress than something to be published. This and some weird typing stuff (writing "1st" instead of "first", wild switching between capitals for card names, general typing errors) made it hard to read.
I recently came aware of there being no editor for the articles published here, which makes one wonder why this article is kinda dated already, but well at least the content was solid.
Really hard to compare the two spells. However in Vintage the only format where both are legal every blue deck plays FoW while only some play Drain.
I've played RG for a long time, and I've had a fairly good tournament record with it.
Hence when I heard about pauper, I threw it together on MODO and got to somewhere between 1810 and 1830 with it after about 50 matches. Because of that I read this article, and I honestly feel that your list is very poor, and I disagree with some of the conclusions you've listed. (keep in mind I do not ever play casual; only sanctioned so I may have a different context to interpret matchups in).
Anyhow here are my primary criticisms to your post>
Main.
1) Rootwalla should be a 4 off without question.
2) Fiery temper is better than firebolt. I do not run gathan raiders in my list, and it still is.
3) Terramorphic expanse+1 plains (for nactal) plus basics is a much better mana base.
4) Ripclan crasher is not very good. It's either a winmore, or it sits around and sucks. There are much better creatures. I run 2 tin street holligans main (basically in his spot) and they are almost always equal or better.
5) You do not have bone splitters. (I use 3). Amongst other things; bonesplitter is the only thing which makes crasher playable, and it's also one of the things which gives this deck so much strength.
6) I also do not run gather raiders in my main despite having 8 madness spells (I think it's too slow), and I play 2 random granger guildmages, but both of those are more unconventional approaches I learned through experience so that's not as much of a critque.
Overall the main is not very strong and will lose to any tuned list.
Sideboard:
1) Wickerbough Elder is infinitely worse than ancient grudge. There are 0 enchantments in this format which matter (except for armadillo cloak which is almost never played, and quite easy to beat if you play decently).
2) Matyr of ashes is one of the most important sideboard cards in the format. There should be 4 not 2.
3) Pyroblast is a decent card (both for MUC, random decks with trinket mage and mull drifter, and combo), but when I ended up cutting my 16th sb card, it got yanked-hence I find it quite odd it's the one thing you actually give 4 slots to.
4) Stone rain is useless against combo.
5) Tin Street Hooligan should be maindeck.
6) You have nothing for mono red burn (which is a large part of the real format).
Matchup analysis:
"However, if that field features Orzhov aggro strategies, be wary as their removal can spell problems for you- Pillory of the Sleepless can be a bad beat in game one."
This is a bad deck you will never run into against good players, so if this composes your field you are playing in the wrong place.
Affinity: Your list has at best a 30% against affinity; not a "good matchup".
Life gain mono white junk: Contrary to popular belief, it you play well and have a properly built list, rg will 80% of the matches here.
Mono Black: your deck has pretty much an autoloss here.
Mono blue: Your curve is too high to be favored here.
Red Green Aggro is a very misunderstood archtype, and at least you're not making the mistake of running sakura tribe elders maindeck. However your list still needs a lot of work, and if people run it they will be left with the false impression red green is bad for pauper and never try it again. If you have a well built list, it will beat everything besides mono black (which works out to be a very weird matchup since the games are always extremely close, but rg tends to lose g3 by a razor thin margin most of the time). I'm 14-1 against storm I believe, so at the very least you need to sharpen up your deck to help there.
The biggest issue I see overall with the deck's design is that it's just too slow and clunky. By sacrificing that, you effectively kill red greens ability to win over half it's matches. However, I do believe that properly built RG is far and away the best deck in the format (provided this is not a lot of mono black).
Sorrows Path on MTGO.
Why run the Skyward Eye in a mono-white deck?
Without his pump, he's just a vanilla bear.
Heck, I'd rather have a Caste Sorc at 2 mana in this deck, at least he's got exalted.
That extra 1/1 isn't going to make any real difference on defense, as anything you'd bother blocking with him is going to be a chump block anyway, and on offense the sorc is just as good.
I like your alternative.
Yeah the argument can definitely be made against Mana Drain when you reference the theory behind what a counterspell should be (an inherently protective tool).
I like the 1a and 1b thing Mr. anon!
Mana Drain. And that's an easy one. FOW is the best protective counter ever, but Mana Drain typically wins you the game when you resolve it. Of course you really could just call them 1a and 1b and be more accurate.
If force of will is the 2nd best counter ever printed...
What's the best counter? (and no matter what you say, I'll disagree :P )
Thanks for the kind words everyone
I think you're right about Meddling Mage for Standstill. I was so crazy paranoid about winning the card advantage war, that I think it clouded my judgement a bit.
i don't think anything should be banned at all right now in std.
i rather think that the current environment is too much based on creatures that it is mostly no good idea to run naturalizes/wispmares etc mainboard just to deal with one enchantment, in this case bitterblossom. it seems to me that if more playworthy enchantments/non-creautures would be around, then bitterblossom would be not as much of a problem... was that understandable? :)
i think there are just too few good non-creature cards (when planeswalkers only don't seem to work sooooo good either) around and that seems to me to be the biggest problem of the blossom-metagame as answers for that one card are just not reseanable to be played main.
You're very humble about your success. So basically: "Last week I played the top combo deck. But this week I'm playing my own build of Fish because I actually want to play Magic and see some decks, not just win for free." hehehe.
Your round 4 game was awesome! So was your top 8. I know nothing about the format so I have nothing to contribute.
so i think the deck is well built and has a way to get over on most of the decks youll see. as far as meddling mage. against me you named standstill twice when you were ahead. a better spell would have been stp. the sb looks good except for disenchant.
you maye wanna make a lil more hate for dredge or affinaty in your board.
just my humble opoinion.
and good job on top 8
and Esper Charm. Don't forget that one!
