Good points all around: Vindicate and terminate were two other cards that did hit Zoo. I tend to forget that.
The reason for Maniac as the deck is currently conceived is to beat the combo decks (12 2+/xs one-drops) along with helping beat Blood Moon effects. Figure is fine in this slot, but the usually tight races mean a lot of the time you don't have time to pump him even once. If you run Lions or Isamaru or Squire, you're opening yourself up to the Moon again. Bad times.
Fanatic is fine when you want to beat elves, but they don't like Maniacs very early either. In talking with a friend on MTGO, he pointed out that my list is some-what slighish, rather than Zooish, in that I'm just trying to burn the opponent out at the end.
I never have issues with Vortex, due to the high 1-drop count, as I mentioned in the article. The Bant-focused Zoo decks perform pretty meh in general, so I'd skip them.
I'm up past 20 wins in a row as Burn, and honestly, the only TOUGH matchup for this build is Elves (and if you see them coming, switch to Fanatics, as I said), and some of the DEDICATED board control decks, packing EExplosives AND Thread AND shackles AND smother.
Saying it's one of the worst you've ever seen then asking how it's good against matchups I've already explained makes you look sort of silly.
Personally I thought this article and its contents were well-described and well thought out. I'm constantly amazed at how negatively people react to a different idea on a deck. It's almost like running a basic swamp instead of a shockland is like a writer has told someone they abducted and tortured his or her mother. These articles are not about measuring our anatomy, it's about sharing ideas and love for the game. But it's constantly filled with people who think they know the "correct" way a deck should be constructed. Disagreement is great and constructive, but it doesn't need to be a smear fest. I thought every decision that is "weird" was explained pretty well. If you disagree, just state it, you don't need to denegrate a selection.
Yeah, this list is really weird. You should really be playing Mogg Fanatic over Maniac. Even if Elves is not common, it's still good against faeries. If you really insist on playing another 2 power guy, then Isamaru is better. I would also replace the bad burn spells with Tidehollow Scullers and Oblivion Rings. Oblivion Ring is a good out to Blood Moon, as you seem to be very concerned with AIR. I'm not sure why you are so worried about that deck. I rarely see it in PEs, but I guess it might be more common in the queues. O-Ring would also let you drop the basics besides 1 plains. Sculler is really awesome. Your main deck doesn't have any way to interact with combo decks. It is good against Swans and other random combo decks you might run into like storm. You should also really be playing at least 12 fetchlands and no more than 1 of each shockland.
Um that list looks like one of the worst I've ever seen. Tattermunge Maniac?? Isamaru, Mogg Fanatic, Squire, Figure all seem much better. Basic swamp with 4 ways to fetch it seems fairly loose. Not to mention 2 Temple Garden 2 Stomping Ground. Rift Bolt fits in with the Maniac as just so much weaker than spells normally run in the deck. You also can not kill an opponent who is on five with Tribal Flames. That seems like a mistake. You can change your deck to beat All in Red and burn if you want without running an awful maindeck. You deck also seems to have zero ways to kill a Threads (or Vortex from burn, never have issues with that card?).
P.S. A much bigger loss for Zoo than a pump spell is Vindicate. That card is so good in the deck and would be amazing this season.
P.P.S. Frankly if you want to beat burn, mirror, and AIR then i'd recomend the Bant focused Zoo decks which have weaker plans v Mono U and Elves!
I drew it in game 3 of the finals of the tpdc last night. I had 7 lands in play, 6 in hand, so I went to town and swarmed over him. He had wild mongrel, and played a few more creatures before I won... whereas I drew nothing. So, in that particular instance, Cenn's enlistment was superior to o-ring or thrill. I guess it could've been in the sideboard, but these sliver games can go long, and it's great to have something to break the card advantage stalemate.
I don't really know where to find lists online esp for Singleton 100. It's currently a format too "casual" for people to actively discuss it. Hopefully that changes soon.
