I'm not a fan of Goblin Assault. I've tried it twice in two separate drafts. It's a horrible topdeck late in the game when you need an answer. Any other creature is usually better. And I'm just generally not even happy playing it on turn 3, which is the best possible scenario.
Turn 3: "Goblin Assault, go."
Them: "Woolly Thoctar, gg?"
I guess I feel like spending your third turn on an enchantment that may or may not hit for 1 damage on turn 4 is too big of a tempo loss for this format.
Now, obviously the card worked out for you. But a Hissing Iguanar can do just as much damage on its own, can block, and it can swing for 3 if their side of the board is clear.
The only thing I'd add here is that Quietus Spike is *situationally* a lot better than I think you give it credit for.
It's certainly not a first-pick or anything, but if you're in a color that has a reasonable chance of picking up a pinger or a strong evasion creature down the road, it's a very nasty combo card.
I've been blown out of a couple of drafts, with very reasonable decks that just keeled over to a deathtouch activated pinger (and if that pinger happens to get +1/+1 for every other guy she kills, so much the better...)
Yeah the poorly implemented chat system has really given a beating to our clan. I guess we just need to get over it and start using the clan chat again. I'll start spreading the word. /join puremtgo :)
Thanks guys, it's great to be back, even though it made me sad to see that my whole clan is dead. I mean, I had great time playing Magic with those guys and now none of them are active anymore and I don't have anyone to talk to. Maybe Heath will think of something to bring back the whole PUREMTGO spirit.
And Hammy, I may have missed a lot during my absence but never ever once missed your "State of the Program"s. Great job!
First of all, welcome home! It's nice to have you back. :)
Second of all, a very solid article with lots of things to think about and look at.
Third, Shards is going like gang-busters. The amount of people playing lately is about 15 to 20 percent higher than the pre-Shards numbers, and it's stayed fairly consistent.
Fourth, I agree 100% about coming back to Magic. I haven't seen too many people stay completely away once they've been bitten by the Magic bug. Sure, you may wander for a while, but that itch for Magic is always there. I've played numerous other games as well. And while diverting and entertaining... they're not Magic.
It's good to have you writing for the good guys again! :D
Time Spiral - Color matters. They're just different colors this year.
Shadowmoor - Back to the old color pie! Now build a 4-color deck.
SoA - Color matters. But whereas WGB used to buy you a new Doran, now 1WGB buys you a 4/4 flier.
I only play in the casual room so I don't run into 5-color control very often. But I can imagine how the messed up the color pie would feel when all of your lands tap for mana of any color. But what I can notice in the casual room is that Wizards is just throwing around colored mana symbols because the current mana base is so messed up. What are the red mana symbols in Cruel Ultimatium or Sedraxis Specter for? If those cards didn't cost 8 and 3 colorless mana then people would notice. It's like reverse bleeding or something.
Mono-green mana ramp is my favorite strategy of all time. :) I'm the guy with the Gaea's Cradle + Rofellos anti-synergy that spg was talking about. I love tapping things for GGGGGG. My strategy against Wrath (in current version 74 of the deck) is 4x Weatherseed Treefolk and 4x Rancor. But since those aren't options online, and I own the Garruks, I'll give Primalcrux a try.
Hi Whiffy - Thanks for clarifying I did not know if you want the Gush in the Necro deck to be public or remain of the radar thats why I did not expand on my comment. Thanks for filling the readers in and I look forward to the next Lunchbox.
I have to agree and wonder...what really happened to mono colored decks? I stopped playing Magic at 4th and started again @ Shadowmoor. I have to admit...the game has changed quite a bit. I play online now and I'm getting killed by 5 color control decks that just counter everything and have a couple of weenies to sneak in damage. I'm having a hard time competing with these decks and the tournaments are looking less and less interesting/fun. Most of the cards needed to compete are pretty expensive and well...buying them would just give me a deck that's just like everyone elses! I miss the days of playing mono vs. mono, where FON, Serra, Sengir etc were the dominating cards. I loved my mono red...whipping out a Keldon Warlord and Fire Elemental (favorite Art card of all time...Melissa i love you!) and a couple of lightning bolts...god that was awesome. I often get mauled by Cryptic...counterspell and tap all my creatures!!!WTH? I have to say though...i do like the Tribes that have emerged. The Elves, Kithkin, Merfolk, Treefolk, Elemental etc. are always fun to play against...providing you know you're playing a tribe. Some people get unique too...i played a guy in casual..he was playing an Illusion deck, which I found very original!