The main problem with all the mono W builds is they almost always end up as weaker Naya decks. They almost never -need- the 3rd color until turn 5 and most builds now run Druid of the Anima anyway (which nobody except Jund can afford to spend removal on sadly). I mean at least your smart enough to run quads of every really good card (elsie, angel & sigil), so you've definitely got a 1-up on the average ABC player. Then again most people still like Wooly Thoctar... sooo...
Anyway, I'd consider Angelsong in the board. It tends to blow people out in the mirror and the same with most Naya opponents. I know some of this may sound sort of weird, because I used to agree with people on the whole consistent mana versus extra power thing, but getting access to multiple Planeswalkers or some card advantage donk is just too good in this format. I'm all for variety though and I totally agree about the easy money aspect. I've made T8 of 5 of the daily events over the past month or so despite only playing in 1-2 aweek, due to work, with like 4 different decks.
If you want to see an interesting variant on the normal WW list (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/events.aspx?x=mtg/daily/decks/mol121590), I played B/W with great success and had 0 mana problems with the deck. Just happened to get screwed by some truly insane topdecking in t8. GL with the deck.
The main problem with all the mono W builds is they almost always end up as weaker Naya decks. They almost never -need- the 3rd color until turn 5 and most builds now run Druid of the Anima anyway (which nobody except Jund can afford to spend removal on sadly). I mean at least your smart enough to run quads of every really good card (elsie, angel & sigil), so you've definitely got a 1-up on the average ABC player. Then again most people still like Wooly Thoctar... sooo...
Anyway, I'd consider Angelsong in the board. It tends to blow people out in the mirror and the same with most Naya opponents. I know some of this may sound sort of weird, because I used to agree with people on the whole consistent mana versus extra power thing, but getting access to multiple Planeswalkers or some card advantage donk is just too good in this format. I'm all for variety though and I totally agree about the easy money aspect. I've made T8 of 5 of the daily events over the past month or so despite only playing in 1-2 aweek, due to work, with like 4 different decks.
If you want to see an interesting variant on the normal WW list (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/events.aspx?x=mtg/daily/decks/mol1...), I played B/W with great success and had 0 mana problems with the deck. Just happened to get screwed by some truly insane topdecking in t8. GL with the deck.
oh, like oblivion ring and firespout...yeah there really dead in blossomless matchups
If red hates blue so much, then why is it so much fun to Clone a Shivan Dragon?
I laughed pretty hard. This should be the flavor text on something! It kind of sounds like flavor text. But on what though? I could imagine the Goblin Flectomancer saying that, maybe. ... Oops. Sorry.
I'm waiting until they restrict Necropotence before I buy mine. If it's not broken in the current format then it will be after a few more sets.
That threshold lost has 62 cards. Typo or indexicive deckbuiling?
That Threshold list has 62 cards. Typo, or indecisive deckbuilding?
Oh i tottaly forgot!
consultation is so bad. i hate playing it but its so powerful. was really hoping for it to get restricted.
Nice article. I like that you tried out necro and even based it off my pe list. Your absolutly right about daze. But i think your crazy to play petal over mox. Yes there is the card disadvantage but its permanent mana, and in a format with stifles and wastelands your meger 13 land count wont cut the mustard on a slow draw or one in which they countered your turn 1/ turn 2 necro. They are a nice plus for stalker though but i feel that over all mox is more important then petal.
at 13 mana dont be surprised if you find yourself wanting an extra land or 4th ponder, especially after you have to mullagain great hands that are manaless. the vamp will prolly makes its way out as if your like me youd rather draw 17-18 cards turn 1/2 not 14-16.
and im trying out smother as well.
Actually, tokens do trigger Grave Pact according to the rules. They go to the graveyard as normal, and then since they're not in play, cease to exist as a state-based effect.
But that means they still trigger "when... put into a graveyard" triggers.
Tokens DO hit the graveyard; they are removed from the game after they hit the graveyard as a state-based effect, but since they are distroyed, they do in fact activate "into graveyard from play" triggers. The war-pride tokens are removed by the Nacatl's effect at end of turn, but sacrificing them or destroying them will activate Grave-pact, ect.
I thought I was the one who said that... If I have a brainstorm/ponder and a consultation, and I don't need Necro RIGHT NOW, I'll play the draw spell.
Necro'ing for 18 and not getting any soul spikes is the other way that deck can make you lose. And you ran into both in the same match... ouch.
Random anecdote: I once played consultation for necro early on against a dredge deck, and lost all my library but 16 cards. Among the cards removed were 2 of my 4 soul spikes and all 3 of my tendrils.
I necro'd for the remaining 16, played the other two spikes, and left myself with 2 Force of Will, 3 Daze, my second land, and a Tombstalker.
My opponent had a horrible draw, and I won with stalker beats.
On a more general note, I liked the article.
I play casual, so don't expect any of this to work in a tournament or anything, but I enjoy running a Raksha Golden Cub(with lightning greaves and a Shikari out), and/or a good ol' fashioned Coat of Arms, so each Nacatl is it's own destructive force. Predatory Focus is also game-breaking, since you'd need 6 mana for the cats anyway. Again, these are too mana-heavy for any super-competative play, but I have run toe-to-toe against many good decks; and for something as simple as a Cat deck, most of my friends fear it
RG War-Pride can also use an anger in the grave and relentless assault; mana echos and skyshroud elf can make this go infinite; and goblin bombardment makes sure you get a little extra use out of the tokens. Sorry, I just like my old cards.