For satanic sligh, I recommend looking at the list from old standard, mesh it with the RB blightning deck from now and putting cards that fit with the main idea like efficient small cc creatures and burn. U can use cards like sarcomancy and jackal pup and maybe even a reanimate to get creatures knocked down by discard or to resupply ur troops.
Hi, i'm trying to download MOL III. Unfortunately the download does not start...it remains at the 0,0% "estimnating times for hours... I am not using Vista....
This article took a while to actually post, so I wanted to point out that I still think Faeries is the best, despite the rise of B/W tokens and other less aggressive white decks. Yes, those are bad matchups. But Faeries is just much better against the field. It didn't put four decks in the top 8 of Worlds for nothing.
@ Klemzy: Thanks for the support!/ @ Volcanic Fallout: That actually doesn't scare me that much. Sure, it will be good. But I can't imagine either an offensive red deck that can roll with the White decks, or a controlling red deck that really scares Faeries.
I´ve faced quite a few MBC decks very hard to beat with slivers. Maindeck innocent blood and even ghastly demise is very effective considering along the usual stuff and post-board terror and nausea makes it almost impossible.
I think there are many diferent MBC builds around lately and some of them are better suited than the older ones to fight aggro. I´d metagame against aggro myself after mogg fanatic and muscle sliver as well.
~Nice Article~ There is no doubt that Faerie deck is the best. Atleast I think so. I use it as standard build and I got to say I was never so happy with any deck as with this one. It gets nice starts and then just simply controls the enemy. Im using it, I think its great and I tried over 100 for this years Standard. ~Klemzy
I don't know what you have in your sideboard, but Obsidian is an auto-win against MBC. But if you haven't lost a match, you must be playing something I don't know about.
It's funny, I consider MBC one of my best matchups. Their creatures are almost always too slow against slivers, and if you can stop the rats (you have a few ways) and the corrupts et all, you can beat them. I have yet to lose a match vs MBC, and I don't pack obsidians. Indeed, I don't usually side against them.
I like Elvish fury and sprout swarm better than Enlistment, though I can see in a discard-heavy environment why enlistment seems nice.
There sure is a lot of information in this block of text.
I have to agree with Blade in that perhaps it would read better if the deck lists were put into a supplementary article. Or perhaps shorten it down by a third (I was starting to haze over around Sea Stompy - gonna have to re-read at a later time so I don't miss anything).
I wrote about this in the previous article and I knew that a lot of people would disagree with the selection, but it has worked wonders for me.
In general, it gives the deck some hope of a long game against control elements. In my build (fast, Temporal instead of O-Ring) you never want more than four lands. Yet it's bound to happen. Enlistment turns them into two more creatures to worry about.
The benefits come mainly against MUC and MBC. It's a great discard outlet for Ravenous Rats, etc. Once they have you in top-deck mode, your lands are never dead outs. Blue rarely wants to counter it and even if they do it eats up another spell.
It also works really well against Burn if they are in topdeck mode and have fizzled all your slivers. Usually at that point, their life total is low and they can't draw two burn spells a turn.
That said, you never want to draw more than one. Hence, one copy and none extra in the sideboard. I realize most players would rather throw in another Thrill, but most of the times in Game 1, I never need more than one Thrill. Enlistment helps me get there if the opponent manages to stabilize.
Why would you run Cenn's Enlistment as a singleton copy in the maindeck? What matchups could possibly benefit from that one single card over another copy of Thrill of the Hunt or redundant additions of Oblivion Ring to support your Temporal Isolations? If you were going to run Enlistment (which I would not do), I would at least have more copies of it and have it moved to the sideboard.
Good points all around: Vindicate and terminate were two other cards that did hit Zoo. I tend to forget that.
The reason for Maniac as the deck is currently conceived is to beat the combo decks (12 2+/xs one-drops) along with helping beat Blood Moon effects. Figure is fine in this slot, but the usually tight races mean a lot of the time you don't have time to pump him even once. If you run Lions or Isamaru or Squire, you're opening yourself up to the Moon again. Bad times.