Thanks for the kind words man, and thanks for the suggestions. I will definitely do my best to play a few games with the budget versions of these decks moving forward.
Definitely send me an e-mail with your MTGO information or post it here - I'd love to play sometime!
in a few days you will be able to see all the lists, but the deck uth alludes too is mine that used 2x gush and went 8-0 in matches, 16-3 in games, is the best deck in the format(ie i played against 4 decks that all hate on it) and was not affected by a very well deserved restriction of 1 or 2 of the most offensive spells in classic.
I have posted comments on most of your articles about how awesome they are (as anonymous), and this one continues the trend. I really appreciate how you offer the budgetized decks at the end of your article. I imagine that it attracts casual players like me. Although I own most of the cards for the high dollar version, I still like to use the cheapo stuff for casual fun with mtgo friends.A suggestion you may consider as you progress with your writing…It would be neat to see an analysis of how well your deck performs once it has been budgetized. I would be willing to bet that in some instances the cheaper deck(s) you build will perform better, if for no other reason than pure luck.I can’t wait to see what your next article brings.If you want to play some casual games sometime, let me know….Mike
Thank you for your supportive words. The list does appear a little unpolished but I think it is just a case of too many good cards not enough slots. Prolepsis9 is a skilled pilot and also made top 8 with thelist the previous week so now 4 in total. If it aint broke dont fix it I guess. :P I have put the deck together online so after some testin ill report back further. Thanks again. UTH
I was wondering if the TarmoStill list you included is considered optimal. I'm not talking just about the dual lands, but the choice of only 2 Brainstorm and 3 StP struck me as odd. I personally never go with less than 4 Brainstorms if i'm playing blue and have fetchlands to make them better.
Although Prolepsis9 has already three top 8 so he clearly knows what works best for him.
I'm very much tempted to say you two are both approaching the matchup incorrectly. You don't burn every card, the trick is to find the correct balance.
Post sideboard, with the addition of the sideboard hate cards, it makes the matchup even better due to the ability to cut off more heads.
I'd hate to cite Classic as an example, but this is exactly why some people do far worse in Classic than others with the Red deck. Simply put, this deck relies on not wasting all your burn on creatures, but rather using enough while dealing damage to beat the Elves deck. Obviously, if you're going to waste all your burn on every elf that comes into play, you're doing something wrong.
That said, wasting all your burn on someone's face is also problematic in the elves matchup.
I know that there was at least one deck running gush in the Top8 of the saturday event. I will be covering the next article shortly after Christmas. Lets see what tempest can do.
NB There was no changes to the Classic Banned Restricted list 1st December.
I have tried it and the elves simply develop way too fast. I have gotten them down to 4 life and all it gained me was an empty hand and an opponent who is comboing out on me. I dont think its the answer, marauders where nice but if they stuck around one more turn i coulda won more match ups. Think I tested 4-5 times against elves, I think i won one match.
My experience facing zoo has certainly been in line with the comments above in the past month. As an opponent, what used to be a good matchup for me 2 months ago has become quite difficult. My impression is that the Nacatl has shortened the clock a whole lot. I'm also rather unfond of the no-stick version.
I'd love to know about Javasci playing "Miss America" - makes me wonder if he fielded that deck on a bet with a buddy. I don't deny tha Angel's good, but I wouldn't have thunk she was classic-level 4-drop material.
Andrew, thanks for another solid and timely article. This series has definitely earned a place on my "must-read" list.
I've seen no evidence that burn has a good elf matchup. Sure you shoot a bunch of guys but then you can't kill them. Not to mention cards like Elvish Visionary and Glimpse of Nature drawing them a ton of elves. Oh and access to extra Pendelhavens post SB can't help the red deck... The burn deck rellies on using its burn to kill the opponent, having to use lots of burn on 1/1s is not the way for the deck to win.
I'd be pretty shocked to see the burn deck do well at worlds.
I'm not a fan of Goblin Assault. I've tried it twice in two separate drafts. It's a horrible topdeck late in the game when you need an answer. Any other creature is usually better. And I'm just generally not even happy playing it on turn 3, which is the best possible scenario.
Turn 3: "Goblin Assault, go."