Fanatic is fine when you want to beat elves, but they don't like Maniacs very early either. In talking with a friend on MTGO, he pointed out that my list is some-what slighish, rather than Zooish, in that I'm just trying to burn the opponent out at the end.
I never have issues with Vortex, due to the high 1-drop count, as I mentioned in the article. The Bant-focused Zoo decks perform pretty meh in general, so I'd skip them.
I'm up past 20 wins in a row as Burn, and honestly, the only TOUGH matchup for this build is Elves (and if you see them coming, switch to Fanatics, as I said), and some of the DEDICATED board control decks, packing EExplosives AND Thread AND shackles AND smother.
Saying it's one of the worst you've ever seen then asking how it's good against matchups I've already explained makes you look sort of silly.
Hey hey! What do you know?
Personally I thought this article and its contents were well-described and well thought out. I'm constantly amazed at how negatively people react to a different idea on a deck. It's almost like running a basic swamp instead of a shockland is like a writer has told someone they abducted and tortured his or her mother. These articles are not about measuring our anatomy, it's about sharing ideas and love for the game. But it's constantly filled with people who think they know the "correct" way a deck should be constructed. Disagreement is great and constructive, but it doesn't need to be a smear fest. I thought every decision that is "weird" was explained pretty well. If you disagree, just state it, you don't need to denegrate a selection.
Enjoyed the article!
Yeah, this list is really weird. You should really be playing Mogg Fanatic over Maniac. Even if Elves is not common, it's still good against faeries. If you really insist on playing another 2 power guy, then Isamaru is better. I would also replace the bad burn spells with Tidehollow Scullers and Oblivion Rings. Oblivion Ring is a good out to Blood Moon, as you seem to be very concerned with AIR. I'm not sure why you are so worried about that deck. I rarely see it in PEs, but I guess it might be more common in the queues. O-Ring would also let you drop the basics besides 1 plains. Sculler is really awesome. Your main deck doesn't have any way to interact with combo decks. It is good against Swans and other random combo decks you might run into like storm. You should also really be playing at least 12 fetchlands and no more than 1 of each shockland.
Um that list looks like one of the worst I've ever seen. Tattermunge Maniac?? Isamaru, Mogg Fanatic, Squire, Figure all seem much better. Basic swamp with 4 ways to fetch it seems fairly loose. Not to mention 2 Temple Garden 2 Stomping Ground. Rift Bolt fits in with the Maniac as just so much weaker than spells normally run in the deck. You also can not kill an opponent who is on five with Tribal Flames. That seems like a mistake. You can change your deck to beat All in Red and burn if you want without running an awful maindeck. You deck also seems to have zero ways to kill a Threads (or Vortex from burn, never have issues with that card?).
P.S. A much bigger loss for Zoo than a pump spell is Vindicate. That card is so good in the deck and would be amazing this season.
P.P.S. Frankly if you want to beat burn, mirror, and AIR then i'd recomend the Bant focused Zoo decks which have weaker plans v Mono U and Elves!
what the crazy look, or the shirt and tie with a flannel jacket?
I drew it in game 3 of the finals of the tpdc last night. I had 7 lands in play, 6 in hand, so I went to town and swarmed over him. He had wild mongrel, and played a few more creatures before I won... whereas I drew nothing. So, in that particular instance, Cenn's enlistment was superior to o-ring or thrill. I guess it could've been in the sideboard, but these sliver games can go long, and it's great to have something to break the card advantage stalemate.
Something looks seriosly wrong with that guy in the picture...
I don't really know where to find lists online esp for Singleton 100. It's currently a format too "casual" for people to actively discuss it. Hopefully that changes soon.
Here are the "best alternatives" I could find:
http://www.magicplayer.org/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=2
http://www.magicplayer.org/forum/index.php?board=6.0
For satanic sligh, I recommend looking at the list from old standard, mesh it with the RB blightning deck from now and putting cards that fit with the main idea like efficient small cc creatures and burn. U can use cards like sarcomancy and jackal pup and maybe even a reanimate to get creatures knocked down by discard or to resupply ur troops.