Them: "Woolly Thoctar, gg?"
I guess I feel like spending your third turn on an enchantment that may or may not hit for 1 damage on turn 4 is too big of a tempo loss for this format.
Now, obviously the card worked out for you. But a Hissing Iguanar can do just as much damage on its own, can block, and it can swing for 3 if their side of the board is clear.
Grats on the win!
Please...
The other effect can be disastrous used with an unearthed or hastened creature.
The only thing I'd add here is that Quietus Spike is *situationally* a lot better than I think you give it credit for.
It's certainly not a first-pick or anything, but if you're in a color that has a reasonable chance of picking up a pinger or a strong evasion creature down the road, it's a very nasty combo card.
I've been blown out of a couple of drafts, with very reasonable decks that just keeled over to a deathtouch activated pinger (and if that pinger happens to get +1/+1 for every other guy she kills, so much the better...)
Yeah the poorly implemented chat system has really given a beating to our clan. I guess we just need to get over it and start using the clan chat again. I'll start spreading the word. /join puremtgo :)
Thanks guys, it's great to be back, even though it made me sad to see that my whole clan is dead. I mean, I had great time playing Magic with those guys and now none of them are active anymore and I don't have anyone to talk to. Maybe Heath will think of something to bring back the whole PUREMTGO spirit.
And Hammy, I may have missed a lot during my absence but never ever once missed your "State of the Program"s. Great job!
It's great to have you back Erman. Glad you finally quit playing all those silly kid games :) j/k.
First of all, welcome home! It's nice to have you back. :)
Second of all, a very solid article with lots of things to think about and look at.
Third, Shards is going like gang-busters. The amount of people playing lately is about 15 to 20 percent higher than the pre-Shards numbers, and it's stayed fairly consistent.
Fourth, I agree 100% about coming back to Magic. I haven't seen too many people stay completely away once they've been bitten by the Magic bug. Sure, you may wander for a while, but that itch for Magic is always there. I've played numerous other games as well. And while diverting and entertaining... they're not Magic.
It's good to have you writing for the good guys again! :D
Good call - I never even knew that Drove of Elves existed... It's definitely a solid option for a strategy like this.
I can't begin to say how fun a card Drove is...and half shroud goes a long way
Time Spiral - Color matters. They're just different colors this year.
Shadowmoor - Back to the old color pie! Now build a 4-color deck.
SoA - Color matters. But whereas WGB used to buy you a new Doran, now 1WGB buys you a 4/4 flier.
I only play in the casual room so I don't run into 5-color control very often. But I can imagine how the messed up the color pie would feel when all of your lands tap for mana of any color. But what I can notice in the casual room is that Wizards is just throwing around colored mana symbols because the current mana base is so messed up. What are the red mana symbols in Cruel Ultimatium or Sedraxis Specter for? If those cards didn't cost 8 and 3 colorless mana then people would notice. It's like reverse bleeding or something.
Mono-green mana ramp is my favorite strategy of all time. :) I'm the guy with the Gaea's Cradle + Rofellos anti-synergy that spg was talking about. I love tapping things for GGGGGG. My strategy against Wrath (in current version 74 of the deck) is 4x Weatherseed Treefolk and 4x Rancor. But since those aren't options online, and I own the Garruks, I'll give Primalcrux a try.
Hi Whiffy - Thanks for clarifying I did not know if you want the Gush in the Necro deck to be public or remain of the radar thats why I did not expand on my comment. Thanks for filling the readers in and I look forward to the next Lunchbox.
I have to agree and wonder...what really happened to mono colored decks? I stopped playing Magic at 4th and started again @ Shadowmoor. I have to admit...the game has changed quite a bit. I play online now and I'm getting killed by 5 color control decks that just counter everything and have a couple of weenies to sneak in damage. I'm having a hard time competing with these decks and the tournaments are looking less and less interesting/fun. Most of the cards needed to compete are pretty expensive and well...buying them would just give me a deck that's just like everyone elses! I miss the days of playing mono vs. mono, where FON, Serra, Sengir etc were the dominating cards. I loved my mono red...whipping out a Keldon Warlord and Fire Elemental (favorite Art card of all time...Melissa i love you!) and a couple of lightning bolts...god that was awesome. I often get mauled by Cryptic...counterspell and tap all my creatures!!!WTH? I have to say though...i do like the Tribes that have emerged. The Elves, Kithkin, Merfolk, Treefolk, Elemental etc. are always fun to play against...providing you know you're playing a tribe. Some people get unique too...i played a guy in casual..he was playing an Illusion deck, which I found very original!
Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the kind words man, and thanks for the suggestions. I will definitely do my best to play a few games with the budget versions of these decks moving forward.
Definitely send me an e-mail with your MTGO information or post it here - I'd love to play sometime!
in a few days you will be able to see all the lists, but the deck uth alludes too is mine that used 2x gush and went 8-0 in matches, 16-3 in games, is the best deck in the format(ie i played against 4 decks that all hate on it) and was not affected by a very well deserved restriction of 1 or 2 of the most offensive spells in classic.
I have posted comments on most of your articles about how awesome they are (as anonymous), and this one continues the trend. I really appreciate how you offer the budgetized decks at the end of your article. I imagine that it attracts casual players like me. Although I own most of the cards for the high dollar version, I still like to use the cheapo stuff for casual fun with mtgo friends.A suggestion you may consider as you progress with your writing…It would be neat to see an analysis of how well your deck performs once it has been budgetized. I would be willing to bet that in some instances the cheaper deck(s) you build will perform better, if for no other reason than pure luck.I can’t wait to see what your next article brings. If you want to play some casual games sometime, let me know….Mike
Hi Harold,
Thank you for your supportive words. The list does appear a little unpolished but I think it is just a case of too many good cards not enough slots. Prolepsis9 is a skilled pilot and also made top 8 with thelist the previous week so now 4 in total. If it aint broke dont fix it I guess. :P
I have put the deck together online so after some testin ill report back further.
Thanks again. UTH
That said, if you guys are interested, message me up either here or CQ and I'll be happy to talk about it
Another very interesting article, thanks!
I was wondering if the TarmoStill list you included is considered optimal. I'm not talking just about the dual lands, but the choice of only 2 Brainstorm and 3 StP struck me as odd. I personally never go with less than 4 Brainstorms if i'm playing blue and have fetchlands to make them better.
Although Prolepsis9 has already three top 8 so he clearly knows what works best for him.
Cheers
I'm very much tempted to say you two are both approaching the matchup incorrectly. You don't burn every card, the trick is to find the correct balance.
Post sideboard, with the addition of the sideboard hate cards, it makes the matchup even better due to the ability to cut off more heads.
I'd hate to cite Classic as an example, but this is exactly why some people do far worse in Classic than others with the Red deck. Simply put, this deck relies on not wasting all your burn on creatures, but rather using enough while dealing damage to beat the Elves deck. Obviously, if you're going to waste all your burn on every elf that comes into play, you're doing something wrong.
That said, wasting all your burn on someone's face is also problematic in the elves matchup.
I know that there was at least one deck running gush in the Top8 of the saturday event. I will be covering the next article shortly after Christmas. Lets see what tempest can do.
NB There was no changes to the Classic Banned Restricted list 1st December.
I played in one event this weekend and look forward to your coverage. Rather curious how many deck took advantage of the addition of gush and daze.
I have tried it and the elves simply develop way too fast. I have gotten them down to 4 life and all it gained me was an empty hand and an opponent who is comboing out on me. I dont think its the answer, marauders where nice but if they stuck around one more turn i coulda won more match ups. Think I tested 4-5 times against elves, I think i won one match.
My experience facing zoo has certainly been in line with the comments above in the past month. As an opponent, what used to be a good matchup for me 2 months ago has become quite difficult. My impression is that the Nacatl has shortened the clock a whole lot. I'm also rather unfond of the no-stick version.
I'd love to know about Javasci playing "Miss America" - makes me wonder if he fielded that deck on a bet with a buddy. I don't deny tha Angel's good, but I wouldn't have thunk she was classic-level 4-drop material.
Andrew, thanks for another solid and timely article. This series has definitely earned a place on my "must-read" list.
I've seen no evidence that burn has a good elf matchup. Sure you shoot a bunch of guys but then you can't kill them. Not to mention cards like Elvish Visionary and Glimpse of Nature drawing them a ton of elves. Oh and access to extra Pendelhavens post SB can't help the red deck... The burn deck rellies on using its burn to kill the opponent, having to use lots of burn on 1/1s is not the way for the deck to win.
I'd be pretty shocked to see the burn deck do well at worlds.