Hi, i'm trying to download MOL III. Unfortunately the download does not start...it remains at the 0,0% "estimnating times for hours... I am not using Vista....
Can anybody help?
I love how popular faeries was and still is, makes all the easier for me to expect and beat them.
This article took a while to actually post, so I wanted to point out that I still think Faeries is the best, despite the rise of B/W tokens and other less aggressive white decks. Yes, those are bad matchups. But Faeries is just much better against the field. It didn't put four decks in the top 8 of Worlds for nothing.
@ Klemzy: Thanks for the support!/
@ Volcanic Fallout: That actually doesn't scare me that much. Sure, it will be good. But I can't imagine either an offensive red deck that can roll with the White decks, or a controlling red deck that really scares Faeries.
Not was, will be in Feb.
Volcanic Fallout
Volcanic Fallout deals 2 damage to each creature and each player.
Plus there was an uncounterable answer from Green as well but could not find it.
I´ve faced quite a few MBC decks very hard to beat with slivers. Maindeck innocent blood and even ghastly demise is very effective considering along the usual stuff and post-board terror and nausea makes it almost impossible.
I think there are many diferent MBC builds around lately and some of them are better suited than the older ones to fight aggro. I´d metagame against aggro myself after mogg fanatic and muscle sliver as well.
-- icarodx
~Nice Article~
There is no doubt that Faerie deck is the best. Atleast I think so. I use it as standard build and I got to say I was never so happy with any deck as with this one. It gets nice starts and then just simply controls the enemy. Im using it, I think its great and I tried over 100 for this years Standard.
~Klemzy
lovelovelovelove
This Part A is longer than some writers' entire articles. Thanks for all the time spent writing it.
I don't know what you have in your sideboard, but Obsidian is an auto-win against MBC. But if you haven't lost a match, you must be playing something I don't know about.
Hold shift plus enter to do a single line instead of double. :)
It's funny, I consider MBC one of my best matchups. Their creatures are almost always too slow against slivers, and if you can stop the rats (you have a few ways) and the corrupts et all, you can beat them. I have yet to lose a match vs MBC, and I don't pack obsidians. Indeed, I don't usually side against them.
I like Elvish fury and sprout swarm better than Enlistment, though I can see in a discard-heavy environment why enlistment seems nice.
There sure is a lot of information in this block of text.
I have to agree with Blade in that perhaps it would read better if the deck lists were put into a supplementary article. Or perhaps shorten it down by a third (I was starting to haze over around Sea Stompy - gonna have to re-read at a later time so I don't miss anything).
I wrote about this in the previous article and I knew that a lot of people would disagree with the selection, but it has worked wonders for me.
In general, it gives the deck some hope of a long game against control elements. In my build (fast, Temporal instead of O-Ring) you never want more than four lands. Yet it's bound to happen. Enlistment turns them into two more creatures to worry about.
The benefits come mainly against MUC and MBC. It's a great discard outlet for Ravenous Rats, etc. Once they have you in top-deck mode, your lands are never dead outs. Blue rarely wants to counter it and even if they do it eats up another spell.
It also works really well against Burn if they are in topdeck mode and have fizzled all your slivers. Usually at that point, their life total is low and they can't draw two burn spells a turn.
That said, you never want to draw more than one. Hence, one copy and none extra in the sideboard. I realize most players would rather throw in another Thrill, but most of the times in Game 1, I never need more than one Thrill. Enlistment helps me get there if the opponent manages to stabilize.
Is there a good place to look for decklists of some of the archetypes not included in the articles? RB Santanic Sligh specifically?
Why would you run Cenn's Enlistment as a singleton copy in the maindeck? What matchups could possibly benefit from that one single card over another copy of Thrill of the Hunt or redundant additions of Oblivion Ring to support your Temporal Isolations? If you were going to run Enlistment (which I would not do), I would at least have more copies of it and have it moved to the sideboard.
-- Sensei